$1 Million Bonus For 2009 NFBC??

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 10:48 am

In 2009, we will officially be partnering with NBC Sports/Rotoworld.com for baseball and will add to our list of offerings. During the 2008 football season, we added a 12-team main event to our 14-team NFFC main event and provided two $100,000 grand prizes and a $1 million bonus to anyone who can win both main events. While we didn't sell out either event, we did create some hype and finished with 308 main event teams in the 14-team format and 252 teams in the 12-team format. A total of 163 owners are playing in both events and have a shot at the $1 million bonus.

To be honest, the concept makes a lot of sense for football as drafts last a little more than two hours and you can do both main events in one day. Operationally, it was also easy as we had plenty of facilitators for both events and the hotels allowed us to have the ballrooms for the entire day on Saturday. This was enough of a success for us to plan on doing this in football for future years.

Now, how can we use this same type of concept for baseball and make it work without disrupting what we already have? Could we possibly host two main events on the same day: a 15-team NFBC main event followed by a 12-team NBC Sports main event?? Would it be too much to ask to try one of these on Friday night followed by the other main event on Saturday?? Would it be better to create an online championship after the NFBC main event and team that contest up with the live draft for a shot at a $1 million bonus?

Those are tough questions and ones I need to answer soon. I have an idea of what I'd like to do, but it's not easy to fit everything in during this short "holiday" weekend!

But offering a $1 million bonus to anyone who can win two national contests with differing formats (15 teams and 12 teams) is interesting to me. It's also costly as I have to buy insurance for that annuity, but the concept is too good to ignore!

I need to see if this is possible.

One thing to note about this: The idea of a 12-team main event is good for adding a second event for our current players, but it also could be a live event that allows new players to enter at a lower price. I am looking at a $750 price range for this entry fee and obviously a much lower grand prize while still having solid league prizes. So it will be a format that could invite new players to try out our live baseball events.

Okay, so here's the feedback I need from you:

1. Should we leave Friday as the day for NL, AL and Mixed Auction Leagues? Or would you consider a timeframe that allows auction leagues in the morning on Friday and the 12-team main event on Friday night? Or is asking folks to arrive on two separate days for the main events just too much?

2. Is it possible to host two baseball main events on the same day (Saturday) or is that just too much? The idea would be to start the NFBC drafts an hour earlier than past years and do the 12-team main event 2 1/2 hours later. Remember, the 12-teamer drafts 90 less players and thus should be done in 3-3.5 hours. But is that still too much for us humans to tackle in one day?

3. Does it make more sense to combine the NFBC main event with an online championship after Draft Day with a bonus prize? But if so, what would be a meaningful price range for an online contest? $350? $500? $750? Remember, if the entry level is too low, the cost of paying for the insurance and overall prizes takes a hit, so this isn't as easy an option as some would think. And do you host these over several days?? We'd obviously have to.

4. Should we leave Sunday's for the Ultimates and Supers or should we consider that for a second main event? What actually is the best time this year to host the Supers??

I think that should do it. I'm interested in expanding our main events with a 12-team format. I'm interested in expanding online. And I like the lure and publicity of a $1 million bonus. Give me some feedback and we'll make this happen together. Thanks all.

KJ Duke · Post by **KJ Duke** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:12 pm

1. Should we leave Friday as the day for NL, AL and Mixed Auction Leagues? I like Friday's being reserved for auctions. I can do two of them, then have a chance to re-orient myself for a draft the next day. Don't think I'd do two auctions and a main event in one day.

2. Is it possible to host two baseball main events on the same day (Saturday) or is that just too much? The idea would be to start the NFBC drafts an hour earlier than past years and do the 12-team main event 2 1/2 hours later.

Two baseball drafts on Saturday would be just as perfect as two football drafts! But start them before 10am in Vegas and you will lose people. It's Vegas, very few people will want to start that early, let it run longer into the day and you'll get far less complaints.

3. Does it make more sense to combine the NFBC main event with an online championship after Draft Day with a bonus prize? But if so, what would be a meaningful price range for an online contest? $350? $500? $750? And do you host these over several days?? I like the idea of the bonus for the two live drafts better, but I'd also like to play an online championship. The online game should be lower cost, allowing you to reach the mass market (where the NBC advertising should work better) and create a minor lge system of future NFBC players. If you go above the $250-350 range you won't reach these players. Multi-team discounts would help get the numbers up. I think these could be run from the beginning of pre-season up until the main event. WCOFF did that in football this year, its a nice draw to be able to draft both early and late.

4. Should we leave Sunday's for the Ultimates and Supers or should we consider that for a second main event? What actually is the best time this year to host the Supers?? Keep Sundays as is!

bjoak · Post by **bjoak** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:13 pm

Don't know about Friday night, but Friday evening in Vegas would be good. Draft at 5 and you're just filling up the hours between the pool and going out. Skip the shower and nap and you lose 0 time from your vacation. And if it's at four or five you can have the other cities go simultaneously. Drafting at 7 in New York would be no different than going to a Friday night Yankee game. Plus, you are still able to have auctions earlier in the day. Seems like a perfect fit to me.

bjoak · Post by **bjoak** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:16 pm

I like Friday's being reserved for auctions. I can do two of them, then have a chance to re-orient myself for a draft the next day. Don't think I'd do two auctions and a main event in one day.

If there were auctions on Friday morning and Saturday afternoon you could get two in.

poopy tooth · Post by **poopy tooth** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:43 pm

Greg,

I think some in NY take the train in for the day, so splitting the main events in 2 separate days may make it a little more difficult and you may lose a few more.

I would be happy to draft in two main events on the same day. There will always be a problem with time though, as the three hour difference will cause a problem with doing a 4 1/2 and a 3 1/2 hour draft for some. I think if you start at 12 for the NFFC classic and then at 6 or 6:30 for the NBC main, you would have plenty of time in between to eat and get ready for the next draft. The draft should end about 10, maybe 10:30. I think it would be a great day, with plenty of time to catch the train leaving on a Saturday night.

As far as a price point for the second, I would think a $750 level would have about a $50k grand prize, but that would obviously be your call. You could offer a "two for 2," where owners who join both get in for $2,000 even...

I like the auctions on Friday night. Sundays could be super and ultamites, but you may lose some owners who wanted to do both (not that I could swing all these leagues but there may be some who do)

With that said, I would offer an additional online game for about $250 that offered a grand prize of about $20,000. This would attract more owners. You could use NBC format for new online league. It would have no tie in to the million, but you also wouldn't have to set a limit on owners. You could go over and as the contest grows, you could keep this prize amount relatively flat.

Just my opinions, I'm sure you'll come up with something great!

Joe Sambito · Post by **Joe Sambito** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 1:42 am

"two for 2", I like the ring to that! Maybe you could get Chuck Woolery to do an ad for ya.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 4:06 am

I'd like to thank everyone who e-mailed me yesterday with their thoughts as I received a wide range of opinions in the first few hours. In fact, the first four e-mails were as varied as could be:

1. Don't add a second event as it's too confusing.

2. Do two main events on the same day, Saturday.

3. Do one main on Friday night and one main on Saturday.

4. Do one main on Saturday and one main on Sunday.

I'll admit that I'm still weighing all options and I'm not positive which way this will play out, but I appreciate all of the sentiments.

But here is one e-mail that I had to share as it was funny and still informative: "Anybody who can't handle two drafts in one day should be excommunicated anyway. I say cram it in and bring it on."

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 4:30 am

Here's a few more varied thoughts:

** I would be okay with 2 drafts in one day, i.e., noon and then 7:00. I would also be okay with a draft around 7:00 at night and then the next day at noon or 1:00.

** I think the idea of having the Main event (15 teams) on Saturday, then having the 12 team event on Sunday morning about 9 a.m. would be best. This would allow people to book flights home on Sunday around 3:00 (one less day off work).

** I love the idea of a $1,000,000 prize for a double dip champion. However, I'm concerned about the brand confusion between the 2 different contests. I received my complimentary fantasy football magazine this summer and found it difficult to make the distinction between the 2 events. I spent a lot of time reading, and re-reading the information and was still frustrated.

** Main on Saturday. NBC event on Sunday morning.

2 main events same day would seem too mentally daunting on our weak human minds.

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 4:46 am

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

** I love the idea of a $1,000,000 prize for a double dip champion. However, I'm concerned about the brand confusion between the 2 different contests. I received my complimentary fantasy football magazine this summer and found it difficult to make the distinction between the 2 events. I spent a lot of time reading, and re-reading the information and was still frustrated.

this is a good point, almost like you are competing against yourself in some ways and forcing some owners to choose one or the other.

what's wrong with having the main event live as well as an on-line championship. the wcoff did that for football and it sounds like it was a big success.

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 4:51 am

btw, i'd vote for keeping both at 15 teams per league

Asumijet · Post by **Asumijet** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 8:27 am

If one of the objectives is to bring in new customers with the $750 event, and considering that might be the only event they enter, I think you want to avoid scheduling that event on Sunday. This is a destination event for most; having the event on Sunday AM brings challenges to both travel and may require scheduling an extra vacation day. Sunday AM is makes traveling back to the East Coast from Vegas a challenge. Also, if the new event is on Friday or Saturday, it increases the likelihood the new participants try an auction league or main event.

Two on Saturday is my preference. If necessary, make the 12-team draft 23 rounds and FAAB the seven additional picks before the two weekends before the start of the season.

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

Here's a few more varied thoughts:

** I love the idea of a $1,000,000 prize for a double dip champion. However, I'm concerned about the brand confusion between the 2 different contests. I received my complimentary fantasy football magazine this summer and found it difficult to make the distinction between the 2 events. I spent a lot of time reading, and re-reading the information and was still frustrated. 12-team NFFC-Style/Rule format would make the events very distinct, eliminate confusion and require different strategy considerations. The format is well known by current participants and would attract others who already play the H2H format in both baseball and football.

Nevadaman · Post by **Nevadaman** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 9:50 am

Greg, Keep everything exactly as it is now, and just add the NBC draft after the main event. This is best for the NFBC in terms of risk management. You won't lose any customers you have now, but will pick up many extra entry fees for the new contest. No plane flights or work days have to be altered.

As for scheduling, I think we can all agree that it is much easier to stay up than get up!!! This is a very important principle - especially for people partying in Vegas. No way in hell do any of us want to draft before 10am. No way, no how!! It's so much easier to just stay up and do another draft. It's a no-brainer. Besides, as you pointed out, a 12-teamer takes much less time. In fact, you could shave another 10 minutes off this 12-teamer by just having a break after round 15 instead of breaks after round 10 and round 20.

The $1 Million prize is awesome and I will definitely enter both events to try for it! Having said that, would this be paid immediately or in 20 years like some slot jackpots?

The online championship should probably be around $250 in order to bring in the largest number of people. Many of these will graduate to the NFBC Main in a year or two. The key thing here is to HOLD IT AS CLOSE TO OPENING DAY AS POSSIBLE!!! At least then we could have one team without injuries on opening day!! Here's another radical thought: What if the online championship had no leagues? You could pay just on the overall standings, which would allow you to pay many more places AND the overall prize could be MUCH bigger and get people's attention. Just a thought!

Liquidhippo · Post by **Liquidhippo** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 11:15 am

1. Should we leave Friday as the day for NL, AL and Mixed Auction Leagues? Or would you consider a timeframe that allows auction leagues in the morning on Friday and the 12-team main event on Friday night?

For me, this would be terrible. The auctions, without question, are the highlight of my weekend. As it is, I suffer greatly on Friday because I'm limited to just one AL only and one NL Only Auction. I can't even do the regular Mixed Auction. It's horrible I tell you. Rather than scrunching down/overlapping the schedule even more, we should be spreading out the auctions. I want to go back to back to back.....3 in a row! no, wait, that's not enough. 4 Auctions in one day!

Seriously though, spreading auctions out more would be great. We almost got a keeper auction league off the ground last year, and with a little luck, we can make that a reality in 2009.

2. Is it possible to host two baseball main events on the same day (Saturday) or is that just too much? The idea would be to start the NFBC drafts an hour earlier than past years and do the 12-team main event 2 1/2 hours later. Remember, the 12-teamer drafts 90 less players and thus should be done in 3-3.5 hours. But is that still too much for us humans to tackle in one day?

Two Drafts in one day is easy. The question is whether I'd want to put that much dough on 2 snake events, where one has no control....maybe.

3. Does it make more sense to combine the NFBC main event with an online championship after Draft Day with a bonus prize? But if so, what would be a meaningful price range for an online contest? $350? $500? $750? Remember, if the entry level is too low, the cost of paying for the insurance and overall prizes takes a hit, so this isn't as easy an option as some would think. And do you host these over several days?? We'd obviously have to.

This is the more attractive option in my opinion for the reasons KJ mentioned. I'm more likely to bite if I can buy 4-6 teams, trying different strategies and increase my odds on the million clams.

I also think it would be great if we could offer another NFBC Event on Thursday. Merely 3 days of drafts/auctions? Not enough, not even close. Let's do it right and kick things off Thursday night.

Too much NFBC is never enough!

[ September 12, 2008, 05:19 PM: Message edited by: Liquidhippo ]

bjoak · Post by **bjoak** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 6:20 am

As for scheduling, I think we can all agree that it is much easier to stay up than get up!!! This is a very important principle - especially for people partying in Vegas. No way in hell do any of us want to draft before 10am. No way, no how!! It's so much easier to just stay up and do another draft. It's a no-brainer. Besides, as you pointed out, a 12-teamer takes much less time. In fact, you could shave another 10 minutes off this 12-teamer by just having a break after round 15 instead of breaks after round 10 and round 20.

Yes, I think it is important to remember that the reason the Vegas event is so much more popular than the other cities is because people can have the draft *and* vacation. If it's too early in the morning, you make people feel as though Friday night will be a burden and that it will take away from the fun of the trip and therefore taking the weekend trip is much less attractive overall.

My bladder doesn't like the one break idea at all.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 7:51 am

One thing I can say right now is that I highly doubt that we'll change the Friday or Sunday NFBC events as we have them now. I've pretty much decided that I like the Friday auction formats we have and Sunday seems ideal for the Ultimates and Supers. There is just too much risk to plan a second main event on a second day and ask your customers to come back into those venues a second day.

I would have no problem hosting an additional auction timeframe in Las Vegas on Thursday starting around 4 p.m. if the interest is there. Greg Morgan talked about a Keeper Auction League and with March Madness starting on Thursday I'd have no problem securing a meeting room for this event. Maybe a Mixed Auction League could be scheduled then as well. Again, no problem as I plan on coming into Las Vegas on Wednesday anyway and I'm sure the Flamingo will be able to accommodate us.

So that means I need to consider whether two main events on Saturday is too much and too confusing, which is very possible. I think the NFBC Online Championship could work, but I'm not sure the price point/bonus prize expense will work out. I'll need to think this through more with the calculator and see how it plays out. Thanks for all the feedback thus far and we'll figure this out together.

Steve, the $1 million bonus in football is paid out over 40 years, $25,000 per year. The cost of doing it any quicker is just too high and this was an expense we ate; we didn't make it part of the 75% payout. So if I eat this again, it's a big expense that hopefully can be covered with more participation in all of the other events. Hope that helps.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 7:53 am

Originally posted by bjoak:

quote:As for scheduling, I think we can all agree that it is much easier to stay up than get up!!! This is a very important principle - especially for people partying in Vegas. No way in hell do any of us want to draft before 10am. No way, no how!! It's so much easier to just stay up and do another draft. It's a no-brainer. Besides, as you pointed out, a 12-teamer takes much less time. In fact, you could shave another 10 minutes off this 12-teamer by just having a break after round 15 instead of breaks after round 10 and round 20.

Yes, I think it is important to remember that the reason the Vegas event is so much more popular than the other cities is because people can have the draft *and* vacation. If it's too early in the morning, you make people feel as though Friday night will be a burden and that it will take away from the fun of the trip and therefore taking the weekend trip is much less attractive overall.

My bladder doesn't like the one break idea at all. [/QUOTE]We won't start Saturday's main event before 10 am in any city. And we'll have two breaks for the reason you mentioned above.

DiamondKing · Post by **DiamondKing** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 9:52 am

I love the live in the same room aspect of the big main draft.I would much rather have two drafts on saturday,then have my main mixed with a chatroom draft.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:11 am

After receiving feedback from so many of our NFBC customers, I must admit that for the first time I'm doubting whether we can pull off two main baseball events in the same day in 2009 and still reach our goals. To pull this off, we need to set a respectable grand prize and set guarantees that appeal to our current players and newbies. However, there is risk involved if participation doesn't reach those goals, as we learned in football, and right now I'm not convinced that there is enough interest for two main events on the same day.

The direction of the economy also makes it tougher to expand this much at this time, so I'm scaling back my expectations. I'm still going to think this all through, but again, I'll admit that my thought process is changing a bit with all that is going on with the economy and the simple fact that the baseball drafts are just so taxing in one day.

I do feel like we can create enough interest in an overall online championship, however, and I am exploring those options. Maybe the combination of our NFBC main event and the online championship is the better route for a bonus prize in 2009. We'll see as I'm still running the numbers now. Thanks all and keep the feedback coming.

KJ Duke · Post by **KJ Duke** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 7:55 am

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

After receiving feedback from so many of our NFBC customers, I must admit that for the first time I'm doubting whether we can pull off two main baseball events in the same day in 2009 and still reach our goals. To pull this off, we need to set a respectable grand prize and set guarantees that appeal to our current players and newbies. However, there is risk involved if participation doesn't reach those goals, as we learned in football, and right now I'm not convinced that there is enough interest for two main events on the same day.

The direction of the economy also makes it tougher to expand this much at this time, so I'm scaling back my expectations. I'm still going to think this all through, but again, I'll admit that my thought process is changing a bit with all that is going on with the economy and the simple fact that the baseball drafts are just so taxing in one day.

I do feel like we can create enough interest in an overall online championship, however, and I am exploring those options. Maybe the combination of our NFBC main event and the online championship is the better route for a bonus prize in 2009. We'll see as I'm still running the numbers now. Thanks all and keep the feedback coming. I wouldn't worry about people being able to do 2 drafts in one day, Spring renews the spirit, everyone will be energized for draft day. Asking people in week 24 they won't have the same vigor.

Your concern on the economy is a good argument though. Don't expect things to be better by Spring; expect worse than football season. The effect of events in the past week puts even more pressure on the economy. Expect at least another leg down in consumer spending.

[ September 17, 2008, 02:36 PM: Message edited by: KJ Duke ]

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:35 am

Originally posted by KJ Duke:

quote:Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

[qb] I wouldn't worry about people being able to do 2 drafts in one day, Spring renews the spirit, everyone will be energized for draft day. Asking people in week 24 they won't have the same vigor.

Your concern on the economy is a good argument though. Don't expect things to be better by Spring; expect worse than football season. The effect of events in the past week puts even more pressure on the economy. Expect at least another leg down in consumer spending. [/QUOTE]I think we could do two live events in one day as obviously you crazy auction league owners have shown the stamina to do two in Las Vegas on Friday.

But guaranteeing another grand prize on top of what is already built and doing it in a down economy scares me. The economy is the key in this decision and right now I may just walk before I run on expansion. I think we have a plan in place that could work for a combo prize, an expansion into a 12-team league format, an expansion into an online championship and still reduce our risk. The numbers just don't add up as nicely, but we'll see after tomorrow's meetings. Stay tuned.

KJ Duke · Post by **KJ Duke** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 3:13 pm

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

quote:Originally posted by KJ Duke:

quote:Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

[qb] I wouldn't worry about people being able to do 2 drafts in one day, Spring renews the spirit, everyone will be energized for draft day. Asking people in week 24 they won't have the same vigor.

Your concern on the economy is a good argument though. Don't expect things to be better by Spring; expect worse than football season. The effect of events in the past week puts even more pressure on the economy. Expect at least another leg down in consumer spending. [/QUOTE]I think we could do two live events in one day as obviously you crazy auction league owners have shown the stamina to do two in Las Vegas on Friday.

But guaranteeing another grand prize on top of what is already built and doing it in a down economy scares me. The economy is the key in this decision and right now I may just walk before I run on expansion. I think we have a plan in place that could work for a combo prize, an expansion into a 12-team league format, an expansion into an online championship and still reduce our risk. The numbers just don't add up as nicely, but we'll see after tomorrow's meetings. Stay tuned. [/QUOTE]Sounds good Greg. As much as I'd love to see a 2nd live event like football, I think you're on right path business-wise for '09. Looking forward to the news.

Walla Walla · Post by **Walla Walla** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 1:58 am

Greg, I would do two main drafts on a Saturday.

I will never do anything more than $250 on line.

I've been burned too many times by problems with the internet to trust it. If you can't do it live don't do it at all.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 4:01 am

Originally posted by Walla Walla:

Greg, I would do two main drafts on a Saturday.

I will never do anything more than $250 on line.

I've been burned too many times by problems with the internet to trust it. If you can't do it live don't do it at all. I certainly won't argue with you on this point, especially if you've had technical problems in the past. But I'll say that we ran 40+ NFBC Satellite Leagues last year and we had very few problems. Still, we are concerned about that too and are looking at a $350 price range for the online championship, maybe $400. We will also do these drafts over an 8-day period after the NFBC main event and before Opening Day with drafts every night so that it fits everyone's schedule. Owners could even draft more than one team for the online championship as well.

We are still working out all of the details on the league structure, league prizes and overall prizes, and seeing if we can do the bonus payout like we did for football if anyone wins both events. We should have final details soon and it could be a LOT of fun.

Liquidhippo · Post by **Liquidhippo** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 9:42 am

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

quote:Originally posted by Walla Walla:

Greg, I would do two main drafts on a Saturday.

I will never do anything more than $250 on line.

I've been burned too many times by problems with the internet to trust it. If you can't do it live don't do it at all. I certainly won't argue with you on this point, especially if you've had technical problems in the past. But I'll say that we ran 40+ NFBC Satellite Leagues last year and we had very few problems. Still, we are concerned about that too and are looking at a $350 price range for the online championship, maybe $400. We will also do these drafts over an 8-day period after the NFBC main event and before Opening Day with drafts every night so that it fits everyone's schedule. Owners could even draft more than one team for the online championship as well.

We are still working out all of the details on the league structure, league prizes and overall prizes, and seeing if we can do the bonus payout like we did for football if anyone wins both events. We should have final details soon and it could be a LOT of fun. [/QUOTE]I like the idea of being able to do multiple online satellites with the idea of increasing my odds of winning a $1 million bonus. The lower the entry fee, the more leagues the hardcore player will partake in.