pineda for montero

[751542]

in a nut shell
i bet both sides of the fantasy world are happy. montero gets a full time gig and qualifies at c fast and the pineda owners get a big spike in wins...wow..win win for both players and their fantasy owners.

[Winston's Empire]

Totally agree that both players and teams get a bump! Will be interested to see who wins this trade over the long run between the Mariners and the Yankee's though. I bet the Yankee's, because I just don't think they ever planned on letting Montero catch full time and they could hire any old "PRINCE" to be their full time DH!!!
A 22 year old 6-7, 270lb pitcher like Pineda could be the Yankee's Ace of the future right now... Tough to come by.
Fun Trade!!!!!

[swampass]

oh.. i think this is great for fantasy and its great for the yanks. but how on earth the M's trade what could be a 22 year old franchise starter for a DH is beyond me. everything ive read says that montero is a lousy catcher. he can hit the cover off the ball but a lousy catcher. the M's have already wasted money and roster spots on olivo and jaso...

i think this is typical of why the Mariners will never win and why the Yanks are one of the better franchises out there and it and it pains me to say it being a red sox fan. i think this trade is crazy lopsided as i never believe in trading good hitting for good pitching. dominating pitching is next to impossible to find... hitters grow on trees.

[BK METS]

It will interesting to see if Montero actually catches. He cant catch for nothing. He is horrible. He can definitely hit. They have Olivo and Jaso.. I think he is a DH in my opinion.

[751542]

oh.. i think this is great for fantasy and its great for the yanks. but how on earth the M's trade what could be a 22 year old franchise starter for a DH is beyond me. everything ive read says that montero is a lousy catcher. he can hit the cover off the ball but a lousy catcher. the M's have already wasted money and roster spots on olivo and jaso...

i think this is typical of why the Mariners will never win and why the Yanks are one of the better franchises out there and it and it pains me to say it being a red sox fan. i think this trade is crazy lopsided as i never believe in trading good hitting for good pitching. dominating pitching is next to impossible to find... hitters grow on trees.

i am talking about this trade in fantasy speak! in real life, no brainer yankees win on paper today. pineda blows out his arm in spring training another story

[BK METS]

Don't downplay the Hector Noesi part of the deal. Very good young pitching prospect who was not just a throw in.

[swampass]

neosi's minor lg numbers a few years ago looked great.. the last 2 not so much. his time in the majors last year was pretty bad, statistically.

but if we are talking about "throw ins" i once again say the yanks win.. here is the rotowire write up on the campos kid that the yanks got for noesi (since its a 2 for 2)

"Campos, 19, was one of the better prospects in the low minors for the Mariners. He started 14 games last year at Low-A Everett and struck out 85 in 81.1 innings with 13 walks. The 6-4 right-hander likely will move to High-A ball for the Yankees this season."

again.. his size and k/bb ratio scream really nice prospect... granted lower competition. but thats when noesi showed promise as well.. 2 years ago at age 22 in the high A's. campos is 19.

oh and sure.. pineda can blow out his arm at anytime.. but its not like montero is covered in bubble wrap. he could hurt himself in a million ways if they try to play him at catcher. i do think that montero is a possible massive help to the current M's hitters.

[Winston's Empire]

Lets look at this from a Fantasy Baseball ADP Perspective!
As of This Friday the 13th of January, 2012 at 9:30 pm EST

Michael Pineda is going on average as the 21st Starting Pitcher and 88.50 (5.14) Overall.

Jesus Montero is going on avarage as the 11th Catcher (Even though he is only DH Eligible in NFBC) and 176.75 (11.12) Overall.

Will be interesting to watch these two young stars move from here!

* All ADP #'s are available under the Stats Tab - NFBC ADP on your NFBC Team Home Page. Just a little shout out Greg for the New AWESOME Feature you and STATS came out with today!!!!

[Atlas]

CBS reporting Yanks signed Kuroda too.
Bye-bye AJ

[Rainiers]

It is sad day to be a Mariner fan.

Not so much for this deal, which is bad one, but because it is a reminder of what might of been.

Jesus Montero should already be a Mariner, instead of Justin Smoak....the player Trader Jack opted for over Monetro when he dealt the rent-a-pitcher Cliff Lee two years ago.

Now Pinero straight up for Montero is questionable, if only because Montero, who is no doubt going to be a fabulous hitter, is a liability with a glove on. But the throw- ins, OMG, Campos vs. Noesi??? Campos we could have built around...

The M's are stuck in the mud until Ichiro retires and they lose the financial obligations owed Figgins.

Ichiro will play as long as he wants to, which most likely be until he gets 3,000 MLB hits and surpasses Rose total hits as a professional. That is at least three years away.

We owe Figgins $8mm a year for the next two years.

Jack would have been better off dealing Felix now, gotten more, saved some money, and been building for the long run. We could have possibly competed when the Angels were dealing with long-in-tooth Vernon Wells and Albert Pujols contracts 2-3 years from now. And when Texas is also past their prime. I'm not sure what he is doing now, other than maybe trying to save his job for a year or two.

Oh well...It is Friday the Thirteenth after all.

[Rog]

so does this mean that the yankees are going to sign damon to bat from the left side and keep andruw jones as the right handed dh?

[Outlaw]

The yankees will sign Prince!

[Rog]

that sure would jump his adp up 4 or 5 spots

[Fourslot40]

They signed Kuroda to a one-year deal as well. They added some much needed depth and the moves push Burnett way down the line... thankfully!

[Schwks]

From the Yankees perspective, they are telling us a few things:

1) They do not believe Hughes' body/shoulder holds up as a starter. Hughes was last effective over a long haul as a reliever. I think that they believed that he adds the most value to that team, combining with Robertson and Soriano to set up Mariano. Lets face it if Hughes can show the form he did as a reliever, the Yanks back end looks formidable.

2) The Yankees realize they have 7 more years of contractual obligation to ARod who will turn 37. ARod now has chronic injuries to his hip, shoulder and knee. They have 5 more years owed to Tex, who is in his early 30's, 3 more to jeter who is approaching 40. Heck, even Grandy, Cano and Swish are in their 30's now. The Yankees need a DH spot free to rotate their aging nucleus through. They can not have a set DH with this team makeup. There was no way Montero was going to see time behind the plate for the Yanks. IMO the Yanks have viewed Montero as a trade chip only for the last 3 years. It was all about increasing his value. Man did he oblige by hitting in his limited engagement in 2011.

3) There was no way that Cashman was going to go into this season like he did last. This means that he was not going to start out with Nova, AJ, Garcia and Hughes to follow CC in rotation. The Yanks do not see Nova as a #2. They know the other three guys are crap shoots at best, and at worst, unstartable. Cashman timed the market beautifully, because he likely would have taken any of jackson, Kuroda or Oswalt on a 1 year deal. By playing the waiting game, and pretending they were ok with their rotation, they were able to get Kuroda on the cheap, and for one year. Meanwhile, the price goes up for E Jack and Oswalt when the Sox go to sign one, which they absolutely need to do.

Absolutely brilliantly played by the Yanks in my opinion.

[Schwks]

From the Mariners perspective, Jack Z despite his brilliant rep seems to be making a mess. His whole philosophy that he brought to Seattle was that defense was undervalued in the same way that OBP was during the Moneyball Oakland era. So he signs guys who had good defensive metrics, and loads up on pitching prospects to complement it.

First, Montero may turn out to be the next Miguel Cabrera or Edgar Martinez as some people claim. Or he may turn out to be the hitter he was in AAA last year, a nice piece. Conversely he may flop, despite all scouting reports and his 88 Major League AB results. Remember he is JUST A PROSPECT until he proves it over a grueling full season of facing the best pitchers in the world.

What I do know is that Montero will likely not catch for Sea either. Jack Z loves defense and I can't envision him turning over the reins to a rookie who is a consensus liability behind the plate, especially with the general consensus that a defensively strong team needs to be solid up the middle.

At first base they have to be somewhat committed to Smoak. Behind him is Carp, who could slot in in the OF. So in return for a 6'5 flamethrower who proved himself over a full major league season, they got a position less DH who has THE POTENTIAL to be an impact bat. Not a good deal IMO.

The consensus among the experts is that Montero now has an easy entry to qualifying at catcher. If the masses believe in this, his draft price will go up. Heck just with the increased profile generated out of this trade, his ADP will probably trend up. I wonder if caution is not warranted in Montero's case.

[headhunters]

schwks- mostly agree. just awfull trade. park makes huge diff. and smoak was a pretty good hitter UNTIL the majors so we will see in seattle how montero is. the gm may be getting pressed by ownership to add hitting- to keep his job for awhile. sometimes i think these gms know they are gonna be out. i also think teams in big parks will struggle for fans in this era- fans dig the long ball

[BK METS]

I GUARANTY you that this deal will turn out best for Seattle. Pineda is good but the Yankees ruin good young pitchers. Who is the last good young pitcher to actually make it in New York, on either team? Pettite?

On the other hand, Montero is a sick hitter and the throw ins favor Seattle too. Good deal for both teams, better for Seattle in my opinion.

[Captain Hook]

I wanted to quote several posts that belittled the Mariners side of this but will just reply to all of them.

Seattle has and will continue to have a hard time finding good FA hitters to sign on to play in Safeco. So the answer is to either "grow" them or to trade for them. Getting a very good middle of the order producer in Montero (regardless of where he plays) is a very good move for them - it's their offense that prevented more wins last year and will again this year. And currently the Mariners farm system has a handful of extremely high quality pitching prospects while Ryan Franklin (at best a good not great hitting shortstop without a lot of power) is their best hitter on the way.

So while trading Pineda weakens their rotation for this year, they have more coming and NEEDED a hitter like Montero who should be a good bat in their lineup for years. IF Smoak finds his stroke, they will eventually have Montero, Smoak, Ackley, Franklin and Carp as a nice basis for producing some runs - of course they will need to add addtional bats but their window in the AL West is not this year or next but hopefully a few years down the road when this trade will look much better for them.

PS - and for the suggestion that they lost something with Campos he was not in their top tier of pitching prospects

[Glenneration X]

How did Hamilton for Volquez work out? Seemed pretty even at the time. We'll see how this one works out down the line.

[Rainiers]

Glenn,

I agree to truly evaluate any trade, you need to wait and see how it plays out.

In the short term it looks like it will benefit the Yankees to me.

But five years from now, who knows, Montero could be more valuable than Pineda.

But by then, if Campos' potential plays out, a big if for any young pitcher, he could be the biggest name in this trade.

Here is a quote from the NY Daily News: "One scout in particular believes that Campos will actually turn out to be the better pitcher for Cashman. “For me, Campos was the No. 1 pitcher in Venezuela (winter league) last year and this year,” the scout said. “In addition to his live arm and plus three pitches, he’s got a beautiful, fluid delivery. I believe he could come real fast.”

Please note the scout is comparing Campos to Pineda. Didn't even bother to compare him to Noesi.

So yes, let's wait and see. But let's not forget about the "throw-ins"of this trade when we look back on it.

Robert

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseb ... z1jWjAcWD4

[LTDave]

So... people are actually thinking Montero is going to gain "quick eligibility at catcher"? What are they going to do with Olivo and Jaso (who they also recently traded for) then? I understand they're not great catchers or anything. but it seems much more likely to me that Montero will be eased into catcher - maybe a couple starts per month, while Carp slides over to LF and Trayvon Robinson heads back to the minors for more seasoning... I think we'll know more by spring training obviously, but as of now I don't think it would be very prudent to value Montero as a catcher... think you might get burned. The guy didn't hit righties well last season and is going to the worst hitters park in the AL now (from one of the best). I really like this deal for the Yankees... which sucks since I hate the Yankees haha

[751542]

Mariners general manager Jack Zduriencik said Monday that Jesus Montero will be "given every opportunity to catch."
Many scouts are skeptical about Montero's ability behind the plate, but it's probably worth seeing whether he can become a viable option in the long-term, especially for a team like the Mariners who aren't expected to contend in the AL West. The catcher-eligibility would be pretty helpful for fantasy owners.

hmm, how about a 10-13 game tryout period, they didnt trade for this guy to DH!! jaso and olivo scare me as much as billy cundiff and that goat williams!

[Captain Hook]

.... that goat williams!

For those who can't figure out what the White Sox are doing............Kyle Williams the 49ers WR who had a game to forget may just be following in his father's footsteps........yes Chicago GM Kenny Williams is his father

[751542]

.... that goat williams!

For those who can't figure out what the White Sox are doing............Kyle Williams the 49ers WR who had a game to forget may just be following in his father's footsteps........yes Chicago GM Kenny Williams is his father

too funny, runs in the family i guess