Kevin Towers

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 2:58 am

Maybe it's just me, I believe that the firing of managers usually comes a year too late, while the firing of GM's comes three years too late.

It is true in Towers case.

GM's in Kansas City, Cleveland, Toronto, Houston, and Cincinnati have are in the same boat. These franchises all have little hope of competing next year or for the foreseeable future.

When I saw the Towers headline I had to laugh. Maybe the news last week that Towers wouldn't mind seeing Milton Bradley again in a Padres uniform was the last straw.

Directly, or indirectly, Milton Bradley spreads his love all over the baseball world.

LONG GONE · Post by **LONG GONE** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 7:23 am

Kevin Towers of San Diego and JP of Toronto should be fired. They have had plenty of time in there current roles with mediocre to bad results.

Dayton Moore of Kansas City and Walt Jocktty of Cincinnati are fairly new to there current team. They deserve more time. Most GM's I think deserve a 5 to 6 year window, before making big judgments about them.

Ed Wade of Houston needs some direction to rebuild. What we don't now is if the owner is making some,all, or none of GM's decisions. I assume Ed Wade works for a crazy owner and has a harder time putting his blueprint together.

Mark Shapiro of Clevland isn't going anywhere. He is a well respected and good GM. When the owner or organization tells you to dump salary because we are going to lose 40 to 50 million,you do it.

We need to guess at what goes on behind the scenes that has nothing to do with baseball, but the business of baseball.

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 7:46 am

Originally posted by LONG GONE:

Mark Shapiro of Clevland isn't going anywhere. He is a well respected and good GM. Shapiro is well respected,but I don't agree that he has done a good job the last couple of years. His rotation, even with Lee was laughable going into the year. Next year, it looks to be even worse.

Shapiro will get a pass for awhile as all "well respected" GM's do. He has built a great system with young players, his forte, but as far as putting that young product on the field at the major league level and getting anything close to a contending pitching staff, he has failed miserably.

[ October 03, 2009, 01:47 PM: Message edited by: DOUGHBOYS ]

LONG GONE · Post by **LONG GONE** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 7:57 am

Shapiro knew his staffed sucked coming into the season and knows it sucks next year. Big Deal, Why does that make him a bad GM? He just was forced to trade CC and Lee. He has to have a few years for the next cycle. Thats what small markets do!!!!!

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 8:22 am

We'll have to agree to disagree. It IS a big deal when you give your team no chance to win. With no viable starters that can win a lot of games, Cleveland falls to KC status rather than rising to Twins status.

The attitude that it is ok to be without a staff because of the smaller market is crazy. Other small market teams have staffs and have lost aces along the way.

Kevin Towers was once well respected as well, that wears thin when you give your team no chance to win.

Vander · Post by **Vander** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 8:44 am

I used to think Towers was ok, but he's been in that ball park for several years now and seems to refuse to build his team around what he has. Why not speedy outfielders and solid starting pitching? A STL of the 70's and 80's type of team. He hasn't even tried to put this type of team together and it seems a no brainer to me. Fired he deserves and as for JP should've been fired a long time ago. Lots of poor gm's. How do these guys get their jobs anyway? Much less how do they keep them.

KJ Duke · Post by **KJ Duke** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 9:05 am

Originally posted by Vander:

I used to think Towers was ok, but he's been in that ball park for several years now and seems to refuse to build his team around what he has. Why not speedy outfielders and solid starting pitching? A STL of the 70's and 80's type of team. He hasn't even tried to put this type of team together and it seems a no brainer to me. Fired he deserves and as for JP should've been fired a long time ago. Lots of poor gm's. How do these guys get their jobs anyway? Much less how do they keep them. I would've fired him the moment he decided to re-sign Brian Giles.

LONG GONE · Post by **LONG GONE** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 9:40 am

Take any of the clubs from above. Some are easier then others. You are the new GM. Tell me how and when you will make me a .500 ball club, division tittle winner and world championship caliber. All 3 are major difference's in qulity. Oh stay within budget.

Good Luck 007

LONG GONE · Post by **LONG GONE** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 9:42 am

I have great ideas for KC. Will post next week.

Vander · Post by **Vander** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 10:06 am

Any time you take over a mess it will take time to fix. Without the Yankees budget, you will need to build from within and if your minors are barren it will take longer. It can be done, even with a low budget. The harder thing to do is keep it going and be competitive year after year. In some cases, I believe Pittsburgh is one, I've heard gm's not using their high draft picks to pick the guys they should, but taking low first round guys with the first or second overall pick cause they are easier and cheaper to sign. Hence the perpetual crap they put on the field. I think Moore deserves more time in KC. He inherited a mess and nobody could have fixed that in a hurry. All of his moves haven't worked, but I believe he's on the right track. Not a whole lot to work with.

LONG GONE · Post by **LONG GONE** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 10:56 am

1. Most clubs need to reduce payroll down to the lowest level possible.

2. Free agents should only be purchesed for 2 reasons.

A. Because they are under valued.

B. Because you have a window to win the division or have a chance at championship caliber.(not because you have a budget with excess)its like the Gov.

1.To get to .500 can be done hitting or piching combinations.

2. Winning a division will require some top of the rotation talent.

3.Championship caliber will require for me 2 of the top 10 pitchers and a 3rd pitcher that will come from the next group of 15 to 20 pitchers. Your 4 should be like small markets open day starter. Spent so much on pitching your 5th guy should always be a player from within that you are paying nothing for and are trying to groom.

This would be my outline or motivation for doing something.

LONG GONE · Post by **LONG GONE** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 11:19 am

KC

1. Based upon the outline from above I would reduce payroll buy tradding for the highest quality talent avalable.

2. Zack does meet my standards as a championship calibor pitcher. Unfortunitly we can't even compete for the division with him. He is the one chip worth the mother load and should be tradded to a championship ball club for only future championship players. If Red Sox would consider:

1.Clay Bucholtz

2.Daniel Bard

3.Casey Kelly

4. player that has a chance as a starting outfielder or 4th or 5th outfielder that you pay only the minnium for.

A.This reduce payroll and allows me to build around Clay Bucholtz posibly a championship starting pitcher down the road.

B.It gives me a championship closer In Daniel Bard that I pay little money to.

C.Casey Kelly former 1st round pick that is one of the top pitching prospects in the low minors.

D. Trying to save money with adding to my outfield depth.

No Bucholtz and Bard no deal.

LONG GONE · Post by **LONG GONE** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 11:31 am

2nd Step:

With Bard closing Soria would be tradded.Soria is a championship type player that would be given a good return. Maybe to the Phillies for

A. Outfielder Taylor or Kyle Drabek only will have a chance for 1.

Maybe Tampa for:

D. Jennings outfielder

Davis and Hellickson starting pitching Mid tear pitching. I could go for any of these players.ALL CHEAP

LONG GONE · Post by **LONG GONE** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 11:36 am

I would consider moving Gil Meche to the Brewers for JJ Hardy and Cory Hart if they would consider.

Meche must be moved for something not nothing.

That would be my start. .500 or better in 2 to 3 years.

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 1:24 pm

Originally posted by LONG GONE:

2. Winning a division will require some top of the rotation talent.

Wrong.

Colorado has achieved either a wild card or division winner with really no top shelf pitchers. Marquis and Hammell overachieved, Jimenez and DeLaRosa may go on to star or fizzle next year, while Cook was Cook.

But they all gave their team, a good defensive team, which was not mentioned, a chance to win everyday. And THAT is what you want out of a lower budget team.

LONG GONE · Post by **LONG GONE** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 4:43 pm

Jimenez is a top talent pitcher. Will be a top 30 starting pitcher taken in the NFBC next season.

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 6:32 pm

Originally posted by LONG GONE:

Jimenez is a top talent pitcher. Will be a top 30 starting pitcher taken in the NFBC next season. We disagree on this as well.

Cowboy Joe · Post by **Cowboy Joe** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 3:21 am

After the 2001 fiasco, I was never a Dan O'Dowd fan. I thought Rockies management gave him every chance in the world (too many chances in my opinion) to succeed.

I was wrong. To his credit, O'Dowd's done a great job of learning and improving. His performance this season was masterful getting Street and CarGo for Holliday & trading little away to get Marquis and Hamels. Heck even Contreras has helped.

The Rox are now almost entirely home grown in the position player category and they've succeeded with smart, relatively small dollar investments in pitching.

Given their defense and Bob Apodaca's magic touch, will FA pitchers change their view on coming to Colorado?

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 3:36 am

I agree. I haven't been a fan of O'Dowd's either.

Although it wasn't a perfect season for O'Dowd, he should have traded Atkins during the last off season, but held out for too much.

The moves he did make have been gold this year and now they have enough outfield depth for him to trade Hawpe over the off season.

Marquis was a key acquisition, while the youngsters have flourished. Defensively, they have probably been the best team in baseball over the last four months.

I know he has no chance of winning with King Albert's year, but Tulowitzki really should get a lot of recognition for MVP.