A Rod ????

Frank the Tank · Post by **Frank the Tank** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 7:40 am

Just for the record nnoy, keep in mind that not one right handed hitting only Yankee has hit more that 40 ding dongs in a season in over 50 years. In fact, in the past 50 years there have only been 4 right handed hitting Yanks to hit over 30! (Soriano twice, Winfield twice, Tartabull, and Bobby Bonds. A Rod has played his last few years in one of the best hitters parks in the league. Beware of the let down.

BONGIZMO · Post by **BONGIZMO** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 7:58 am

Although true one can expect many more doubles into the gap thus allowing AROD to possibly be on base rather than running around them, might have those steals not disappearing as most have forecasted...

nnoy · Post by **nnoy** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 8:08 am

Originally posted by Frank the Tank:

Just for the record nnoy, keep in mind that not one right handed hitting only Yankee has hit more that 40 ding dongs in a season in over 50 years. In fact, in the past 50 years there have only been 4 right handed hitting Yanks to hit over 30! (Soriano twice, Winfield twice, Tartabull, and Bobby Bonds. A Rod has played his last few years in one of the best hitters parks in the league. Beware of the let down. It sure is nice to see A-rod on 2nd if you own Giambi. Should push his RBI total up by at least 10 this year based on A-rod’s speed alone.

I’m not taunting A-rod to anyone. Getting him on my team was PURE luck. Guys like A. Sanchez that I expect 65-75 SB’s from and made a complete reach for are the players I will tout this year as being pure picks of “genius” (or stupidity perhaps.) I will also be sure to let the teams that left Giambi on the board for me in the 5th while taking players like Mike Piazza not forget that they handed me a gift.

Top Dawg · Post by **Top Dawg** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 8:20 am

nnoy - These guys are a bit jealous. Who cares what A-Rod does or if he was the best pick at the time. He certainly was one of only 2-3 people you could have reasonably taken. The teams in your league that let Giambi drop to round 5 are going to regret letting you get both of those players. I have no problem with you taking Sanchez in round 6 either. Speed was a premium in all the leagues. If you absolutely wanted it you had to reach for it. This is especially true drafting in sopts 1-3 or 13-15 where far too many picks were going to be taken before you got another chance.

Good luck,

Pete

mastering the flow · Post by **mastering the flow** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 8:29 am

NNOY lets compare. would you rather have Jason Giambi and Bard/Greene CA combo or Derek Lee and Mike Piazza/Molina CA combo. If you a such a follower of Shandler you would be aware that Giambi's .250 BA is a result of .192 BA against lefties, and a drop in contact rate and eye, not to mention the fact that he is a total ***** when he is not on steroids. as is the case this year. Don't hate cause you didn't get Derek Lee, Corky.

Dyv · Post by **Dyv** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 8:37 am

Originally posted by Top Dawg:

nnoy - These guys are a bit jealous. Who cares what A-Rod does or if he was the best pick at the time. He certainly was one of only 2-3 people you could have reasonably taken. The teams in your league that let Giambi drop to round 5 are going to regret letting you get both of those players. I have no problem with you taking Sanchez in round 6 either. Speed was a premium in all the leagues. If you absolutely wanted it you had to reach for it. This is especially true drafting in sopts 1-3 or 13-15 where far too many picks were going to be taken before you got another chance.

Good luck,

Pete Jealous of Giambi in the 5th? That's arguably good value, but hardly a fit of jealousy for the first pick in the 5th round to be Giambi - that's only player #61 taken. Where was Giambi on your cheat sheet? I have him at #52 on mine.

I've seen better values already - hardly worth debating, but a point of interest.

Dyv

nnoy · Post by **nnoy** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 8:45 am

Originally posted by Top Dawg:

nnoy - These guys are a bit jealous. Who cares what A-Rod does or if he was the best pick at the time. He certainly was one of only 2-3 people you could have reasonably taken. The teams in your league that let Giambi drop to round 5 are going to regret letting you get both of those players. I have no problem with you taking Sanchez in round 6 either. Speed was a premium in all the leagues. If you absolutely wanted it you had to reach for it. This is especially true drafting in sopts 1-3 or 13-15 where far too many picks were going to be taken before you got another chance.

Good luck,

Pete Thanks Pete, it’s good that someone else out there felt my pain.

My goal is to win my league, if I get lucky enough to finish in the top-10 so be it; if not then I’ll still be satisfied if I’m a league champ. Whomever wins the whole thing will be LUCKY, but wining the league of 15 will incorporate far more skill.

The interesting thing is that multiple teams from Chicago #2 have ripped my team. This group let Sosa slide to 30 and Giambi to 61. I’m sure about half the guys in the NFBC would have taken the EXACT same five players that I did with my first 5 picks. The sad thing is that I seriously debated between Giambi and Sexson at 31, there was NO WAY Giambi would fall back to me. Go figure. (For those that are wondering I DO NOT know these guys and there was no collusion, just take a look at the posts about me, I’ve become quite the popular guy in my league simply for pointing out what about 180 other guys realize.)

nnoy · Post by **nnoy** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 8:53 am

Originally posted by mastering the flow:

NNOY lets compare. would you rather have Jason Giambi and Bard/Greene CA combo or Derek Lee and Mike Piazza/Molina CA combo. If you a such a follower of Shandler you would be aware that Giambi's .250 BA is a result of .192 BA against lefties, and a drop in contact rate and eye, not to mention the fact that he is a total ***** when he is not on steroids. as is the case this year. Don't hate cause you didn't get Derek Lee, Corky. The flaw in your logic is that you are comparing your 3rd, 4th and mid-round picks to my 5th, 28th and 29th. Last time I checked we get stats for 14 hitters not 3.

My plan from the beginning was to punt the C’s and find two players at some point in the season to chip in 10-15 HR’s and not hurt my average at that position.

Use ANY stat projections out there, or last season’s stats, your team is still at best 5th in this league, and not even close to mine. Roto-wise I think I beat you 7-3. That’s based on 9 P’s by the way and does not factor in the 4 SP’s I will rotate in and out of my line-up all season to maximize starts and pick up another 10-15 W’s and 150-200K’s.

Call me “Corky” all you want Kentucky boy. You are playing with the big boys here, you should have realized that before you blew your $1250.

seefer · Post by **seefer** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 8:57 am

Personally, I'd rather have D. Lee instead of Giambi but I am always biased toward the guy who can get you double digit steals. I would easily trade the 5-10 extra HRs that Giambi gives you for the 10-20 SBs that D. Lee will give you. But as I said, I am a sucker for a guy with power and speed.

nnoy · Post by **nnoy** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 8:58 am

Jealous of Giambi in the 5th? That's arguably good value, but hardly a fit of jealousy for the first pick in the 5th round to be Giambi - that's only player #61 taken. Where was Giambi on your cheat sheet? I have him at #52 on mine.

Just curious, how would you rate Sosa at 30, Edmonds at 151, and D. Roberts at 241?

[ March 23, 2004, 02:59 PM: Message edited by: nnoy ]

seefer · Post by **seefer** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 8:59 am

Oh, and I was in league 1 in Chicago. Not #2.

nnoy · Post by **nnoy** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 9:08 am

Originally posted by seefer:

Personally, I'd rather have D. Lee instead of Giambi but I am always biased toward the guy who can get you double digit steals. I would easily trade the 5-10 extra HRs that Giambi gives you for the 10-20 SBs that D. Lee will give you. But as I said, I am a sucker for a guy with power and speed.

Point well taken seefer, but a player’s impact on a team is truly determined by the other players on that team. A shrewd owner knows if he already has 150 SB’s he’s likely to finish at the top of the league in that category, but the extra 10-15 jacks may cost him 4 or 5 roto-points.

The above is why you need to strategize what your final roster will look like WHILE you are drafting. For me the plan was to draft a 40-50 SB guy in round 5 and be sure to add 4 or 5 other players that could get 15-20. So taking a 40 HR guy at the beginning was critical. Unfortunately I miss-calculated the super premium on speed and had to take what was left in the 6th round. But having a player like Dave Roberts last until the 17th made no sense to me.

Chicago League #2 was a game of follow the leader. First the SP’s went, then the speed, then the CL’s, then the C’s, then back to SP’s, it seemed like 10-12 of the guys at the table had no real experience drafting against people that knew what they were doing (no offense to the other 2 guys that definitely KNEW.)

[ March 23, 2004, 03:10 PM: Message edited by: nnoy ]

Frank the Tank · Post by **Frank the Tank** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 9:14 am

Sosa is a solid pick at 31, but lets be truthful. Edmonds is an injury waiting to happen as he always has something nagging and I really dont understand why you are so high on Dave Roberts. Isnt this the same guys they tried to replace with an 80 year old Rickey Henderson last year. A bit of a reach. He is platoon outfielder. He wont steal 40 again.

nnoy · Post by **nnoy** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 9:24 am

Originally posted by seefer:

Oh, and I was in league 1 in Chicago. Not #2. Bet you wish you WERE in #2 huh? I doubt I’d have gotten some of the players I did (in fact you may have changed the entire draft by starting different position runs at different times.)

seefer · Post by **seefer** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 9:30 am

What you are missing nnoy is the fact that you have A. Sanchez and D. Roberts on your team as well as B. Roberts, all three negating your excellent power advantage. Combined the 3 guys might hit 6 HRs and 100 RBI. Ouch. Doesn't it kind of kill the value of your thumpers when you have to play multiple guys that will be lucky to get 1-3 HRs?-----------Of course this is coming from me, I took Beltran at #3 and would have taken him #1 if I had the pick. I also would have taken Soriano ahead of ARod, for the SBs and the fact that ARod's power #s will be down in NY and Soriano's will be up in Texas.

mastering the flow · Post by **mastering the flow** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 9:31 am

no, i talked to everyone at the draft and we were glad you were in league #2 nnoy (punter boy).

seefer · Post by **seefer** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 9:32 am

Well, here were my first several picks: Beltran, Gagne, B. Wagner, Piazza, Bagwell, Shawn Green, Podsednik... I can't remember the order of the rest, I wrote them down in positional order.

[ March 23, 2004, 03:35 PM: Message edited by: seefer ]

seefer · Post by **seefer** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 9:34 am

I also rounded out my roster with guys like Ray Durham, Adam Kennedy, and Corie Koskie. Guys I can get 12-15 HRs and SBs from.-------I forgot to mention above that Bagwell was my 5th pick and Shawn Green was my 6th, etc.

[ March 23, 2004, 03:37 PM: Message edited by: seefer ]

nnoy · Post by **nnoy** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 9:42 am

Originally posted by seefer:

What you are missing nnoy is the fact that you have A. Sanchez and D. Roberts on your team as well as B. Roberts, all three negating your excellent power advantage. Combined the 3 guys might hit 6 HRs and 100 RBI. Ouch. Doesn't it kind of kill the value of your thumpers when you have to play multiple guys that will be lucky to get 1-3 HRs?-----------Of course this is coming from me, I took Beltran at #3 and would have taken him #1 if I had the pick. I also would have taken Soriano ahead of ARod, for the SBs and the fact that ARod's power #s will be down in NY and Soriano's will be up in Texas. Last year the overall champ of the WCOFB went .280 310-1107-128-1117. The two other league winners went .279 286-1050-197-1148 and .282 289-1116-119-1110.

My team projects out 280-300 HR’s depending on whose projections you use and assuming everyone stays healthy (big assumption of course.) This includes projections for Bard and Greene who will both likely be purged at some point. I have Arod (45-50), Sosa (45-50), Sexson (45-50), Giambi (40-45), Edmonds (30-35), Wilkerson (25-30) and a few players that will hit 8-15 like Randa and Erstad. I also hope to find another 10 during the course of the season on the FA wire, and if I build a lead in SB’s I can bench a player like Roberts and play a guy with slightly more pop.

Don’t worry I have not “missed” anything.

Rey · Post by **Rey** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 9:42 am

I feel I gotta chime in here. Nathan, I look at your team and I think you did a very good job. It's a nice team who will probably compete. But the fact of the matter is, everyone has differing opinions...and just because someone else may not agree with yours does not make them wrong. For example, I love the Sexson pick. But I don't agree on Dave Roberts, mainly because new Dodger GM Paul Depodesta may well do what he did in Oakland and basically put a stop to all running. DePodesta makes no bones about his dislike of the stolen base, and will probably put an organization wide ban on excessive aggresiveness on the basepaths. Anyways, the point is, I think it's great that you like your team. I think it's very strong. But suggesting 10-12 people didn't know what they were doing is a bit of a stretch.

nnoy · Post by **nnoy** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 9:52 am

Originally posted by Rey:

I feel I gotta chime in here. Nathan, I look at your team and I think you did a very good job. It's a nice team who will probably compete. But the fact of the matter is, everyone has differing opinions...and just because someone else may not agree with yours does not make them wrong. For example, I love the Sexson pick. But I don't agree on Dave Roberts, mainly because new Dodger GM Paul Depodesta may well do what he did in Oakland and basically put a stop to all running. DePodesta makes no bones about his dislike of the stolen base, and will probably put an organization wide ban on excessive aggresiveness on the basepaths. Anyways, the point is, I think it's great that you like your team. I think it's very strong. But suggesting 10-12 people didn't know what they were doing is a bit of a stretch. Good call Rey. There were likely only 3-4 clueless owners at the table (Mastering the Flow and Frank the Tank fitting the bill for sure.) However, there were at least 20 occasions where players that were gone were thrown and at least 6-7 times where a team’s time expired before they could make a pick. I can understand missing a guy form your list, but letting time run out? And that happened at least 6 times!

I’m not trying to come off as an a–hole and I talked to 3 or 4 of the owners there that were nice guys with solid teams.

But we also have our share of tools (like the Kentucky boy.) I sincerely apologize if I have offended any of the owners that had a strategy different than mine and simply stuck to it.

nnoy · Post by **nnoy** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 9:57 am

By the way the board has its villain: his name is Gordon Geeko, not me. I just take offense to blanket statements that my team sucks or I did not know exactly what I was doing with every pick I made. Especially from guys that will finish in the bottom half of this thing ( yes, I’m talking about you again Mastering the Flow and Frank the Tank)

[ March 23, 2004, 03:57 PM: Message edited by: nnoy ]

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 10:30 am

Originally posted by nnoy:

Don’t worry I have not “missed” anything. Thanks for the laugh.

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 10:32 am

Originally posted by nnoy:

By the way the board has its villain: his name is nnoy, not Gekko. I just take offense to blanket statements that my team sucks or I did not know exactly what I was doing with every pick I made. Especially from guys that will finish in the bottom half of this thing ( yes, I’m talking about you again Mastering the Flow and Frank the Tank) villain = Annoy

entertainer = Gekko

The choice is clear. Thanks for pointing it out Annoy!

nnoy · Post by **nnoy** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 10:57 am

Score one for the Gekko; what’s that make it about 280-1 or 281-1?