NFBC H2H and lesser priced league options

[Steel Lugnuts]

Perhaps this has already been discussed and I missed it, and I know the old-school players won't like it, but I think if NFBC offered H2H league options, that would bring in a huge market of fantasy baseball players. I was suprised how many people I talk to that only started playing fantasy baseball the last couple years and never even heard of ROTO! Either that, or they've heard of it and have no idea how to play.

Standings and payouts could be similar to the current format, win your league and win $1000, etc...score the most overall points out of everyone and win $10,000 (for DC leagues), or $100,000 for the ME leagues.

I've been reading some of the trash talking already going on with the regulars on this site, and that's with year-long leagues that haven't even started yet! Can you imagine games that matter on a weekly basis? I think it would be pretty awesome.

I also think some smaller priced leagues, like a $25 and $50 satellite leagues, would be a good idea to bring in some new players that may be on the fence or what to give this site a try.

[BK METS]

This is my opinion, so take it for what its worth. The NFBC is high stakes fantasy baseball. There are many yahoo, espn, and cbs style H2H leagues out there for the masses.

[Steel Lugnuts]

This is my opinion, so take it for what its worth. The NFBC is high stakes fantasy baseball. There are many yahoo, espn, and cbs style H2H leagues out there for the masses.

It's about making money, you real 'em in, get 'em hooked, then they spend the big bucks!

And not sure why you couldn't make H2H a high stakes affair. I bet in 5-years, there would be more H2H league signups than Roto leagues signups. Have to go with the flow as far as popularity. If NFBC doesn't do it, someone will.

EDIT: BTW - it's understood that if you want to win the big $, you would have to spend the big $. Adding smaller priced leagues wouldn't make this a low class outfit, seems rather short-sighted on your part.

[BK METS]

Just stated my opinion. I don't make decisions here.

[Steel Lugnuts]

Just stated my opinion. I don't make decisions here.

Obviously...and that's probably a good thing!

Just little ol' me knows at least 12 people in the last couple days that would think about trying a NFBC Roto league if the price were cheaper (just to check it out), and all of them would join a H2H league for a shot at winning $10,000/$100,000.

Not exactly a scientific poll, but probably not far off.

[anelson97]

H2H does not measure a complete champion....it measures who had the best 26 weekly matchups throughout the season. Whereas Roto....will more than likely payout to the best/most complete team. How many of your football champions had the "best team?" Prolly not many!

I understand your point about getting people hooked by having $25 dollar leagues etc., however...if they start losing they will check out and won't compete anymore (not enough money to keep them invested). That will dramatically affect the overall standings, because that player will never pass anyone....which in turn would limit the number of points people could gain/lose in every category.

Hope this helps....I gotta get to bed, Night!

Andy

[Steel Lugnuts]

H2H does not measure a complete champion....it measures who had the best 26 weekly matchups throughout the season. Whereas Roto....will more than likely payout to the best/most complete team. How many of your football champions had the "best team?" Prolly not many!

I understand your point about getting people hooked by having $25 dollar leagues etc., however...if they start losing they will check out and won't compete anymore (not enough money to keep them invested). That will dramatically affect the overall standings, because that player will never pass anyone....which in turn would limit the number of points people could gain/lose in every category.

Hope this helps....I gotta get to bed, Night!

Andy

Doesn't really help, but thanks anyway!

How does H2H not measure a complete champion? The team that scores the most points overall wins the whole thing? This is tallied on a weekly basis, not too difficult to figure out, but then again, I don't epect true Roto heads to understand the concept.

Even the High-Stakes Fantasy Football on this site uses Total Points Scored and some sites even offer a cut-line using total points scored to crown an overall champion...wow, crazy stuff!

And to your point about people checking out in a $25 league, you don't think that happens in $125 league? Happened in one of mine last year.

[Cobb]

H2H does not measure a complete champion....it measures who had the best 26 weekly matchups throughout the season. Whereas Roto....will more than likely payout to the best/most complete team. How many of your football champions had the "best team?" Prolly not many!

I understand your point about getting people hooked by having $25 dollar leagues etc., however...if they start losing they will check out and won't compete anymore (not enough money to keep them invested). That will dramatically affect the overall standings, because that player will never pass anyone....which in turn would limit the number of points people could gain/lose in every category.

Hope this helps....I gotta get to bed, Night!

Andy

Doesn't really help, but thanks anyway!


How does H2H not measure a complete champion? The team that scores the most points overall wins the whole thing? This is tallied on a weekly basis, not too difficult to figure out, but then again, I don't epect true Roto heads to understand the concept.

Even the High-Stakes Fantasy Football on this site uses Total Points Scored and some sites even offer a cut-line using total points scored to crown an overall champion...wow, crazy stuff!

And to your point about people checking out in a $25 league, you don't think that happens in $125 league? Happened in one of mine last year.

Lugnut-

Why do you post a topic and then attack everybody who replies? H2H is not something that interests this group...

[anelson97]

LOL.... Ok, you are Welcome. You might wanna define what H2H is to you, because it is not total points....that is Roto. You are correct people do check out in $125 leagues too, but odds are that more will check out with the smaller dollar amount the league. H2H is fun when you are playing with your friends... IMO, not when you are playing nationally with people you do know, or when you are looking for an overall champion.

I mean you could play me one week, and I could have the lowest points in every category.....you could have the 2nd lowest in every category....and you go 10-0. Or visa versa....I have the most points in every category, and you have the least....you go 0-10, and yet you were the 2nd best them overall.

I do get what you are saying, the NFFC puts total points in their set up to get an true overall champion....not just the team that had the 13 best/luckiest weekly matchups. That is why they pay out both, an both advance for the $100K.

[Steel Lugnuts]

"Why do you post a topic and then attack everybody who replies? H2H is not something that interests this group...'

Define attack for me! No, nevermind, then this will get off topic like a few posts I've seen on this board.

I didn't realize you spoke for the whole board. I was just bringing up a couple suggestions that the other 11 players in my H2H league mentioned to me...I guess I'll put you down as againts my suggetions!

EDIT: OK, now you made me feel bad Mr. Cobb...sorry BK and anelson for attacking you guys, my apologies!

A quick thought, and not an attack, would be anyone that doesn't like H2H leagues, don't sign up for one...no big deal.

HTH

[Cobb]

"Why do you post a topic and then attack everybody who replies? H2H is not something that interests this group...'

Define attack for me! No, nevermind, then this will get off topic like a few posts I've seen on this board.

I didn't realize you spoke for the whole board. I was just bringing up a couple suggestions that the other 11 players in my H2H league mentioned to me...I guess I'll put you down as againts my suggetions!

EDIT: OK, now you made me feel bad Mr. Cobb...sorry BK and anelson for attacking you guys, my apologies!

A quick thought, and not an attack, would be anyone that doesn't like H2H leagues, don't sign up for one...no big deal.

HTH

Just because you put ! doesn't mean you're not attacking. You couldn't even help yourself, you had to even say something negative about me as well, someone who's been in the NFBC for 7 years.

I'll do you a favor and make sure I don't join any of your Yahoo H2H leagues Lug!!!!!

[Red Sox Nation-]

Greg and Tom,

Please don't ever set up a league with less than a $150 price point. Imagine how many people you'd have with $25 entries. The post about yahoo/espn was spot on. One of the best parts of the NFBC is the customer service. If we have a problem or question we can actually talk to or email Greg and Tom. If you have a problem at yahoo you send an email and usually get a delayed automated response. I don't care for Head to head as well but the price point debate is worse in my opinion. I think the NFBC has done and is doing a fine job of growing the business. Look at the growth year over year and now with the exposure from the SiriusXM/Rotowire deal it will continue to grow. Imagine the headaches of people b**tching and m**ning on these boards with 100's if not 1,000's of $25 customers. Not worth the headache. What's the profitability of running a $25 league. (set-up, monitoring draft, and servicing for the full season?) I want Greg and STATS to remain profitable. We've seen many companies fail with bad business models so I don't mind them getting their fair share for the best game. Keep up the great work

Jason

[Steel Lugnuts]

Good points RSN (and probably why Greg and Tom haven't added smaller paying leagues to this point), but 1000's of $25 paying customers could be a good thing for the NFBC, especially if half turn into $150 paying customers down the road.

"I'll do you a favor and make sure I don't join any of your Yahoo H2H leagues Lug!!!!!"

Thanks for the heads up Cobb, although I'm not in any Yahoo leagues, just a neighborhood commish league on cbs, and their are no openings...plus you wouldn't be invited anyway.

[ToddZ]

It's the randomness of the head to head scheduling that will be the turn-off for the high stakes crowd. Just take a trip over to the NFFC forums and check out the threads, year after year about how scheduling favors some teams so the best teams don't always makes the playoffs. The NFFC has a very fair way of dealing with it, setting a points threshold for wild card teams to make the playoffs (at least in the overall) so I would assume that would be the case in the NFBC (hypothetically) as well. But then, it really just becomes a points competition.

This assumes we're talking head to head points and not categories, but then I don't know how you'd have an overall contest without using points. H2H roto wouldn't work for the overall unless it was an all-play format and now we're getting too confusing.

Now, if the question is whether the NFBC can consider some non-roto leagues, that is a points league where each stat gets some points added or taken away, that's a different question and can be done without the randomness of head to head scheduling. In fact, by using points, you can even do a draft and hold league where the computer plays your best players and you don't have to set your lineups ever, like draft champions in football.

[Rog]

In our local league we just switched from head to head back to roto after 3 years. Way to much luck involved in head to head. In roto if I draft Ryan Braun I am expecting 33 hr's and 20 steals. I dont care when he does it just as long as at the end of the season those are his stats. In head to head 3 hrs in one week and none in the next kills you. We actually went with head to head for the regular season and then all play for the playoffs. No matter what it always seemed as if the best team never won.

[Steel Lugnuts]

"In fact, by using points, you can even do a draft and hold league where the computer plays your best players and you don't have to set your lineups ever, like draft champions in football."

This is an interesting idea.

I also think a cut-line would be pretty cool. You can have, say, the top 3 or 4-teams from each league with the most points after week 20 go into the Main Bracket, where there would be a cut-line (those above 300pts would advance to next week, below 300pts and you drop down to the Next Bracket, or just get eliminated). Then do the same thing for week 21, with the cut-line going higher, etc...untill there are a top 12 teams. These 12 teams go to Vegas for the final week, most points scored that week wins the big $.

I'm in a football league similar to this, and it works great, every point scored, you see your team either move up or down past the cut line, gets pretty crazy. Can't see why it wouldn't work in baseball, although I'm sure this wouldn't go over well with the die-hard roto leaguers. LOL

Of course it would have to be hosted at something like, http://nfbc.stats.com/totalpoints or /cutline, just to keep it completely separate from the current roto format.

[DOUGHBOYS]

A little like a player at high stakes Texas Hold 'Em asking players to change the game and play lesser stakes.

[Steel Lugnuts]

A little like a player at high stakes Texas Hold 'Em asking players to change the game and play lesser stakes.

Although the high stakes Texas Hold 'Em players still play at their own table, they wouldn't let a small buy-in play along. The $25 or $50 satellite leagues would play in thier own little league, no chance at the big payout.

I guess you can liken it to a country-club membership, pay the big fee to join or you can't get in in the club.

[DOUGHBOYS]

It's amusing how you reply to each contributor of your thread.
Get your back away from the wall already

[Steel Lugnuts]

It's amusing how you reply to each contributor of your thread.
Get your back away from the wall already

You mean like this? LOL

Hey, the wife is at work and the kid is out causing trouble somewhere, I'm in round 45 in one draft and not picking again for awhile and waiting for my next draft to start tormorrow morning...I'm bored, so hanging on the board. Plus, I figured it would be rude of me "not" to reply if someone is taking the time to actually reply to my thread...or something like that.

OK, I'm done.

[BK METS]

Greg and Tom,

Please don't ever set up a league with less than a $150 price point. Imagine how many people you'd have with $25 entries. The post about yahoo/espn was spot on. One of the best parts of the NFBC is the customer service. If we have a problem or question we can actually talk to or email Greg and Tom. If you have a problem at yahoo you send an email and usually get a delayed automated response. I don't care for Head to head as well but the price point debate is worse in my opinion. I think the NFBC has done and is doing a fine job of growing the business. Look at the growth year over year and now with the exposure from the SiriusXM/Rotowire deal it will continue to grow. Imagine the headaches of people b**tching and m**ning on these boards with 100's if not 1,000's of $25 customers. Not worth the headache. What's the profitability of running a $25 league. (set-up, monitoring draft, and servicing for the full season?) I want Greg and STATS to remain profitable. We've seen many companies fail with bad business models so I don't mind them getting their fair share for the best game. Keep up the great work

Jason

Thanks Jason. You said exactly what I was thinking.

[BK METS]

You can pretty much be guaranteed that the NFBC will not have lesser priced leagues, though I wouldn't count out some kind of random satellite league, with a version of H2H, but seriously, I just don't see the point in wasting time and having a separate scoring system set up for this. As I said, if anyone wants to join an H2H league or a lower priced league, there are many options elsewhere. I cannot see why the NFBC would want to move away from what has made them successful for 10 years. Adding the masses of people playing H2H and low priced leagues is much more problem than its worth.

[PGromek]

"perhaps you'd be more comfortable at one of our lower-stakes tables"

[Steel Lugnuts]

You can pretty much be guaranteed that the NFBC will not have lesser priced leagues, though I wouldn't count out some kind of random satellite league, with a version of H2H, but seriously, I just don't see the point in wasting time and having a separate scoring system set up for this. As I said, if anyone wants to join an H2H league or a lower priced league, there are many options elsewhere. I cannot see why the NFBC would want to move away from what has made them successful for 10 years. Adding the masses of people playing H2H and low priced leagues is much more problem than its worth.

Yep, you are correct, there are a lot of H2H leagues out there, but none that are high-stakes, and none that are total points with a cut-line. Those that say how much of a problem it would be act like they will be doing all the work! LOL

I'm not saying it would be easy, but then again, I'm within a short-drive of the NFBC HQ and being in IT, perhaps I can help.

OK, this topic was fun...99.9% of the users here are Roto lifers, nothing like fighting a losing battle...David vs Goliath, Cubs vs the Yankees (or anyone)...their has to be at least one person of the hundreds of viewers to this discussion that agrees with me, no? Step up, think outside the box! Don't be afraid to get ripped on by your peers.

[BK METS]

No one is "ripping" you. Aren't you the same guy who complained you "sucked" at roto and posed this same question last summer and Greg said it wasn't going to happen here? So, now you bring up the same topic again and don't like the answers you get from those who have wasted time responding to you. Everyone has been very respectful. No one has said "get lost". We are just responding because we love the format we have here and don't feel there is a need for change. I am sure you can discuss with Greg to see if he changed his mind.