Main event - 2 weekends- fair or unfair

gigglin marlin · Post by **gigglin marlin** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 3:09 am

Originally posted by Glenneration X:

Greg, Tom, Ryan, keep up the good work. I'm hoping you extend to a month of live contests.

Glenn A month of live drafts. Now that is an idea!!

Captain Crunch · Post by **Captain Crunch** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 3:31 am

I don't care about fair or unfair, or about when you draft, or whether you have more than one team, or whether you blow off a category or two. Big deal.

However, the attraction of the main event was that the pool of teams was created at the same time. That attraction is gone, and the main event is no longer unique. It's just another high stakes game.

For all that the event has increased in numbers, it has one less participant than it would have had.

CC's Desperados · Post by **CC's Desperados** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 3:45 am

Originally posted by Captain Crunch:

I don't care about fair or unfair, or about when you draft, or whether you have more than one team, or whether you blow off a category or two. Big deal.

However, the attraction of the main event was that the pool of teams was created at the same time. That attraction is gone, and the main event is no longer unique. It's just another high stakes game.

For all that the event has increased in numbers, it has one less participant than it would have had. So your saying you aren't playing?

[ March 13, 2010, 10:10 AM: Message edited by: CC's Desperados ]

Jim Christie · Post by **Jim Christie** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 3:50 am

I think it is time to erase this thread...

Thunder · Post by **Thunder** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 3:51 am

i can see both sides of this argument, but one thing for sure, it allows more participation (which i believe was the purpose). personally, i would not have been able to do the live events if not for the additional weekend. for personal reasons, i had to drop out of the Chicago event, but i'm able to draft in St. Louis. unfortunately, the StL auction didn't fill.

Hells Satans · Post by **Hells Satans** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 4:09 am

honestly, who cares

Frozen Tundra · Post by **Frozen Tundra** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 4:58 am

To me fairness comes down to this simple question:

Are my chances of winning equal to the other 434 entries? I would say YES.

-Nobody is stopping us from drafting any player when we're up, provided they're available

-Nobody is stopping us from picking up any free agent, provided we bid the highest

-Nobody is stopping us from setting our lineup whichever way we wish, provided they're regular lineups.

If an owner wants to increase his chances of winning by buying another team (btw his chance of winning the grand prize would increase by the scary probability of 0.2%), then so be it. It's risk return, like everywhere in life. You want more return, pony up more cash. Has nothing to do with fair or unfair.

Schwks · Post by **Schwks** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 5:24 am

I do not think fairness is the issue. Clearly buying more teams increases your chances. But this does not change the fairness of the contest.

I think that what the London, Ontario gent is saying is that if you are trying to create a contest that equates to the World Championship of Poker, or a sporting event, then allowing more then one entry per contestent seems to make it more equivalent to fantasy sports. Nothing wrong with that...just moves it away from being the end all-be all event.

I am not saying this is good or bad...just is. Certainly as Bill pointed out, more convenience for the potential entrants.

Purple Helmets · Post by **Purple Helmets** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 5:29 am

Originally posted by Hells Satans:

honestly, who cares Not me...and if I somehow manage to have a very lucky season and finish on top of the pile, I'll feel the same amount of prestige (probably even a little more) than I would've had I pulled it off last year.

Sorry Lance...

sportsbettingman · Post by **sportsbettingman** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 6:04 am

Geez...nice post Greg! Touched a nerve I guess.

One season, one team = prestige. You are forced to put all your apples into one basket and do your best with your draw.

Two, three, four teams = you get different league draws, different draft slots, and the ability to hedge the crap out of your risk that others simply do not get.

If you see that as the same, so be it.

billywaz · Post by **billywaz** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 6:19 am

Originally posted by sportsbettingman:

Geez...nice post Greg! Touched a nerve I guess.

One season, one team = prestige. You are forced to put all your apples into one basket and do your best with your draw.

Two, three, four teams = you get different league draws, different draft slots, and the ability to hedge the crap out of your risk that others simply do not get.

If you see that as the same, so be it. Hedging usually means ONE decent play, and ONE lousy one.

If someone wants to pony up $2,800 (roughly 2 main entries depending where you draft) to win $5,000 (top league prize)....WHO CARES???

They are risking twice as much, spending EASILY twice as much time in the regular season with managing their teams. WHY SHOULDN'T THEY HAVE BETTER ODDS????

If someone plays two hands of blackjack at the casino, they can win a lot more $$$, but they are risking a lot more too!

If someone is talented enough to win TWO leagues, why wouldn't they take advantage of that???

I like you Lance, but Greg's post was spot on. You can't rip this contest, when a contest you publicly support does the exact same thing.

For the record, I obviously have no problem with either!

[ March 13, 2010, 12:22 PM: Message edited by: billywaz ]

Walla Walla · Post by **Walla Walla** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 6:24 am

Lance, Just shut up and signup for the main event. Your such a baby!

sportsbettingman · Post by **sportsbettingman** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 6:27 am

Originally posted by billywaz:

quote:Originally posted by sportsbettingman:

Geez...nice post Greg! Touched a nerve I guess.

One season, one team = prestige. You are forced to put all your apples into one basket and do your best with your draw.

Two, three, four teams = you get different league draws, different draft slots, and the ability to hedge the crap out of your risk that others simply do not get.

If you see that as the same, so be it. Hedging usually means ONE decent play, and ONE lousy one.

If someone wants to pony up $2,800 (roughly 2 main entries depending where you draft) to win $5,000 (top league prize)....WHO CARES???

They are risking twice as much, spending EASILY twice as much time in the regular season with managing their teams. WHY SHOULDN'T THEY HAVE BETTER ODDS????

If someone plays two hands of blackjack at the casino, they can win a lot more $$$, but they are risking a lot more too!

If someone is talented enough to win TWO leagues, why wouldn't they take advantage of that???

I like you Lance, but Greg's post was spot on. You can't rip this contest, when a contest you publicly support does the exact same thing. [/QUOTE]My comment was also spot on. It apparently ruffled some feathers, but that's life.

The FFPC, WCOFF, FFOC, NFFC are all doing the same thing. In my opinion, they have all sold out for more money in a down economy. I'm not trying to bash one over the other...it's a trend that has happened, like Chest said, and it's not going back to year one of WCOFF, or year one of the NFBC where it was run like the WSOP. I understand that. But with the rule change brings less prestige IMO.

Just one opinion.

Scott Boras · Post by **Scott Boras** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 6:27 am

Anyone who manages to beat Childs and all of the other greats not once, but TWICE in the same contest deserves a little prestige in my opinion.

Agree with whoever said the greater odds come at a greater price. Requires not only greater financial resources but also more time invested.

sportsbettingman · Post by **sportsbettingman** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 6:35 am

Originally posted by Walla Walla:

Lance, Just shut up and signup for the main event. Your such a baby!

I've already stated a few times I don't like how ALL main events are top heavy and league light, and that my new strategy is to play in higher payout single leagues, and try to win my way into the main events (all main events) via satellites, so winning my league = a nice ROI. I'm in a $325 saellite that top three get main event entries. I'm in a few more leagues as well with the same goal. If I can't win my way in, it sure doesn't make much sense to play, as I must not be that good.

Don't be surprised (if the economy shows a pulse) to see me in the higher stakes leagues next year, (Super/Ultimate/Diamond type leagues) as those leagues make more sense to me than a main event.

Thunder · Post by **Thunder** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 6:36 am

next thing you know somebody's going to be pi$$ed because their chances of winning the overall have been deminished because this year there's 435 owners instead of 390. :rolleyes:

Glenneration X · Post by **Glenneration X** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 6:36 am

Originally posted by sportsbettingman:

But with the rule change brings less prestige IMO.

Just one opinion. Exactly..."one opinion".

Give me the $100K grand prize and I'll live with YOUR opinion that my win was less prestigious.

I on the other hand still feel prestige when I win my local league.

My "one opinion" is that anyone who can beat a field this large, this deep, and this full of absolute sharks has earned a hell of a lot of prestige.

So when I win....

Gekko · Post by **Gekko** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 6:37 am

me thinks lance is acting like the kid who didn't get a Christmas present (draft pick). misery loves compant, right?

sportsbettingman · Post by **sportsbettingman** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 6:45 am

Originally posted by Gekko:

me thinks lance is acting like the kid who didn't get a Christmas present (draft pick). misery loves compant, right? Naaa...just when Childs wins the main this year (or you, or Glenn, or Steve, etc...the guys with more than one entry)...I'm gonna practise this face to give them the next time I see them...

That should make all the $$$$ not worth it! HA!!!

Glenneration X · Post by **Glenneration X** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 6:49 am

Originally posted by sportsbettingman:

quote:Originally posted by Gekko:

me thinks lance is acting like the kid who didn't get a Christmas present (draft pick). misery loves compant, right? Naaa...just when Childs wins the main this year (or you, or Glenn, or Steve, etc...the guys with more than one entry)...I'm gonna practise this face to give them the next time I see them...

That should make all the $$$$ not worth it! HA!!! [/QUOTE]What if someone with multiple entries take 1st and 2nd overall? Hmmmmm.....what kind of face do they get?

Glenn

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 7:01 am

Originally posted by sportsbettingman:

Geez...nice post Greg! Touched a nerve I guess.

One season, one team = prestige. You are forced to put all your apples into one basket and do your best with your draw.

Two, three, four teams = you get different league draws, different draft slots, and the ability to hedge the crap out of your risk that others simply do not get.

If you see that as the same, so be it. Lance, you said it's no longer prestigious to win the NFBC main event when you're not even in the main event. I think you struck my nerve and others' and so I called you out first. It makes no sense to disparage the 435 owners who are competing for this prestigious title when you yourself admit it's the toughest competition in the fantasy baseball industry.

I also think it's hypocritical to call us out for a contest that has a main event on two different weekends when a contest you support in football has live drafts on two different DAYS and has an overall contest that has more online participants than live participants. I like you Lance and I know you love to stir the pot late at night, but why take a shot at our 435 participants? Take shots at me all day, but saying the event no longer has prestige is asinine. That part struck a nerve.

[ March 13, 2010, 01:02 PM: Message edited by: Greg Ambrosius ]

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 7:10 am

Originally posted by sportsbettingman:

quote:Originally posted by billywaz:

quote:Originally posted by sportsbettingman:

Geez...nice post Greg! Touched a nerve I guess.

One season, one team = prestige. You are forced to put all your apples into one basket and do your best with your draw.

Two, three, four teams = you get different league draws, different draft slots, and the ability to hedge the crap out of your risk that others simply do not get.

If you see that as the same, so be it. Hedging usually means ONE decent play, and ONE lousy one.

If someone wants to pony up $2,800 (roughly 2 main entries depending where you draft) to win $5,000 (top league prize)....WHO CARES???

They are risking twice as much, spending EASILY twice as much time in the regular season with managing their teams. WHY SHOULDN'T THEY HAVE BETTER ODDS????

If someone plays two hands of blackjack at the casino, they can win a lot more $$$, but they are risking a lot more too!

If someone is talented enough to win TWO leagues, why wouldn't they take advantage of that???

I like you Lance, but Greg's post was spot on. You can't rip this contest, when a contest you publicly support does the exact same thing. [/QUOTE]My comment was also spot on. It apparently ruffled some feathers, but that's life.

The FFPC, WCOFF, FFOC, NFFC are all doing the same thing. In my opinion, they have all sold out for more money in a down economy. I'm not trying to bash one over the other...it's a trend that has happened, like Chest said, and it's not going back to year one of WCOFF, or year one of the NFBC where it was run like the WSOP. I understand that. But with the rule change brings less prestige IMO.

Just one opinion. [/QUOTE]Lance, see here's the problem. From the players' standpoint, you want us all to go back to Year One when we paid 100% in prizes and lost our asses. How much money do you think Krause Publications lost in 2004 in the NFBC? Take a guess. I know the number. And how much do you think we lost in 2004 in the NFFC? Take a guess. I know the number.

To build good organizations and contests, you have to take chances and risk. We've done that for seven straight years. I think some people like you want contests to stay small and "like it was at the beginning." I understand that and two-person owners of events is a cool, cool thing. I just think that as this consolidating industry consolidates even more, it's going to be tougher to do the same things we did in 2002 and 2004.

Change not only is inevitable, it's necessary. Personally, I was unsure of the two-weekend concept at first. Now, having talked to most of my customers, I like it. I know some couldn't make it one weekend or the other for Draft Day. And there are going to be different strategies to be used on separate weekends and at different draft spots in a 15-team format. I think Shawn will even tell you that it's easy to ace one exam (main event) and screw up on the next one (Ultimate League). Sh*t happens.

I think you are smart to play in the free entry leagues for a chance to get back in the big dance, or even move up to the Super and other events. You'll love our bigger private league payouts in football and hopefully you'll consider us when you see that. I know you love ROI, a good party and a good contest. We'll have all of that and more in football.

Stay well. You're much bigger than me, so I don't want a fight with you!! You're in construction, I'm a damn writer!! It's a mismatch. But we can agree to disagree on the fact that you said this is no longer prestigious and I believe it's more prestigious than ever before. And even profitable, when at one time WE LOST OUR ASSES!!

Gekko · Post by **Gekko** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 7:15 am

lance is only seeing one side of this.

Too win the 100K, I now have to beat TWO childs, TWO Jupinkas, etc...

if anything the "prestige" factor has gone UP.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 7:17 am

Originally posted by Gekko:

lance is only seeing one side of this.

Too win the 100K, I now have to beat TWO childs, TWO Jupinkas, etc...

if anything the "prestige" factor has gone UP. Exactly. And remember, you have to win your league title first. Lance and everyone else knows how tough that is, so focus on that goal first.

sportsbettingman · Post by **sportsbettingman** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 7:18 am

Originally posted by Glenneration X:

quote:Originally posted by sportsbettingman:

quote:Originally posted by Gekko:

me thinks lance is acting like the kid who didn't get a Christmas present (draft pick). misery loves compant, right? Naaa...just when Childs wins the main this year (or you, or Glenn, or Steve, etc...the guys with more than one entry)...I'm gonna practise this face to give them the next time I see them...

That should make all the $$$$ not worth it! HA!!! [/QUOTE]What if someone with multiple entries take 1st and 2nd overall? Hmmmmm.....what kind of face do they get?

Glenn [/QUOTE]Sorry...I googled Brad Pitt and had to search through 22 pages till I found the face I wanted for that scenario...here it is...

Sorry for causing a ruckus, Greg! I'll be going to my brother's 50th birthday party tonight, so I won't be near a computer, and won't have to defend my buzzed posts the next morning.

Ain't life grand!