Alex Rios

Edwards Kings · Post by **Edwards Kings** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:32 am

OK. He makes about $10m a year, but can someone explain to me why the Blue Jays let Rios go to the ChiSox via a waiver transaction so they get nothing in return? Do 28 year old 20/20 outfielders grow on trees?

Hi! I am JP Ricciardi. Heard of me?

WOODERSON · Post by **WOODERSON** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:40 am

Toronto thinks they'll be the next Minnesota. They think they can get the same production Rios was providing from Jose Bautista / Travis Snider for a whole lot less money. I know V.Wells has been a model citizen for them, but wouldn't be surprised to see him out also. Toronto now for sure has No Direction!

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 4:29 am

Toronto fans who number in the tens of...hundreds have to be furious.

Dangling Halladay, hoping for the pristine offer while the White Sox give away a lot of talent for an injured Jake Peavy.

Signing Rios to a contract that was too rich even for those times, pay him for lacksadaisical play, and then lose him for nothing.

My favorite Ricciardi move still has to be the radio call-in show. Last year, while being on a Q & A radio show, a listener called and asked if the Blue Jays could be helped by Adam Dunn's on base pctg and power. The listener sounded like a fantasy player who knew his stats. Intimidated or pompous or both, Ricciardi lashed into the listener, spouting how many scouts the Blue Jays had and that they know every number that Dunn has accumulated. Ricciardi also stated that he was privy to information that fans would have no clue about, trying to diminish the caller, but only doing the same to himself.He also stated that Dunn was lazy and didn't really care about baseball. Ricciardi later admitted he had never met Dunn and that all information was second hand.

After Ricciardi's tirade, Dunn was asked about Ricciardi calling him lazy and aloof, Dunn responded that he had never met Ricciardi and that he loved the game. Off camera, he asked, "Who is that pisss -ant?"

The joke was that Ricciardi had already signed the lazy and aloof Rios to a long term contract.

Meanwhile, other GM's call him Jip. He has the reputation of a fantasy player in a trading league that would offer Kotchman and Sandoval for Pujols.

His scouts and information that fans have no clue about must be telling him that Kevin Millar is the real deal. Millar is doing the majority of being the designated hitter while Travis Snider tears up AAA. Snider, will now probably be called up to replace Rios bat and Ricciardi will spin that Snider needed more major league at bats and that Rios was taking those at bats away (not Millar :rolleyes: )

Ricciardi has lied about injuries. He has engineered bad long term contracts. He has lost the respect of fans, players, and colleagues alike.

He has accomplished all he can in baseball and should now be ready to run for political office.

[ August 11, 2009, 10:32 AM: Message edited by: DOUGHBOYS ]

Schwks · Post by **Schwks** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:59 am

I am in disagreement on JP. Outside of fantasy baseball, the 20 sbs from a guy that far down in the order does not have a ton of value. Kind of Cameronesque.

a) JP has built a farm system that produces and produces. Currently helping out are Lind, Hill, Wells. The pitching produces a ton of talent Marcum, McGowan, Purcey, Rsep, Cecil, Richmond, Romero all are guys who could end up being big contributors. There pen is almost all home grown and fairly deep with Frasor, Downs, Accardo. Snyder is on the way and should be very good.

b) REplacement value is what JP was looking at for Rios. Tor is a mid market team. Having a guy who produces at .265 23 80 is death to a mid market franchise, because while he is making $11 million a $400,00 replacement could easily go 260 17 70.

I AM a bit confused as to why he didnt get at least something, but overall, witht the team not going anywhere, I understand the move.

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 11:24 am

Originally posted by Schwks:

I AM a bit confused as to why he didnt get at least something, but overall, witht the team not going anywhere, I understand the move. He signed Rios for way too much money and then lets him go for nothing and you understand the move?

Somewhere along the line, doesen't Ricciardi have to accept responsibility for either a bad contract or a bad decision?

If mediocrity is what the goal is, then sure Ricciardi is your man. Toronto has never gone anywhere with Ricciardi. Not making the playoffs during his tenure, the then lowly, Tampa Rays have passed Toronto in talent and in the standings behind big markets, Boston and New York.

I can name all the negatives, others can list the positives, in the end it doesen't matter, all of the Jays teams have been mediocre at best.

So, if the understanding is that anything is ok because the Jays are going nowhere, then Ricciardi has a life time pass.

[ August 11, 2009, 05:46 PM: Message edited by: DOUGHBOYS ]

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:13 pm

Originally posted by Schwks:

a) JP has built a farm system that produces and produces. Currently helping out are Lind, Hill, Wells. The pitching produces a ton of talent Marcum, McGowan, Purcey, Rsep, Cecil, Richmond, Romero all are guys who could end up being big contributors. There pen is almost all home grown and fairly deep with Frasor, Downs, Accardo. Snyder is on the way and should be very good.Produces and produces?

Wells was already in the system before Ricciardi took over. Between them, Lind and Hill have had three productive years in the Bigs.

Now take ALL of the pitchers mentioned. How much actual production has Toronto gotten from them? Very little.

Snider? JP has Millar, who needs Snider?

Sorry if I seem a bit antagonistic, but GM's in baseball are like CEO's in the business world to me. Some have free reign and can drive a business or team right into the ground while investors or fans can do little but suffer the consequences. Ricciardi isn't running the Jays into the ground....yet, just making critically bad decisions that will make it harder and harder for the next GM to fix.

By the way, Ricciardi's contract is up in 2010.

Chameleon · Post by **Chameleon** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 3:33 pm

Good thread -- Schwks actually raises some good, valid points about the depth and "home grown" of the pitching in Toronto, and some of the position players (e.g., Hill).

But as a Canadian and longtime Jays fan, I have to say I've gone from being a J.P. fan, to so-so, to now thinking -- no, that would be knowing -- I could hands down do a better job running that team than he could (as could many NFBC'ers). He has no clue -- no plan any more.

The thing missing from this thread are all the bad signings. BJ Ryan at what, $50 mil for 1.5 (out of what was supposed to be 4) "elite" seasons. AJ Burnett was a bust (people forget), until he realized he could opt out and take another big contract (cripes I hate him, and hope his arm finally falls off for the Yankees). Then there's the Rios signings, Wells etc.

There HAD TO BE some deal J.P. could have made at the deadline to get SOME talent for Rios. Even if The Jays had to take on some of his stupid contract for 1-2 years.

I fully expect him to be fired in the off-season. He's the most lethal combination of human beings -- ignorant, aloof, AND pompous.

Time to go J.P. You've had your run, and mediocrity is your legacy.

Edwards Kings · Post by **Edwards Kings** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:49 am

Reporter: "Mr. JP, what is the difference between ignorance and apathy?"

Mr. JP: "I don't know and I don't care!"

I agree with Schwks that the farm system has generated some talent, but the "could" is key as, outside of Wells, few have produced multiple years in the bigs, and Wells has been uneven. Hill is having a great year and will be one of my projected "busts" for next year as he will be drafted way high based on 2009. He will produce, but I do not expect him to reach the lofty 2009 production again.

JP may be smart enough to let his farm grow and not trade away the Bluejay junior talent, but as to the overall picture (getting value from key FA signings, designating which home-grown talent to sign long term, valuing that talent, honesty, integrity, fashion sense, etc.) he fails miserably.

headhunters · Post by **headhunters** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 3:40 am

basically, i think toronto went from being the mets and omar minaya to cleveland in a hurry. 4 years ago- they thought if they overpaid in a good economy the team would get better and they could compete with the yanks and boston. then came the depression, the rays, the injuries and all of a sudden they have to sell! sell! sell! lots of cases being made that even as is rios is a decent player who is still " worth" roughly what the sox will have to pay. if he keeps regressing they will be wrong. if he stabilizes and plays center field the way the sox think he can- it is a smart move by sox. the sox search to replace rowland is over- i hope. but when it comes to intensity- they are on oposite ends of spectrum. dye buerle konerko thome and aj run the clubhouse. if 3 leace- it will be a challenge. time will tell.

bjoak · Post by **bjoak** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:35 am

While I agree that it was a horrible trade, er, uh, that is to say, move, I can see the Jays' reasons. They currently don't have a center fielder. Wells can stand out there and there is no question that he was once very good, but those days are passed and he may struggle with a corner at this point.

No one is going to take Wells' contract, not even in a pass-it-along like the Rios deal. The Jays outfield of the future had Snider, Rios, Wells, and Lind; except that with four guys to cover three spots and DH, not one of them can play center. They are stuck with Wells so they felt they had to move Rios. The correct move here was to trade Lind or Snider for a somewhat less potent bat with a lot better defense. But, yes, they definitely had to do something to have an outfield that can carry it's weight defensively in 2010.

[ August 12, 2009, 02:36 PM: Message edited by: bjoak ]

bjoak · Post by **bjoak** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:40 am

By the way, Ricciardi's contract is up in 2010.Doughy, is that before or after?

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 2:07 am

Originally posted by bjoak:

quote:By the way, Ricciardi's contract is up in 2010.Doughy, is that before or after? [/QUOTE]It is through 2010, Brian.

A Red Sox fan will correct me if I am wrong, but I believe Theo Epstein has the official title of GM and makes, or is the loudest voice, in making personnel decisions, while the President and another member of the Red Sox staff negotiates the contracts. At least that is the way that I interpretted a story read awhile ago. If correct, other clubs should follow suit. It just doesen't seem right that the same guy that drafts or trades for a player should be the one that is trying to limit a salary too.

Going back and looking at this thread, Ricciardi was given credit for his minor league system. He has been there since 2001 and has produced Hill and Lind, while the other starters have all been traded for or were in the system before he arrived. To me, that is poor, and more worthy of a demerit instead of credit. Even the Yankees and their free spending ways have more "home-grown" talent and starters than the Jays.