A Legal Take on Ryan Braun

[Hells Satans]

Why would they do that?

How did you find that out, or is it your best guess?

Just a guess. My thoughts are up a few posts on the leak issue.

[Outlaw]

In Braun's interview he was stern and is exploring his legal options. my take from what he said, Hes uspects tampering and stated, experts said it would be extremely easy to accomplish. Again, the biggest questions will remain, Why? how? and who?

Based on all any of us know, Good for him for standing up. Like always tell my kids, when something happens and no one owns up to it, I guess the ghost did it. But the act forever remains a mystery in the end.

[Greg Ambrosius]

All plausible Bob. I won't fight you on any of the possibilities.

ESPN's Lester Munson just said on ESPN 2 that there is now doubt on even if the urine sample was Braun's. He's also saying that the sample was left on this guy's desk for two days, not refrigerated like was first reported. There's a screwup here and enough doubt to say, FAULTY TEST. The more facts that come out the more we'll know, but there sure does seem like someone screwed up and it might not have been Braun.

Greg,

What will be the procedure for random testing in Vegas? And we will need the report leaked so we can know who to contact for the good stuff.

Wayne, there will be plenty of leaking going on in Las Vegas, but none of it will be saved or sampled for that matter!! We are flushing it all right down to the depths of Sin City!!

Just everyone leave me to my Corona's and don't tell my bosses I'm drinking with the customers and we'll all be fine!!

[Greg Ambrosius]

In Braun's interview he was stern and is exploring his legal options. my take from what he said, Hes uspects tampering and stated, experts said it would be extremely easy to accomplish. Again, the biggest questions will remain, Why? how? and who?

Based on all any of us know, Good for him for standing up. Like always tell my kids, when something happens and no one owns up to it, I guess the ghost did it. But the act forever remains a mystery in the end.

ESPN's Lester Munson is the best when it comes to these type of stories. He just said the guy who handled the sample drove by 14 FedEx offices on his way home and kept the sample at his home for 2 days. He was a part-timer who was handling millions of dollars worth of pee. MLB should be pissed at the lab involved and the people they hired, not their reigning MVP.

If Braun is lying, he's sure a good liar. That was a pretty convincing press conference and he pretty much said "the test was flawed. I had NOTHING in my system." Whether that's true or not, only he knows. But he is putting himself way out there in disputing the announced facts COMPLETELY.

[Tom Kessenich]

Braun reportedly passed a lie detector test. That's not conclusive proof but it certainly is more evidence which supports his determination to do whatever he needs to in order to prove he's innocent.

[BK METS]

Why the heck would MLB want to pursue anything to dispute the overturn of the suspension? Everyone knows that the process was compromised. You have one of your superstars on the verge of being tainted by steroids, further hurting the game. You lose a case which proves to be an embarrassment to the league for the false accusation. (guilty until proven innocent) Why would you want to prolong this? No one is going to overturn an arbitrator. If they drag this on, they just hurt themselves. The future of the drug testing process will be fine, if everyone does their job. Its not that difficult to follow simple directions, which the handler did not do. End it and hope it completely goes away after Braun puts up another 30/30 season.

[Schwks]

For those of us who drafted with Norm and who read his blog, we should all be grateful to have his wit, intelligence and the diversity of thought to us borderline Trekkies...perfectly stated Norm.

[ToddZ]

Will Carroll interview, talking about the science

http://audio.weei.com/a/52238582/will-c ... turned.htm

[Greg Ambrosius]

This is a pretty thorough recap from ESPN.com:

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/pag ... ng-experts

And an even better commentary piece by Jon Heyman:

http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entr ... a_txt_0001

All the reactions you want here:

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/140398643.html

[rockitsauce]

From the ESPN story, a couple items that stood out to me -

"Braun did not dispute the positive IRMS test in his defense in front of the arbitration panel, according to two sources with knowledge of the hearing".

"MLB isn't thrilled about having to address the issue at all; its argument is that while Braun questioned the integrity of his sample in public, he did not do so in his hearing. So if the sample was secure and its integrity wasn't compromised, then why should it matter whether it took the collector 10 minutes or 48 hours to ship the sample"?

Today's Buster Olney's blog included a link for an article by Mike Lupica, which raises an interesting point w/ all this talk about Braun suing MLB......perhaps he better watch what he says or he might be the one getting sued.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseb ... -1.1028642

[ToddZ]

The 400 pound gorilla is still the report from Will Carroll that the legal team was able to replicate the results by storing the sample improperly.

It is not really a chain of custody issue -- the whereabouts of the sample are known at all times.

It is the storage and treatment of the sample that is the (potential) problem.

That said, it bothers me that

a. Will is the only one (that I have seen) either reporting or corroborating the story.
b. More is not being made of the story, good or bad.

The thing to keep in mind is these tests measure RATIOS and if one of the two compounds has broken down, the ratios can change. Storing in the improper conditions can induce compounds to break down and not all compounds break down at the same rate.

[The Mighty Men]

The 400 pound gorilla is still the report from Will Carroll that the legal team was able to replicate the results by storing the sample improperly.

His legal team ought to get a Nobel prize for what they did and winning this appeal. That is outstanding work.

[Greg Ambrosius]

The 400 pound gorilla is still the report from Will Carroll that the legal team was able to replicate the results by storing the sample improperly.

His legal team ought to get a Nobel prize for what they did and winning this appeal. That is outstanding work.

Todd is absolutely right and for some reason you don't hear the ESPN analysts mentioning this at all. They just keep referring to Braun as getting off on a "technicality." Braun's sample was 3 times the highest level ever taken by an MLB player and yet his second test was normal. Something just doesn't seem right.

[Hells Satans]

The 400 pound gorilla is still the report from Will Carroll that the legal team was able to replicate the results by storing the sample improperly.

It is not really a chain of custody issue -- the whereabouts of the sample are known at all times.

It is the storage and treatment of the sample that is the (potential) problem.

That said, it bothers me that

a. Will is the only one (that I have seen) either reporting or corroborating the story.
b. More is not being made of the story, good or bad.

The thing to keep in mind is these tests measure RATIOS and if one of the two compounds has broken down, the ratios can change. Storing in the improper conditions can induce compounds to break down and not all compounds break down at the same rate.

If Carroll's story was true, not only would more people be reporting it, Braun's team would be LEADING with this. They would be leaking it to every reporter. It would be everywhere. Instead, they have made absolutely zero noise about this at all. Which, in my view, means it's 100% false. I don't think he made it up, but I think he's received bad info.

[rockitsauce]

The 400 pound gorilla is still the report from Will Carroll that the legal team was able to replicate the results by storing the sample improperly.

His legal team ought to get a Nobel prize for what they did and winning this appeal. That is outstanding work.

Todd is absolutely right and for some reason you don't hear the ESPN analysts mentioning this at all. They just keep referring to Braun as getting off on a "technicality." Braun's sample was 3 times the highest level ever taken by an MLB player and yet his second test was normal. Something just doesn't seem right.

That's b/c MLB didn't administer a 2nd test. He arranged that on his own...just another in a series of outstanding moves made by his legal team. Jack is right, they are the MVP's here.

As far as Braun's extremely high result in 1st test, here is another interesing quote from ESPN story Greg had provided -

"It's possible that no one has ever tested that high in baseball, but Don Catlin, the former director for the Olympic lab at UCLA who is considered the father of performance-enhancing drug testing, said he has seen cases that exceeded 100-to-1. A 20-to-1 ratio, he and others said, is not unusual in a positive test".

[Tom Kessenich]

As far as Braun's extremely high result in 1st test, here is another interesing quote from ESPN story Greg had provided -

"It's possible that no one has ever tested that high in baseball, but Don Catlin, the former director for the Olympic lab at UCLA who is considered the father of performance-enhancing drug testing, said he has seen cases that exceeded 100-to-1. A 20-to-1 ratio, he and others said, is not unusual in a positive test".

I'd be interested to know how many of those cases involved athletes who passed 26 of 27 other tests and had shown no indications of physical changes or enhanced performance.

[Hells Satans]

I love how random stuff that gets reported becomes fact.

He passed 25 tests.
He passed a lie detector.
This is the highest result ever by like 5x.
He offered DNA testing but MLB refused.
The courier was a Cubs fan.
Braun's team showed it's easy to make synthetic testosterone appear in a urine test.
And so on and so on.

People say all kinds of shit and constantly lie when it is in their interests to do so. Today's media will literally report anything that gets fed to them.

I don't know what's true and what's false, but I refuse to except as "fact" things that are leaked by people with clear incentives for doing so.

[Greg Ambrosius]

I love how random stuff that gets reported becomes fact.

He passed 25 tests.
He passed a lie detector.
This is the highest result ever by like 5x.
He offered DNA testing but MLB refused.
The courier was a Cubs fan.
Braun's team showed it's easy to make synthetic testosterone appear in a urine test.
And so on and so on.

People say all kinds of shit and constantly lie when it is in their interests to do so. Today's media will literally report anything that gets fed to them.

I don't know what's true and what's false, but I refuse to except as "fact" things that are leaked by people with clear incentives for doing so.

Great, that's the summation we all need. Let's not listen or believe any more sh*t about this case. He's been proven not guilty of something that never should have been leaked to the press in the first place, so let's ALL move on and draft him for the skills we think he will display unjuiced in 2012. Good luck all.

[rockitsauce]

Great, that's the summation we all need. Let's not listen or believe any more sh*t about this case. He's been proven not guilty of something that never should have been leaked to the press in the first place, so let's ALL move on and draft him for the skills we think he will display unjuiced in 2012. Good luck all.

Not guilty? thats quite dubious Greg, sorry for u and other Brewer fans, but this shit ain't goin nowhere, esp if the golden boy keeps runnin his mouth about the collector, who did his job EXACTLY as he was instructed by MLB. It must be hard having to defend jewish palmeiro, but as the saying goes - it is what it is. Also I have no problem w/ cheaters being exposed for what they are. Journalists are supposed to shine a light on this type of behavior.

His sample stayed the wkend in this guy's basement fridge and (despite any nonsense from team Braun) there is no truth that his urine could somehow have 20x the amount of testosterone as normal just b/c of it's storage - the article from the Mil Sent-Journal was quite clear on that.

As far as tampering, even team Braun did NOT make this obviously disingenuous claim, from article I just mentioned -

"Twenty-to-one is off the radar screen," Wadler said. "There is no way that sitting around for 44 hours would have resulted in elevated testosterone (or synthetic testosterone)."

Testosterone is the male hormone that helps build muscle.

Wadler said Braun won his appeal on a "procedural technicality," that his sample was kept for 44 hours in the refrigerator of the person who collected it before it was shipped to the testing lab, creating a chain of command question.

That raises the question of tampering.

Is it possible to tamper with the urine sample of a player during the major league baseball drug testing process?

That question was bandied about with great vigor after Braun suggested during a news conference last week that tampering was a possibility with his positive drug test that he had overturned with a successful appeal to a three-man arbitration panel.

The Office of Commissioner Bud Selig quickly responded to Braun's allegation, with executive vice president Rob Manfred saying, "Neither Mr. Braun nor the Major League Baseball Players Association contended in the grievance that his sample had been tampered with or produced any evidence of tampering."

Why would he make that claim to the public, but not privately when it really mattered ? You know why Jack & Bob think his defense team deserves such high praise ? Cuz they're lawyers and they know a guilty man got off on some BS. I'm not a lawyer, but I smell a rat too. I included 2 articles from Busters blog today for anyone interested. Decide for yourself.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-022 ... 110.column



http://www.jsonline.com/sports/brewers/ ... 65663.html



* edit - I forgot to mention that if u replace Braun w/ Chase Utley there is every real possibility that I'd lose my sense of logic & reason and my fandom would kick in and I'd deny til the bitter end, but I think deep down I'd have to admit the truth..and the truth definitely hurts sometimes.