Bidding for draft Choice

Corkedbats · Post by **Corkedbats** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 7:31 am

chris,

I see your active on the boards...are you going to make good on your wager with me?

I've emailed you my pay pal address:

[email protected]

if you need to reach me you can call my work

888-786-1242 x150

thanks,

Mike

JohnZ · Post by **JohnZ** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 8:06 am

I think Greg needs to find a way to present this idea so that it becomes a major positive to potential customers.

I remember everyone telling me that lifetime leagues would not work in 1989. I have yet to fold a league and a vast majority have stayed in these leagues 15 years now.

I think it would be a bold move, but the more I think about it, the more I think if it was pounded into the PR campaign, the more savvy players on the bench for this type of event would sign up in droves. Yes, some sheep might not join and/or leave, but I bet you'd get more savvy players and it would net a plus. And thinking out 5 years, from a customer view, I think it would be a huge plus over the current way, where everyone whines over some mythical disadvantage. (No one will EVER be able to prove to me that draft slot matters in a 16-team league. I dare you to try.)

Personally, I'm for it because it gives ME an advantage for you to waste your FAAB.

The other thing this event needs is the grand prize raised to $200,000 like WCOFF. Eventhough they dropped baseball, that's the industry leader and you have to be better than them if you're going to pass them. Hopefully, that's where the sponsor comes in.

I think the blind bidding process could easily be programmed in the following way.

premises....

1)sign up cut off Sunday before the draft.

2)As he does now, make sure everyone has Stats page access codes as early as possible.

3)Have backup e-mail program to Greg for those that have access trouble. There's always a few.

4)Greg randomly draws league assignments late Monday.

5)Everyone has all day Tuesday until 8pm to enter their FAAB bids for slots. If you don't enter them, zero is assumed for all spots.

6)FAAB bids work just like FA process now. Looks for highest bid first.

7)Stats process draft bids and draft results are posted on each league website and here on the MB.

8)This can easily be programmed by Stats. It's just an extension of the existing FAAB program.

Greg, if you made this the feature of a PR campaign, I'd bet you'd be surprised at the results. Roll the dice!

[ October 04, 2005, 02:10 PM: Message edited by: UFS ]

JohnZ · Post by **JohnZ** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 8:29 am

Originally posted by nydownunder:

quote:Originally posted by UFS:

Moneymaker picked 8th.

Just proves again, in 16-team league, it does not matter where you pick.

UFS,

How does the fact that the winner chose #8 prove it doesn't matter where you pick? More than 33% of the top 30 overall drafted in spots (6-10). I would take those spots over any others, any day of the week. Managers on the ends are more prone to reach for players because it can be up to another 28 picks before it comes back around to them. Players rarely fall to you at #1 and #15. [/QUOTE]Over the years, you will see the "6-10" change every year. One year, it will be "1-2, 15-16", the next "8-12", and so on.

Is "6-10" the same as last year? I doubt it w/o even looking it up.

There are many, many factors in this rotation, I think the biggest being the player you take in Rd 2 that goes with your #1 pick.

It would not surprise me if the "6-10" teams you mentioned drafted a guy like D.Lee.

All that said, you can look at BOTH NFBC Champions, and EASILY see that the picks they made LATER in the DRAFT had them winning.

Just look at them in the above post.

Spyhunter · Post by **Spyhunter** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 8:43 am

Originally posted by nydownunder:

Chest,

I think the biggest factor that would deter people, or is most critical to the majority whom play, is not knowing where they will be selecting (that would mean up to 0-48 hours before the draft). I think the bidding idea would deter some as well, just not as many as above. I think Krause pulling numbers 1-15 to determine whom chooses which slot in such order makes the most sense. I think there is probably a reason why most people shy away from Auction Leagues (ie bids), thus bids will certainly deter some. You have to realize that there are a good number of people whom do not deem themselves experts, so anything that may increase experts chances over novices, will certainly deter those novices whom help fill out our leagues. I guess I don't understand this point relative to the NFBC - we aren't talking Yahoo Leagues or even ESPN, but people who are willing to put up $1250 to say they are the 'best' of the 'best' at Fantasy baseball... And we do weekly hidden auctions that I haven't seen anyone complain about...

After reading the suggestions here, it really seems like the open-call pre-draft (first 15 minutes at the live draft site) auction makes the most sense. Here are some reasons why:

1. People can 'plan' their pick position ahead of time. If they decide they want the 8th position, then simply bid on it...

2. Getting people together (via conference call or web chat room) in advance for a live draft would be very difficult. But everyone has already planned on their calendar to be at the Draft location on that day!

3. Writing an applet or other approach would require additional coding and would probably be buggy. Also, it would require people to log-in and do something a week or two before the actual draft date which some people might forget.

NYDOWNUNDER - I am curios who the 'great many' is you think will have a problem with it??? Everyone that has posted here has been positive for a mini-auction I think.

I know you aren't trying to argue this, but just trying to think of the broader context. I am in the exact same boat - For example, I am very against twice a week player moves that allow for NON-DL moves as I think this will create pitcher 'streaming' (I am in favor of DL related moves to reduce the bad luck/agony of what injuries do to a team)...

Regards,

Chris

Spyhunter · Post by **Spyhunter** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 8:46 am

Originally posted by Corkedbats:

chris,

I see your active on the boards...are you going to make good on your wager with me?

I've emailed you my pay pal address:

[email protected]

if you need to reach me you can call my work

888-786-1242 x150

thanks,

Mike Of course I am - money xfered to paypal Sunday night - paypal says 3-4 business days to process and then I will be forward on to you. Congrats on our bet. I cam within .5 a point, but the season just wasn't to be this year (sheets, nomar, rolen, etc..)

nydownunder · Post by **nydownunder** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 9:24 am

Spy

Most posters here are experts or the more serious Fantasy Leaguers, so it would be a bad sample to poll.

The 15 minutes prior to the draft is the worst option of them all. I don't mind the whole bid thing, but knowing where you are picking is very important for the first 5 or 6 rounds from a stratgey perspective. I drafted in the number 1 slot this year and it is a hell of a lot different (harder)than drafting at 6, 7, or 8.

The only option should by blind FAAB bids completed within 3 days of the draft. There should be no other considerations.

Kevin D · Post by **Kevin D** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 9:37 am

To my Fantasy Baseball Fellows.

I have really enjoyed the well thoughtout, consise, passionate, discussion on this issue of "Bidding on Draft Position." I sense a desire by the participants to keep the NFBC the premier contest that it is. Not change for change sake, but to improve by putting the NFBC before individual interests. Bravo!!

KJ Duke · Post by **KJ Duke** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 12:10 pm

Originally posted by Kevin D:

To my Fantasy Baseball Fellows.

I have really enjoyed the well thoughtout, consise, passionate, discussion on this issue of "Bidding on Draft Position." I sense a desire by the participants to keep the NFBC the premier contest that it is. Not change for change sake, but to improve by putting the NFBC before individual interests. Bravo!! It is the aggregate personal interests that make up the collective interest. I haven't seen anyone put forth a true "personal" interest - everyone seems to be advocating rules that would apply to everyone equally.

Cellar Dwellers · Post by **Cellar Dwellers** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 7:19 pm

Originally posted by nydownunder:

Spy

Most posters here are experts or the more serious Fantasy Leaguers, so it would be a bad sample to poll.

The 15 minutes prior to the draft is the worst option of them all. I don't mind the whole bid thing, but knowing where you are picking is very important for the first 5 or 6 rounds from a stratgey perspective. I drafted in the number 1 slot this year and it is a hell of a lot different (harder)than drafting at 6, 7, or 8.

The only option should by blind FAAB bids completed within 3 days of the draft. There should be no other considerations. I agree with this 100%. There's no reason we can't all bid on where we draft and have those results at least 2 or 3 days before the draft to setup strategy. I'm not going another year picking in the 13-15 hole again for a third year.

Kevin D · Post by **Kevin D** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 1:48 am

Cellar Man. Those who want 2 or three days advance knowlege of there draft position aren't seeing that bidding 15 minutes prior to the event adds a dynamic challenge to Fantasy players. That being that you must know the players well enough to formulate a stategy in that 15 minutes. Personally I don't see it as that difficult. The top 50 picks aren't going to change much(if at all) and then it's about assembling your team. You've got to do that on the fly-- (Much more exciting(FUN!!) and a truer test of who's more well versed on how players fit together to make a competative team. Stategies revoling around draft postion are numerous and varied. If you really have a strong opinion you bid high and try to get the slot you value. It's becomes part of the "Who's the best Owner equation," and how much (FAAB$) you're willing to trust YOUR thoughts (Skill) on these matters. Use the three days to evalute the overall importance of the players, how and where the top 50 (3 Plus Rounds) might fall, what's left, what they offer, etc, etc.

The bottom line, for me, is that this bidding process just before the start turns up the pressue. More pressure equates to a truer test of knowedge and ability to put that knowedge in play. The cream rises to the top. If you want more pure chance play Fantasty Football. Not that the better players don't do better in FF but the best drafts and stategies can incinerate in seconds due to injuries, there are fewer choices to make so the choices become more critical, and you've only got 16 Chances to make those Choices. Hell, football's already 25% complete for those who MAKE their playoffs!!!

nydownunder · Post by **nydownunder** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 2:18 am

Kevin,

People put in enough time preparing for the draft, there is no need to put everyone in a position to have to double that. How so you ask, well knowing where you pick a few days beforehand allows you to better dictate whom you can get in the first 5-6 rounds, thus refocusing where and when you can fill your needs in the middle rounds (such as Catchers and Second Basemen). If you don't have enought time to sort through all that, then you will need to double your effort in laying out all the different scenarios (ie slot impacts). Believe me when I say, if NFBC moves to a 15 minutes prior Bid process, attendance will drop off. Sure we have the Base Jumper/Speed Skiers/Street Lugers of our league that would love the adrenaline rush of your idea...but I am willing to bet you that it is a small minority of the league (not message board posters).

And please don't tell me that its DYNAMIC! There is a very good reason that ever single Professional Sport's Draft determines the order well in advance. The fact that you have to fill each postion in one single draft makes time for planning all that more important. Now this doesn't mean we should know a month out, That's not realistic, but 3 days certainly is. And that would still keep the majority happy.

[ October 05, 2005, 08:23 AM: Message edited by: nydownunder ]

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 2:56 am

Let me just chime in and say that I appreciate all of the talk on the draft slot process. I've gone on record as saying I'd someday like to improve this as well, even though it might not be in 2006. I think it's doable and I think we could communicate the process very easily; just as easily as we did when explaining how to use FAAB.

But one point I want to make clear right now is that I'm convinced that the best way to do this is still have whatever process is in place pick the draft slots no later than the Monday before Draft Day. I won't do any Draft Day bidding for spots or random drawings at the draft. Yeah, that could be cool and maybe one day TV will ask for it (wishful dreaming!). But honestly I think it's fair for everyone to have 5 or more days to prepare for whatever spot they are drafting from.

So while I will continue to look at improving the draft slot process, my goal will continue to be this: Sell out the event as soon as possible and always have the picks announced a week or so before the live draft. That I feel strongly about.

Kevin D · Post by **Kevin D** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 3:58 am

LOL!! Come on Greg, Strap a pair of Roller Skates on your ass and try Street Luging. Heh!! Heh!! Heh!! Love that metaphor Those guys ARE certifiable.

[ October 05, 2005, 11:34 AM: Message edited by: Kevin D ]

Spyhunter · Post by **Spyhunter** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 4:13 am

Lol, one last thought around the early draft spot...

this is kind of funny - I participate in multiple ESPN leagues with many casual players and guess what - ESPN gives out random slots with 5 minutes to go on draft day and somehow all the players do fine. I mean seriously, it isn't like you know who people will pick in the other slots - you have to react no matter what so why exactly do people need 3 days to think about the first 30-40 players???

Anyway, I will leave this point alone as Greg has spoken.

I really hope great that you see Cellar Dwellars point above - random picks create enormous frustration. A simple bid would remove this as a huge hole. You have already fixed two big holes 1) ability to draft a fake pitching team and 2) people getting doubley screwed by injuries. Why not make it a Trifecta and address this one spot - we have 6 months to do it !!! I promise to redouble by efforts to get more involved if you do

Spy

nydownunder · Post by **nydownunder** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 4:27 am

Spy, The key word there was 'casual'. I too participate in those types of leagues, but they are free and they don't have a prize pool like the NFBC. But still, I would like to see such a bidding process similar to the blind FAAB more than 3 days out from the draft.

Spyhunter · Post by **Spyhunter** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 4:39 am

Originally posted by nydownunder:

Spy, The key word there was 'casual'. I too participate in those types of leagues, but they are free and they don't have a prize pool like the NFBC. But still, I would like to see such a bidding process similar to the blind FAAB more than 3 days out from the draft. Just a couple notes: 1) ESPN hasnt been free - 19.95 isn't $1250 but it is very different yahoo 2) I have played in some extremely competitive leagues there where we call contributed $100 to a total prize pool, so again, it wasn't like the NFBC, but it was still allot of many of the people who were in those leagues.

As for the bidding process - why make it blind? why not open bidding? I am curious

Spy

nydownunder · Post by **nydownunder** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 5:19 am

Originally posted by Spyhunter:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by nydownunder:

[qb] As for the bidding process - why make it blind? why not open bidding? I am curious

Spy Logistics! How do you do that and still give everyone 3-7 days to prepare (knowing their draft slot). If you can figure that out, then I would be up for that. And getting everyone online at the same time is not the easiest thing to coordinate.