Roto Snips

[Glenneration X]

Lowy...you drive yourself down to Philadelphia.......and I will take you to a game....my treat......vs the mets...pick a date on the schedule. we can debate how good the lyon,marcum signings are and the looming overpay of michael bourn then.

I am assuming he snow on L.I. will be gone by then

We've been talking about a game together for a couple years now. This summer let's try to make it happen.

As far as assuming the snow will be gone by then, I wouldn't be so sure about that. It's pretty deep out there (and in here as well. ) In fact, I'm off to take my kids sledding on one of the numerous still unplowed side streets in my neighborhood. Stay dry and warm anyone who's also buried in the snow this weekend.

[BK METS]

Glenn, Yankee and Phils fans have to be extremely jealous of the Mets young talented pitching.. They won't admit to it, since they are still living in the past, with their 35+ "has beens", and their pitching that is falling apart, as we speak.

Harvey, Niese, Wheeler - DWright, D'Arnaud, Ike.... with less than half the salary as the big bad Yankees and Phils.. who, last time I checked, haven't won anything for a few years.

Maybe the Mets don't win for a few years... but I don't see anyone predicting much for the Yanks or Phils for many years to come, either. The rebuild starts next year, for both, if you are lucky.

[ALL-IN JD]

Rebuilding??? I don't think so. The word you are looking for is re-tooling!

BTW, with the Braves and Nationals in that division making the playoffs will be the least of your worries for years to come!!

[DOUGHBOYS]

By all means, carry on in this thread.
Love the conversation!

[ALL-IN JD]

Sorry Dan, can't help myself when Met fans are involved!!

[DOUGHBOYS]

Sorry Dan, can't help myself when Met fans are involved!!

No sorries needed!
Lovin' it!

[BK METS]

Rebuilding??? I don't think so. The word you are looking for is re-tooling!

BTW, with the Braves and Nationals in that division making the playoffs will be the least of your worries for years to come!!

Good luck "re-tooling" your entire roster! Cano and nothing else.... The Yankees were great, when they built from the farm system... once they started signing every big free agent, they haven't won much, have they?.. So you "re-tool" all you want, and you will continue to see the Orioles and the Rays and the A's pass you by... Its time to change the mentality that money can buy you a championship...

[BK METS]

2013 -

Orioles
Jays
Rays
Yankees
Sox

[JEagle]

The Yankees won in 2009....not so long ago.

[ALL-IN JD]

Alan,

Since the Mets will be on the "come" in the very near future and the Yankees are destined for the second division in the AL East, how about we make a little wager? Despite the realization that my beloved Yankees are on the way down and the "Amazins" are bound for glory, how about we bet win totals for both teams for the next 5 years, $100 a win? I realize the chances are that I will be "donating" to each year I think I am willing to take the risk. What do you say Met fan?

[Schwks]

BK, I believe that a package that Atlanta put together for the Dbacks would not have hurt the Mets farm at all. Delgado is destined to be a #4 starter IMO and that of many prospect evaluators. How much better is Prado then Murphy? The rest of the guys were non-elite prospects. That is why I think Upton would have been so great...another piece around Wright, Ike Travis. Bourn will be a bust no matter where he signs. That said, we are both rooting for Mets relevance sooner rather then later.

[76erfan]

are the braves and nats good? sure but the phillies arent chopped liver and everyone is writing them off. I love it when some of the experts on this board chime in that dont know the team.

lets review:
halladay,ruiz,utley all free agents end of year.....that means lots of free agent money to spend

they gathered tommy joseph, ethan martin in trades last year and added they are part of the future along with other high end arms in their system.

new tv deal is 2 years away which means lots of money to spend

they led the mlb in attendance last year...which means...you guessed it..more money to spend.

they didnt make the playoffs one of last 7 years and they are dead? guess the angels got nothing too.

here is another one for ya met fans..darin ruf hits more homers than your projected OF combined(with or without Bourn!). Who? You dont know who that is? yeah....good thing this isnt a keeper league then. you would not be good at that (if it wasnt just mets in the league)

phillies won the title in 2008, made it to world series in 2009......won division in 2010 and 2011 but got bounced 2nd round in 2010 and 1st round 2011. You can say thats a downward trend..but can also say you'd rather be in that spot then where the mets were.

they also played .600 winning pct ball once utley/howard came back. Do they need to be healthy to win this year? Sure....but most teams probably have to say that too

[rockitsauce]

are the braves and nats good? sure but the phillies arent chopped liver and everyone is writing them off. I love it when some of the experts on this board chime in that dont know the team.

lets review:
halladay,ruiz,utley all free agents end of year.....that means lots of free agent money to spend

they gathered tommy joseph, ethan martin in trades last year and added they are part of the future along with other high end arms in their system.

new tv deal is 2 years away which means lots of money to spend

they led the mlb in attendance last year...which means...you guessed it..more money to spend.

they didnt make the playoffs one of last 7 years and they are dead? guess the angels got nothing too.

here is another one for ya met fans..darin ruf hits more homers than your projected OF combined(with or without Bourn!). Who? You dont know who that is? yeah....good thing this isnt a keeper league then. you would not be good at that (if it wasnt just mets in the league)

phillies won the title in 2008, made it to world series in 2009......won division in 2010 and 2011 but got bounced 2nd round in 2010 and 1st round 2011. You can say thats a downward trend..but can also say you'd rather be in that spot then where the mets were.

they also played .600 winning pct ball once utley/howard came back. Do they need to be healthy to win this year? Sure....but most teams probably have to say that too

You tell 'em Andy !

btw Alan if 2008 is a long time ago what does that make 1986

and I agree w/ JD & NorCal, shoulda kept Dickey (he was a bargain) & J-Up would've been a difference maker.....Bourn ?

[76erfan]

you spend 4/60 on bourn....we got his equivalent but 10 years younger in revere for 500k for next 3 years....lol

[BK METS]

you spend 4/60 on bourn....we got his equivalent but 10 years younger in revere for 500k for next 3 years....lol

Revere = Bourn

The Phillies had exactly ONE player in the Baseball America top 100 prospects in 2012 - Trevor May, who they traded with Vance Worley, for Ben Revere - GO GET EM PHILS! Worse minor league organization in baseball, who will trade whatever is left in their organization next year, and have a 200 million team payroll, and still wont win.

[BK METS]

BK, I believe that a package that Atlanta put together for the Dbacks would not have hurt the Mets farm at all. Delgado is destined to be a #4 starter IMO and that of many prospect evaluators. How much better is Prado then Murphy? The rest of the guys were non-elite prospects. That is why I think Upton would have been so great...another piece around Wright, Ike Travis. Bourn will be a bust no matter where he signs. That said, we are both rooting for Mets relevance sooner rather then later.

http://www.amazinavenue.com/2013/1/15/3 ... ck-wheeler

The Mets tried to get Justin Upton, but were unwilling to part with Zach Wheeler, and I am fine with that. Its crazy that I am trying to defend the Mets, to a "Mets fan".

[BK METS]

Alan,

Since the Mets will be on the "come" in the very near future and the Yankees are destined for the second division in the AL East, how about we make a little wager? Despite the realization that my beloved Yankees are on the way down and the "Amazins" are bound for glory, how about we bet win totals for both teams for the next 5 years, $100 a win? I realize the chances are that I will be "donating" to each year I think I am willing to take the risk. What do you say Met fan?

I will contemplate that Jeff. I never bet on my own team and I think the Yankees could have 20 more wins than the Mets in 2013, so I would already be $2K in the hole.. but let me think about that.. and Jeff.. I don't hate the Yankees, like I hate the Phils. My boys met Derek Jeter last year and he was awesome with them, even though they were wearing Mets hats. He is a class act and same goes for Pettitte and Mariano. I think the Yanks need to realize that they built a dynasty on homegrown talent... and maybe they do need to start over. It wouldn't be the worst thing to trade guys like Teixeira, Granderson, and CC and maybe rebuild. Seriously.

[76erfan]

Alan,
Their prospects arent the worst but they are lower tier. They have some guys ready to help in neat future. By the way, may isnt anywhere near as good as biddle,pettibone,martin and morgan. They lost nothing there. They have done plenty of winning not sure why you ignore that fact. But you admitted you hate them ehich shows your bias. Payroll is 170 mill actually they went cheap tbis off season cuz they didnt like free agent crop.

And yes bourns value will decrease as he gets older. It happens. Revere was a very economical plan b

[rockitsauce]

I don't hate the Yankees, like I hate the Phils.

well of course you do Alan. Getting your ass kicked by a team for so long will breed animosity towards said team. Remember before the '07 season when JRoll had the audacity to declare the Phils were the team to beat, and then promptly went out and backed it up by winning the NL MVP ? Oh, that was so awesome. The fact that the Mutts had a historic collapse to help us capture that 1st of 5 straight NL East titles is just the cherry on top.

btw, just b/c Schwks has a diff. of opinion on how the Mets go about their biz doesn't make him any less of a fan of them than you. You may think b/c you've been a fan since blah, blah, blah that you're OPINION counts more than his, but you know what they say about opinions. Now I'm "defending" a Mutts fan from another Mutts fan

Oh, and as far as BANG for buck, give me Revere at $500K for the next 3 yrs over what you're hoping the Mutts pay Bourn all day babe. What is Bourn gonna do better, hit 4 more hr's ? You complain that you want your team to be competitive now (and I can dig that, you've sucked for so long it must hurt), but than don't want to part w/ a pitching prospect to get a stud like J-Up How do you know this Wheeler won't go the Van Poppel route ? J-Up has shown he's the real deal at the highest level. I only wish we'd got him and the Braves were the ones who took a shot on Delmon

[BK METS]

Actually, I never said I didn't want Justin Upton on the Mets. I was having a discussion with a Mets fan who said he wanted the Mets to stick to the plan of the past few years. He didn't want to sign Bourn but said we should trade for Justin Upton, which he said wouldn't have cost the Mets a top prospect and I copied the news release that stated Upton would have cost us Zach Wheeler and another prospect, which is opposite of "the plan". I would have done whatever possible to get Upton. They decided that giving up Wheeler+ wasn't worth it.

As far as the Yankees, I never hated the Yankees. You can talk smack all you want regarding how the Yankees kicked the Mets butts all of these years.. and you are right. I never disputed that. I rooted for the Yankees against the Phillies in the world series. My brother is a big Yankee fan. In December, Bernie Williams did a benefit concert here in Connecticut for the Sandy Hook school kids and it was awesome. Many of the Yankees were there. My kids got to meet a lot of them including Bernie and Jeter. The Yankees of the late 90s and early 2000s were a class act. Some really good guys and a great team. Its gone down hill over the past several years. They have brought up very little talent from their farm system, especially in the pitching department. Cano (and Jeter) is the only guy they should keep long term, in my opinion. They should rebuild. Its funny how the cocky Yankee and Phily fans like to talk about the past, but its over now. Its all about the future and the Mets is looking much brighter, at this point.

[BK METS]

Alan,
Their prospects arent the worst but they are lower tier. They have some guys ready to help in neat future. By the way, may isnt anywhere near as good as biddle,pettibone,martin and morgan. They lost nothing there. They have done plenty of winning not sure why you ignore that fact. But you admitted you hate them ehich shows your bias. Payroll is 170 mill actually they went cheap tbis off season cuz they didnt like free agent crop.

And yes bourns value will decrease as he gets older. It happens. Revere was a very economical plan b

As I said, May was the only Phily prospect in Baseball America top 100, and they traded him and Worley for Revere. If the Mets sign Bourn, it will be for cash... no prospects. Much better value, in my opinion.

[Edwards Kings]

Oh, and as far as BANG for buck, give me Revere at $500K for the next 3 yrs over what you're hoping the Mutts pay Bourn all day babe. What is Bourn gonna do better, hit 4 more hr's ?

Ummm...sorry old friend. It is a little more than that. Did you notice that in his first two full years (961 AB), Revere had a whopping 33 extra base hits. Not exactly gap power. Kind of a faster Rafael Belliard.

Fast? Absolutely.
Good D? No doubt.
Cheap? Yes.
Bang for the buck? Revere has all the pop of a flat Pepsi!

Just bustin' chops!

On another note, how are they gonna get Ruf's bat in that line-up with Howard "back" and Delmon sulking in left field? I liked what I saw in Ruf. He looks like the real deal to me.

[Captain Hook]

Wayne reportedly Delmon will suck in right field ........ Ruf will still have a chance to win the job or platoon in LF

[76erfan]

yup delmon to RF....dom brown and ruf a platoon in lf or one will win job outright.

[Sack]

Andy:

When you get GLENN X to commit to Philly, let me know. Chip and I would like to join you guys.
Any chance to take a few shots at you two guys and watch a live game would be a blast. As I posted on
another thread, the friends you make in these games are the best part. ( Outside of beating Massotto )

Getting up and looking out at all the snow, then seeing a baseball discussion with some of the
NFBC heavy hitters: Saxton, Lowy, Perry, Wayne Edwards, Dobies to name just a few gets the baseball
juices flowing once again. Good stuff guys.

O yeah, can't forget Alan Greenberg or Big Brother to Harry Crumb.