Catchers and Closers

[DOUGHBOYS]

Brian Seymour's YouTube videos sparked a thought about nobody's favorite positions to draft, Catchers and Closers.
Catchers and Closers are to baseball as Kickers and Defense are to football.
They are the positions that most either want to overdraft to get the best from that position or underdraft in not wanting to 'waste' premium picks for a position thought to be the dregs of fantasy baseball.

Before going into this, it is my personal belief that the two catcher requirement is one of the few things the NFBC has done wrong through the years. I realize I am in the minority on this. Other veterans say that two catchers make things more 'strategical during drafts. I believe that a one catcher system would make things more strategical for FAAB. And open up drafts near the end for other players. To me, it's like being required to draft two Tight Ends in football.
But, won't belabor the point, it is what it is and we've been playing this way since the start.

I look at Catchers and Closers as 'penalty picks'. Picks that we grind our teeth as we choose them. Especially earlier in the year.
Some Catchers have not found homes. When they do find that home, they could bump another Catcher into oblivion. Right now, Derek Norris is in oblivion. As the draft season winds down and brings clarity as to what Catcher starts where, we still have the untidy job of drafting them.
We know that James McCann, Cervelli, Sandy Leon, Jason Castro, etc are going to start for their teams. We don't want these Catchers. We don't strategize to draft these Catchers. These Catchers are 'Fallers'. They fall in every draft because they are like kissing Aunt Ruth.

Some want to alleviate the problem by turning Aunt Ruth into the Head Cheerleader.
They'll draft Buster Posey.
The cost is heavy.
While Posey drafters are kissing the head cheerleader with a third round pick, other drafters are feasting on five category players. Players that most likely, will beat Posey in every roto category.
Is it worth it?
For them it is. They don't look at it as being surpassed by five category players, but locking up the best of a tough position.

In the past in Main Events, I have treated Catchers like evil step-children and waited on them and I have also taken Buster Posey.
In my opinion, both ways are wrong.
Ignoring or pushing Catchers are not the answer.
I now try to treat them as any other position. Neither ignoring or pushing.
Catchers are going to, most likely, be liabilities in one form or another during a draft or during the season.
Unlike Closers, they are required on our rosters. We can't ignore them and the requirement means that we will see little of starting Catchers on FAAB.
Picking wisely, like any other position, makes them less of a headache as the season progresses.

As intimated, Closers are different. We don't HAVE to pick Closers. But then again, their is that nasty category called Saves.
And only Closers get Saves.
Closers have been drafted in many different ways by NFBC drafters.
I believe that Joe Thelan has been the best through the years in using the 'No Closer' teams.
And I do mean 'No Closers'.
Joe does not try to make up for not drafting a Closer by using FAAB. He uses FAAB for Starters and offensive players, perfectly willing to take a zero in the Saves category.
Joe has been very successful with this strategy.

Some, like to draft one 'for sure' Closer like Chapman/Jansen (C/J). Like drafting Posey as a Catcher, this drafter wants to make a Closer a position of strength. And like the Posey drafter, drafters around the C/J picks are taking pitchers who will exceed them in every other category, save Saves. The other drafters will also be getting 140 innings from Starters taken while C/J are picked.

C/J/ drafters aren't choosing them for Saves, as much as peripherals. Chapman has never finished in the top five of Saves during any season. Jansen just two times.
As drafters, we give in that we can't predict Saves, so we draft peripherals first.
Mark Melancon has more Saves than any other pitcher over the last two years, but will never be taken ahead of C/J.
Even though racking up the Saves, Melancon is still Aunt Ruth, C/J is the head cheerleader.

Some drafters will not take a Closer in the first 10 rounds or so, preferring to draft their offense and Starters without mucking up their teams with Closers.
These drafters overcompensate sometimes in drafting three Closers.
The thought being that he has a better chance of two surviving the season and he is not giving up on premium hitting or pitching.
A drafter I know did this early last season and lost all three Closers due to under performance in Spring or Managerial decisions before the season started.

Some drafters will draft one Closer and wait for FAAB to pick another. Banking that FAAB will have 15 to 20 Closers available during the season. And year after year, this does happen.
The problem being that money in FAAB is just as important as a draft pick and sometimes more so.

Closers are tough. The best way to have two productive Closers and score a 10 or 11 in your league standings in Saves is to be lucky.
We have to be lucky in that the Closer we choose keeps his job all year.
We have to be lucky in that our Closer sees a lot of chances to Close.
We have to be lucky in that our Closer stays healthy all year.
Luck more than skill guides this category.
Remember, we ourselves give up on drafting the leading guy in the category, preferring to draft K's, WHIP, and ERA first.

I've always thought that the longer a league has drafters that hold off in taking Closers, the better chance that league has of providing an Overall winner.
If C/J were taken in the sixth round in one league, those drafters have a buffet of offensive and starting pitching stats.
When C/J is taken early, it begins a procession of Closers taken uncomfortably early.
KRod becomes an eighth round pick, not because of his talent, but because a drafter is 'covering' a category.

Catchers and Closers have been cursed by all of us.
Necessary Evil's.
Unless we make them not so, like this start.
Tr Turner/Posey/ Chapman/Jansen
It may look satisfying to this drafter that he has eliminated the Catcher/Closer conundrum, but has opened up many sores everywhere else.

How about everybody else?
How do you handle Catchers and Closer's?
Let us know.

[Bjs2025]

In reference to the top portion concerning catchers and specifically Buster Posey, the point of drafting Buster Posey over say, Christian Yelich is that the person replacing Buster Posey, (some made up person named Jett Bandy) is putrid in comparison to Brandon Moss, Jorge Soler, Asivail Garcia, Tyler Naquin, Rajai Davis, Eddie Rosario, etc... It is infinitely easier to make up for missing out on even AJ Pollock for Buster Posey than it is for not having Buster Posey.

[Edwards Kings]

I am with you. I am rarely willing to pull the trigger on the consensus "top" catchers or closers. Then last year....

I decided last year to buy a top closer, just to shake things up. Budged $20. Got one for $20. Wade Davis.

In the Main, I drafted the second catcher off the board, Lucroy (7th round, 10th pick). Except for runs really, he helped my team and was pretty much on "value" 100 picks into the draft, so that worked ok. Waited on my second catcher (Castro) so no so much help there.

In the Main, I had like the 7th closer (Familia) and got the saves. Arguably with the 84 K's the most valuable closer last year. Only Tyson Ross, Stroman, and Wacha went before my next pick. My next closer was Vizcaino, so again, the "second" didn't work out so well.

In short, it is like having to eat your vegetables in order to get dessert. Just something I think you have to do. And Aunt Ruth always gets her kiss....

[DOUGHBOYS]

In reference to the top portion concerning catchers and specifically Buster Posey, the point of drafting Buster Posey over say, Christian Yelich is that the person replacing Buster Posey, (some made up person named Jett Bandy) is putrid in comparison to Brandon Moss, Jorge Soler, Asivail Garcia, Tyler Naquin, Rajai Davis, Eddie Rosario, etc... It is infinitely easier to make up for missing out on even AJ Pollock for Buster Posey than it is for not having Buster Posey.

It would seem that way, but it may not.
Let's use a caveman approach...

The offensive player closest to Posey in ADP is Rougned Odor

Posey .288/82/14/80/6
Odor .271/89/33/88/14

Odor beats him in every category but Batting Average.

Now, I'll be kind in using Bandy, even though I think he heads for even a lower ADP as Spring Training progresses and drafters realize that, at best, he will be sharing catching duties.

Bandy had a .234/23/8/25/1 line.
My friend Joe Mauer is being taken in Bandy territory (say it ain't so, Joe!)
So, we'll give you the benefit and pair Posey with Mauer's stat line of .261/68/11/49/2

In the end we get these stat line pairings....

Posey/Mauer...275/150/25/129/8

Odor/Bandy....262/112/41/113/15

Runs scored is a little misrepresented by the caveman approach as it is now Mauer's best attribute.
Even so, there is not an overwhelming case for the Posey/Mauer pairing. In fact, a lot of drafters would prefer the power from the other tandem.
If giving you Avisail Garcia or Naquin stats, the Posey pairing would not compare very favorably to Odor/Bandy at all.

It is caveman stats stats in the end, but does provide a look/see that one method is not necessarily better than another.

[Yah Mule]

My advice is leave the rookie catchers alone. They have way too much on their plates to worry too much about hitting. From Jesus Montero to Matt Wieters to AJ Hinch, hotshot rookie catchers almost never return value on their draft position or auction price. I'm fairly certain Tom Murphy is going to kick me in the nuts this year, but I'm keeping my investment low.

[headhunters]

dan- just fyi the list of possible drafted catchers (top 30) is fairly static. the bottom 10 will be drafted right around where most drafters that drafted a catcher early will be drafting their last hitter or last pitcher. i guess if you want to go to the extreme you could say round 26-30 for that last catcher- but by then most other drafters will have filled out their 9 pitchers and 14 hitters AND that 14th hitter can be from anywhere. i just like my odds of picking a top 150 hitter from that bunch than a useful catcher from amongst those last 5-10 catchers. to each his own- but if you talk auctions- you must take 2 catchers and the list of $1 non catchers can have some very valuable players.

[headhunters]

yah mule - great point. and now we are in the year of "pitch framing" being everything. some potential hitting studs will no longer catch- herman murphy and scwaber come to mind. and then there is the angels who made about 10 moves that made zero sense to me this offseason- including that catcher trade.

[Yah Mule]

Jett Bandy is just a monster physically. They list him @ 6'4", 235 pounds and he's every bit of that. One of the bigger catchers I've seen. He didn't exactly tear up the PCL at an advanced age, so I'm not too high on a breakout offensively.

[DOUGHBOYS]

You know, in all the years we've been playing this game, I've never heard, "If I had just one more Save, I would have won that league."
I've heard it with homers, K's, etc,,,but Saves seems to spread more than other categories. I don't know the reason.

[DJMDJM]

I love catchers and closers. Spent $102 of $260 on a recent auction team. We'll see how that turns out.
Chapman,Jansen
Lucroy,Brian McCann,Sanchez