What are they thinking?

[Navel Lint]

So far this spring and continuing for the next several weeks, MLB is letting fans vote on who they think is the Greatest Living Player.
They are also letting fans vote for the greatest Negro League player and the Best All-Time player for every team.
The leading vote getter from each category will be honored at the All Star Game in Cincinnati.

I went through most of the team ballots. You are allowed to vote for four players from an option of eight players. A write-in option is also available.
Going through the teams, there can be some debate over who the top four are, but it seems fairly obvious that MLB got it right as far as the eight names on each ballot being the top 8 from each franchise.

Where I think MLB got it wrong is the ballot for Greatest Living Player.
The ballot has eight pre-selected names and a slot for a write-in candidate. Here are the 8 players on the list.

Hank Aaron
Johnny Bench
Barry Bonds
Ricky Henderson
Sandy Koufax
Pedro Martinez
Willie Mays
Tom Seaver

These eight guys are all great players, but this wouldn’t be my list.

Let’s start with the single biggest omission from the list.

Where’s Frank Robinson?????? Hello!! MLB???

The All Star Game is in Cincinnati and you don’t include Frank Robinson on the list???
Even if I didn’t think Robinson was in the top 8, which I do, I would have had him on the list. Frank is on the ballot for the Reds, but he will probably lose that vote to Pete Rose. So I hope MLB is thinking of another way to honor Robinson, because not having him on the top 8 list is crazy.

Now you might ask, if Pete Rose is on the Reds team vote, and MLB did let him participate in the All-Century Team back in 1999, why isn’t he on the Greatest Living Player list?
Easy answer, he’s not in the top 8.
I loved Rose as a player, and he was a Great player, he just doesn’t crack my top 8.

And before I give you my top 8, let’s talk about the other obvious inconsistency on the list.
If MLB is going to put Barry Bonds on the list, a documented PED user, how in the world do they not have Roger Clemens on the ballot? By almost any measure, Clemens is one of the top 10 pitchers of all-time.

Leaving my own personally suspected PED users off the list (I don’t know if that’s fair, but it’s my list), here is my ballot for the eight Greatest Living Players.

Hank Aaron
Bob Gibson
Ricky Henderson
Greg Maddux
Willie Mays
Frank Robinson
Mike Schmidt
Tom Seaver

Aaron, Henderson, Mays, and Seaver are carry-overs from the MLB list.
Gone are Bench (my favorite player when I was growing up), Bonds, Koufax, and Martinez.

On the site you get to vote for 4 players.
My votes from my ballot would be for….

Aaron
Mays
Robinson
Seaver

[Atlas]

I just don't see Pedro in this class of player.
Hall of Fame...sure.
All time?? ...uh...no.

[Rainiers]

I'm with you on Frank Robinson, and would add Ken Griffey Jr.

Also with you on PED users. Keep the likes of Bonds and Arod off this list.

IMO, Pete Rose should be kept out of the HOF and off this ballot.

And for the pitchers...really, what are they thinking. I take the following four before the three listed:

Mariano Rivera
Nolan Ryan
Steve Carlton
Greg Maddox

[Navel Lint]

I'm with you on Frank Robinson, and would add Ken Griffey Jr.

Also with you on PED users. Keep the likes of Bonds and Arod off this list.

IMO, Pete Rose should be kept out of the HOF and off this ballot.

And for the pitchers...really, what are they thinking. I take the following four before the three listed:

Mariano Rivera
Nolan Ryan
Steve Carlton
Greg Maddox

Honestly, I was so shocked to not see Frank Robinson on the list that I had to double check just to make sure I didn't miss what would be sad news of his passing. Thankfully of course, he is still alive.

When I thought about my list. I had Mike Schmidt in my eighth spot. I did highly consider Griffey Jr and Al Kaline, but I went with Schmidt just because he played third base and that position is under represented with great players.

I also considered Mariano Rivera, but I choose Maddux over him.
There is no way that I put Rivera, Ryan or Carlton over Seaver.
Tom Terrific sort of reminds me of Stan Musial, his greatness seems to be under-appreciated by fans.

[Navel Lint]

I'm not exactly sure how MLB is going to present this at the ASG.
My guess is that they will just announce who is the Greatest Living Player as voted by the fans.
I think that it is fairly obvious that the top two vote recipients will be Hank Aaron and Willie Mays.
I could make an argument for either player, but my guess is that Hank Aaron will be named as the fan vote honoree.


My favorite Hank Aaron stat.
If you eliminate all of Aaron's HR's, he is still in the 3000 hit club (3771-755 = 3016)

[Cotton1]

I agree that Nolan Ryan should be on the list. Fwiw I met Pete Rose 5-6 years ago, got to spend 30 mins with him uninterrupted. I said, "you played with the best catcher ever(Bench), and the best second baseman ever(Morgan), who was better? He said, "the best player I ever played with was neither. It was Mike Schmidt". Food for thought

[whale4evr]

If you go by WAR (B-Ref):

Bonds 162.4
Mays 156.2
Aaron 142.6
Clemens 140.3
A-Rod 116.6
Rickey 110.8
Seaver 110.5
Robinson 107.2
Maddux 106.8
Schmidt 106.5

[rickerbockerNFBC]

IMHO, you can make an argument that Pedro Martinez was the BEST pitcher in MLB history. When you consider his stats and in the offensive stats that were being put up during his era, I think there's a very strong argument that Pedro was the best pitcher of all time. And, to my knowledge, he's still alive. So, leaving him off the list of eight would be shameful and wrong . . . . Again, just in my humble opinion.

[rickerbockerNFBC]

Using WAR to compare players from different eras (AND just different positions from the same era) is probably not the best idea.

[headhunters]

pretty sure WAR does factor in each era by the "r". replacement level varies by year and is taken into account- i think.

[headhunters]

nolan ryan struck a lot of guys out but he really isn't in my top 50 or so pitchers. ricky henderson- russel you need to re-check his stats- he is top 8 for sure.

[DOUGHBOYS]

IMHO, you can make an argument that Pedro Martinez was the BEST pitcher in MLB history. When you consider his stats and in the offensive stats that were being put up during his era, I think there's a very strong argument that Pedro was the best pitcher of all time. And, to my knowledge, he's still alive. So, leaving him off the list of eight would be shameful and wrong . . . . Again, just in my humble opinion.

I don't agree.
Every list like this is arbitrary. If Pedro doesn't make a list, there is nothing wrong or shameful about it.
Arguments can be made about SEVERAL pitchers being the best pitcher.
My personal pitching favorite of all time was Sandy Koufax. I find nothing wrong with others not including him on almost any sort of list.
Not a big deal.
These type of things are just opinions, designed to create conversation, much as it has here.

[Navel Lint]

IMHO, you can make an argument that Pedro Martinez was the BEST pitcher in MLB history. When you consider his stats and in the offensive stats that were being put up during his era, I think there's a very strong argument that Pedro was the best pitcher of all time. And, to my knowledge, he's still alive. So, leaving him off the list of eight would be shameful and wrong . . . . Again, just in my humble opinion.

MLB has both Koufax and Martinez on their list. Not coincidentally, I removed both from my list.
Both were great pitchers, both had tremendously huge peak periods.

I just think that if you are going to be MLB's Greatest Living Player, particularly if you are a pitcher, there has to be a 'longevity' component to the equation. I put longevity in quotes because I don't just mean time period. I'm talking about actual games pitched.

Neither Pedro or Koufax are even in the top 100 of career games started.
And I know sometimes with a stat like that it's hard to compare era's, but even if you look at the exact period of Pedro's career (1992-2009), he is not even in the top 10 against his fellow pitchers in Games Started. Steve Trachsel had more starts over that period than Pedro did.

Pedro was a great pitcher
Koufax was a great pitcher

But I believe that Maddux, Seaver, and Gibson better represent what a Greatest Player should be.
Obviously, MLB didn't ask for my opinion first

[Navel Lint]

nolan ryan struck a lot of guys out but he really isn't in my top 50 or so pitchers. ricky henderson- russel you need to re-check his stats- he is top 8 for sure.

Ricky is in my Top 8.

[headhunters]

geez- we agree. things are looking up. btw russel- bryant is a player. so is solar. it also is just really sad that it took about 9 great players to come up to the cubs for starling castro to decide to play. my experience- guys like that are not the kind that you can rely on.

[Navel Lint]

geez- we agree. things are looking up. btw russel- bryant is a player. so is solar. it also is just really sad that it took about 9 great players to come up to the cubs for starling castro to decide to play. my experience- guys like that are not the kind that you can rely on.

Well then we are 2 for 2 today and should quit while we are ahead.

I hope Castro has a great first half, then I hope Theo and Hoyer can trade him.
I'm not a big fan