KJ,
I had to work all night tonight. Thanks for the response. That's basically what I would have said, but you most likely said it better than I would have. LOL.
Those questions don't have simplistic answers.
All I can say is that I am lucky to live in a country where we can openly discuss these things, and even have a beer doing so.
37 Troops Die on Deadliest Day in Iraq
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Gordon Gekko
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37 Troops Die on Deadliest Day in Iraq
KJ and UFS:
So it doesn't get lost in the fine posts we all make, can you both list the top 3 reasons (if there are) in your opinion why we went to war with Iraq? maybe i'm missing something, and i'd like to better understand. thanks.
So it doesn't get lost in the fine posts we all make, can you both list the top 3 reasons (if there are) in your opinion why we went to war with Iraq? maybe i'm missing something, and i'd like to better understand. thanks.
37 Troops Die on Deadliest Day in Iraq
[ January 29, 2005, 10:33 PM: Message edited by: KJ Duke ]
37 Troops Die on Deadliest Day in Iraq
Originally posted by UFS:
[qb] KJ,
I had to work all night tonight. Thanks for the response. That's basically what I would have said, but you most likely said it better than I would have. LOL.
Those questions don't have simplistic answers.
All I can say is that I am lucky to live in a country where we can openly discuss these things, and even have a beer doing so. UFS - Thx John. Likewise, all excellent posts from you on this thread.
Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:
KJ and UFS:
So it doesn't get lost in the fine posts we all make, can you both list the top 3 reasons (if there are) in your opinion why we went to war with Iraq? maybe i'm missing something, and i'd like to better understand. thanks. In my opinion GG:
1. To eliminate the risk of a dictator who: (1) had proven to be the most aggressive threat in the region; (2) had denounced and threatened the US in the past; (3) was perceived to be the most willing and motivated to support an attack on the US; (4) had in the past shown no regard for the life of innocent people; and (5) had the resources to either build, obtain or fund WMD or any other weapons to carry out an attack.
2. To try to stop or slow an existing and/or major potential future breeding ground/ safe haven for terrorism; and to "send a message" in this regard to other terrorist-friendly states that we will in fact mount an ofensive attack.
3. To eliminate a dictator who had slaughtered hundreds of thousands, if not a million, of his own people, and continued to be a threat to the region and thereby also a threat to the long-term economic interests of the US.
[ January 29, 2005, 10:34 PM: Message edited by: KJ Duke ]
[qb] KJ,
I had to work all night tonight. Thanks for the response. That's basically what I would have said, but you most likely said it better than I would have. LOL.
Those questions don't have simplistic answers.
All I can say is that I am lucky to live in a country where we can openly discuss these things, and even have a beer doing so. UFS - Thx John. Likewise, all excellent posts from you on this thread.
Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:
KJ and UFS:
So it doesn't get lost in the fine posts we all make, can you both list the top 3 reasons (if there are) in your opinion why we went to war with Iraq? maybe i'm missing something, and i'd like to better understand. thanks. In my opinion GG:
1. To eliminate the risk of a dictator who: (1) had proven to be the most aggressive threat in the region; (2) had denounced and threatened the US in the past; (3) was perceived to be the most willing and motivated to support an attack on the US; (4) had in the past shown no regard for the life of innocent people; and (5) had the resources to either build, obtain or fund WMD or any other weapons to carry out an attack.
2. To try to stop or slow an existing and/or major potential future breeding ground/ safe haven for terrorism; and to "send a message" in this regard to other terrorist-friendly states that we will in fact mount an ofensive attack.
3. To eliminate a dictator who had slaughtered hundreds of thousands, if not a million, of his own people, and continued to be a threat to the region and thereby also a threat to the long-term economic interests of the US.
[ January 29, 2005, 10:34 PM: Message edited by: KJ Duke ]
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Bull Pen Pugs
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37 Troops Die on Deadliest Day in Iraq
Well, Seeing I spent 11 yrs in military and have been deployed to Gulf region on 3 seperate occassions and been in Desert Storm ans Shield, Ill educate a few people.
1. In 91 when we were there and had to stop attacking Iraqi army, when we liberated Kuwait and had Iraqis on the run, we knew we would be bak 10 yrs later. Well, we were. However, Bush I promised we would stop after Kuwait was liberated, so we did.
2. In agreement to the surrender that Saddam agreed to, he agreed to obey to certain UN Sanctions. Well, those of us that are educated, know for a fact, he VIOLATED 17 seperate sanctions that the UN placed upon Iraqi. A slap in the face to surrenfer and NOT comply to those sanctions agreed upon, or we would have went right to Baggdah and killed him then. So its okay to just violate those 17 sanction that he agreed too when he surrendered in 91? I think not.
3. WMD. He had them. In 91, we were always ready for attakcs from him with nerve and mustard agents. He used them on his own people just yr prior and back tehn, we have great intel from spec ops and covert intel people. Now, in the 90's under Clinton, what did we cut back on? Glad you asked, Clinton cut back on the Intel field and resources that allowed us to have great HUMAN INTEL.Human intel vital to support and reaffirm what intel we get from SatIntel and Defectors from other countries to confirm. That was gone, but in conjunction with US, Britan and other countries their intel also supoorted a good 80 percent chance he had WMD.
4. Terrorism. Yes, Iraqi was linked to terrorism and this was another reason to go after him and remove Iraqi as a source of training and support for those slim ball, terroists.
5. Oil. Yes, Gulf region supports about 30 percent of all the worlds oil reserves. If the US Democrates would approve the plans to use the resources the US has available to us, we would not need to rely upon the GUlf, Venezulea and other countries for oil. Lets use what we can from our land. But oh, lets not disturb the land around those reserves. So, the men/women of the armed services of US will die for this and wether right or wrong, we knew it when we joined of our free will.
I could go on, but I won. There a some facts that are plain and simple to understand and are the truth.
1. In 91 when we were there and had to stop attacking Iraqi army, when we liberated Kuwait and had Iraqis on the run, we knew we would be bak 10 yrs later. Well, we were. However, Bush I promised we would stop after Kuwait was liberated, so we did.
2. In agreement to the surrender that Saddam agreed to, he agreed to obey to certain UN Sanctions. Well, those of us that are educated, know for a fact, he VIOLATED 17 seperate sanctions that the UN placed upon Iraqi. A slap in the face to surrenfer and NOT comply to those sanctions agreed upon, or we would have went right to Baggdah and killed him then. So its okay to just violate those 17 sanction that he agreed too when he surrendered in 91? I think not.
3. WMD. He had them. In 91, we were always ready for attakcs from him with nerve and mustard agents. He used them on his own people just yr prior and back tehn, we have great intel from spec ops and covert intel people. Now, in the 90's under Clinton, what did we cut back on? Glad you asked, Clinton cut back on the Intel field and resources that allowed us to have great HUMAN INTEL.Human intel vital to support and reaffirm what intel we get from SatIntel and Defectors from other countries to confirm. That was gone, but in conjunction with US, Britan and other countries their intel also supoorted a good 80 percent chance he had WMD.
4. Terrorism. Yes, Iraqi was linked to terrorism and this was another reason to go after him and remove Iraqi as a source of training and support for those slim ball, terroists.
5. Oil. Yes, Gulf region supports about 30 percent of all the worlds oil reserves. If the US Democrates would approve the plans to use the resources the US has available to us, we would not need to rely upon the GUlf, Venezulea and other countries for oil. Lets use what we can from our land. But oh, lets not disturb the land around those reserves. So, the men/women of the armed services of US will die for this and wether right or wrong, we knew it when we joined of our free will.
I could go on, but I won. There a some facts that are plain and simple to understand and are the truth.
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Gordon Gekko
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37 Troops Die on Deadliest Day in Iraq
Posted 3/2/2004 1:33 AM
U.N.: Iraq had no WMD after 1994
By Bill Nichols, USA TODAY
UNITED NATIONS — A report from U.N. weapons inspectors to be released today says they now believe there were no weapons of mass destruction of any significance in Iraq after 1994, according to two U.N. diplomats who have seen the document.
U.N.: Iraq had no WMD after 1994
U.N.: Iraq had no WMD after 1994
By Bill Nichols, USA TODAY
UNITED NATIONS — A report from U.N. weapons inspectors to be released today says they now believe there were no weapons of mass destruction of any significance in Iraq after 1994, according to two U.N. diplomats who have seen the document.
U.N.: Iraq had no WMD after 1994
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Gordon Gekko
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37 Troops Die on Deadliest Day in Iraq
Official: U.S. calls off search for Iraqi WMDs
Wednesday, January 12, 2005 Posted: 9:21 PM EST (0221 GMT)
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- U.S. inspectors have ended their search for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq in recent weeks, a U.S. intelligence official told CNN.
Despite intensive searches, no banned Iraqi weapons were found after the fall of Saddam Hussein's regime.
U.S. calls off search for Iraqi WMDs
Wednesday, January 12, 2005 Posted: 9:21 PM EST (0221 GMT)
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- U.S. inspectors have ended their search for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq in recent weeks, a U.S. intelligence official told CNN.
Despite intensive searches, no banned Iraqi weapons were found after the fall of Saddam Hussein's regime.
U.S. calls off search for Iraqi WMDs
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Bull Pen Pugs
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37 Troops Die on Deadliest Day in Iraq
As i mentioned, Clinton took office in 92, then wipped out the size of the military and drastically cut down our Human Intel branches and other ways we use to be able to gather intel. That hurt the US bigtime.
But, a few EU countries werent affected, but were pretty sure they had WMD. If we were wrong, we still had every right to go after Iraqi.
But, a few EU countries werent affected, but were pretty sure they had WMD. If we were wrong, we still had every right to go after Iraqi.
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Gordon Gekko
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37 Troops Die on Deadliest Day in Iraq
Originally posted by Venom:
a few EU countries werent affected, but were pretty sure they had WMD. If we were wrong, we still had every right to go after Iraqi. January 19, 2005: In an interview published Sunday with the Washington Post, President George W. Bush defended his administration against charges that the rationale for its war with Iraq had proven false, and claimed that the 2004 presidential election constituted an endorsement of his war policies by the American people.
Washington Post: In Iraq, there’s been a steady stream of surprises. We weren’t welcomed as liberators, as Vice President Cheney had talked about. We haven’t found the weapons of mass destruction as predicted. The postwar process hasn’t gone as well as some had hoped. Why hasn’t anyone been held accountable, either through firings or demotions, for what some people see as mistakes or misjudgments?
Bush: Well, we had an accountability moment, and that’s called the 2004 election. And the American people listened to different assessments made about what was taking place in Iraq, and they looked at the two candidates, and chose me, for which I’m grateful.
Gekko: Nice answer Bush. Thanks for being accountable?
There have been 1,624 coalition troop deaths, 1,453 Americans, 86 Britons, seven Bulgarians, one Dane, two Dutch, two Estonians, one Hungarian, 20 Italians, one Kazakh, one Latvian, 16 Poles, one Salvadoran, three Slovaks, 11 Spaniards, two Thai and 17 Ukrainians in the war in Iraq as of February 11, 2005.
[ February 13, 2005, 06:42 PM: Message edited by: Gordon Gekko ]
a few EU countries werent affected, but were pretty sure they had WMD. If we were wrong, we still had every right to go after Iraqi. January 19, 2005: In an interview published Sunday with the Washington Post, President George W. Bush defended his administration against charges that the rationale for its war with Iraq had proven false, and claimed that the 2004 presidential election constituted an endorsement of his war policies by the American people.
Washington Post: In Iraq, there’s been a steady stream of surprises. We weren’t welcomed as liberators, as Vice President Cheney had talked about. We haven’t found the weapons of mass destruction as predicted. The postwar process hasn’t gone as well as some had hoped. Why hasn’t anyone been held accountable, either through firings or demotions, for what some people see as mistakes or misjudgments?
Bush: Well, we had an accountability moment, and that’s called the 2004 election. And the American people listened to different assessments made about what was taking place in Iraq, and they looked at the two candidates, and chose me, for which I’m grateful.
Gekko: Nice answer Bush. Thanks for being accountable?
There have been 1,624 coalition troop deaths, 1,453 Americans, 86 Britons, seven Bulgarians, one Dane, two Dutch, two Estonians, one Hungarian, 20 Italians, one Kazakh, one Latvian, 16 Poles, one Salvadoran, three Slovaks, 11 Spaniards, two Thai and 17 Ukrainians in the war in Iraq as of February 11, 2005.
[ February 13, 2005, 06:42 PM: Message edited by: Gordon Gekko ]
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Bull Pen Pugs
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lol, Gee Geeko you actually believe everything u read? Kinda falls back on what u said, about believing what Presidents say? U need to stay consistent on ur standings bro....
Anyway, news for ya rook, all presidents lie and all people in politics lie.
Fact of life. Good bless the USA and send all the nay sayers to 3rd world coutries, so they can come back an appreciate what they have in good ole USA. If they still dont, well, they can surely stay over there, since its their free right from this free country. God Bless.....
Anyway, news for ya rook, all presidents lie and all people in politics lie.
Fact of life. Good bless the USA and send all the nay sayers to 3rd world coutries, so they can come back an appreciate what they have in good ole USA. If they still dont, well, they can surely stay over there, since its their free right from this free country. God Bless.....
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sportsbettingman
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Sometimes you make me wonder GG...
...are you out to raly the republicans? ...because you seem to stand alone with all your democratic help so silent.
The posts above and on previous pages are both well thought out...and honest. You most likely felt their words more than you led on to feel. (just my guess).
The U.S. military is voluntary.
Was there any better way of "proving without a doubt" that there were no WMD...than by finding out first hand...who are you going to trust?...and I agree...it was the selling point...not the reason....stop focusing on such a small part of the history.
In my opinion...the European world has many opinions...but fail to take action. Some say the US is animal like...I say we have more balls than any country today.
If we left the world in the hands of the liberals...we'd have been had at hello...long ago.
~Lance
[ February 13, 2005, 10:07 PM: Message edited by: sportsbettingman ]
...are you out to raly the republicans? ...because you seem to stand alone with all your democratic help so silent.
The posts above and on previous pages are both well thought out...and honest. You most likely felt their words more than you led on to feel. (just my guess).
The U.S. military is voluntary.
Was there any better way of "proving without a doubt" that there were no WMD...than by finding out first hand...who are you going to trust?...and I agree...it was the selling point...not the reason....stop focusing on such a small part of the history.
In my opinion...the European world has many opinions...but fail to take action. Some say the US is animal like...I say we have more balls than any country today.
If we left the world in the hands of the liberals...we'd have been had at hello...long ago.
~Lance
[ February 13, 2005, 10:07 PM: Message edited by: sportsbettingman ]
"The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once."
~Albert Einstein
~Albert Einstein
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Gordon Gekko
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Originally posted by Venom:
Anyway, news for ya rook, all presidents lie and all people in politics lie. i wonder how many of the following troops knew that the WMD claim was BS?
There have been 1,624 coalition troop deaths, 1,453 Americans, 86 Britons, seven Bulgarians, one Dane, two Dutch, two Estonians, one Hungarian, 20 Italians, one Kazakh, one Latvian, 16 Poles, one Salvadoran, three Slovaks, 11 Spaniards, two Thai and 17 Ukrainians in the war in Iraq as of February 11, 2005.
Originally posted by Venom:
Good bless the USA and send all the nay sayers to 3rd world coutries, so they can come back an appreciate what they have in good ole USA. can you elaborate on what you deem a naysayer? thanks.
Anyway, news for ya rook, all presidents lie and all people in politics lie. i wonder how many of the following troops knew that the WMD claim was BS?
There have been 1,624 coalition troop deaths, 1,453 Americans, 86 Britons, seven Bulgarians, one Dane, two Dutch, two Estonians, one Hungarian, 20 Italians, one Kazakh, one Latvian, 16 Poles, one Salvadoran, three Slovaks, 11 Spaniards, two Thai and 17 Ukrainians in the war in Iraq as of February 11, 2005.
Originally posted by Venom:
Good bless the USA and send all the nay sayers to 3rd world coutries, so they can come back an appreciate what they have in good ole USA. can you elaborate on what you deem a naysayer? thanks.
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Gordon Gekko
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Originally posted by sportsbettingman:
Sometimes you make me wonder GG...
...are you out to raly the republicans? ...because you seem to stand alone with all your democratic help so silent.
doesn't matter if it APPEARS that i stand alone. there are sheep outside the fantasy realms....
Sometimes you make me wonder GG...
...are you out to raly the republicans? ...because you seem to stand alone with all your democratic help so silent.
doesn't matter if it APPEARS that i stand alone. there are sheep outside the fantasy realms....
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Bull Pen Pugs
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37 Troops Die on Deadliest Day in Iraq
Sounds like some people need to get a better education and more skills in the USA. Sounds nice to blame the president for lack of skills and education.... Yah, Im a loser, so let me blame the Republican President, not myself. LOL. Thats okay, ill drive around in my Caddy Srx in style, loving the USA and laughing my ass off.
Wow, CLinton can lie to the amercian public 2 times about having an affair in the whitehouse, but people think that is fine and he was the best president.. LMAO!Thats sad, but is what the USA has growing up in our youth, due to parents with the same mentality. Good luck in ur ventures. GOD BLESS THE USA.. LOVE IT OR LEAVE.
Wow, CLinton can lie to the amercian public 2 times about having an affair in the whitehouse, but people think that is fine and he was the best president.. LMAO!Thats sad, but is what the USA has growing up in our youth, due to parents with the same mentality. Good luck in ur ventures. GOD BLESS THE USA.. LOVE IT OR LEAVE.
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sportsbettingman
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Let me get this straight...the US military should sit and wait for potential extinction before acting?
All Americans should blame the current flavor in the white house for all it's woes?
We all have the God-given right to be able to afford to travel the world...while working at an expendable type job...due to living in America?
We can pitpoint all our life's problems on the current president and military action?
I disagree.
~Lance
All Americans should blame the current flavor in the white house for all it's woes?
We all have the God-given right to be able to afford to travel the world...while working at an expendable type job...due to living in America?
We can pitpoint all our life's problems on the current president and military action?
I disagree.
~Lance
"The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once."
~Albert Einstein
~Albert Einstein
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Gordon Gekko
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Originally posted by sportsbettingman:
We can pitpoint all our life's problems on the current president and military action?
There have been 1,652 coalition troop deaths, 1,481 Americans, 86 Britons, seven Bulgarians, one Dane, two Dutch, two Estonians, one Hungarian, 20 Italians, one Kazakh, one Latvian, 16 Poles, one Salvadoran, three Slovaks, 11 Spaniards, two Thai and 17 Ukrainians in the war in Iraq as of February 22, 2005.
At least 10,968 U.S. troops have been wounded in action, according to the Pentagon.
The Pentagon does not report the number of non-hostile wounded.
We can pitpoint all our life's problems on the current president and military action?
There have been 1,652 coalition troop deaths, 1,481 Americans, 86 Britons, seven Bulgarians, one Dane, two Dutch, two Estonians, one Hungarian, 20 Italians, one Kazakh, one Latvian, 16 Poles, one Salvadoran, three Slovaks, 11 Spaniards, two Thai and 17 Ukrainians in the war in Iraq as of February 22, 2005.
At least 10,968 U.S. troops have been wounded in action, according to the Pentagon.
The Pentagon does not report the number of non-hostile wounded.
37 Troops Die on Deadliest Day in Iraq
It is interesting that someone hasn't brought this up, why are we there in the first place? Yeah, yeah, because Saddam was a bad guy and he hated us and he killed all of the Iraqis that didn't agree with him... And he supported terrorism, blah, blah, blah. And WMD's... But what about before all of that? I mean, why are REALLY there? Oil is the clear answer and is the primary cause. But what was the result of that cause, U.S. intrusion into a world that really didn't want us there in the first place. This goes a long way back, much more than 10 years. Think about why Iran took U.S. hostages during Carter's term in office... Because they didn't want us meddling in their affairs then, and they don't want it now. Look, guys, we made a handful of Saudis rich nearly a century ago in order that we could benefit from their resources. Lo and behold, Saudi Arabia is the holiest of holy lands for all of the people in that region of the world. They don't like it and they don't want us there. The rich Saudis do, so that we can protect their interests (or our interests), but that is a very small percentage of the people. Does anyone remember European-American treatment of the native Americans? It is not really any different now than it was then. They've got something we want, and in the guise of "helping" we are taking. And like the native Americans, they don't know what it is to be an American, to be "civilized", and they carry on in the way that they always have... Resist foreign intrusion. It explains alot, and it helps to explain terrorism. Wouldn't you fight tooth and nail if someone came to your homeland and told you that the way you were living was wrong and they proceeded to change the world around you? Wouldn't YOU resist? Rather than understand where they are coming from, we continue to do as we did with the native Americans...
"Pray to Jesus, or die..."
"Sell us your land, or we'll take it" (a concept totally foreign to the native American people)
"Here is some more whiskey (insert the word money for today's situation), it will make you feel good"
Everyone has a good point(Republican or Democrat, conservative or liberal), but it is going to take some very radical thinking by our people and our politicians to correct the mistakes that we have been making for well over 200 years.
"Pray to Jesus, or die..."
"Sell us your land, or we'll take it" (a concept totally foreign to the native American people)
"Here is some more whiskey (insert the word money for today's situation), it will make you feel good"
Everyone has a good point(Republican or Democrat, conservative or liberal), but it is going to take some very radical thinking by our people and our politicians to correct the mistakes that we have been making for well over 200 years.
George
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Gordon Gekko
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good post straw...guise of "helping"