Twice a Week Moves

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Mon May 04, 2009 2:13 pm

Never mind. It doesen't matter.

[ May 04, 2009, 08:17 PM: Message edited by: DOUGHBOYS ]

Walla Walla · Post by **Walla Walla** » Mon May 04, 2009 3:15 pm

Grasshopper, You've seen the path of wisdom.

It doesn't matter.

Jackstraw · Post by **Jackstraw** » Mon May 04, 2009 5:38 pm

Originally posted by DOUGHBOYS:

Pitchers would have no dl rule. The pitchers in the lineup on Monday are your pitchers for the week. No loophole.

It has to be this way to avoid streaming of pitchers, which alot of folks would be against. This was on the verge of being a good alternative until you dismissed the ptiching staffs. I agree with Gekko. There will be a huge firestorm over pitchers if this were to ever be enacted. And then we would be right here again with 390 different threads with 3900 different ideas on how to improve it.

Please do me a favor and explain how pitchers would be streamed. Keep in mind that my reserve roster is limited to seven players where I will be storing all of my crappy backups to the crappy players that I have, sleepers, rookie call-ups, and DL'ed players. Also keep in mind that this is a very deep format where there aren't a lot of quality players to be had on either pitching or hitting FA lists. I just don't see how streaming can be conducted, but maybe you can explain to me.

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Mon May 04, 2009 5:43 pm

And what would you do with the ptiching staffs?

sportsbettingman · Post by **sportsbettingman** » Mon May 04, 2009 5:53 pm

Originally posted by Jackstraw:

Please do me a favor and explain how pitchers would be streamed. Keep in mind that my reserve roster is limited to seven players where I will be storing all of my crappy backups to the crappy players that I have, sleepers, rookie call-ups, and DL'ed players. Therein lies the rub. If you continued this route for your bench...you'd become a dinosaur.

Your bench would no longer be your bench...it would become more optional starters for the weekend, rather than for the next week...changing everything.

sportsbettingman · Post by **sportsbettingman** » Mon May 04, 2009 6:03 pm

I applaud the effort by DOUGHY and KJ...I just get a bad feeling with the motivation...which when stripped to the bone...seems selfish IMO.

You basically want to get credit for having the better bench.

23 starters per week is 23 starters per week. We all deal with all of the injuries, births, DL's, days off, etc.

I just don't see the need to tweak in a "small" tweak...that would end up being a BIG CHANGE.

I know it would...you know it would.

People don't fight tooth and nail for 100 pages over an insignificant change.

The bench would change and the process of evaluating free agents would change dramatically. More under one mans idea than the other.

Factor in the STATS obligations...and all the new moaning...and you have a lose-lose IMO.

Injury is part of fantasy baseball, and gets factored into the players we value most, and draft earliest...and it factors into how we set our lineups each WEEK!

Jackstraw · Post by **Jackstraw** » Mon May 04, 2009 6:37 pm

Originally posted by DOUGHBOYS:

And what would you do with the ptiching staffs? Under your suggestion, remove the restriction on pitchers. I can't do any significant streaming with the size of the reserve roster and still maintain players that I would need to hold onto in case of injury to my hitters. Nor would I be able to keep very good DL'ed players or prospects. If I dropped all of my bench hitters to have pitchers that I could stream on those two days then I would be loaded with a lot of duds. I think that we can agree that selecting pitchers is the single hardest thing to do in fantasy baseball. Attempting to stream under the current 15 team, 30 man roster size is "shooting yourself in the streamin' foot" (thanks KJ). You would kill yourself in ERA and WHIP, and with the lack of great strikeout guys you wouldn't gain any advantage in that category either. Also attempting to stream pitchers would most likely hurt you in saves. The only category that it would help you in is wins. Why would anyone try to boost themselves in one category while running the risk of destroying your stats in two or maybe three others? I've never understood any of the arguments about streaming pitchers in the NFBC format.

JohnZ · Post by **JohnZ** » Mon May 04, 2009 10:07 pm

Wouldn't a SP that's pitching Sat or Sun already be in your lineup as a double starter?

Basically, you'd be removing a SP that pitched Wed or Thur for one that pitches Fri, or the rare time you just have too many double start SP's or the pitcher that gets 5 days rest (off day during week) after starting prior Sunday.

We all have our own opinions, but ideal to me would be replacing any SP that misses his second of a double start for the week. The other ideal for me would be replacing a hitter the next day for going on the DL.

The main point of the DL rule was to replace appearances you expected to have when you set your lineup at the beginning of the week. Anything that creates a loophole shouldn't be considered.

Simply replace the DL appearances we were expecting to get.

[ May 05, 2009, 04:09 AM: Message edited by: JohnZ ]

Gordon Gekko II · Post by **Gordon Gekko II** » Mon May 04, 2009 11:10 pm

Originally posted by JohnZ:

Wouldn't a SP that's pitching Sat or Sun already be in your lineup as a double starter?

Basically, you'd be removing a SP that pitched Wed or Thur for one that pitches Fri, or the rare time you just have too many double start SP's or the pitcher that gets 5 days rest (off day during week) after starting prior Sunday.

this is a good point and perhaps a deathblow to people thinking twice a week moves would cause widespread streaming.

Greg - ready the boat for twice a week moves.

Quahogs · Post by **Quahogs** » Tue May 05, 2009 2:16 am

Originally posted by sportsbettingman:

I applaud the effort by DOUGHY and KJ...I just get a bad feeling with the motivation...which when stripped to the bone...seems selfish IMO.

Hey Lance! Last week of the season. Yankees are battling for playoff spot. You're battling tooth and nail for Wins and K's. AJ Burnett is scheduled to throw friday. Yanks clinch Thursday, Burnett's start is pushed to 1st round of playoffs. You have 2 starters on your reserve also pitching friday. You're standing there holding your HOTDOG and ahh soda. Gee you say wouldn't it be nice to swap out Burnett for a live body the LAST WEEKEND of the season. Damn, sure enough with another 3 K's you would have held onto 1st !! hoo ha. Happy days.

Experience it and you'll march to a different tune I assure you.

751542 · Post by **751542** » Tue May 05, 2009 3:02 am

Originally posted by Quahogs:

quote:Originally posted by sportsbettingman:

I applaud the effort by DOUGHY and KJ...I just get a bad feeling with the motivation...which when stripped to the bone...seems selfish IMO.

Hey Lance! Last week of the season. Yankees are battling for playoff spot. You're battling tooth and nail for Wins and K's. AJ Burnett is scheduled to throw friday. Yanks clinch Thursday, Burnett's start is pushed to 1st round of playoffs. You have 2 starters on your reserve also pitching friday. You're standing there holding your HOTDOG and ahh soda. Gee you say wouldn't it be nice to swap out Burnett for a live body the LAST WEEKEND of the season. Damn, sure enough with another 3 K's you would have held onto 1st !! hoo ha. Happy days.

Experience it and you'll march to a different tune I assure you. [/QUOTE]

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Tue May 05, 2009 3:27 am

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko II:

quote:Originally posted by JohnZ:

Wouldn't a SP that's pitching Sat or Sun already be in your lineup as a double starter?

Basically, you'd be removing a SP that pitched Wed or Thur for one that pitches Fri, or the rare time you just have too many double start SP's or the pitcher that gets 5 days rest (off day during week) after starting prior Sunday.

this is a good point and perhaps a deathblow to people thinking twice a week moves would cause widespread streaming.

Greg - ready the boat for twice a week moves.

[/QUOTE]Nah, not yet. I think the authors of the new proposals are finding out how hard it is to please everyone on this subject. At the end of the day, you have to do what is right for the majority of the players and I'm not so sure that anything right now is better than what we currently have in place. It's not perfect, but as we're seeing from the latest proposals nothing else is perfect for everyone either.

I think we'll try a few mid-season leagues this year with different options and see if there's 1) interest in these new variations; and 2) how these variations play out. That's the best way to test this and stop the clamor one way or another.

sportsbettingman · Post by **sportsbettingman** » Tue May 05, 2009 4:12 am

Originally posted by Quahogs:

quote:Originally posted by sportsbettingman:

I applaud the effort by DOUGHY and KJ...I just get a bad feeling with the motivation...which when stripped to the bone...seems selfish IMO.

Hey Lance! Last week of the season. Yankees are battling for playoff spot. You're battling tooth and nail for Wins and K's. AJ Burnett is scheduled to throw friday. Yanks clinch Thursday, Burnett's start is pushed to 1st round of playoffs. You have 2 starters on your reserve also pitching friday. You're standing there holding your HOTDOG and ahh soda. Gee you say wouldn't it be nice to swap out Burnett for a live body the LAST WEEKEND of the season. Damn, sure enough with another 3 K's you would have held onto 1st !! hoo ha. Happy days.

Experience it and you'll march to a different tune I assure you. [/QUOTE]Just because it hurts more and there is finality attached to it, doesn't mean the last month of the season is any more relevant than the first month when the game is based on season totals.

Wouldn't the possibility of a Yankee clinch have been factored into who you started that final week? If you didn't then...your experience surly will have taught you to factor that scenario in this year.

Doesn't sound much different than having two Tuesday SP going for double starts on Sunday, and being washed out due to rain.

[ May 05, 2009, 10:22 AM: Message edited by: sportsbettingman ]

KJ Duke · Post by **KJ Duke** » Tue May 05, 2009 4:24 am

Originally posted by sportsbettingman:

I applaud the effort by DOUGHY and KJ...I just get a bad feeling with the motivation...which when stripped to the bone...seems selfish IMO.

You basically want to get credit for having the better bench.

Lance, are you suggesting that Dough and I know we'll have a better bench than everyone else in 2010 and beyond? Calling this selfish is just a silly, unjustified statement.

Was it selfish when I started a thread and fought like hell to get 3RR implemented?

Was it selfish when I suggested and pushed for a rule change to make defensive points meaningful in the NFFC?

Was it selfish when I persuaded Greg that the NFBC should have a slow draft format?

All three of the above took off because I fought for them. Other things I've pushed for have failed.

If by selfish you mean that I want these contests to play better because I am in them each season, then yes it is selfish. If you mean that it is because I think I can get a personal edge because a rule change, you are far, far off base.

sportsbettingman · Post by **sportsbettingman** » Tue May 05, 2009 5:04 am

Originally posted by KJ Duke:

quote:Originally posted by sportsbettingman:

I applaud the effort by DOUGHY and KJ...I just get a bad feeling with the motivation...which when stripped to the bone...seems selfish IMO.

You basically want to get credit for having the better bench.

Lance, are you suggesting that Dough and I know we'll have a better bench than everyone else in 2010 and beyond? Calling this selfish is just a silly, unjustified statement.

Was it selfish when I started a thread and fought like hell to get 3RR implemented?

Was it selfish when I suggested and pushed for a rule change to make defensive points meaningful in the NFFC?

Was it selfish when I persuaded Greg that the NFBC should have a slow draft format?

All three of the above took off because I fought for them. Other things I've pushed for have failed.

If by selfish you mean that I want these contests to play better because I am in them each season, then yes it is selfish. If you mean that it is because I think I can get a personal edge because a rule change, you are far, far off base. [/QUOTE]3RR without KDS is still a bad idea IMO...but that's another thread.

I don't like "re-do's"

Set your lineup, and live by it. What the hell is so bad about this? This idea has become somehow ancient and outdated THIS SEASON?

14 starting hitters at a potential 160 games = 2240 GAMES to adjust to injuries. 8960 potential at bats to absorb injuries.

If injuries are fairly disbursed...it should even out over time...with the less injury prone players gaining value.

Say we both have the same starters. Instead of both of us getting dealt a small blow, and adjusting the next week...it now becomes a test of who has the better replacement players to plug in. I'm just saying "great...you have a better guy on your bench...plug him in next Monday, and let the new week begin!"

It just is an unneeded change IMO.

Quahogs · Post by **Quahogs** » Tue May 05, 2009 5:05 am

Originally posted by sportsbettingman:

quote:Originally posted by Quahogs:

quote:Originally posted by sportsbettingman:

I applaud the effort by DOUGHY and KJ...I just get a bad feeling with the motivation...which when stripped to the bone...seems selfish IMO.

Hey Lance! Last week of the season. Yankees are battling for playoff spot. You're battling tooth and nail for Wins and K's. AJ Burnett is scheduled to throw friday. Yanks clinch Thursday, Burnett's start is pushed to 1st round of playoffs. You have 2 starters on your reserve also pitching friday. You're standing there holding your HOTDOG and ahh soda. Gee you say wouldn't it be nice to swap out Burnett for a live body the LAST WEEKEND of the season. Damn, sure enough with another 3 K's you would have held onto 1st !! hoo ha. Happy days.

Experience it and you'll march to a different tune I assure you. [/QUOTE]Just because it hurts more and there is finality attached to it, doesn't mean the last month of the season is any more relevant than the first month when the game is based on season totals.

Wouldn't the possibility of a Yankee clinch have been factored into who you started that final week? If you didn't then...your experience surly will have taught you to factor that scenario in this year.

Doesn't sound much different than having two Tuesday SP going for double starts on Sunday, and being washed out due to rain. [/QUOTE]Let the best fantasy team win it on the field Lance. Let the owner who compiled the best team - active and reserve - win it. Let the owner have SOME control of a situation out of his hands. Let's TRY to wring some luck out of this last week here and exchange it with skill.

sportsbettingman · Post by **sportsbettingman** » Tue May 05, 2009 5:21 am

Originally posted by Quahogs:

quote:Originally posted by sportsbettingman:

quote:Originally posted by Quahogs:

quote:Originally posted by sportsbettingman:

I applaud the effort by DOUGHY and KJ...I just get a bad feeling with the motivation...which when stripped to the bone...seems selfish IMO.

Hey Lance! Last week of the season. Yankees are battling for playoff spot. You're battling tooth and nail for Wins and K's. AJ Burnett is scheduled to throw friday. Yanks clinch Thursday, Burnett's start is pushed to 1st round of playoffs. You have 2 starters on your reserve also pitching friday. You're standing there holding your HOTDOG and ahh soda. Gee you say wouldn't it be nice to swap out Burnett for a live body the LAST WEEKEND of the season. Damn, sure enough with another 3 K's you would have held onto 1st !! hoo ha. Happy days.

Experience it and you'll march to a different tune I assure you. [/QUOTE]Just because it hurts more and there is finality attached to it, doesn't mean the last month of the season is any more relevant than the first month when the game is based on season totals.

Wouldn't the possibility of a Yankee clinch have been factored into who you started that final week? If you didn't then...your experience surly will have taught you to factor that scenario in this year.

Doesn't sound much different than having two Tuesday SP going for double starts on Sunday, and being washed out due to rain. [/QUOTE]Let the best fantasy team win it on the field Lance. Let the owner who compiled the best team - active and reserve - win it. Let the owner have SOME control of a situation out of his hands. Let's TRY to wring some luck out of this last week here and exchange it with skill. [/QUOTE]At least you come right out and basically state you want to start your bench players!

So...the preceding 25 weeks of errors in setting our lineup is somehow less important than the 26th week?

imported_RC Techies · Post by **imported_RC Techies** » Tue May 05, 2009 5:45 am

I would be in favor of twice weekly moves. I would not be in favor of daily moves. I dislike the DL rule as it stands. It favors teams that have a player on DL but not the ones that have a player hurt. I have encountered both in the short season, having Nady and Ramirez. Nady I was able to switch out and Ramirez, who got hurt on his first at bat in the week, I was not. Not sure I understand why I should be able to switch one but not the other. Either eliminate the DL rule completely or go to twice a week changes.

Quahogs · Post by **Quahogs** » Tue May 05, 2009 5:47 am

[QUOTE]Originally posted by sportsbettingman:

At least you come right out and basically state you want to start your bench players!

Where did I say that exactly ? Even so the contest calls for you to draft and own 30 players. To me my bench is simply an extension of my team.

So...the preceding 25 weeks of errors in setting our lineup is somehow less important than the 26th week?

Every week is important. But no where are a manager's decision to sit a healthy player more apparent than it is that last weekend of the season. It's the week 17 of the NFL for baseball. How can you not see that? How can you not want some control over that?

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Tue May 05, 2009 5:53 am

Originally posted by RC Techies:

I would be in favor of twice weekly moves. I would not be in favor of daily moves. I dislike the DL rule as it stands. It favors teams that have a player on DL but not the ones that have a player hurt. I have encountered both in the short season, having Nady and Ramirez. Nady I was able to switch out and Ramirez, who got hurt on his first at bat in the week, I was not. Not sure I understand why I should be able to switch one but not the other. Either eliminate the DL rule completely or go to twice a week changes. Thanks John,

Its great to see someone that doesen't post alot give their opinion. Alot of the silent majority read the Boards, but do not post.

No matter your opinion, could you guys give us your thoughts on this?

Thanks.

sportsbettingman · Post by **sportsbettingman** » Tue May 05, 2009 6:00 am

Originally posted by Quahogs:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by sportsbettingman:

At least you come right out and basically state you want to start your bench players!

Where did I say that exactly ? Even so the contest calls for you to draft and own 30 players. To me my bench is simply an extension of my team.

So...the preceding 25 weeks of errors in setting our lineup is somehow less important than the 26th week?

Every week is important. But no where are a manager's decision to sit a healthy player more apparent than it is that last weekend of the season. It's the week 17 of the NFL for baseball. How can you not see that? How can you not want some control over that?

You DO have control over that. (setting your week 26 lineup to the best of your ability factoring in everything you can)

You NEVER have control over what happens on the field of play.

The teams in 2nd and 3rd are also setting their best lineups based on all the info they can get their hands on.

Someone will win...and that team will be considered the better team that season.

It may be you, it may be that 2nd or 3rd place team.

Having a mid-week "re-do" of setting your lineup doesn't make you the better manager/team if another team was within striking distance and beat you in week 26.

For every sad story...there's a happy story. That team that pulled ahead of you week 26 was the better team that season.

KJ Duke · Post by **KJ Duke** » Tue May 05, 2009 6:14 am

Originally posted by sportsbettingman:

If injuries are fairly disbursed...it should even out over time...with the less injury prone players gaining value.

YOU finally have got to the point, its just that your underlying premise is backwards. Injuries are NOT evenly disbursed over the course of the season.

Some teams have better luck, some have worse luck; accordingly, good teams that are unlukcy will lose to worse teams with better luck.

I have 12 teams this year, some will be lucky, some will be unlucky. I prefer that my best teams win, not the luckiest. This is a test of skill, not a lottery tournament.

Injury-prone teams still will suffer as those teams will lose many quality ABs to lesser alternatives, this isn't about allowing injury-prone teams to rise to the top; they'll be buried anyway.

And as for your "set your lineup and live with it" mantra ... why are weekly moves is a magic number for you and everything else is wrong - why not make it two weeks, or four, or once for the whole season?

You said you don't like re-do's ... how is setting your lineup weekly not a re-do? Once a week, twice a week, daily, monthly, they're all re-dos. If you really don't like re-dos set your lineup on April 5th, start studying for football then come back in October to see if Greg owes you a check.

[ May 05, 2009, 12:20 PM: Message edited by: KJ Duke ]

sportsbettingman · Post by **sportsbettingman** » Tue May 05, 2009 6:20 am

You get one free agency period per week to alter your team. You set your lineup once per week.

Like I mentioned in a PM...we are becoming spoiled.

Where once an injury resulting in a DL trip was considered bad luck...now a player going home for 2 days to be with his wife who gave birth is bad luck.

It is just out of control how a missed game is demonized.

It's a game.

Once per week is perfect for the most people.

Please the most people.

Quahogs · Post by **Quahogs** » Tue May 05, 2009 6:22 am

Lance -

It seems like you're in the "let's hope we get hit with the luck stick camp" Arguing against that camp is fruitless.

"Cool! Burnett's last start is CANCELLED. Look's like my opponent is screwed. He should have sat his ace. He should have known the Yanks would sweep TB to wrap up the wild card ! Sucka ! Now I'll win the league !" :rolleyes:

Thankfully I've never had to live through this specific scenario. But I've had to spend many many hours figuring out a lineup the last Monday to carry me through the next 7 days. It's not easy and frustrating. It's probably what I dislike most about the high stakes leagues I'm in. A little reform here wouldn't hurt.

Carry on Lance, I've said my piece.

Nice start by the way, keep it up !

[ May 05, 2009, 12:23 PM: Message edited by: Quahogs ]

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Tue May 05, 2009 6:49 am

Originally posted by sportsbettingman:

You set your lineup once per week. Lance, in fantasy football, do you think that all lineups should be locked as of 1pm Sunday?