Dissolved League - Integrity & Acountability

[BK METS]

BK, Let's assume for a minute that Cool Guys was in on the fraud. I am not saying that he was. But for arguments sake lets assume this. Lets also assume that I would be considered a credible player, like Cool Guys has proven to be with some solid results. If I were in cahoots with that band of frauds, I would certainly do the exact same thing. If I knew great players were going to keep flowing all year into the pool, I would blow my wad so, I as the one credible player in the league is "off the hook." Did my part to use my money protecting the pool, I just got beat after and could nothing about it as I was out of money. Doing it any other way would be very stupid. If he were involved, he did it exactly as you should if you were part of the scam. And again, I am not saying he was. But the more oddities that develop the more I think so.

At the same time, lets assume you weren't a part of the fraud and you were in this league and you see big names available in free agency. You would do just as Cool Guys did. How would helping a guy collude to win the overall in one league, help his #2 overall team in the other league? Don't you think he would want to win the overall in his league and not help someone else win in another league? I think we have already proven that there were no glaring FAAB pickups or draft steals in his #2 overall league.

I think Joe did a great job at uncovering this entire fiasco. But, I do believe Cool Guys will end up being innocent here. Just my opinion based upon the facts that I see from both leagues. Maybe Greg uncovers something behind the scenes.

[Cocktails and Dreams]

If I wasn't part of the fraud, I would probably spend pretty big money(not as much as he did) to try and get those players. And when a pattern developed, I would alert Greg about it, especially seeing half the league involving guys of the same two last names. I would do this whether I had another team in the mix or not. But I certainly would if I did have another team in the mix. He did not do this for some reason. And it doesn't look great as a result, considering he was even in this league somehow, and his other league involves 3 guys exclusive to his leagues that have not proven to be good players(assuming they are even real people).

[BK METS]

Just a sidebar, but how about all of the other fantasy sites that don't post the names of the participants or records of the drafts or FAAB pickups? Can you imagine what is happening in those leagues? The NFBC should be commended that this type of thing could be uncovered by the players. Their transparency is how this league was outed. I think if Greg knew more about any of these owners, he would have revealed it by now or is still researching.

[Deadheadz]

.

I've got no teams in the OLC.

If the guy was in the dissolved league and looked the other way at what seems to be obvious collusion, isn't he guilty of cheating in a way? Do the rules of conduct state or imply he has a duty to bring forward this behaviour or be considered part of the conspiracy?

No one likes a rat but when you're benefitting a little or a lot and keep your mouth shut it should mean you're booted from all leagues.

Or is he innocent until PROVEN guilty?

.

[Money]

Just a sidebar, but how about all of the other fantasy sites that don't post the names of the participants or records of the drafts or FAAB pickups? Can you imagine what is happening in those leagues? The NFBC should be commended that this type of thing could be uncovered by the players. Their transparency is how this league was outed. I think if Greg knew more about any of these owners, he would have revealed it by now or is still researching.

The integrity of the NFBC has never been questioned here. I play Fantasy baseball and football exclusively in the NFBC and the NFFC. I do so because I trust Greg and his organization. Please make no mistake about it, this has nothing to do with the NFBC, it's simply about players trying to scam the game and uneven the playing field. What is transpiring here is for the good of the NFBC and the game we play.

[Doctor Who]

Two things here I'm curious about and tend to agree more with Joe and Chad. Not saying the guy is guilty of anything but definitely has some smoke to it to at least inquire about it.

1) if he wasn't in on it in the disbanded league, and saw these guys going for low amounts of money, why not put his last $3 on one of them as a backup bid etc since a pattern developed that these guys were going cheap?

2) I thought Greg mentioned something about everyone in this league not being able to compete in the Nfbc anymore? Maybe just in future seasons? Not everyone? If so, how was that decided?

[Gekko]

Mark has no clue whatsoever if wrongdoing happened in this league. The point seems to be sailing over his head. It is rather surprising, as I consider him to be a pretty smart guy.

haha! ya, okay chad. "i don't get it". i understand it perfectly. good luck with what you and Joe are trying to accomplish.

[JohnP]

Two things here I'm curious about and tend to agree more with Joe and Chad. Not saying the guy is guilty of anything but definitely has some smoke to it to at least inquire about it.

1) if he wasn't in on it in the disbanded league, and saw these guys going for low amounts of money, why not put his last $3 on one of them as a backup bid etc since a pattern developed that these guys were going cheap?

2) I thought Greg mentioned something about everyone in this league not being able to compete in the Nfbc anymore? Maybe just in future seasons? Not everyone? If so, how was that decided?

If I had the $3 left, I would save it for an injury emergency as to not take zeros regardless of how cheap the free agents were going for. Regarding the second point, here is what Greg posted:

There will be no league prizes for this league and all accounts have been locked pertaining to these teams. We will take the next step of blocking some owners from the NFBC permanently.

[Cocktails and Dreams]

Mark has no clue whatsoever if wrongdoing happened in this league. The point seems to be sailing over his head. It is rather surprising, as I consider him to be a pretty smart guy.

haha! ya, okay chad. "i don't get it". i understand it perfectly. good luck with what you and Joe are trying to accomplish.

Gotcha, I figured you did as you are pretty smart. Just didn't seem like it since all your posts on the issue have nothing to do with the issues, but focusing on free agency only. As for what we are trying to accomplish, I don't need luck. I trust Greg will answer the questions to everyone's satisfactions.

[Gekko]

Good luck!

[Cocktails and Dreams]

Okay we have Mark out on an island vouching for Bryan. He thinks this all adds up and is not fishy at all and is all good. Many others are not so confident.

Here is one person's well worded take on the issue. Granted, he feels it flat out did happen. I am not sure, but would like it explained. This speaks to the very subtle things in a 12 team format that add up to massive advantages in the end. Guys like Mark are overlooking this, simply claiming that no one move looks damning, so lets call it a day. Those that know the 12 team format well, know the subtle edges that can be had potentially if efforts were made to set up a week league. Added up over a 162 game season, it is a massive edge. I wouldn't expect those that don't play much 12 team baseball to fully understand this, and Mark is in this camp.

Here is the take.

My guess is that this is way too common and has happened before:

1) Enlist 2-3 friends that are far inferior and have them join a league with you.
2) Pick a league that drafts when there are other higher $/more competitive leagues drafting at the same time.
3) Wait until just prior to the season starting so many owners that are new to the game and want some action jump in.
4) If needed won't be terribly difficult to get a friend to pass you some talent if you need it.

You guarantee yourself a few things.

A) Your drafted roster should look like a 10 team roster after 30 rounds.
B) FAAB is a breeze, players get dropped that should not and you have zero competition for under the radar talent and very little competition for known players.

[BK METS]

Okay we have Mark out on an island vouching for Bryan. He thinks this all adds up and is not fishy at all and is all good. Many others are not so confident.

Here is one person's well worded take on the issue. Granted, he feels it flat out did happen. I am not sure, but would like it explained. This speaks to the very subtle things in a 12 team format that add up to massive advantages in the end. Guys like Mark are overlooking this, simply claiming that no one move looks damning, so lets call it a day. Those that know the 12 team format well, know the subtle edges that can be had potentially if efforts were made to set up a week league. Added up over a 162 game season, it is a massive edge. I wouldn't expect those that don't play much 12 team baseball to fully understand this, and Mark is in this camp.

Here is the take.

My guess is that this is way too common and has happened before:

1) Enlist 2-3 friends that are far inferior and have them join a league with you.
2) Pick a league that drafts when there are other higher $/more competitive leagues drafting at the same time.
3) Wait until just prior to the season starting so many owners that are new to the game and want some action jump in.
4) If needed won't be terribly difficult to get a friend to pass you some talent if you need it.

You guarantee yourself a few things.

A) Your drafted roster should look like a 10 team roster after 30 rounds.
B) FAAB is a breeze, players get dropped that should not and you have zero competition for under the radar talent and very little competition for known players.

That's a theory that would definitely be a red flag, when it happens, as in the dissolved league. Problem is, the league we are now questioning didn't have any a strange draft occurrences or FAAB drops/pickups. The names are all out on the table. There are many who look for advantages, such as joining leagues with lesser talent. If that's the accusation, it's a weak one, at best. I see nothing in the FAAB pickups or draft that says he was given an unfair advantage. If I missed something, point it out to me. As far as joining leagues with friends, look at the rosters and pickups of the other teams in this draft. It was very normal. Bryan did well, as he did last year, by getting some timely pickups and drafting well, but nothing extraordinary, in my mind. Maybe I am wrong, but just my take.

[Gekko]

if anyone has direct evidence of any improprieties conducted in this league, THAT WOULD HOLD UP TO COMMISH REVIEW AND LEGAL REVIEW, go ahead and post.

As for "off on an island", I believe that to be you (just like your unfounded allegations two years ago were deemed unwarranted by the commissioner. Unless you have substantial direct evidence, my prediction is you (and others) are wasting their time.

Hey, if you manage to free up some time on your end, you can sign up for your 14th NFFC Classic team this football season. Some would call that "buying the grand prize" or "impacting the integrity of the overall contest"

[Money]

When I put this thread out there it was with the intention to inform and let others possibly look into the many suspect circumstances and coincidences that have presented themselves in this league. I felt almost immediately that I had to defend even posting the thread. A lot of great points have been brought up along the way. I believe there is a lot more here than meets the eye. In the original post I stated straight out that there were not any obvious FAAB things going on. There is just too much other stuff going on here to ignore.

I never thought anything would come of this, I just felt that it needed to be out there so everyone knows that people are out there working out ways to cash in on the big prize. I just want to compete on a level playing field and win by playing the best over the course of the season.

Last night a poster in another thread stated "It's time to move on now" after giving a ringing endorsement for a player / team that benefited greatly from the league being dissolved. Yesterday I received a couple of PM's concerning this and was concerned enough to take a look. Here is what I was alerted too and verified the best I could. I am going to lay this out and let the community draw their own conclusions as I did at the start of all this. I also hope that this leads to further investigation within this community as I couldn't do it myself at the beginning and I cannot do it now.

Here is what we know going forward:

A team from the dissolved league is now in second place in the Rotowire competition with an outstanding chance to win $100,000. This team is named Cool Guys II as it's no big secret.

This player has 2 teams in the competition this year. One in the dissolved league and one now benefiting from that disaster that resides in second place in the overall chase for $100,000 (this may be a coincidence but certainly throws up a red flag)

Last season the same player entered 2 Rotowire teams. He had a great season and finished 9th overall. In a very competitive league the second place team finished 19th overall. Fantastic league with a great finish.

In his second league last year (league 3304) he finished 2nd.

In 2016 he again has 2 teams, one of which is in a league designed to have an absurd unfair advantage. That leaves him one league left as his first league has been dissolved.

His second team moves into second place overall, greatly benefiting from the demise of his first league.

IN THIS LEAGUE THERE ARE 3 PLAYERS FROM HIS LAST YEARS SECOND PLACE LEAGUE.

THESE 3 PLAYERS HAVE ONLY PARTICIPATED IN 1 LEAGUE THIS SEASON, HIS LEAGUE.

TWO OF THE THREE PLAYERS HAVE ONY PLAYED IN HIS LEAGUE EACH YEAR

THE OTHER PLAYER HAD 2 OTHER NON COMPETITIVE TEAMS LAST SEASON AND IS EXCLUSIVELY IN HIS LEAGUE THIS SEASON.

There are name changes but you cannot change the name on a draft board and those can be found through the draft results page for each league. It is possible with name changes that there are other teams, although I doubt it.

They have had no success and pose no threat either year in either league. They appear only once each season and in his league exclusively.

At this point I wish not to share anything further. I think the the NFBC and the community should take a hard look at this and figure out what's up. There are no obvious faab things going on here.

What I want to know is (amongst many things) is why this player didn't alert the NFBC to what was going on in his league this year? There are a lot of strange occurrences and coincidences that revolve around the originally dissolved league. At very least the questions deserve to be asked. I don't know what to make of it all, I just know that it needs to be looked at.

I am drawing no conclusions here, simply laying out what is available to all via some research. The extremely rare instance (first time ever) of dissolving a league requires full venting of all involved. I'm done here and will leave it to the rest of you and the NFBC.

[Gekko]

Joe - I haven't looked at the online championship standings, but from what I heard you had or have a team in the top 10. Obviously you are watching some of your competitors moves and speaking out when you think something might be wrong. Are there any other owners/teams around you in the overall standings where you have noticed something suspicious?

[Money]

Joe - I haven't looked at the online championship standings, but from what I heard you had or have a team in the top 10. Obviously you are watching some of your competitors moves and speaking out when you think something might be wrong. Are there any other owners/teams around you in the overall standings where you have noticed something suspicious?

Mark, I first stumbled on the original fraudulent league while tracking faab $'s for the top teams. At that time I did not see anything although I wasn't looking at it from an investigative point of view. I just wondered who had what money left to keep improving their teams. The obvious fraudulent activity (from the initial league) that was going on was quite evident.

Moving on to the league attached to it, I was informed via PM (as I stated in the post) of the strange connections. I then verified what I was told and posted what I believe to be inequities in the competition.

So to answer your question, I have not taken a closer look at the other teams, although If I can stay in contention (which is doubtful) I probably will, but it will be from a competitive standpoint and not an investigative one. You have made your point over and over that I have an ulterior motive. My motive is a level playing field. If you choose not to believe that I'm just fine with it. Everyone deserved to be alerted as to what is going on. You seem determined to keep asking the same questions while pounding home your same points concerning me. I am the messenger who has taken on the role of defending why I posted this in the first place. A fair and level competition for all and transparency for the NFBC is the answer that you refuse to accept.

[BK METS]

SEE PREVIOUSLY LISTED DRAFT RESULTS - I have updated the draft of Cool Guys 2, adding a comparison to ADP (After March 1). This is in response to the point made that he would have essentially drafted in a 10 team, rather than a 12 team, 30 round draft, due to 'unfair advantage' of apparently playing in a league with a couple of friends.

Some additional points. He reached for Jay Bruce and Wilson Ramos early (-6 and -17). Obviously paid dividends. Others he reached for, earlier than their ADP - Hammel (-15) Kinsler (-5) J Turner (-12) E Rosario (-55)

He got "bargains" with C Martinez (+17), Nola (+18) Gattis (+29) Cron (+24) E Suarez (+69) Eickoff (+34)

Rounds 1-10 (Draft Score +18)
Rounds 11-20 (Draft Score -122)
Rounds 22-30 (Draft Score +99)

Total draft score - (-5)

ADP is obviously not the tell all in this, but just wanted to breakdown his draft and the thought that maybe he was drafting with friends that let him take players early. Not the case.

[Money]

Respectfully Allen I concede that the draft and FAAB certainly do not appear to be involved here. A lot of other moving parts though that need some answers that will most likely never come. I knew going in this was a tough path that would most likely lead nowhere. I just wanted all to be informed of the series of connections. You have taken offense. You have your opinion and I'm good with that. You're on record.

[BK METS]

Respectfully Allen I concede that the draft and FAAB certainly do not appear to be involved here. A lot of other moving parts though that need some answers that will most likely never come. I knew going in this was a tough path that would most likely lead nowhere. I just wanted all to be informed of the series of connections. You have taken offense. You have your opinion and I'm good with that. You're on record.

I have not taken offense.. you put it out there and I came up with draft results, FAAB pickups and numbers proving otherwise. I believe, if someone is guilty, they should pay the price... but if someone is innocent and proven innocent (there is nothing other than draft results and FAAB results, in my mind, that make a difference as to how someone is performing), then I think maybe you need to let it go.

You did a great job in uncovering the other league. You have now brought out a new league, connecting it to the other dissolved league and your pal has joined in on the conspiracy theory. Where was the wrongdoing in this league? Show us all, how his "friends" helped him? Wouldnt they have had to draft really poorly or drop players, that he picked up, that helped him immensely? Where is the evidence?

[Money]

Allen, just read the initial post. There is no smoking gun. The list of circumstances and lack of action are plenty to warrant looking into this. I will not keep repeating them, although I will repost (an earlier post) the litany of things that are off with his participation in his only two leagues. You have made your point. It's time for you to move on if you have nothing more to add.

[Gekko]

Joe - Even though we may be on different sides of the aisle on this one, thanks for keeping the dialogue above the belt. Good luck moving forward.

[Cocktails and Dreams]

I don't think anyone can confidently be on any sides of any aisle without knowing more. And knowing more is information we are not allowed to see but should be looked into based on one thing alone. Bryan was in that fraudulent league, and didn't mention anything about it. And since Greg said he is looking into who will be banned from future contests, this should be done thoroughly and taken very seriously anyway. Bryan is one of those people in the league. Here are some questions that could use some answers.

How is it explained that he stumbles upon that league that filled well in advance with a bunch of frauds?
How is it explained that two years in a row one of his two leagues have three of the same guys in them and these players don't play in leagues that Bryan is not in. Is this type of thing allowed? Is it my right to get my local league together that mostly suck at fantasy football and all join this the online championship in a league? How many is okay? Where are lines drawn?
Do we even know these people really exist? The name of one of them has changed since draft day.
Have IP addresses been verified to show they match the locations being claimed on the account.
Have payments been looked into to see if credit cards or other payment method jived with the account, or was something fishy here?

I don't think it is out of bounds to look into. If Bryan were to win the bonus, and the insurance company knew all this, I am not sure they would pay. Nor I am I sure that this is all on the level.

Bottom line is, there is no way I could be confident that there was or was not any wrongdoing unless these and other questions are answered. I don't know how anyone could possibly have the confidence that Mark and Alan have that there is nothing wrong going on here, without knowing more.

[Cocktails and Dreams]

if anyone has direct evidence of any improprieties conducted in this league, THAT WOULD HOLD UP TO COMMISH REVIEW AND LEGAL REVIEW, go ahead and post.

As for "off on an island", I believe that to be you (just like your unfounded allegations two years ago were deemed unwarranted by the commissioner. Unless you have substantial direct evidence, my prediction is you (and others) are wasting their time.

Hey, if you manage to free up some time on your end, you can sign up for your 14th NFFC Classic team this football season. Some would call that "buying the grand prize" or "impacting the integrity of the overall contest"

Since you are not in the mood to keep things above the belt, I will respond to your bullshit.

1. We didn't ask Greg to do anything in the platinum. All we did is say exactly what happened. We didn't even claim to know the reasons why those owners that were out of it did what they did. All we did is say what they did. It is a 20k buy in league. What we said happened sure as hell happened. Only those owners know exactly why they did what they did. But I haven't played in a contained league with roto scoring since. And it certainly is not because I am scared. So you are full of shit when claiming this crap about unfounded accusations. I only said what happened. I don't even know if I speculated any reasons why, but I sure as hell never said this is why this guy did that. LMAO at you suggesting that we asked Greg to change anything. That is ludicrous.

2. How in the hell is owning multiple teams impacting the integrity of the contest? Are you, of all people, going to suggest that I have problems with integrity because I play a lot of teams? The same guy that cheated with Vicente Padilla? You are too much. Anyone with any common sense whatsoever, can understand the difference between daily and full season in regards to multiple team tournaments. You don't seem to be as smart as I was giving you credit for. I always felt you had poor ethics, but I didn't think you were stupid too.

If you get a little time, since you seem pretty concerned with me, can you count my primetimes up for me and make sure that they don't overlap with the classics?. Thanks in advance.

[Gekko]

Chad - your recollection is bullshit as are your posts. Everyone outside of your inner circle knows it. Keep living in fantasy land.

13 classics and 15 prime times. contest integrity compromised in the court of public opinion. Carry on

[Cocktails and Dreams]

Chad - your recollection is bullshit as are your posts. Everyone outside of your inner circle knows it. Keep living in fantasy land.

13 classics and 15 prime times. contest integrity compromised in the court of public opinion. Carry on

Nope, my recollection is perfectly accurate. I don't lie to try to make people look bad like you. If you want to carry this on send me a pm and we can handle it there. Or come find me in Vegas and we can hash it out in person if you like.