NFBC Last Minute Signups

SoonerC · Post by **SoonerC** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 6:59 am

Rocky, do I understand you correctly in that people were separated from each other if requested? I thought this was a luck of the draw deal and that you put all 180 names or whatever it was in a hat and the first 15 pulled were put in league 1. I'm not complaining and I'm looking forward to playing regardless, but that truly is the only fair way to do a contest like this.

SoonerC · Post by **SoonerC** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 7:00 am

Just to clarify, obviously you would have had to group the names by city before drawing them.

Dyv · Post by **Dyv** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 7:10 am

Originally posted by SoonerC:

Just to clarify, obviously you would have had to group the names by city before drawing them. Sooner - I trust me, but it looks right now that in the guaranteed list from League 12 there are 2 other people in that league that I know and have known for years.

I can go H2H with them, but what if in the blind draw we end up with picks #13, #14 and #15 by simple random luck.

Would you rather we take those picks and you hope we don't work together in any fashion or would you rather Greg/Rocky/Etc. shuffle us up with the same picks in different leagues?

Like I said - I trust me, but if I pull down $100k or even the league money in this contest I don't want to hear a single word about collusion or favoritism.

I'd rather we shuffle randomly if need be to accomodate obvious relationships but I can see both sides.

Greg will make the call and I will play with whatever he decides. You don't know me and I don't take anyone questioning integrity personally, but there's a compromise here somewhere that can work with the least amount of interference.

In my conversation with Greg he told me there was ZERO league shuffling in the original draw of the first 11 leagues posted yesterday. Everything spread out by random draw and nobody has to worry about conflicts. Now today is a different matter, because there's possibly going to be 2-3 other people who sign up late and there could conceivably be 6 people in one league that know each other.

Again, I trust me - but other than closing out a league and refunding money how do we recommend they fix the problem?

Dyv

SoonerC · Post by **SoonerC** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 7:14 am

Dyv, I'm with you in that I trust Greg totally and will certainly abide by whatever he decides. My point was that I thought Rocky had basically said league shuffling had happened when I know Greg had said it would be random. I'm sure Greg will straighten all this out when he gets there, as if he needs something else to do. I was just saying that in my opinion for future years, because of the grand prize coming from a group of leagues, the only truly fair way to do this is to put all the names in a hat by city and let the chips fall where they may regardless of how it ends up.

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 7:21 am

As always guys, we appreciate the comments. One of the strengths of this event, in my opinion, is we have always listened to what you guys are thinking and this event will be a strong one in large part to the insight and commentary you have all taken the time to offer. We don't take your comments lightly by any means. I'm sure you already know that.

The key thing here is as I said earlier and Rocky reiterated, there will be no issues of collusion or things of that nature. The main point is we did not want to turn people away who signed up on time which is why we're working so diligently to put together the 13th league. But as part of that process, we are taking every step necessary to ensure the integrity of the event is not compromised in any way.

Dyv · Post by **Dyv** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 7:25 am

Originally posted by SoonerC:

Dyv, I'm with you in that I trust Greg totally and will certainly abide by whatever he decides. My point was that I thought Rocky had basically said league shuffling had happened when I know Greg had said it would be random. I'm sure Greg will straighten all this out when he gets there, as if he needs something else to do. I was just saying that in my opinion for future years, because of the grand prize coming from a group of leagues, the only truly fair way to do this is to put all the names in a hat by city and let the chips fall where they may regardless of how it ends up. Sooner - I'm good with that, too... just so it's done in such a fashion that nobody can question the integrity of the process and the integrity of each team managing to their fullest ability. Nobody's going to hold any punches in this contest... but I can understand if I were someone out there having a good time and there was this Leaderboard group of guys who know each other I'd have to at least consider the issues.

To referesh those that don't know us... Leaderboard is a group of about 125 people... I keep saying guys because only guys are heading to Vegas from the group, but we have several female members, too! We trade about 2000 emails per month on anything sports and fantasy sports related... we play mostly on ESPN and compete in their 'Uber' contest for all around fantasy games ranking. A few of us have met in previous contests in Vegas, but most have never met in person. This is a convention of sorts for us as well as a vacation and a way to enjoy a hobby we all are addicted to. Everyone is paying for their own teams and nobody is sharing any results of anyone else's team's winnings.

I'll put that in writing and sign it if someone needs it

To me - it's far better to have these conversations NOW than worry about them next week. So hope everyone asks or voices their concerns and I will answer for my part.

I've never met, Greg - talked to him on the phone for the first time over the weekend and he owes me nothing and I owe him nothing. He just happens to have a product we want!

I trust Greg to take care of it - and if anyone doesn't trust him and Krause you might question why you plunked down your cash

Dave

Mr. LBN - Jeff Price · Post by **Mr. LBN - Jeff Price** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 7:26 am

My concerns are twofold:

1) Why have a deadline that leaves you in a position to treat one league differently than the rest. ALL leagues should be handled consistently. Don't give me a deadline and then chastise for managing to it.

2) I feel really bad for Dyv not having a chance to win his league. He has never won a baseball league in which I've participated. That goes for a lot of folks, but given Dyv's overall baseball success, it is a point of pride for me. Don't worry, Dave, 2nd place money is pretty good.

jp

Dyv · Post by **Dyv** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 7:27 am

Originally posted by Mr. LBN - Jeff Price:

My concerns are twofold:

1) Why have a deadline that leaves you in a position to treat one league differently than the rest. ALL leagues should be handled consistently. Don't give me a deadline and then chastise for managing to it.

2) I feel really bad for Dyv not having a chance to win his league. He has never won a baseball league in which I've participated. That goes for a lot of folks, but given Dyv's overall baseball success, it is a point of pride for me. Don't worry, Dave, 2nd place money is pretty good.

jp Jeff, I would gladly make this a hockey league if you want a piece of me... damn you and your luck. Errr, I meant skill.

Dyv

FresnoFanatics · Post by **FresnoFanatics** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 9:04 am

Hi All,

My two cents. I too have participated on ESPN for years...though I am not a leaderboard person I have won a couple of leagues over the years, though never well enough to be in the overall leaderboard and I usually stick closely to baseball. I have also been in leagues where collussion is obvious and ESPN does nada.

I therefore would like to voice a high degree of agreement for Dyv's plan. I think that since it is draft position that everyone needed to know and not league makeup....when 13 is done shuffle the leagues but keep the draft spots the same. regardless it appears we have two mixed leagues and two table drafting on the phones so what?

By shuffling the leagues you deal with even the slight impression of possible collussion. Otherwise imho the leagues and draft spots should have all been delayed until the 13 league was finished...by passing the deadline set by Krause they (who have gone above and beyond to make this a quality game) created the problem and I for one am sure they will figure a fair way to fix it beyond their personal assurances which I have no reason to doubt but do understand they can only speak for themselves and not the possible cheaters that could be lurking.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 9:25 am

I'm glad I wasn't the only one a little concerned about this league 13 thing.

I too truly believe the chances of any collusion is miniscule at best and I am pumped up for Saturday, however why not placate the masses?

I also back DYV or DVY's plan of reshuffling leagues while keeping the all important draft positions intact. I could care less about the league #, it's the draft position that's count..

Even though the worst part about unlucky league 13 is it has decreased all of our chances of winning by about 8%!!

viper · Post by **viper** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 9:39 am

From all these posts, one thing is a bit unclear to me. What was the exact count at the published deadline? I assume that several, if not more than half, of this 13th league had made the deadline. If only one or two made it, then I'm not sure if they should not understand that signing up late meant the possibility of missing out. Everyone knew that signing up late meant you may miss out on the event. I realize that Krause wants the most possible teams. The downside to this last league could be a single year event. Unfortunately, this 13th league's draft will likely be over analyzed and will possibly create a problem if there is any unusal selections even if they were made honestly.

I trust Greg to make the right call. As far as swapping around leagues but maintaining your same draft position, this might work if Greg and his crew deem it a needed action. It was random which league we got into and this would also be random. Like another said, the key so far was knowing where we drafted on the grid. I don't know a soul in my league anyways. Another CREATiVESPORTS guy is in it but we have never met. To me, he is another Joe/Brian.

Cellar Dwellers · Post by **Cellar Dwellers** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 9:41 am

I don't think the leagues that have been picked already should be changed at all. I'm not the least bit worried about collusion in a league #13. That sh*t always backfires if anyone was going to try it anyway. If you start switching the original leagues around, how do you know that people don't just want to get in a different league because they saw the competition they will be up against in the assigned league they're in now?

Top Dawg · Post by **Top Dawg** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 9:51 am

I have to disagree strongly on the "reshuffling" concept. I think the first 11 leagues were done fair and square and with the Leader Borad gang as large as it is, you are going to have a couple of them in each league anyway. I've never seen a draft posted by leagues only to "reshuffle" the teams. For another thing, I've already done a lot of preparation based on the players posted to my league (ie, where they are from, possible hometown favorites. "experts" etc.) To me, that's work well spent and I'll be darned if I go along with having to do that part of my preparation again.

The problem seems to be that we are attempting to fill a league after the deadline. To that end I would simply say refund the leftover people and suggest they apply sooner next year. It's been discussed here for quite sometime that we weren't going to get an "EXACT" number of entrants to fill and "EXACT" number of leagues. The assumption has always been to apply soon enough to make sure you fill a league.

If we continue to fill a 13th league, then I'll agree with the final 30 people being randomly assigned to two "mixed leagues". I will not be happy with a "reshuffling" of the 11 leagues already intact. Many of us have already started chatting and boasting and making buddy-buddy on the boards. That's half the fun, isn't it?

Pete

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 9:52 am

Originally posted by viper:

From all these posts, one thing is a bit unclear to me. What was the exact count at the published deadline? I assume that several, if not more than half, of this 13th league had made the deadline. viper, as stated earlier, we did not have any late sign-ups. What we had was an incomplete number for a 13th league after the deadline passed. Rather than refunding money, we have been working to fill up that 13th league so that everyone who signed up on time will be part of the event. Hope this helps answer your question.

Top Dawg · Post by **Top Dawg** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 9:58 am

Cellar - Good point. I have a feeling some of the people wanting a "reshuffle" just don't like the league they are in.

In addition, I have pick 3 and personally know someone in another NYC league with pick 4. I don't need to have anyone think we're cheating the system if we get reshuffled in the same league picking 3 and 4. I'm glad he's in a different league. Lets toss out the idea of reshuffling, OK?

Pete

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 10:01 am

Originally posted by Top Dawg:

I have to disagree strongly on the "reshuffling" concept. For another thing, I've already done a lot of preparation based on the players posted to my league (ie, where they are from, possible hometown favorites. "experts" etc.) To me, that's work well spent and I'll be darned if I go along with having to do that part of my preparation again. BS

Dyv · Post by **Dyv** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 10:02 am

Originally posted by Top Dawg:

Cellar - Good point. I have a feeling some of the people wanting a "reshuffle" just don't like the league they are in.

In addition, I have pick 3 and personally know someone in another NYC league with pick 4. I don't need to have anyone think we're cheating the system if we get reshuffled in the same league picking 3 and 4. I'm glad he's in a different league. Lets toss out the idea of reshuffling, OK?

Pete Whatever works best is fine by me.

The notion that we have figured out our leaguemates is kinda silly, isn't it?

Alright - maybe there's an obvious strategy someone likes, but wouldn't it mess you up if they change their strategies this year?

The only thing I know for sure is I'm going to Vegas in 2 days and this damn snow in Michigan is pissing me off.

Greg will probably put down the ruling here shortly

Dave

viper · Post by **viper** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 10:02 am

Was the incomplete count 1 or 13 or what?

I understand the desire to fill a 13th league. But it needs to be understood that this event has got to where it is based on the honestly and fairness exhibited by Greg and other running this event. The ice is a bit thinner out where you all are walking right now.

I have to agree with those recent posts against shifting leagues. Being in NY, I am pretty sure there are more Yankee fans than Seattle supporters. But in Vegas, the story is different and I too would have looked to see where the opposition is located if I was going to Vegas. Moveing them around is not right and just moving around Chicago and NY is equally wrong. Let's hope the Ice holds.

Bottom line is that I trust Greg and will accept whatever happens. Like most, I am psyched by this whole thing. 45 people competed in the WCOFB last year and they alone know what it will be like competing for big dollars. For the rest of us, the adventure starts on Saturday . .I may use that line in a soon to be written artive.

Cellar Dwellers · Post by **Cellar Dwellers** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 10:03 am

Top Dawg-Just got off the phone with Rocky and any reshuffeling will not be done in NY anyway, probably Vegas, if at all. I'm pretty sure you're in a NY league, right?

Dyv · Post by **Dyv** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 10:06 am

Originally posted by viper:

Was the incomplete count 1 or 13 or what?

I understand the desire to fill a 13th league. But it needs to be understood that this event has got to where it is based on the honestly and fairness exhibited by Greg and other running this event. The ice is a bit thinner out where you all are walking right now.

I have to agree with those recent posts against shifting leagues. Being in NY, I am pretty sure there are more Yankee fans than Seattle supporters. But in Vegas, the story is different and I too would have looked to see where the opposition is located if I was going to Vegas. Moveing them around is not right and just moving around Chicago and NY is equally wrong. Let's hope the Ice holds.

Bottom line is that I trust Greg and will accept whatever happens. Like most, I am psyched by this whole thing. 45 people competed in the WCOFB last year and they alone know what it will be like competing for big dollars. For the rest of us, the adventure starts on Saturday . .I may use that line in a soon to be written artive. We should all be so lucky that someone shows up at the draft in a Tampa Bay Devil Rays jersey, a Devil Ray hat and has a pen that sings 'Go Devil Rays' every time he writes with it. But I'm going to go out on a limb here and let ya know that if you think someone is going to pick Rocco Baldelli in round 1 because he's 'got to have his boy' then please share whatever you're smoking.

The number I heard for the 'overage' going into league 13 was 9 teams.

Dyv

nnoy · Post by **nnoy** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 10:11 am

You can pass some of that Rocco Baldelli s**t this way too. Anyone that pops down $1250 and doesn't go straight chalk for the first few rounds has to be on something.

viper · Post by **viper** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 10:13 am

Nine is probably worth giving it a shot but the cutoff probably should have been Monday. Then again, it's not my money - or maybe it is.

I'll be glad when we are just posting about baseball.

Cellar Dwellers · Post by **Cellar Dwellers** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 10:27 am

Damn, there goes my Tampa Bay hat and jersey idea

viper · Post by **viper** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 10:47 am

Does the "D" in Dyv stand for demented?? Could be a teams name like "Demented young vagabonds" He has been begging the question of what it stood for and I figured someone should make a guess.

Top Dawg · Post by **Top Dawg** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 11:00 am

Cellar - Not sure if we are in the same NYC League. I'm in league 1, pick 2. Are you in 1? If so, what pick? I haven't seen you post to the league 1 page yet.

As for those who doubt I already spent a fair amount of time researching where some of my league mates are from, you are wrong. I know how many come from Boston, RI, Fla and NY/NJ; to the best of what I can gather. That actually comes in handy with the big rivalry the Yanks and Red Sox have. I've also started reading some of the articles an "expert" in my league has written on a fantasy website.

You prepare your way, I'll prepare my way; Gordon G.

Pete