CreativeSports.com 15-Team Mock Draft Tonight

ToddZ · Post by **ToddZ** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 8:16 am

"Can't go" or "Won't go"? Well, because he WON'T GO, that means he CAN'T GO anywhere.

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 8:43 am

Actually, he can go anywhere. The no-trade clause can be waived, say, if he's traded to the Red Sox and they want to give him a new contract.

[ November 13, 2008, 02:51 PM: Message edited by: DOUGHBOYS ]

ToddZ · Post by **ToddZ** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 8:47 am

Picking semantic nits here....

My main point is since Peavy has the right to refuse a deal, those drafting him on November 12 need only concern themselves with his health as opposed to his ending up in Texas or Colorado, as it is highly unlikely he agrees to a deal to an extreme hitter's park.

Whereas those picking Holliday last week were blindsided by the move to Oakland

[ November 13, 2008, 02:48 PM: Message edited by: ToddZ ]

Schwks · Post by **Schwks** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 8:47 am

Who is Lichenwald with 4. Halladay not a top 10 sp 5 C Davis drafting for a best case sceanrio and hope 6. Votto 7 Kendrick one category guy when healthy 8 Greene who I can see not getting drafted in top 20 rds this year

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 8:58 am

I know, I know.

Changing gears I noticed the 'Mastersball.com coming soon' in your signature. Care to give us a preview? My beef with fantasy sites are their similarities. I know we (they) all start with the same numbers and players so that the basics are going to be the same. Is Masterball.com close enough that you can tell us what it will have to set itself apart from other sites?

ToddZ · Post by **ToddZ** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 8:59 am

That's Damon Lichtenwalner from Baseball Info Solutions. Not really hard to copy/paste his name if you don't want to take the time to spell it properly....

Halladay was the #2 overall pitcher in the NFBC last season, assuming he is able to maintain his elevated K-rate, no reason why he should not he at least top-10 this season.

I personally don't like taking on the risk he did with the other picks, to each their own. That said, IF healthy, capital I, capital F, Kendrick has the potential to hit 10-15 HR and steal 20 bags. I wouldn't pay for it, but he is POTENTIALLY, if healthy, more than Placido Polanco, he's more like Dustin Pedroia. But between the ability to stay off the DL and teh fact he has yet to display the latent power, Kendrick will probably go too early for me, though I still love him in keeper/dynasty formats.

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 9:03 am

Originally posted by DOUGHBOYS:

I know, I know.

Changing gears I noticed the 'Mastersball.com coming soon' in your signature. Care to give us a preview? My beef with fantasy sites are their similarities. I know we (they) all start with the same numbers and players so that the basics are going to be the same. Is Masterball.com close enough that you can tell us what it will have to set itself apart from other sites? Besides you, of course.

ToddZ · Post by **ToddZ** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 9:06 am

Changing gears I noticed the 'Mastersball.com coming soon' in your signature. Care to give us a preview? My beef with fantasy sites are their similarities. I know we (they) all start with the same numbers and players so that the basics are going to be the same. Is Masterball.com close enough that you can tell us what it will have to set itself apart from other sites?Me!! That's what will set it apart!!!

I'd prefer to let then dot the i's and cross the t's at the old place before I go to public, I owe them that. If anyone is curious, shoot me an IM.

Long story short is I am going re-launch Mastersball without my old partners, but with their gracious blessing.

Edwards Kings · Post by **Edwards Kings** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 9:13 am

Originally posted by Schwks:

Halladay not a top 10 sp 5. The four mocks posted so far have Halladay a consensus (very early consensus) top 10. If you don't mind sharing, where would you place him?

headhunters · Post by **headhunters** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 9:25 am

schwks- this is looking like a cake walk for you- you should join. btw- has anyone seen crazy like a fox and dub?

Schwks · Post by **Schwks** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 9:37 am

a) The Halladay pick was solid

b) apologies to Damon, his family and ancestors for the misspelling of his name

ToddZ · Post by **ToddZ** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 9:40 am

Schwks, sorry if I came off looking like a d!ck. It's just that there have been some liberties taken with names at the sister football forum and as a writer, I have always made a point of trying to spell a person's name correctly. We don't have a whole lot that we can call our own, our name is one. So again, I apologize if I appeared to be an @ss.

Schwks · Post by **Schwks** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 9:50 am

Z your postings are great and I like getting called out on things so no problem. Here is my issue with Halladay in 4th: He is a guy who has thrown 220 or more innings 5 of last 7 years. Prior to this year, he was getting 130 ish ks per season, which limited his fantasy value and made him a 7-9th round pick; a guy who was a very low #1 sp or more likely solid #2. The last time he had 200 ks in a season was 5-6 years ago in his late 20's.

Drafting him in 4th round you are saying "here is my ace" that I build my staff around. To me the odds of Halladay getting 200 ks again at 33 years old after the workload he has had, when he is not even a strikeout pitcher to begin with, are low.

All of that said, I didnt realize just how many ks he had lsat year, and certainly if Damon projects those numbers, he is wort that slot. Also to answer Headhunter's question, I DID have him in my own top 10 for 09, so I was alowing my angst over Kahalil Green to affect my posting.

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 9:54 am

Thats Khalil to you!

ToddZ · Post by **ToddZ** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:02 am

I actually like Khalil Greene a lot as a MI sleeper assuming he gets dealt out of Petco.

Not enough to make him my 8th round SS, but I do think there is some game left in the Spiccoli-look alike.

Agree on Halladay, thing is pitching seems to be really flying off the board so far in 2009 mocks.

I don't like saying "So-and-So" is a 6th rounder, or I won't take pitching until the 7th round.

It is all dependent upon the ebb and flow of that specific draft.

I prefer to rank the starters and aim for a particular tier, then target taking them when that tier is going, be it 4th round, 8th round, whatever. Maybe I want 2 guys I have ranked 10-18. "By the numbers", let's say they are rated as 8th/9th rounders. If pitching goes fast, and the #12 guy is drafted in the 5th round, I better jump in and not wait until the 8th round. Similarly, if pitching is slow and the #6 guy is drafted in the 7th round, I can wait a bit longer. I am not getting "a bargain" by drafting the #6 guy in the 8th round.

That said, taking Peavy in the 5th in the Mock goes a little against this philosophy. Basically, I wasn't thrilled by the available hitting and felt Peavy has serious upside in the 5th.

[ November 13, 2008, 04:03 PM: Message edited by: ToddZ ]

Edwards Kings · Post by **Edwards Kings** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 12:25 am

Originally posted by Schwks:

Here is my issue with Halladay in 4th: He is a guy who has thrown 220 or more innings 5 of last 7 years. Prior to this year, he was getting 130 ish ks per season, which limited his fantasy value and made him a 7-9th round pick; a guy who was a very low #1 sp or more likely solid #2. The last time he had 200 ks in a season was 5-6 years ago in his late 20's.

Drafting him in 4th round you are saying "here is my ace" that I build my staff around. To me the odds of Halladay getting 200 ks again at 33 years old after the workload he has had, when he is not even a strikeout pitcher to begin with, are low.Actually, I agree with you totally. In 2006 and 2007, Halladay was a top ten pitcher out of the main draft even after the 2005 and 2004 injury problems. In 2008 he slipped I think primarily because of his K rate (in a 4x4 league with no-K's he has much higher value). So those that took him in 2008 as their ace or No. 2 really "lucked" out with his return to form. I say "lucked" in jest because many I am sure just got it right where I obviously got it wrong.

I personally have not had him that high on my list because of his K rate, his home ballpark and the fact that he is in the same division as Boston and NYY (and now TB). But there is no fool like an old. He has been and probably will be an elite producer. And I still do not have him as the guy I want as my ace.

Keep posting. We need the new blood!

Edwards Kings · Post by **Edwards Kings** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 12:35 am

Originally posted by ToddZ:

That said, taking Peavy in the 5th in the Mock goes a little against this philosophy. Basically, I wasn't thrilled by the available hitting and felt Peavy has serious upside in the 5th. Ain't that the truth, about the hitting I mean. When I look at the ADP in these first four posted mocks, and I look at the hitters taken in round 5 and 6, most have some pretty big question marks besides their name (Vmart, Dunn, M. Young, Tulowitzki, Uggla, Jones, Jeter, Damon). To me, it is a real dead zone, hitting-wise. Too early for some, and you cannot plan on a solid round three or four hitter slipping to you. May as well take an anchor arm.

Schwks · Post by **Schwks** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 4:43 am

I dont know if Halladay issue is worth beating to death. I think we all agree that he is a good bet to be a solid, top end part of any fantasy team. What you are really saying when you critique a pick is more "what did you forego by taking player A in that slot".

I think we all agree that pitching in general is more risky then hitting and that pitchers can not cover 5 categories. THerefore, to me, risking a 4th round pick, on a guy who has a high risk of helping in 3 categories is not how I would go, but I realize that reasonable minds and strategies can differ.

I think that starting pitching is much deeper this year then last. So many seeming young aces emerged in 2008, that I would be more comfortable this year building around sp in rds 8-13. So could you win with a rotation of Gallardo, Lilly, Ubaldo, Baker, and one or two long shots...yeah Id be ok with that if I stocked my hitting

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 4:48 am

Kind of an interesting trend this year to note: Top relievers are going in the fifth and sixth rounds this year compared to the fourth and fifth rounds last year. In this draft, the first reliever was Brad Lidge, picked 81st overall. In the ADP that Wayne did for our first three mocks, Jonathan Papelbon was the first reliever picked, going 60th overall. Papelbon went 86th in this draft and Francisco Rodriguez went 96th.

Last year our NFBC Satellite ADP list had Papelbon going 50th overall. Just a trend to note.

Walla Walla · Post by **Walla Walla** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 7:13 am

Todd,

I'll be one of the first to sign up.

Mastersball has a rich history. It's time for it to return. I know you'll do a good job with it.

Sight unseen. I recommend it!

headhunters · Post by **headhunters** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 7:58 am

closers will gradually start moving up the boards until the main. happens every year.

Schwks · Post by **Schwks** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 8:33 am

Ain't that the truth, about the hitting I mean. When I look at the ADP in these first four posted mocks, and I look at the hitters taken in round 5 and 6, most have some pretty big question marks besides their name (Vmart, Dunn, M. Young, Tulowitzki, Uggla, Jones, Jeter, Damon). To me, it is a real dead zone, hitting-wise. Too early for some, and you cannot plan on a solid round three or four hitter slipping to you. May as well take an anchor arm

Good point to go along with new crop of young stud pitchers...have young hitters failed to keep pace with young sp? What happened to supposed breakout guys like Markakis, Pence, C Young, Hart etc

Captain Hook · Post by **Captain Hook** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 11:58 am

Originally posted by Schwks:

Ain't that the truth, about the hitting I mean. When I look at the ADP in these first four posted mocks, and I look at the hitters taken in round 5 and 6, most have some pretty big question marks besides their name (Vmart, Dunn, M. Young, Tulowitzki, Uggla, Jones, Jeter, Damon). To me, it is a real dead zone, hitting-wise. Too early for some, and you cannot plan on a solid round three or four hitter slipping to you. May as well take an anchor arm

Good point to go along with new crop of young stud pitchers...have young hitters failed to keep pace with young sp? What happened to supposed breakout guys like Markakis, Pence, C Young, Hart etc In this draft....

Markakis - round 3

Pence - round 5

C. Young - round 5

Hart - round 4

Where the heck do you think they should have been drafted?

[ November 14, 2008, 05:59 PM: Message edited by: Captain Hook ]

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 1:57 pm

Originally posted by ToddZ:

P - Jake Peavy 5

P - Ricky Nolasco 9

P - Josh Johnson 14

P - Jeremy Guthrie 17

P - David Bush 20

P - Kyle Lohse 22

P - Francisco Cordero 10

P - Brian Fuentes 16

P - Scot Shields 23 todd - i think you are a cool cat, but there is NO WAY this pitching staff gets it done.

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 1:59 pm

of course i could be wrong todd, as i've done zippo baseball work since the season ended