Accounting Issue/Question

[TOXIC ASSETS]

Death and taxes, boys.
The only sure things.

[Deadheadz]

Death and taxes, boys.
The only sure things.

One more, CarGo to the DL at some point during the season. Book it.


.

[MrWu]

Fantasy sports, according to tax law, is not gambling. It is not gambling income, so you can not net lottery tickets or other "real gambling" losses against it. It is other income, and other losses go against it.

We do get screwed.. it sort of lessens the ROI in this.

And I'm a CPA. Not that taxes are my specialty, and I am not giving any official advice, but this is not that complicated.

[TParsons]

Greg/Tom- any update on this? If others are doing it, why shouldn't you at least look into it? It might influence some to play football

[Captain Hook]

Fantasy sports, according to tax law, is not gambling. It is not gambling income, so you can not net lottery tickets or other "real gambling" losses against it. It is other income, and other losses go against it.

We do get screwed.. it sort of lessens the ROI in this.

And I'm a CPA. Not that taxes are my specialty, and I am not giving any official advice, but this is not that complicated.

I don't think this is a very realistic view of good tax managment of fantasy sports winnings
Yes they are other income, and No you can't deduct "gambling" losses

BUT you can deduct all your expenses related to your fantasy winnings
1) ALL entries
2) All subscriptions/magazines/books related to baseball (and or football or basketball as long as you entered at least one of those events)
3) MLB package on Directv (again Sunday NFL package too if you play at least one FF league where you can show entry)
4) Travel and lodging expenses if/when you went to a live draft

That is a lot of expenses for many NFBC and NFFC players to say nothing of some of the more creative ways that I won't spell out on these boards.

[Deadheadz]

I don't think this is a very realistic view of good tax managment of fantasy sports winnings
Yes they are other income, and No you can't deduct "gambling" losses

BUT you can deduct all your expenses related to your fantasy winnings
1) ALL entries

When you put ALL in caps it leads me to think you mean the entry fees for the leagues where I didn't win a prize, right?
How is that different from "gambling losses" which you're saying we can't deduct?


.

[TParsons]

Fantasy sports, according to tax law, is not gambling. It is not gambling income, so you can not net lottery tickets or other "real gambling" losses against it. It is other income, and other losses go against it.

We do get screwed.. it sort of lessens the ROI in this.

And I'm a CPA. Not that taxes are my specialty, and I am not giving any official advice, but this is not that complicated.

I don't think this is a very realistic view of good tax managment of fantasy sports winnings
Yes they are other income, and No you can't deduct "gambling" losses

BUT you can deduct all your expenses related to your fantasy winnings
1) ALL entries
2) All subscriptions/magazines/books related to baseball (and or football or basketball as long as you entered at least one of those events)
3) MLB package on Directv (again Sunday NFL package too if you play at least one FF league where you can show entry)
4) Travel and lodging expenses if/when you went to a live draft

That is a lot of expenses for many NFBC and NFFC players to say nothing of some of the more creative ways that I won't spell out on these boards.

You are assuming that people are doing this as a business. In order to do that, you have to show profit for at least 3 of the past 5 yrs, among other requirements. Most people can't do that. The point is that there is no 100% clear way for the players to file this. It does appear that many other operators are netting for their players. This helps everybody out in the end. There is no reason that the NFBC/NFFC shouldn't at least look into it for their customers.

Deadheadz, you 100% can't net gambling against your winnings.

[Captain Hook]

I don't think this is a very realistic view of good tax managment of fantasy sports winnings
Yes they are other income, and No you can't deduct "gambling" losses

BUT you can deduct all your expenses related to your fantasy winnings
1) ALL entries

When you put ALL in caps it leads me to think you mean the entry fees for the leagues where I didn't win a prize, right?
How is that different from "gambling losses" which you're saying we can't deduct?


.

Separate FB & FF from "gambling" ie casino/poker/track etc.

[Philly High Hopes]

A very simple question needs to be answered. In 2014, the DFS sites provided tax records reporting net income. Yet NFBC reported gross income. Why is one different if it's all fantasy sports? Was this not a topic of discussion at the FSTA trade conference? If not, it needs to be addressed so that all operators are playing by the same rules. Currently, it's a major detriment to the NFBC.

[Greg Ambrosius]

Greg/Tom- any update on this? If others are doing it, why shouldn't you at least look into it? It might influence some to play football

Ty, I'm not ignoring your question. I'm waiting for an update on this as we are looking into this further. If there is a legal way to do it and our Accounting Department gets the green light we will follow suit. But the way we are doing it now is no different than the way we've done this with your winnings since we started the NFBC in 2004 as Krause Publications and Fanball did it the same way.

Fanball did net out the winnings one year we were with them, but they also did some things for Canadian winners that we never did before. I wouldn't put much stock into that one year that we paid out that way because we asked this of our Krause Publications accounting department, of the F&W Accounting Department and the STATS Accounting Department and they all came to the same conclusion that this is the legal way to report earnings.

As you say, the industry has changed in recent years and we will ask for further guidance. If we can do it like the daily games are doing it we certainly won't resist. We're seeking advice on this now. I'll post when I know more.

[Cocktails and Dreams]

It is 100 percent legal for the NFFC/NFBC to net it out and report it that way.

[rickerbockerNFBC]

Mr. Wu & TParsons are 100% correct. However, NFBC (at least as of today) can legally report your net winnings instead of gross winnings on the 1099 form.

I have to agree with Mr. Wu also when he writes, "This is not that complicated." I think taxes in general are confusing because there are some weird rules and the rules change from year to year. Not to get political (begin soapbox), but this is by design. If the general population really, truly, understood all of the tax laws everyone would be storming Washington DC in protest (IMHO!). Instead, the design is to make it seem confusing so people just throw their arms in the air and rely on Accountants. (End soap box).
Have a great day!

[TParsons]

Greg/Tom- any update on this? If others are doing it, why shouldn't you at least look into it? It might influence some to play football

Ty, I'm not ignoring your question. I'm waiting for an update on this as we are looking into this further. If there is a legal way to do it and our Accounting Department gets the green light we will follow suit. But the way we are doing it now is no different than the way we've done this with your winnings since we started the NFBC in 2004 as Krause Publications and Fanball did it the same way.

Fanball did net out the winnings one year we were with them, but they also did some things for Canadian winners that we never did before. I wouldn't put much stock into that one year that we paid out that way because we asked this of our Krause Publications accounting department, of the F&W Accounting Department and the STATS Accounting Department and they all came to the same conclusion that this is the legal way to report earnings.

As you say, the industry has changed in recent years and we will ask for further guidance. If we can do it like the daily games are doing it we certainly won't resist. We're seeking advice on this now. I'll post when I know more.

Hi Greg.

With the regular season over and prizes being distributed shortly, it would be great to get an update on this while its fresh on our minds. Thanks!!

[Greg Ambrosius]

Greg/Tom- any update on this? If others are doing it, why shouldn't you at least look into it? It might influence some to play football

Ty, I'm not ignoring your question. I'm waiting for an update on this as we are looking into this further. If there is a legal way to do it and our Accounting Department gets the green light we will follow suit. But the way we are doing it now is no different than the way we've done this with your winnings since we started the NFBC in 2004 as Krause Publications and Fanball did it the same way.

Fanball did net out the winnings one year we were with them, but they also did some things for Canadian winners that we never did before. I wouldn't put much stock into that one year that we paid out that way because we asked this of our Krause Publications accounting department, of the F&W Accounting Department and the STATS Accounting Department and they all came to the same conclusion that this is the legal way to report earnings.

As you say, the industry has changed in recent years and we will ask for further guidance. If we can do it like the daily games are doing it we certainly won't resist. We're seeking advice on this now. I'll post when I know more.

Hi Greg.

With the regular season over and prizes being distributed shortly, it would be great to get an update on this while its fresh on our minds. Thanks!!

We have not lost sight of this at all. As a big company, we need approval/guidance from our auditors and we continue to make the case for this to them. We have NOT gotten the go-ahead yet to do what others are doing, but we still have time before reporting taxes for 2015. Once I hear from Accounting on this you guys will be the first to know.

But we're not sitting on this; we want this as much as you do. Still, we need approval to enact this and it hasn't happened yet.

[TParsons]

We have not lost sight of this at all. As a big company, we need approval/guidance from our auditors and we continue to make the case for this to them. We have NOT gotten the go-ahead yet to do what others are doing, but we still have time before reporting taxes for 2015. Once I hear from Accounting on this you guys will be the first to know.

But we're not sitting on this; we want this as much as you do. Still, we need approval to enact this and it hasn't happened yet.

Greg- Since we know the audit is over given we had to wait on it to get paid, I can only assume you have an answer regarding how you will report our winnings. So give it to us, will it be net or gross?

[Greg Ambrosius]

We have not lost sight of this at all. As a big company, we need approval/guidance from our auditors and we continue to make the case for this to them. We have NOT gotten the go-ahead yet to do what others are doing, but we still have time before reporting taxes for 2015. Once I hear from Accounting on this you guys will be the first to know.

But we're not sitting on this; we want this as much as you do. Still, we need approval to enact this and it hasn't happened yet.

Greg- Since we know the audit is over given we had to wait on it to get paid, I can only assume you have an answer regarding how you will report our winnings. So give it to us, will it be net or gross?

We have received positive news on this front from Accounting, but let me get more specific information first. I don't have all of the details yet, but I think we're going to be able to make this a little better for NFBC owners.