Need Explanation

[CASS]

Can someone explain how this could possibly be considered 2 ER?? 1st and 3rd no outs - steal of 2nd ok throwing error allows 1 run and runner to move up. Should have been 2nd and 3rd no runs in- then K, FC scores 1, sac bunt can not be considered to score a runner from 3rd can it?

Hunter Pence singles on a ground ball to shortstop Omar Quintanilla.
2.Brandon Belt singles on a line drive to right fielder Marlon Byrd. Hunter Pence to 3rd.
3.Brandon Crawford strikes out swinging.
With Guillermo Quiroz batting, Brandon Belt steals (4) 2nd base, Hunter Pence scores. Brandon Belt to 3rd. Throwing error by catcher Anthony Recker.
4.Guillermo Quiroz reaches on a fielder's choice, fielded by second baseman Daniel Murphy. Brandon Belt scores.
5.Barry Zito out on a sacrifice bunt, pitcher Dillon Gee to first baseman Josh Satin. Guillermo Quiroz to 2nd.
6.Gregor Blanco grounds out to first baseman Josh Satin.

[knuckleheads]

Cass, I think where you messed up was in drafting Dillon Gee. I hope this helps.

[CASS]

Haaa - fair enough i can't argue with that! Though he has been much better..in spite of him i do have 129.5 points

[DOUGHBOYS]

I'm worse, I started Zito

The first run is clearly an earned run. The second run being earned or not earned is solely up to the discretion of the official scorekeeper.
I can't read his mind in thinking that Zito's bunt was so good a guy on third would have scored or thinking something else.
To me, a squeeze play is a completely different play than 'he would have scored on that bunt', so I would not have made that second run an earned run. But like an umpire, that official scorekeeper's ruling, most likely, will not be changed.

[CASS]

Thanks Dough that was my feeling. Hopefully it's changed cause it seems just completely wrong.

[Captain Hook]

Can someone explain how this could possibly be considered 2 ER?? 1st and 3rd no outs - steal of 2nd ok throwing error allows 1 run and runner to move up. Should have been 2nd and 3rd no runs in- then K, FC scores 1, sac bunt can not be considered to score a runner from 3rd can it?

Hunter Pence singles on a ground ball to shortstop Omar Quintanilla.
2.Brandon Belt singles on a line drive to right fielder Marlon Byrd. Hunter Pence to 3rd.
3.Brandon Crawford strikes out swinging.
With Guillermo Quiroz batting, Brandon Belt steals (4) 2nd base, Hunter Pence scores. Brandon Belt to 3rd. Throwing error by catcher Anthony Recker.
4.Guillermo Quiroz reaches on a fielder's choice, fielded by second baseman Daniel Murphy. Brandon Belt scores.
5.Barry Zito out on a sacrifice bunt, pitcher Dillon Gee to first baseman Josh Satin. Guillermo Quiroz to 2nd.
6.Gregor Blanco grounds out to first baseman Josh Satin.

Sorry I may have misread this but the runs are still earned

As Dan said there may be some question about the scorer's thought process BUT the machine where all plays are input by MLB would have raised a question IF there was one.

[CASS]

point was the official scorer was incorrect in his judgement in my opinion. How does a non sac bunt score a runner from 3rd? it doesn't....cause the runner wouldn't be breaking. Bad job by the official scorer

[Captain Hook]

Here is the official play by play

1.Hunter Pence singles on a ground ball to shortstop Omar Quintanilla.
2.Brandon Belt singles on a line drive to right fielder Marlon Byrd. Hunter Pence to 3rd.
3.Brandon Crawford strikes out swinging.
With Guillermo Quiroz batting, Brandon Belt steals (4) 2nd base, Hunter Pence scores. Brandon Belt to 3rd. Throwing error by catcher Anthony Recker.
4.Guillermo Quiroz reaches on a fielder's choice, fielded by second baseman Daniel Murphy. Brandon Belt scores.
5.Barry Zito out on a sacrifice bunt, pitcher Dillon Gee to first baseman Josh Satin. Guillermo Quiroz to 2nd.
6.Gregor Blanco grounds out to first baseman Josh Satin.

Now for OS point of view (remembering that he doesn't give a shit about your fantasy team OR Gee's ERA)
runners at 1st and 3rd with one out
stolen base would put runners at 2nd and 3rd
FC would score Pence and move Belt to 3rd with still one out
Belt scored on the FC which did NOT produce an out (Murphy threw home and runner was safe)
which is why the scorer credited the run as earned as he might have scored on Zito's sac (or there might not have been one with runners on first and third in which case he could have scored on an infield out)


YES it is a judgment call but it is NOT wrong you just want a different result

[knuckleheads]

FC would score Pence and move Belt to 3rd with two out
sac bunt scores Belt

I can't say if Cass is right or wrong, but I know a sac bunt with two out doesn't do anything but end the inning.

[Captain Hook]

FC would score Pence and move Belt to 3rd with two out
sac bunt scores Belt

I can't say if Cass is right or wrong, but I know a sac bunt with two out doesn't do anything but end the inning.

NOT two out - see above

[knuckleheads]

FC would score Pence and move Belt to 3rd with two out
sac bunt scores Belt

I can't say if Cass is right or wrong, but I know a sac bunt with two out doesn't do anything but end the inning.

NOT two out - see above

Now you're changing your story. With score keeping like that Captain, Cass would be all over you...

[Captain Hook]

LOL yeah I understand but I did not score this play, and didn't comprehend the actual play until I went to game day and got the play by play - it's a lot different when you do it "live" than looking without the code at the box score or play by play and don't have the scorer's notes/reasons.

[CASS]

The play by play i listed clearly above Captain - right from game day. The issue is how does a bunt (non squeez i watched the game) result in assuming the run scores for 3rd...it's clearly wrong but i doubt it changes...que sera sera.

[CASS]

Guess I'm not crazy... Since ROTOWORLD just wrote the following which semi addresses it. but not the BUNT

It's no big deal or anything, but scoring (and rules) in baseball can be a funny thing. Like last night in the game in San Francisco. In an inning that featured a throw into center field and a poor throw at the plate, Dillon Gee gave up two earned runs. With the team throwing the ball around like a little league team, the runs were still earned. Take those two away, and Gee is on his way to slowly whittling down that ERA. Add em in, and he's still got that bad ERA. I guess it can happen when you put balls in play, but that's a subjective scoring decision that meant a difference in a few people's lives.

[DOUGHBOYS]

Guess I'm not crazy... Since ROTOWORLD just wrote the following which semi addresses it. but not the BUNT

It's no big deal or anything, but scoring (and rules) in baseball can be a funny thing. Like last night in the game in San Francisco. In an inning that featured a throw into center field and a poor throw at the plate, Dillon Gee gave up two earned runs. With the team throwing the ball around like a little league team, the runs were still earned. Take those two away, and Gee is on his way to slowly whittling down that ERA. Add em in, and he's still got that bad ERA. I guess it can happen when you put balls in play, but that's a subjective scoring decision that meant a difference in a few people's lives.

Typical RotoWorld in their overstatement though. Gee's ERA sucks no matter if those two runs are earned or unearned.

I called a friend at MILB. They have the same program used for earned runs as MLB does.
He said that most scorekeepers feel they are obligated to make that second run, earned. A sacrifice bunt moved a runner up, this triggers the thought that all runners would have advanced.
I am a little more of a maverick and would have used my score keeping powers to make the second run unearned in feeling that a squeeze is a completely different play than a sacrifice bunt.
Perry (Captain) and the San Francisco scorekeeper are actually in the majority in ruling the second run earned.
Sorry, I know this does not help your case, but thought I'd give you more insight.

[KJ Duke]

Cass, I think where you messed up was in drafting Dillon Gee. I hope this helps.

Last 7 starts prior to this game ... 2.57/1.14 with 9.1K and 1.7BB per 9 ratios. Those starts came after some early health problems which aren't entirely gone, but reportedly improved around the time he starting pitching well. One bad outing in that stretch with dominant numbers in the others.

[CASS]

Thanks for the input - I get that's how it is. But obviously it does make sense from a logic standpoint - there is a difference between a runner moving up on a sacrifice - ball is nowhere near the advancing base hence the sac. Vs a sac with a runner on 3rd has pretty much a 2% chance of scoring a runner not going on contact - common sense would say 98% that runner does not score...which makes the ruling standard completely wrong. Scoring is supposed to be logical expectations..in this case it fails badly.

[CASS]

And as KJ just eluded to - Gee has been excellent for a while now...47 over last 47 innings. not good excellent....and 5 inf singles from this past game tells the real story...it's always best to watch games vs just reading pitching lines/stats.

[DOUGHBOYS]

Thanks for the input - I get that's how it is. But obviously it does make sense from a logic standpoint - there is a difference between a runner moving up on a sacrifice - ball is nowhere near the advancing base hence the sac. Vs a sac with a runner on 3rd has pretty much a 2% chance of scoring a runner not going on contact - common sense would say 98% that runner does not score...which makes the ruling standard completely wrong. Scoring is supposed to be logical expectations..in this case it fails badly.

I agree and feel the system does need a few changes.
At the same time, with the fantasy baseball rage, it is dangerous to put more discretion in scorekeeper's hands.
In this case, I agree with you and would have ruled the second run unearned.
Even though it is the common sense thing to do, it's a guarantee that somebody who is battling a Gee owner for first place would question my integrity. And, they would have every right to do so.

[knuckleheads]

Cass, I think where you messed up was in drafting Dillon Gee. I hope this helps.

Last 7 starts prior to this game ... 2.57/1.14 with 9.1K and 1.7BB per 9 ratios. Those starts came after some early health problems which aren't entirely gone, but reportedly improved around the time he starting pitching well. One bad outing in that stretch with dominant numbers in the others.

But now he's been rocked in 2 of his last 4 starts. Which is exactly what Dillon Gee does. Good start/bad start. Repeat.

He's unrosterable. That's not a word, but Dillon Gee is it. Those last seven starts may look good, but I am willing to bet more than half of Gee owners had him benched for that May 30, 12K gem at Yankee Stadium. His 3 games prior to that start, Gee allowed 13 ER, 29 base runners in 14 IP. Anybody who has the brains/guts/insanity to start him at Yankee Stadium after those three bombs is either a genius/bad ass/moron.