Ron Shandler is a wimp!

Walla Walla · Post by **Walla Walla** » Wed May 16, 2007 8:42 am

Four questions I asked about him trying the NFBC on espn. Not one reply. I've heard the answers before about legal problems etc. But alot of his T War people are in the NFBC. I think he is a coward! Auctions are his favorite. Well there is auctions in the NFBC. Come on Ron you Chicken S...

Chest Rockwell · Post by **Chest Rockwell** » Wed May 16, 2007 8:46 am

Originally posted by Walla Walla:

Four questions I asked about him trying the NFBC on espn. Not one reply. I've heard the answers before about legal problems etc. But alot of his T War people are in the NFBC. I think he is a coward! Auctions are his favorite. Well there is auctions in the NFBC. Come on Ron you Chicken S... I am sure Ron finds you to be an uplifting nice person who sees the best in everyone, why would he not I am sure everyone who has ever gotten a chance to observe you felt that way.

Walla Walla · Post by **Walla Walla** » Wed May 16, 2007 8:53 am

Chest, You have never met me. But if you did you'd find I'm a pretty nice guy who respects up front people. I like Greg, I like Tom, I even like Gekko. Ron Shandler I've never met. Of course I probably never will as he doesn't put it on the line with the money players.

Red Sox Nation · Post by **Red Sox Nation** » Wed May 16, 2007 9:39 am

I've met Ron and he's a great person. I don't blame him for not doing the NFBC leagues. Unless he wins the 100K it can only hurt him. He makes a great living off of fantasy baseball. He doesn't need to be in a league with Walla Walla to prove anything.

Edwards Kings · Post by **Edwards Kings** » Wed May 16, 2007 9:56 am

I too have met Ron. I have found him to be very upfront and he has been asked and has answered that quesiton many times. I do not feel Ron is the type of guy who would call someone else a "..coward.." for making what they thought was an informed decision.

I am sure he does not feel he has anything to prove to you or me or the NFBC, which by the way he follows and supports by focusing content on his website and publications directly at NFBC syle rules.

JohnZ · Post by **JohnZ** » Wed May 16, 2007 10:01 am

Originally posted by Edwards Kings:

I too have met Ron. I have found him to be very upfront and he has been asked and has answered that quesiton many times. I do not feel Ron is the type of guy who would call someone else a "..coward.." for making what they thought was an informed decision.

I am sure he does not feel he has anything to prove to you or me or the NFBC, which by the way he follows and supports by focusing content on his website and publications directly at NFBC syle rules. Great post.

This thread should be deleted.

eddiejag · Post by **eddiejag** » Wed May 16, 2007 12:07 pm

I kind of agree with Walla, i wouldnt call Ron a coward , but i do feel he should play with the big dogs, especially the Ultimate, and i dont wont to here how it doesnt help him.He is all set with the way everything is going, playing with the BIG DOGS wont hurt his program.

ToyCannon · Post by **ToyCannon** » Thu May 17, 2007 5:26 am

Seems to me that it would be a conflict of interest. It would be like my broker giving me advice and also competing against me in a stock picking competition. His job is to help us beat the competition not become the competition.

LONG GONE · Post by **LONG GONE** » Thu May 17, 2007 5:37 pm

Maybe if you had 15 teams at 100,000k he might come out and play, but I don't blame him at all for not playing. 1 million to the winner.

sportsbettingman · Post by **sportsbettingman** » Thu May 17, 2007 6:00 pm

Originally posted by BudFox:

Maybe if you had 15 teams at 100,000k he might come out and play, but I don't blame him at all for not playing. 1 million to the winner. Now THAT's giving him credit!

I'd be willing to lay 2 to 1 that in a random NFBC main event league of 15...he doesn't cash in his first attempt.

It's very hard to do.

Why do it when he has built his rep up elsewhere over the years. It's a lose-lose for him unless he wins big. He caters to all league formats.

~Lance

rmurph3 · Post by **rmurph3** » Fri May 18, 2007 6:19 am

Full disclosure: I work for Ron. And I know enough about those ESPN chats to know that the ratio of questions submitted to those responded to is crazy: 2000+ questions an hour, of which Ron answers less than one per minute. Even submitted multiple times, it's highly likely that your question was simply not seen, rather than ignored.

Sheep · Post by **Sheep** » Fri May 18, 2007 8:00 am

I have chatted with Mr. Shandler (Via email forum). I buy his book and might not if I finished ahead of him. I don't see that playing here, unless he finished top 20 as being beneficial. However, you never know, maybe he is playing under an alias - when I look at some teams (noticed it often at Mock Draft Central as I could almost tell you their next pick) I see Shandler stamped all over them.

Hangtown · Post by **Hangtown** » Fri May 18, 2007 10:33 am

from Feb 15, 2006, "Ron Shandler Chatting Here Today":

Originally posted by Tom Kessenich:

We're happy to welcome Ron to our weekly chat sessions. To kick things off, here are his answers to questions submitted ahead of time:

Have you ever competed in the NFBC? If so, how did you do? If not, why?

I have never competed in the NFBC, although several of my writers have.

Despite all the trash talk challenging me to participate, that’s not likely

going to happen. It has nothing to do with the fear of failure like some

suggest; I hold my own wherever I compete. It’s strictly a legal thing. I

was advised by my lawyers a long time ago that, in order to protect my

business and to avoid any perception of impropriety, I should avoid

participating in any public competitions that play for money.

Buster · Post by **Buster** » Fri May 18, 2007 11:31 am

Let me start off with some basic information. I don't know Ron Shandler, and I doubt that I would recognize him if he passed me on the street. I personally don't care if he plays, or if he doesn't play in the NFBC. The league is not better with him, nor is it worse without him.

I do enjoy reading the comments on the message board either calling Mr. Shandler out, or defending him. I especially enjoyed Mr. Shandler's explanation, hiding behind counsel so to speak, as to why he doesn't play in the NFBC.

To put it bluntly, Mr. Shandler must have an extremely conservative lawyer.

"It’s strictly a legal thing. I was advised by my lawyers a long time ago that, in order to protect my business and to avoid any perception of impropriety, I should avoid participating in any public competitions that play for money"

Let's put this into perspective a few different ways.

First off, in the field of fantasy sports, the likes of Todd Zola and Perry Van Hook compete in the NFBC. Last I checked, their site charges money for people to get their opinions.

Matt Berry competed the first year of the NFBC (albeit briefly, as he stunk so badly he abandoned his team mid way through). At the time that Matt competed, I believe that his site was also accepting money for his opinions.

Nate Ravitz (formerly of RotoTimes) competes as well. While he was trying to sell draft kits, Nate was also trying to beat the rest of us in the NFBC.

Gene McCaffrey at Wise Guys Baseball charges $40.00 per year for his information, and he too competes in the NFBC.

There are others as well. Hence, it is clear that a number of the people and sites that charge money for their input actually compete in the NFBC without any real fear of “perceptions of impropriety” or worse yet, a law suit.

Being one of a (large) handful of fantasy baseball playing attorneys, and as I represent a fantasy sports site, I keep my eye on any litigation involving fantasy sports. I have yet to see any litigation regarding any fantasy site giving out information and also competing in money events.

Let's take this one a bit further. Most anyone involved in the stock market has a broker. We pay our broker for consummating our trades, and for giving us information regarding stocks that she/he has researched and feels is likely to go up in value. This, of course, is not a bit different from paying Todd, Perry, Matt, Gene, et. al for information about rookies and young guys who might go up in value.

Do you think that your stock broker makes trades on the market? Of course he/she does, and why not?.

People pay for tips on horse racing. Don't try to claim that these tipsters don't also bet on the races. Listen to any sports station on Sunday morning prior to an NFL game? The airwaves are full of touters claiming inside knowledge and advising you to phone them and for a nominal fee, they have the stone cold, 100 star, game of the century for you. Are these guys allowed to bet as well? Of course.

Is there some impropriety in someone giving advice and then not following all of it him or herself? Do you really think that every tip you get is followed by the person giving the tip? An NFBC team is but 30 players.

I've competed against Mr. Zola, Mr. Van Hook, Mr. Ravitz, Mr. McCaffrey and the likes over the first few years of the NFBC. Some have had more success than others. Have any been sued? Are their sites still going strong, and in some case even stronger due to their courage in competing in such a public forum with 300 other fanatics? You know the answer already.

Mr. Shandler can espouse any reason he so desires for not competing. It is his right to compete or not to compete. However, to cower behind his attorney doesn’t seem like the forthright way to go.

Then again, this is just one man's opinion.

Buster H., ESQ.

sportsbettingman · Post by **sportsbettingman** » Fri May 18, 2007 2:07 pm

Very good post, Buster. I agree.

~Lance

viper · Post by **viper** » Sun May 20, 2007 3:00 am

Just a point or two here.

If Shandler was in the main event and several side events, would you feel 100% comfortable that he was not holding back a bit on sleepers.

Also, his site does many projections. I am sure that these are combined opinions of several knowledgeable people and some projections are not totally agreed with by Shandler himself but the majority rules against him. If you were a paid subscriber and saw Ron drafting against his sites projections on a few players [that you selected] wouldn't you be mildly upset and confused.

I have attended his forums for three years. These had Ron, several of his staff people, Todd Zola and others from different sites. Based on their answers to questions at the end of these forums, I do believe that these well-known people have there own opinions on players that don't always match what their sites say. And they do answer all the questions including those on the NFBC.

It is possible that Shandler's legal advice is on the very conservative side of the issue but it is the advice he has been given. Given the size of his business, only a fool would ignore that advice.

BigHurt · Post by **BigHurt** » Sun May 20, 2007 5:54 pm

Buster's analysis was well done and I agree that Shandler can do whatever he wants, but if that advice truly came from his lawyer, I hope it was business advice and not legal advice. His decision not to play seems like a wise business move, but I don't see much potential for liability.

In my mind, the analogies Buster used don't quite fit. Betting on stocks, horses and football picks are different than a fantasy baseball league. Your broker, tipster, and NFL-picker-guy can act on their own advice without directly harming you. You both bet, you both win. If your fantasy baseball guru joined your league, stole your picks and edged you out of the money, that would be different.

Personally, it would **** me off and I would find a new guru. This and all the other reasons in this thread seem like very good business reasons for Shandler to not play, but not legal reasons.

sportsbettingman · Post by **sportsbettingman** » Sun May 20, 2007 6:02 pm

The idea that folks willing to invest 1400 bucks need a guru who has not proven himself at high stakes fantasy sports is another angle.

I'd guess he has plenty of minions that do play...with or without his approval...and if these folks ever have great success...I'm sure we will hear about it...someday.

~Lance (Not recalling any winner of the NFBC Main event, NFFC main event, nor WCOFF Main event that was a guru at the time of the win.)

[ May 21, 2007, 12:16 AM: Message edited by: sportsbettingman ]

Kevin D · Post by **Kevin D** » Mon May 21, 2007 3:15 am

Walla !! How about this one!!!

End the speculation of who the best players are. Industry guys or NFBC competitors?

Invite the "The Old Boys Network" of experts, who play in the "Fraternity Leagues" of the Industry Like LABR, and Tout Wars to compete in the NFBC in a "Side League". The 15 "Experts' would draft on the same day, use the same rules, and have their stats included in the "Overall", Demarcated with a different Color/Font and not be eligible for prise money, Or they could play for their favorite charity.

Personally I applaud, Gene McCaffery, Todd Zola, Jeff Peters, Nate Ravitz, et al., and any other industry guys I'm unaware of for competing in the NFBC. They would also be allowed to continue fielding their privately held teams.

How good can the "Experts" be? Sam Walker, a Wall Street Journal, SPORTS WRITER??!??, chronicles his first season playing in "Tout Wars" in the hilariuos, extremly well written, entertaining, must read, "Fantasyland" (now available in paperback.) He WON!! the title the following year.

So how 'bout it Greg. Bring it up at the next Fantasy Sports Trade Conference. Have they got the moxie some of their peers exhibit or are they a bunch of geeks who lucked into an industry at the right time and are too busy running the cash registers to be players anymore. Or maybe it's ego, or some psyco/social affliction of the computer generation, or fear of failure, or Global Warming!!! LOL!!

But lets settle it and raise some $$$ for deserving causes.

Kevin D · Post by **Kevin D** » Mon May 21, 2007 5:16 am

Jack Cust wants to play in the main event next year. Is he eligible?

JEagle · Post by **JEagle** » Mon May 21, 2007 8:56 am

Who cares if the so called experts play??? There is plenty of top notch competiton with or without them ...if Shandler doesn't want to play then good for him..it seems if he doesn't play he gets ripped and if he does play and doesn't do well then he will get ripped..I'm sure that there are plenty of people in these leagues that could be deemed experts if they had their own websites and that so called experts could never beat...it is what it is so why push it.

Walla Walla · Post by **Walla Walla** » Mon May 21, 2007 1:37 pm

Kevin D, That is a really good idea. Let the experts play in a seperate league under the same rules as the NFBC. 15 team, big money league. There's so many so called expert leagues that don't cost the players anything but pride. Put it out far enough that they all could plan for it.

Let them place 5000 to enter. Make sure no Money players can enter. Sorry Eddie and Shawn.

Could be an event in its self.

Walla Walla · Post by **Walla Walla** » Tue May 22, 2007 7:43 am

For someone who is above playing in the NFBC Ron Shandler sure spends alot of time reading the Message Boards.Yes Ron I see you signing in all the time. No comments of course. You have to pay for those on his web site. I stick by my guns. Shandler is scared to death of the NFBC.

For those arguements that he doesn't need to. B.S. Your not the best until you play the best.

Jackstraw · Post by **Jackstraw** » Tue May 22, 2007 2:19 pm

Not trying to be sarcastic, but Kevin that is a damn good idea. I usually get to Vegas on Thursday and crash until Friday night. It would be cool to get to Vegas on Thursday and watch a real experts draft. I know you can always go and watch the Ultimate drafts. But that is just whoever has the most money to spend. Watching the bignames draft live would be pretty awesome. Hell, if I was Greg, I would probably set microphones up so that an audience can hear, make sure there is enough room for an audience, and then contract out to ESPN, MLB, XM, whoever, to broadcast the draft. I think it would be pretty darn successful and entertaining. Hell, call it the All-Star draft and let people pick who should be in the league.

Regardless, the magazine drafts are fun to read but they need to be brought up to another level. I think the thing that sets the NFBC apart from any other competition is the way that the live draft is handled. Live draft some of these magazine drafts or have a bunch of bignames do a draft live. However, do it when we're all together for our Main Event. Hell, set one up in each city with Las Vegas being the league for the biggestnames (sorry New York).

Kevin D · Post by **Kevin D** » Wed May 23, 2007 4:19 am

George--- Yea I think it would be a fun thing all around and promote the industry. Personally, I would want them to draft in unison with the main event leagues. The issue of hearing players being taken in other leagues and thus affecting play in others has been discussed on the MB. There isn't a workable fix so it will remain an issue. Would it affect the experts? Would other players get "Rabbit Ears"? Great fun, level playing field, $$$ for good causes, and Ron S. wouldn't be subjected to Walla's vitrol which IMO he doesn't deserve. Shandler's site is a must read as far as I'm concerned. Many owners are influenced by his work and I feel you need to be aware of those possible influences. Particularly on Draft Day and for FAAB Bidding.