Draft Prep List

[Glenneration X]

Still the same problem Glenn it takes too long to edit the list to make it usable. Maybe if you could get rid of the 800 guys that nobody drafts even in the 50 rounders would help but it not gonna happen so me thinking About doing another online or sat draft is probably not gonna happen either, always end up with one or 2 picks I don't want, f'n with the que or getting the shitty draft room to work right. the Adp is the only viable list I see Stats has so that was a logical place to start as it would take minimal time to get it usable but the vets are paranoid that the newbies could gain an advantage which I think is just total bullshit.

You know Champ, I don't even look at the default list when I draft online, so I'm probably not the right guy to argue this any further. I utilize other tools to decide who I want to draft in any particular round and only use the draft room search feature to find that player when it's time to draft him. So I'll let those who actually use this default list continue this debate if they so choose. I've belabored my points enough.

[Bama]

I don't reallhy use it a whole lot but when the draft room gets locked up are you get knocked off and it takes the first guy on the default list then it does matter. always like to load my que but its impossinble to do that and follow the draft at the same time with the crappy list.

[Yah Mule]

Read the original poster's request that the draft prep list should be defaulted to current ADP. That is what he is requesting. No one does that. Not even the big sites. They do last year's stats, at best. Drafts are continually going on from early November until April. The pre-set rankings are there from the beginning of November and the only thing that changes is adding new players such as rookies. If they choose to use rankings based upon last year's stats, that is fine, but by the time March comes along, that is really not worth much. The only solution is to import your own list.

This is incorrect. CBS lets you pre-rank using their abominably bad defaults, which are established by some apparently dartboard-based algorithm. However, they also allow you the option of using the current ADP as your default rankings. Anybody with any sense used the ADP list as the foundation of their own rankings.

Of course, here, Greg and Tom listen to and participate in debates over proposed format changes. There you wait 48 hours for a form email telling you to go pound sand.

[Deadheadz]

Still the same problem Glenn it takes too long to edit the list to make it usable. Maybe if you could get rid of the 800 guys that nobody drafts even in the 50 rounders would help but it not gonna happen so me thinking About doing another online or sat draft is probably not gonna happen either, always end up with one or 2 picks I don't want, f'n with the que or getting the shitty draft room to work right. the Adp is the only viable list I see Stats has so that was a logical place to start as it would take minimal time to get it usable but the vets are paranoid that the newbies could gain an advantage which I think is just total bullshit.

You do know you'd only have to do the list once right?
As soon as you save your custom rankings, you have the ability to switch leagues and import your custom rankings to newer leagues.

Sounds like doing that first list will get easier next week too.

[Bama]

Still the same problem Glenn it takes too long to edit the list to make it usable. Maybe if you could get rid of the 800 guys that nobody drafts even in the 50 rounders would help but it not gonna happen so me thinking About doing another online or sat draft is probably not gonna happen either, always end up with one or 2 picks I don't want, f'n with the que or getting the shitty draft room to work right. the Adp is the only viable list I see Stats has so that was a logical place to start as it would take minimal time to get it usable but the vets are paranoid that the newbies could gain an advantage which I think is just total bullshit.

You do know you'd only have to do the list once right?
As soon as you save your custom rankings, you have the ability to switch leagues and import your custom rankings to newer leagues.

Sounds like doing that first list will get easier next week too.

I know this and have done spent 3 plus hours f'n with it and it still not worth using. Don't plan on spending anymore time with the list. I have got to where I do what glenn does and just type the guys name in but the last draft I did I got 2 players I had no intention of owning because the draft locked up or the que messed up which destroyed an otherwise nice draft so im a little bitter I guess and was thinking about doing more but ill probably just pass.

[BK METS]

Read the original poster's request that the draft prep list should be defaulted to current ADP. That is what he is requesting. No one does that. Not even the big sites. They do last year's stats, at best. Drafts are continually going on from early November until April. The pre-set rankings are there from the beginning of November and the only thing that changes is adding new players such as rookies. If they choose to use rankings based upon last year's stats, that is fine, but by the time March comes along, that is really not worth much. The only solution is to import your own list.

This is incorrect. CBS lets you pre-rank using their abominably bad defaults, which are established by some apparently dartboard-based algorithm. However, they also allow you the option of using the current ADP as your default rankings. Anybody with any sense used the ADP list as the foundation of their own rankings.

Of course, here, Greg and Tom listen to and participate in debates over proposed format changes. There you wait 48 hours for a form email telling you to go pound sand.

That is obviously a change since I last drafted at CBS many years ago. ADP was never an option. They used to have draft "averages" but it wasn't an option when ranking players. You could use their "expert" rankings or rank players yourselves. I suppose I have been away too long....

[Deadheadz]

I know this and have done spent 3 plus hours f'n with it and it still not worth using. Don't plan on spending anymore time with the list. I have got to where I do what glenn does and just type the guys name end but the last draft I did I got 2 players I had no intention of owning because the draft locked up or the que messed up which destroyed an otherwise nice draft so im a little bitter I guess and was thinking about doing more but ill probably just pass.

Maybe doing it all at on sitting is what's beating you up. I couldn't get through more than 150-200 before I needed a break.
I just hit Save Rankings and came back the next day to do another 100 or so. Overall it didn't take more than 4 hours total combined.

A big time saver is the button that lets you move a player 10 places at a time and the option to move a player from 1600 to the top of the list where it doesn't take as long to move him down to the 300-500 range.

I've done it once and now it needs only a tweak here and there once or twice a week after players like Hamels and Iwakuma fall.

Again, NEXT WEEK this will be a whole different discussion since there will be changes we haven't seen yet. Maybe loading your own rankings will be so easy you won't care anymore?

[TParsons]

Still the same problem Glenn it takes too long to edit the list to make it usable. Maybe if you could get rid of the 800 guys that nobody drafts even in the 50 rounders would help but it not gonna happen so me thinking About doing another online or sat draft is probably not gonna happen either, always end up with one or 2 picks I don't want, f'n with the que or getting the shitty draft room to work right. the Adp is the only viable list I see Stats has so that was a logical place to start as it would take minimal time to get it usable but the vets are paranoid that the newbies could gain an advantage which I think is just total bullshit.

You do know you'd only have to do the list once right?
As soon as you save your custom rankings, you have the ability to switch leagues and import your custom rankings to newer leagues.

Sounds like doing that first list will get easier next week too.

I know this and have done spent 3 plus hours f'n with it and it still not worth using. Don't plan on spending anymore time with the list. I have got to where I do what glenn does and just type the guys name end but the last draft I did I got 2 players I had no intention of owning because the draft locked up or the que messed up which destroyed an otherwise nice draft so im a little bitter I guess and was thinking about doing more but ill probably just pass.

Not wanting to spend time on that gigantic ranking list,this is the route that I go as well. The draft room lockup and buggy search function has been an issue for as long as I can remember. It would be nice if this was made more efficient. All that being said, I've never had any issues in the past with making the mistake known in chat and getting admin in to remove the pick. In fact, I don't think I've ever had a year in doing the online Main that this did not have to be done at least once for one of the participants. I know it's obviously not ideal, but people are typically pretty understanding when it's a software issue. It sounds like the software and ability to modify personal rankings is the issue that needs to be addressed, not changing the default setup.

[Yah Mule]

Read the original poster's request that the draft prep list should be defaulted to current ADP. That is what he is requesting. No one does that. Not even the big sites. They do last year's stats, at best. Drafts are continually going on from early November until April. The pre-set rankings are there from the beginning of November and the only thing that changes is adding new players such as rookies. If they choose to use rankings based upon last year's stats, that is fine, but by the time March comes along, that is really not worth much. The only solution is to import your own list.

This is incorrect. CBS lets you pre-rank using their abominably bad defaults, which are established by some apparently dartboard-based algorithm. However, they also allow you the option of using the current ADP as your default rankings. Anybody with any sense used the ADP list as the foundation of their own rankings.

Of course, here, Greg and Tom listen to and participate in debates over proposed format changes. There you wait 48 hours for a form email telling you to go pound sand.

That is obviously a change since I last drafted at CBS many years ago. ADP was never an option. They used to have draft "averages" but it wasn't an option when ranking players. You could use their "expert" rankings or rank players yourselves. I suppose I have been away too long....

I spent many years over there. You had to take the good with the bad. I started playing satellite leagues @ NFBC in 2012, but this is the first time in over ten years I won't have any CBS teams at all. I miss the affordable NL Only and AL Only leagues and the easy functionality of their website, but I got sick of all the loopholes in the rules and other random nonsense.

Hopefully I'll be here long enough to become jaded about this place, too.

[American Pickers]

I can't believe how many really good players in these games are up in arms about making the ADP list a little more 'accessible' to all.

Every really good player is really good because they are willing to work at this game and work harder than the next guy.

By the way, anyone who thinks it's "harder" or a more difficult environment to draft online than live has never drafted live. Yet most of the "really good players" still try to draft live when possible. Imagine that.

Sounds like I struck a nerve, sorry. I guess the truth hurts. I think for me the most disappointing comment in this entire thread was when you said, "I'm also not a big fan of leveling the playing field any further than it already is." Why? If everyone is playing on a level playing field, doesn't the best player have the best chance of winning?

Maybe I misunderstood what you were saying. But it kind of came off like you were saying that more teams having access to knowledge of the ADP list would have a negative effect on your 'edge' in the games. I would hope that your 'edge' in the games comes from your aforementioned hard work, not from the fact that some players don't have as much knowledge of the ADP list as they should. Honestly, for the life of me, I can't see how a player of your caliber would give a rat's ass about what draft list, ADP or otherwise, that any other player would have access to (other than your own draft list, of course). In the final analysis, isn't it what players do with their draft list that counts?

In terms of what I was saying about online drafts being harder than live drafts, in terms of draft prep, I believe that is absolutely true. For online drafts, in addition to coming up with my draft list (the same as any player doing a live draft would do), which I do on an excel spreadsheet, I also have to manually transfer that draft list to an online Draft Prep list (which is totally different from my draft list) from which online drafters pick their players. This is a step that live draft players do not have to do. My frustration with having to manually move 400 players up and down the Draft Prep list is what led me to start this thread.

Since I don't consider myself a "really good player" (at least not yet), I suppose I am exempt from the enormous burden and responsibility of drafting in live drafts like actual "really good players" like you consider such a sacred trust. I "imagine that" you participate in live drafts because you enjoy the camaraderie of interacting with other players and you like the format. Me, I like the online game.

P.S.: I enjoyed your Baseball HQ column last season. Very insightful. Just wish the articles came more frequently.

[DOUGHBOYS]

Not up to Glenn S standards, but Updating this thread for those that don't want to read four to five pages....

American Pickers wants a defaulted adp list on the draft page
Bama agrees and hates the current f' ing list
Greg says adp is not up to NFBC and a new draft is coming soon
Bama doesn't like the current f' ing useless list
Dough thing an adp default would be mind-numbing
Edelman wants it by position
Glenn says an adp default would make for an uneven playing field
Gekko thinks adp default would make for lazy drafters
Bama hates spending hours with useless f ing players
Joe thinks the Champ is under pressure
MattJB says it would take 5 minutes to change players positions
Joe thinks it's amusing that vets do not want an adp default
Dough does not want adp to be spoon-fed to drafters
BK Mets did one list and uses it everywhere
Gekko says some players are hidden
American Pickers is amazed NFBC vets do not want adp default
Dough and Glenn are not
Gekko says 'Greg says no' so nah-ner-nah-ner
Mattjb says breaks are an advantage at live drafts
Gekko wants a break online
Glenn likes seeing live drafters in a bathroom, just not his
Glenn smokes
Dough does not, but would like an Online break
Joe likes American Pickers content and his right to impart opinions
Bama wants an adp default list if it means having a good f ing list
Joe likes the way Bama thinks
Bama just wants a good f ing list
Joe thinks like-minded vets make it hard for newer posters
Glenn disagrees
BK Mets does too
Bama just wants a good f 'ing list
Joe would like to see Glenn's ass in a 12 team draft
Glenn says he doesn't want his ass beaten by Joe again
Glenn doesn't really look at the draft list
Bama doesn't either, but would like a new f 'ing list
Ty reminds all that fixes are quick if the wrong player is taken
American Pickers says he doesn't know why a rat's ass is given and wants to read more of Glenn

[Likewhat17]

In terms of what I was saying about online drafts being harder than live drafts, in terms of draft prep, I believe that is absolutely true. For online drafts, in addition to coming up with my draft list (the same as any player doing a live draft would do), which I do on an excel spreadsheet, I also have to manually transfer that draft list to an online Draft Prep list (which is totally different from my draft list) from which online drafters pick their players. This is a step that live draft players do not have to do. My frustration with having to manually move 400 players up and down the Draft Prep list is what led me to start this thread.

I think this point here is one of the main points being debated. You believe that it's harder to draft online because of that extra element, but really it's more of a convenience factor for you.

You're correct in saying that you have to come up with your own draft list the same as anyone doing a live draft would do. You're incorrect when you say that you HAVE to manually transfer that draft list to an online draft prep list. Do the live drafters have the luxury of having an admin come by and cross of every player on their ranking lists when they are selected? You could simply print out your own list and cross off players as you go, the same as most live drafters.

What you want is the convenience of having your own list (the adp list) input there, so you conveniently have everything in one place and don't have to look back and forth between your personal list and the draft room. That's entirely understandable, and why many people do import their own rankings, but it's certainly not something that you must do, and in no way does that make drafting online any more difficult than drafting live.

Secondly, many of the "veterans" on this board have tried to clarify why having the ADP automatically listed as the default wouldn't be a good idea, but the main point doesn't seem to be getting through.

It's not about the "unprepared" owners having a ready-made cheatsheet with the most current ADP information right at their fingertips that is at the crux of the argument. As you pointed out, they have the same access to that list as anyone else, and can easily print it out on their own, or import it to the draft room the way that you want to. The argument, has to do with selection bias.

Regardless of how prepared you are, or most drafters are for that matter, selection bias 100% comes into play with any default list that is loaded there. Personally, I agree with Gekko in saying that the list should be listed in alphabetical order, or by last years stats.

I'm not trying to be hard on you AP, just trying to clear up some of the arguments that seem to be ongoing. Welcome to the boards, and best of luck this year.

[Money]

Dan, I'm not sure if humor was your intent or not, but I couldn't stop laughing as I read it.

[DOUGHBOYS]

Dan, I'm not sure if humor was your intent or not, but I couldn't stop laughing as I read it.

It was.
I re-read the thread this morning and found it all amusing. I thought a synopsis would make others smile.

[KJ Duke]

American Pickers wants a defaulted adp list on the draft page
Bama agrees and hates the current f' ing list
Greg says adp is not up to NFBC and a new draft is coming soon
Bama doesn't like the current f' ing useless list
Dough thing an adp default would be mind-numbing
Edelman wants it by position
Glenn says an adp default would make for an uneven playing field
Gekko thinks adp default would make for lazy drafters
Bama hates spending hours with useless f ing players
Joe thinks the Champ is under pressure
MattJB says it would take 5 minutes to change players positions
Joe thinks it's amusing that vets do not want an adp default
Dough does not want adp to be spoon-fed to drafters
BK Mets did one list and uses it everywhere
Gekko says some players are hidden
American Pickers is amazed NFBC vets do not want adp default
Dough and Glenn are not
Gekko says 'Greg says no' so nah-ner-nah-ner
Mattjb says breaks are an advantage at live drafts
Gekko wants a break online
Glenn likes seeing live drafters in a bathroom, just not his
Glenn smokes
Dough does not, but would like an Online break
Joe likes American Pickers content and his right to impart opinions
Bama wants an adp default list if it means having a good f ing list
Joe likes the way Bama thinks
Bama just wants a good f ing list
Joe thinks like-minded vets make it hard for newer posters
Glenn disagrees
BK Mets does too
Bama just wants a good f 'ing list
Joe would like to see Glenn's ass in a 12 team draft
Glenn says he doesn't want his ass beaten by Joe again
Glenn doesn't really look at the draft list
Bama doesn't either, but would like a new f 'ing list
Ty reminds all that fixes are quick if the wrong player is taken
American Pickers says he doesn't know why a rat's ass is given and wants to read more of Glenn
Joe stays true to form, not knowing if something was a joke or not

Great List Dough, I've missed too many conversations of late to attempt to catch up. I will wait for the Dough Notes from now on in every thread.

[Deadheadz]

Default list alphabetically?

So anyone whose queue is emptied after getting knocked offline due to no power or Internet will be getting David Aardsma by default.

That'll sure help his ADP, won't it Gekko?

[Doctor Who]

Dan, I'm not sure if humor was your intent or not, but I couldn't stop laughing as I read it.

It was.
I re-read the thread this morning and found it all amusing. I thought a synopsis would make others smile.

Yes it was! Glad it not only caught me up, but made it a bit lighter in the room. It was beginning to feel like we all love this game too much. Oh wait... We do.

[DOUGHBOYS]

Actually, it would be perfect.
The name 'Aardsma' becomes code for something went wrong for a drafter.
Online facilitators and drafters would immediately know that something is amiss.

[Captain Hook]

By the way, anyone who thinks it's "harder" or a more difficult environment to draft online than live has never drafted live. Yet most of the "really good players" still try to draft live when possible. Imagine that.

I disagree with this Glenn - there are plusses and minuses for either live or online .... BUT the one area where online irks a drafter who has his own draft list is that you not only have to decide who you want to draft but then have to find him on the draft list whereas live all I have to do is announce my pick.

As far as the breaks I agree with those that think if there are breaks live there should at least be ONE break for the online drafters too. Whether the break is used/needed for needs or just a few moments to clear one's head or look at an additional list WHY shouldn't both drafters be able to do it? They are playing in the same event and paying the same entry to try and win the same prizes.

[Glenneration X]

I can't believe how many really good players in these games are up in arms about making the ADP list a little more 'accessible' to all.

Every really good player is really good because they are willing to work at this game and work harder than the next guy.

By the way, anyone who thinks it's "harder" or a more difficult environment to draft online than live has never drafted live. Yet most of the "really good players" still try to draft live when possible. Imagine that.

Sounds like I struck a nerve, sorry. I guess the truth hurts. I think for me the most disappointing comment in this entire thread was when you said, "I'm also not a big fan of leveling the playing field any further than it already is." Why? If everyone is playing on a level playing field, doesn't the best player have the best chance of winning?

Maybe I misunderstood what you were saying. But it kind of came off like you were saying that more teams having access to knowledge of the ADP list would have a negative effect on your 'edge' in the games. I would hope that your 'edge' in the games comes from your aforementioned hard work, not from the fact that some players don't have as much knowledge of the ADP list as they should. Honestly, for the life of me, I can't see how a player of your caliber would give a rat's ass about what draft list, ADP or otherwise, that any other player would have access to (other than your own draft list, of course). In the final analysis, isn't it what players do with their draft list that counts?

In terms of what I was saying about online drafts being harder than live drafts, in terms of draft prep, I believe that is absolutely true. For online drafts, in addition to coming up with my draft list (the same as any player doing a live draft would do), which I do on an excel spreadsheet, I also have to manually transfer that draft list to an online Draft Prep list (which is totally different from my draft list) from which online drafters pick their players. This is a step that live draft players do not have to do. My frustration with having to manually move 400 players up and down the Draft Prep list is what led me to start this thread.

Since I don't consider myself a "really good player" (at least not yet), I suppose I am exempt from the enormous burden and responsibility of drafting in live drafts like actual "really good players" like you consider such a sacred trust. I "imagine that" you participate in live drafts because you enjoy the camaraderie of interacting with other players and you like the format. Me, I like the online game.

P.S.: I enjoyed your Baseball HQ column last season. Very insightful. Just wish the articles came more frequently.

LOL Pickers. If you got to know me, I think you'd realize that there was nothing about this debate that did or could strike a nerve of mine. No worries there.

As far as the comment that disappointed you, yes you do appear to have understood it in the wrong context. However others did understand where I was headed and elaborated on it throughout this thread. If you've got the time and energy to re-read through all these posts, they've explained it better and more thoroughly than I did.

I think we just disagree here. It's fine. Many disagree with me on many much more important topics and arenas than this. And as stated earlier, I've pretty much had my say on the topic, so I'll just once again try to bow out of it gracefully.

PS.... Thank you very much for reading the column last year. I really am glad you enjoyed it and appreciate the kind comments.

[Red Sox Nation-]

By the way, anyone who thinks it's "harder" or a more difficult environment to draft online than live has never drafted live. Yet most of the "really good players" still try to draft live when possible. Imagine that.

I disagree with this Glenn - there are plusses and minuses for either live or online .... BUT the one area where online irks a drafter who has his own draft list is that you not only have to decide who you want to draft but then have to find him on the draft list whereas live all I have to do is announce my pick.

As far as the breaks I agree with those that think if there are breaks live there should at least be ONE break for the online drafters too. Whether the break is used/needed for needs or just a few moments to clear one's head or look at an additional list WHY shouldn't both drafters be able to do it? They are playing in the same event and paying the same entry to try and win the same prizes.

+1 Captain Hook.

I have done both ME (online and in person) and I feel that the live is easier because I can just announce my pick and focus on my excel sheet rather than going back and forth between excel and the draft room then finding the player in the draft room. Online drafting is the necessary evil to have more teams so i'll live with it.

I'd also love a break in the ME online. I'd like this time to clear my head, refresh my lists, and focus on strategy. While the draft is going on I'm busy going between excel and my draft room.

[American Pickers]

LOL Pickers. If you got to know me, I think you'd realize that there was nothing about this debate that did or could strike a nerve of mine. No worries there.

As far as the comment that disappointed you, yes you do appear to have understood it in the wrong context. However others did understand where I was headed and elaborated on it throughout this thread. If you've got the time and energy to re-read through all these posts, they've explained it better and more thoroughly than I did.

I think we just disagree here. It's fine. Many disagree with me on many much more important topics and arenas than this. And as stated earlier, I've pretty much had my say on the topic, so I'll just once again try to bow out of it gracefully.

PS.... Thank you very much for reading the column last year. I really am glad you enjoyed it and appreciate the kind comments.

I agree, Glenn. Time to move on. Good luck with your teams and the Baseball HQ column this season.

[DOUGHBOYS]

You're a good addition to the draft boards, American. No matter what Money says about you!

You stated your case very well. Welcome aboard.

[American Pickers]

I thought I was done with this topic, but as I went to manually move players on the Draft Prep list up and down to match my draft list, I rediscovered another thing that is annoying to the max about the Draft Prep list: names on the Draft Prep list are listed first name first, then last name. In the NFBC Players Stats section, and on my excel spreadsheet, player names are listed last name first, then first name. This makes it incrementally harder to find and then move players on the Draft Prep list, and it makes it harder to make sure the lists match when you are done. When the new Draft Prep tool comes out (I believe Greg said it would be later this week), it would be great if the names on the list could be last name first.

[edelman24]

not to have to keep bringing this up but I did in part sign up for a few leagues this weekend thinking we were going to have the new draft prep tool "early this week" When do we expect the release date to be on this now, since it appears we are not getting it again this week? thanks