Mark Reynolds Is A SS In The NFBC

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Mark Reynolds Is A SS In The NFBC

Post by King of Queens » Mon May 21, 2007 2:27 pm

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

quote:Originally posted by King of Queens:

quote:Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

quote:Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

quote:Originally posted by Buster:



My NFBC Zone column on CREATiVESPORTS.com due out this week deals with both Cust and Reynolds, and while it pains me to be in agreement with you, I do agree that this was less than a perfect situation. Do you agree with me on cust, reynolds, or both. If you need an interview or have questions for me for your article, shoot me a PM. Thanks.
[/QUOTE]Yes and please contact me Scott. I can't imagine this article without talking to the person who made the decisions on each move.
[/QUOTE]Perhaps a good follow-up article to the one already written...
[/QUOTE]I guess it makes for a better story without quotes. I'm too much of an old-fashioned journalist, I guess. Oh, and Fielder pinch-hit 30 times that year. That would have embellished that side of the story even more with the right number.
[/QUOTE]Looks like an Op-Ed piece to me :D

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Mark Reynolds Is A SS In The NFBC

Post by Greg Ambrosius » Mon May 21, 2007 2:27 pm

Originally posted by CC's Desperados:

[QUOTE]If you did by utilty, you were just assuming he a third baseman. Most likely, you didn't even know until he was on your team. And now you want a rebate....Why? Because you didn't take time to do your homework. Or is it you feel slighted and you are looking for another axe to grind? Shawn, if you searched by Utility for Reynolds, did it show any position at all? Was 3B even visible that way? Just wondering because I heard one version of what was visible when you searched that way and want to make sure. Thanks.



By the way, I have asked STATS to delete the designation where a player is playing. It serves no purpose for the NFBC and I hope it's a field they can eliminate easily. Showing Matthews at CF doesn't help our players at all and if it leads to any confusion it shouldn't be there. I'll post when/if STATS can do this for us.
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Mark Reynolds Is A SS In The NFBC

Post by Gordon Gekko » Mon May 21, 2007 2:29 pm

Originally posted by CC's Desperados:

It looks like you a day late and a dollar short. You decided at 7:20 to add "I might pitched Germano". It wasn't in your post 7:19. You added it a minute later. You know everything to know about Jack Cust, but you failed to your homework on Reynolds.....If you did it by search before you put your bid in, it was your ignorance for not reading what was right in front of you. If you did by utilty, you were just assuming he a third baseman. Most likely, you didn't even know until he was on your team. And now you want a rebate....Why? Because you didn't take time to do your homework. Or is it you feel slighted and you are looking for another axe to grind? WTF are you talking about? i said that i'd play germano over guthrie. my exact words are, "If I had germano, I'd start him over guthrie for this week." it's right in the transacript a couple posts back. i'd suggest you read the posts more carefully rather than rushing to Greg's aid all the time.



as for reynolds, other particiapants seemed confused to Reynolds eligibility as well, as STATS had him with a 3B by his name. Am I not to trust STATS? it's kinda puzzling to me that you seem to be more concerned with rushing to greg's aid than improving and fixing weaknesses in the NFBC game play and rules.

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Mark Reynolds Is A SS In The NFBC

Post by Greg Ambrosius » Mon May 21, 2007 2:30 pm

Originally posted by King of Queens:

Looks like an Op-Ed piece to me :D [/QB][/quote]


Nah, GG writes in the old fashioned Op-Ed tone. :D Just like a crusty old editor!! :D
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Mark Reynolds Is A SS In The NFBC

Post by CC's Desperados » Mon May 21, 2007 2:31 pm

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

quote:Originally posted by CC's Desperados:

[QUOTE]If you did by utilty, you were just assuming he a third baseman. Most likely, you didn't even know until he was on your team. And now you want a rebate....Why? Because you didn't take time to do your homework. Or is it you feel slighted and you are looking for another axe to grind? Shawn, if you searched by Utility for Reynolds, did it show any position at all? Was 3B even visible that way? Just wondering because I heard one version of what was visible when you searched that way and want to make sure. Thanks.



By the way, I have asked STATS to delete the designation where a player is playing. It serves no purpose for the NFBC and I hope it's a field they can eliminate easily. Showing Matthews at CF doesn't help our players at all and if it leads to any confusion it shouldn't be there. I'll post when/if STATS can do this for us.
[/QUOTE]No, It list them by name and stats....no position. It been like that since the beginning.

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Post by CC's Desperados » Mon May 21, 2007 2:32 pm

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

quote:Originally posted by CC's Desperados:

It looks like you a day late and a dollar short. You decided at 7:20 to add "I might pitched Germano". It wasn't in your post 7:19. You added it a minute later. You know everything to know about Jack Cust, but you failed to your homework on Reynolds.....If you did it by search before you put your bid in, it was your ignorance for not reading what was right in front of you. If you did by utilty, you were just assuming he a third baseman. Most likely, you didn't even know until he was on your team. And now you want a rebate....Why? Because you didn't take time to do your homework. Or is it you feel slighted and you are looking for another axe to grind? WTF are you talking about? i said that i'd play germano over guthrie. my exact words are, "If I had germano, I'd start him over guthrie for this week." it's right in the transacript a couple posts back. i'd suggest you read the posts more carefully rather than rushing to Greg's aid all the time.



as for reynolds, other particiapants seemed confused to Reynolds eligibility as well, as STATS had him with a 3B by his name. Am I not to trust STATS? it's kinda puzzling to me that you seem to be more concerned with rushing to greg's aid than improving and fixing weaknesses in the NFBC game play and rules.
[/QUOTE]I read you post before you went back and added it a minute later. I was on-line at the time.

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Mark Reynolds Is A SS In The NFBC

Post by nydownunder » Mon May 21, 2007 2:37 pm

Somehow Gekko I reckon you posted your FAAB prior to 4pm EST (SD vs Seattle game started), yet you need to pick at this 3B issues because you wanted Germano back after the fact (another good game). I am sure Greg won't do it, but I am sure STATS could give us a time stamp on your FAAB edits Sunday. Perhaps that would shut you up a bit.
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Mark Reynolds Is A SS In The NFBC

Post by Gordon Gekko » Mon May 21, 2007 2:39 pm

Originally posted by nydownunder:

Somehow Gekko I reckon you posted your FAAB prior to 4pm EST (SD vs Seattle game started), yet you need to pick at this 3B issues because you wanted Germano back after the fact (another good game). I am sure Greg won't do it, but I am sure STATS could give us a time stamp on your FAAB edits Sunday. Perhaps that would shut you up a bit. perhaps it would shut you up if you knew i was entering bids through 7pm and did in fact see germano's good outing.



thanks.

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Post by Red Sox Nation » Mon May 21, 2007 2:43 pm

Am I the only one who can't wait to see the stats this week of Mark Reynolds, Guthrie, and Germano?
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Post by nydownunder » Mon May 21, 2007 2:43 pm

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

quote:Originally posted by nydownunder:

Somehow Gekko I reckon you posted your FAAB prior to 4pm EST (SD vs Seattle game started), yet you need to pick at this 3B issues because you wanted Germano back after the fact (another good game). I am sure Greg won't do it, but I am sure STATS could give us a time stamp on your FAAB edits Sunday. Perhaps that would shut you up a bit. perhaps it would shut you up if you knew i was entering bids through 7pm and did in fact see germano's good outing.



thanks.
[/QUOTE]That could take away half of my point, but it still wouldn't erase the fact this issue is tinier than a beez' d*ck! Doesn't your dog give you enough attention during the day?
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Mark Reynolds Is A SS In The NFBC

Post by King of Queens » Mon May 21, 2007 2:45 pm

Originally posted by Red Sox Nation:

Am I the only one who can't wait to see the stats this week of Mark Reynolds, Guthrie, and Germano? As an owner of all three, I am pretty excited to see if they can "keep it going"

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Post by Gordon Gekko » Mon May 21, 2007 2:51 pm

Originally posted by nydownunder:

Doesn't your dog give you enough attention during the day? no. that's why you exist.

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Mark Reynolds Is A SS In The NFBC

Post by CC's Desperados » Mon May 21, 2007 3:19 pm

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:



as for reynolds, other particiapants seemed confused to Reynolds eligibility as well, as STATS had him with a 3B by his name. Am I not to trust STATS? it's kinda puzzling to me that you seem to be more concerned with rushing to greg's aid than improving and fixing weaknesses in the NFBC game play and rules. [/QB]You aren't looking to improve and fixing weaknesses at the moment. You want Cust to be DH only now.



I think it is funny that we have a list of players before the draft and we know where the are eligible at. We might not agree with it as in Fielder, but a player gets added to the free agent list. He is listed as an outfielder. Every owner has a shot at him for just about nothing. Maybe, he should be a DH, but that isn't the point here...The point is every owner had a equal shot to pick him up. Some saw value, but most didn't. On Monday, one person question his position...one out of 375. Greg made ruling before he turned into Babe Ruth. A week goes by...a second free agent period is processed...huge bids on a hot guy...still no one question it until your parade.



The Fielder issue: everyone had a piece of paper telling them he was UT only.



The Cust issue: everyone had a equal chance to pick him up. And that is the bottom line...equal.



If you want to get the rules changed to better clarify, no problem. If you want run around like someone is getting screwed, I have a problem. If there is a tough call, I'm sure Greg makes it with the best intent for the league.



[ May 21, 2007, 09:22 PM: Message edited by: CC's Desperados ]

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Post by Spyhunter » Mon May 21, 2007 3:58 pm

Originally posted by CC's Desperados:

quote:Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

quote:Originally posted by CC's Desperados:

[QUOTE]If you did by utilty, you were just assuming he a third baseman. Most likely, you didn't even know until he was on your team. And now you want a rebate....Why? Because you didn't take time to do your homework. Or is it you feel slighted and you are looking for another axe to grind? Shawn, if you searched by Utility for Reynolds, did it show any position at all? Was 3B even visible that way? Just wondering because I heard one version of what was visible when you searched that way and want to make sure. Thanks.



By the way, I have asked STATS to delete the designation where a player is playing. It serves no purpose for the NFBC and I hope it's a field they can eliminate easily. Showing Matthews at CF doesn't help our players at all and if it leads to any confusion it shouldn't be there. I'll post when/if STATS can do this for us.
[/QUOTE]No, It list them by name and stats....no position. It been like that since the beginning.
[/QUOTE]Not quite true. For example, if you go lookup someone on the utility list and then put in a bid you get the following:



Pending Waiver Bids

Add Bid Drop Action

1. Dmitri Young (1B) [Edit] $1 Jeff Baker (RF) [Edit] Delete | Copy

Add Conditional Bid ?



Note the position after the name. I have multiple times seen this in error over the years.



Spy

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Mark Reynolds Is A SS In The NFBC

Post by CC's Desperados » Mon May 21, 2007 4:05 pm

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

i've explained what happened with my bidding on reynolds at least twice. STATS had him listed as a 3B and he's even playing 3B for the diamondbacks. i secured him with a $1 bid last night and tried to put him in as 3B but STATS wouldn't let me. I come to find out that STATS listed Reynolds as a 3B incorrectly.



i've asked last night and today for the transaction to be rescinded as i didn't need a SS (although i value him slight higher than a.gonzalez this week), he was not worth dropping germano for. i already had 2 SS for this week.



now lineups have locked and reynolds is still on my team?!? i haven't received an email or MB post from the NFBC addressing my request. i wonder if i'm being punished for my non-agreement on the Cust ruling or if the customer service was lacking today. either way the frustration mounts on this end. esp since i was strongly considering starting germano over guthrie this week. I find this even more amussing when I see Reynolds as your startin shortstop. If you really wanted him off your team, it might help if you had him on your bench. So much for the germano side of the story.....

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Mark Reynolds Is A SS In The NFBC

Post by CC's Desperados » Mon May 21, 2007 4:10 pm

Originally posted by Spyhunter:

quote:Originally posted by CC's Desperados:

quote:Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

quote:Originally posted by CC's Desperados:

[QUOTE]If you did by utilty, you were just assuming he a third baseman. Most likely, you didn't even know until he was on your team. And now you want a rebate....Why? Because you didn't take time to do your homework. Or is it you feel slighted and you are looking for another axe to grind? Shawn, if you searched by Utility for Reynolds, did it show any position at all? Was 3B even visible that way? Just wondering because I heard one version of what was visible when you searched that way and want to make sure. Thanks.



By the way, I have asked STATS to delete the designation where a player is playing. It serves no purpose for the NFBC and I hope it's a field they can eliminate easily. Showing Matthews at CF doesn't help our players at all and if it leads to any confusion it shouldn't be there. I'll post when/if STATS can do this for us.
[/QUOTE]No, It list them by name and stats....no position. It been like that since the beginning.
[/QUOTE]Not quite true. For example, if you go lookup someone on the utility list and then put in a bid you get the following:



Pending Waiver Bids

Add Bid Drop Action

1. Dmitri Young (1B) [Edit] $1 Jeff Baker (RF) [Edit] Delete | Copy

Add Conditional Bid ?



Note the position after the name. I have multiple times seen this in error over the years.



Spy
[/QUOTE]There isn't any position on the utility list PAGE only players and stats.

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Mark Reynolds Is A SS In The NFBC

Post by KJ Duke » Mon May 21, 2007 4:18 pm

I don't see how/why Greg could/would rescind a transaction because a player was mis-labeled but did not show up on the 3b-eligible list. Aren't we all used to those labels being incorrect on a regular basis by now?



If I need a 3B, I sort by 3B's on the FA list and bid accordingly. GG, misfortunate you relied on that meaningless label rather than pulling down the list of eligible 3bs, but I can't say that I agree anything should be un-done. Seems to me Greg is making a good decision in eliminating those labels to avoid confusion and also not acting to reverse a transaction.



[ May 21, 2007, 10:20 PM: Message edited by: KJ Duke ]

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Post by Hangtown » Mon May 21, 2007 4:29 pm

There isn't any position on the utility list PAGE only players and stats. It shows positions when you click on his name. But in Marks defense, Reynolds was listed as 3B on Sunday.



But, if you researched further and went to the 3B rankings page he couldn't be found... He was however on the SS rankings page. That told me he wasn't eligible and since Sunday was only Reynolds 5th game at third, I decided to pass on him, as I'm sure others did as well? or not?



Bottom line is Greg and Stats made the ruling earlier in the week and that's good enough for me as I felt he was only SS eligible any ways.
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Mark Reynolds Is A SS In The NFBC

Post by Buster » Mon May 21, 2007 5:27 pm

Greg:



Nice pot shot, "I guess it makes for a better story without quotes. I'm too much of an old-fashioned journalist, I guess."



With respect to Fielder's pinch hitting appearances, you are correct, inexplicably, I made an error in presenting the correct number of times that Fielder pinch hit. It was certainly not intended, nor did it change anything of substance in the column. I did not need to misrepresent the actual number of pinch hitting appearances to demonstrate how poorly this matter was handled.



The truth is quite clear. The NFBC created a precedent previously, and then chose not to follow that precedent.



As a litigator, I have been taught to distinguish anything. You can distinguish the precedent by explaining that one was done preseason (Castro and Fielder), and that Cust was during the season. However, that is a distinction without any difference. The key here isn't what might have been going on in your or Tom's thought process, but instead what was going on in the participants heads when they were considering bidding on Cust and Reynolds.



If one looks back at the rationale behind the Castro and Fielder decisions, and then considers that Cust played only two innings in the outfield in 2006, one could reasonably expect that the prior precedents would be followed. Others might assume that as Cust played two innings in the outfield in 2006, then he qualifies in the outfield. Therein lies the problem.



The bottom line is that there was confusion by the participants, and this confusion was certainly not the fault of the participants.



As a participant in the NFBC, how am I (or anyone else) to know if the NFBC is going to follow the written rules or the prior precedent? The simple answer is that there is no way for any of us to be sure, absent sending you or Tom a message. That should not be the case.



CREATiVESPORTS.com is a huge proponent of the NFBC. We publish an Opinion Editorial (the NFBC Zone) on a weekly basis, with the participating writers and Lawr Michaels taking turns writing about their thoughts, experiences, trials and travails. Often, we promote the NFBC. On occasion, we may point out perceived flaws.



I am certainly not the journalist that you are. The vast majority of my writing is legal briefs for courts across the country. I don't often include quotes in those briefs.



Quite frankly, with respect to my Op-Ed column, I did not see the need to include quotes from you, Gekko, or any of the participants who may have been negatively impacted due to what I believe was a series of botched decisions. That was my decision, and seeing that it was a column about my thoughts, I think that the decision was correct.



I do not take pot shots at you, Tom, or anyone else in the NFBC family (with the exception of Gekko who I once called an Internet troll).



I am sorry that you did not like my column. I did not like your decisions on Cust/Reynolds. You may like to know that originally I was going to write about the arbitrariness and capriciousness of the Friday DL rule, but the Cust/Reynolds issues seemed much more compelling.



By the way, if you do a search for "Reynolds" even tonight, here is what you get:



Players with Last Name's beginning with 'reynolds'.

Mark Reynolds - 3B - Ari



Shane Reynolds - MR - Ari



While Shane Reynolds certainly may be a middle reliever, I think that it is clear, NOW, that Reynolds is not yet a third basemen.



For what it is worth, I did not bid on either Cust or Reynolds, so I have no personal agenda in this matter either way.



Buster H., Esq.

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Post by Chest Rockwell » Mon May 21, 2007 5:35 pm

Originally posted by Buster:

Greg:



Nice pot shot, "I guess it makes for a better story without quotes. I'm too much of an old-fashioned journalist, I guess."



With respect to Fielder's pinch hitting appearances, you are correct, inexplicably, I made an error in presenting the correct number of times that Fielder pinch hit. It was certainly not intended, nor did it change anything of substance in the column. I did not need to misrepresent the actual number of pinch hitting appearances to demonstrate how poorly this matter was handled.



The truth is quite clear. The NFBC created a precedent previously, and then chose not to follow that precedent.



As a litigator, I have been taught to distinguish anything. You can distinguish the precedent by explaining that one was done preseason (Castro and Fielder), and that Cust was during the season. However, that is a distinction without any difference. The key here isn't what might have been going on in your or Tom's thought process, but instead what was going on in the participants heads when they were considering bidding on Cust and Reynolds.



If one looks back at the rationale behind the Castro and Fielder decisions, and then considers that Cust played only two innings in the outfield in 2006, one could reasonably expect that the prior precedents would be followed. Others might assume that as Cust played two innings in the outfield in 2006, then he qualifies in the outfield. Therein lies the problem.



The bottom line is that there was confusion by the participants, and this confusion was certainly not the fault of the participants.



As a participant in the NFBC, how am I (or anyone else) to know if the NFBC is going to follow the written rules or the prior precedent? The simple answer is that there is no way for any of us to be sure, absent sending you or Tom a message. That should not be the case.



CREATiVESPORTS.com is a huge proponent of the NFBC. We publish an Opinion Editorial (the NFBC Zone) on a weekly basis, with the participating writers and Lawr Michaels taking turns writing about their thoughts, experiences, trials and travails. Often, we promote the NFBC. On occasion, we may point out perceived flaws.



I am certainly not the journalist that you are. The vast majority of my writing is legal briefs for courts across the country. I don't often include quotes in those briefs.



Quite frankly, with respect to my Op-Ed column, I did not see the need to include quotes from you, Gekko, or any of the participants who may have been negatively impacted due to what I believe was a series of botched decisions. That was my decision, and seeing that it was a column about my thoughts, I think that the decision was correct.



I do not take pot shots at you, Tom, or anyone else in the NFBC family (with the exception of Gekko who I once called an Internet troll).



I am sorry that you did not like my column. I did not like your decisions on Cust/Reynolds. You may like to know that originally I was going to write about the arbitrariness and capriciousness of the Friday DL rule, but the Cust/Reynolds issues seemed much more compelling.



By the way, if you do a search for "Reynolds" even tonight, here is what you get:



Players with Last Name's beginning with 'reynolds'.

Mark Reynolds - 3B - Ari



Shane Reynolds - MR - Ari



While Shane Reynolds certainly may be a middle reliever, I think that it is clear, NOW, that Reynolds is not yet a third basemen.



For what it is worth, I did not bid on either Cust or Reynolds, so I have no personal agenda in this matter either way.



Buster H., Esq.
That boy sure is proud of the fact that is a lawyer, the over/under for the times he mentions it in a post is 2.4- in the last one hope you bet the over Lance.

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Post by Buster » Mon May 21, 2007 6:11 pm

I'd take the over.



ESQ

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Post by Gordon Gekko » Tue May 22, 2007 12:03 am

Originally posted by CC's Desperados:

I find this even more amussing when I see Reynolds as your startin shortstop. If you really wanted him off your team, it might help if you had him on your bench. So much for the germano side of the story..... shawn - you being greg's yes-man is really blinding you here. at 7pm last night i had to make the best call for my weekly lineup with the players on my roster. reynolds was still there as I noted. i also said i valued him slightly more than a.gonzalez for this week. which is why reynolds is starting for me.



so much for you looking at facts you know...the STATS SNAFU by listing Reynolds as a 3B and the fact there was ZERO follow-up by the NFBC regarding my request before lineups are due.

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Post by Gordon Gekko » Tue May 22, 2007 12:05 am

Originally posted by KJ Duke:

GG, misfortunate you relied on that meaningless label rather than pulling down the list of eligible 3bsso because i relied on STATS position designation RIGHT NEXT TO HIS NAME, I'm in error?

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Post by Gordon Gekko » Tue May 22, 2007 12:14 am

Originally posted by CC's Desperados:

On Monday, one person question his position...one out of 375. i am very curious to know what greg told this person regarding Cust's elgibility back then to see if it matches up to what he is saying now. basically, did the fact that the bids were already processed factor in the decision to keep Cust as an OF?



greg - would you be able to field that question?

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Post by Greg Ambrosius » Tue May 22, 2007 1:00 am

Buster, there were no pot shots intended. But I would assume even lawyers would want to talk to the defendent before representing them in a court of law. I certainly offered my services if you wanted to talk to me. Why would you get offended by that? In fact, why wouldn't you want to find out as much as possible behind our decisions on each case? In fact, why wouldn't Gekko just pick up the phone and call me if he wanted more information? Again, I'm old fashioned as the ol' telephone seemed like such a useful tool in the 1990s.



CreativeSports has been the best supporter of the NFBC and continues to be. The weekly columns are excellent, including this one. I have absolutely no problem with any story that finds faults in any of our decisions or processes as it can only help us improve the contest in the future. Everything we learned from this past week will be fine-tuned as you and others have suggested.



Again, call me anytime.
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