Grady Sizemore Being Removed As Free Agent In 2 League

Sack · Post by **Sack** » Wed May 26, 2010 7:58 am

Grady Sizemore was my drop in Atlantic City League #2 this past week. In addition, I also dropped the same player in an NFBC Satellite League called the Rookie Invitational.

I drafted Sizemore in both leagues with the obvious potential for upside this season to possibly produce first round stats. After one month, my eyes, and his stats tell me I made an error with this selection.

I leaned on the published injury report provided on BaseballHQ from a well respected source. DoctorHQ stated that Grady at minimum was looking at missing at best one month. ( Article published on May 22nd ) Worse case scenario, a lot longer and maybe season ending.

The Atlantic City team I have is mid pack, at best. The Rookie Invitational team is in first. I'm convinced Sizemore will not help me, in Atlantic City #2 I needed the roster spot. Dropping Sizemore was a strategic move to help my flexibility. If it backfires, well it was my $1300+ entry fee.

I NEVER drop a player with hopes of having others spend FAAB money. I strictly concentrate on my team. If Greg/Tom believe that Grady Sizemore needs to be pulled for the Overall Contest, I support that 100%. It is written in the rules and they have my full support.

What I will ask in regard to this decision is simple - don't waffle on this. If you deem Grady Sizemore unavailable for the upcoming FAAB period in my Atlantic City League, it SHOULD be a universal decision going forward in ANY league for the remainder of the 2010 season.

Why should other leagues be allowed to have MORE TIME to evaluate a FAAB decision? Why should those WILLING to spend in Atlantic City League # 2 be penalized if the money they have to bid this period is different in four weeks and you reinstate this player to the pool?

Picking and choosing when a certain player is allowed into a specific FAAB pool, specific to leagues is dangerous territory.

Personally, I'd like Grady to remain because I have come to the conclusion he is damaged goods. However, I respect the ruling. But stand by this

decision for the full season. Do this "consistently" for any league that has an Overall Prize for the remainder of the 2010 season. This appears to be your basis on May 26th for a player with an ADP of #24 - stand by it.

Ken Magner

[ May 26, 2010, 01:59 PM: Message edited by: Sack ]

Money · Post by **Money** » Wed May 26, 2010 9:33 am

Expect Jenks to be added to the list of questionable drops this Sunday.

Bo's Bombers · Post by **Bo's Bombers** » Wed May 26, 2010 10:03 am

I a newbie to this, but Javier Vasquez was a drop in my league a couple weeks ago. To me he is way better than sizemore as he was a top ten pitcher last year. He has struggled this year and i understand why he was dropped, but if sizemore is being pulled, I don't understand why Vasquez wouldn't be. Also Chipper was dropped, and I believe he is better than sizemore too.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Wed May 26, 2010 12:36 pm

Originally posted by Sack:

Grady Sizemore was my drop in Atlantic City League #2 this past week. In addition, I also dropped the same player in an NFBC Satellite League called the Rookie Invitational.

I drafted Sizemore in both leagues with the obvious potential for upside this season to possibly produce first round stats. After one month, my eyes, and his stats tell me I made an error with this selection.

I leaned on the published injury report provided on BaseballHQ from a well respected source. DoctorHQ stated that Grady at minimum was looking at missing at best one month. ( Article published on May 22nd ) Worse case scenario, a lot longer and maybe season ending.

The Atlantic City team I have is mid pack, at best. The Rookie Invitational team is in first. I'm convinced Sizemore will not help me, in Atlantic City #2 I needed the roster spot. Dropping Sizemore was a strategic move to help my flexibility. If it backfires, well it was my $1300+ entry fee.

I NEVER drop a player with hopes of having others spend FAAB money. I strictly concentrate on my team. If Greg/Tom believe that Grady Sizemore needs to be pulled for the Overall Contest, I support that 100%. It is written in the rules and they have my full support.

What I will ask in regard to this decision is simple - don't waffle on this. If you deem Grady Sizemore unavailable for the upcoming FAAB period in my Atlantic City League, it SHOULD be a universal decision going forward in ANY league for the remainder of the 2010 season.

Why should other leagues be allowed to have MORE TIME to evaluate a FAAB decision? Why should those WILLING to spend in Atlantic City League # 2 be penalized if the money they have to bid this period is different in four weeks and you reinstate this player to the pool?

Picking and choosing when a certain player is allowed into a specific FAAB pool, specific to leagues is dangerous territory.

Personally, I'd like Grady to remain because I have come to the conclusion he is damaged goods. However, I respect the ruling. But stand by this

decision for the full season. Do this "consistently" for any league that has an Overall Prize for the remainder of the 2010 season. This appears to be your basis on May 26th for a player with an ADP of #24 - stand by it.

Ken Magner Thanks Ken. I didn't even know it was you who dropped Sizemore. Thanks for the honest feedback.

I understand how you don't want me to reconsider my position on Sizemore once I've pulled him and to pull him in every league thereafter, but that's not my goal. My goal with his injury being so unknown on Monday was to make sure a Top 25 player (at least as of Draft Day) isn't available in just one league because of misinformation on an injury. You certainly concluded that he's damaged goods and he very well could be, but I wanted more time to make sure of that.

Already the news on his injury seems worse than it did on Monday. If he does have surgery and misses a month or two, he will be dropped in many leagues and thus it would be stupid not to allow him in every league's free agent pool. In fact, then it would be smart to add him back into the two leagues I pulled him out of and to let all owners know of that decision.

I didn't want either of the contests to be won by my stupidity and chose to analyze his injury status this week when hopefully more information would be present. But if you are correct and he is damaged goods then I will rule accordingly if he's dropped by many others. Will it have given your league mates a week to reconsider his true value? Possibly, but in my mind that is better than me looking like a fool if the overall champion was the only one who had a chance to pick up a Top 25 pick via free agency in Week 8.

Hope that helps, whether folks agree with it or not. And as Tom has stated, it is not our goal to take players out of the free agent pools, but I've erred on the side of caution before and certainly did in this situation.

Scott Boras · Post by **Scott Boras** » Wed May 26, 2010 3:01 pm

Originally posted by waiverwire:

Given all the disagreement on this, for future NFBC season, wouldn't it make sense to change the rule to something that eliminates the need for Greg to make a subjective call on these situations? For example, change it to "Any dropped player who is owned in greater than 99% of all leagues will be removed from the free agent pool. If ownership of the player drops to below 99% in a future week, the player will be added back into the free agent pool the following week." I think I like this suggestion. It would take the guessing and decision making out of future drops, would be clear and universal for all leagues. It appears it would work for Greg as well- Sizemore would be pulled based on these guidelines but could be reinstated if more teams drop him in future weeks.

KJ Duke · Post by **KJ Duke** » Wed May 26, 2010 4:21 pm

Originally posted by Scott Boras:

quote:Originally posted by waiverwire:

Given all the disagreement on this, for future NFBC season, wouldn't it make sense to change the rule to something that eliminates the need for Greg to make a subjective call on these situations? For example, change it to "Any dropped player who is owned in greater than 99% of all leagues will be removed from the free agent pool. If ownership of the player drops to below 99% in a future week, the player will be added back into the free agent pool the following week." I think I like this suggestion. It would take the guessing and decision making out of future drops, would be clear and universal for all leagues. It appears it would work for Greg as well- Sizemore would be pulled based on these guidelines but could be reinstated if more teams drop him in future weeks. [/QUOTE]There are 29 main event leagues, so if dropped in 1 league a player's owned ratio would be 96.6% ... thus no player would ever be pulled.

We've had this debate every season and I'll always come down on the side of Greg making the call. However, I would like to see his primary criteria be player performance and estimated current draft value rather than ADP.

[ May 26, 2010, 10:24 PM: Message edited by: KJ Duke ]

ESPN8 THE OCHO · Post by **ESPN8 THE OCHO** » Wed May 26, 2010 8:01 pm

Poor explanation Greg. If he is injured he will be put back in. That is not good enough. Also to hear Vazquez was dropped and not pulled is totally inconsistent.

Save yourself some trouble and make a no drop list where certain players will not be available if dropped BEFORE the season starts. This is extremely poor. The only way a player should be pulled is if you think their is collusion. Personally I think you should have a no drop list.

Tell you what though I am struggling a bit in pitching and would love Vazquez. Please explain to me why a top 10 pitcher from last year was left in the pool. If that post was true it is a terrible terrible job.

Sorry I love the nationals here but your taking away a legit chance for someone to pick up a player. If that pick up helps that person win the league or overall so be it. Words can't explain how terrible this decision is and how terribly inconsistent it is when compared to minor leaguers and guys like Vazquez and Dotel. It is sad really.

TOXIC ASSETS · Post by **TOXIC ASSETS** » Wed May 26, 2010 10:52 pm

Greg ---

You can't please all the people all of the time.

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Thu May 27, 2010 1:06 am

To be fair, the guy that posted about Vazquez never specified what league he was in.

If it was a satelite, which it very well could have been, the Vazquez argument is moot.

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Thu May 27, 2010 1:38 am

Pre-season lists do not work.

Too many things happen after the season begins.

An updated list each week would be a better idea.

For me, I'm comfortable, as is, leaving it in Greg's hands.

Bo's Bombers · Post by **Bo's Bombers** » Thu May 27, 2010 2:17 am

Vasquez was droppeed in the March 14 league one in the online double play so it wasn't a satellite league. Being a new guy, I didn't know he could be pulled otherwise I would have said something.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Thu May 27, 2010 2:46 am

Originally posted by TOXIC ASSETS:

Greg ---

You can't please all the people all of the time. When I die, someone please put on my tombstone:

Greg Ambrosius

1960-2060

"He tried, but he couldn't please all of the people all of the time."

And if I do live until 2060, the Packers better have won at least one more Super Bowl by then.

BigHurt · Post by **BigHurt** » Thu May 27, 2010 6:24 am

Maybe you can sign Favre for the 2011 season

Bama · Post by **Bama** » Thu May 27, 2010 8:16 am

Now we have went and opened a can of worms as everyone is looking for every dropped player to be removed from the faab pool. Thats why a player with ?'s with his performance and injury history should never be pulled no matter what their ADP was. Dropping players of this sort is part of the strategy in alot of instances that it is better left alone. Now everybody that dont have enough money or a spot on the roster trying to find lightning in a bottle on some of these players just will lobby for their removal, where will it stop.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Thu May 27, 2010 8:31 am

Originally posted by BigHurt:

Maybe you can sign Favre for the 2011 season We've got Rodgers. Who needs the Drama Queen?

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Thu May 27, 2010 8:35 am

Originally posted by Bama:

Now we have went and opened a can of worms as everyone is looking for every dropped player to be removed from the faab pool. Thats why a player with ?'s with his performance and injury history should never be pulled no matter what their ADP was. Dropping players of this sort is part of the strategy in alot of instances that it is better left alone. Now everybody that dont have enough money or a spot on the roster trying to find lightning in a bottle on some of these players just will lobby for their removal, where will it stop. Every year we get folks asking for players to be removed and for the most part we resist. It started this week with Octavio Dotel. We let him and others in the player pool, but I chose to look at Sizemore's situation because of his ADP and injury status. We're not expanding this process, but anyone who was drafted in the first two rounds will always be looked at by me and Tom, especially this early in the year.

ToddZ · Post by **ToddZ** » Thu May 27, 2010 9:05 am

If there is ever serious consideration to removing the subjectivity from the decision, using the % owned is actually a really good idea as there is nobody better than the NFBC players with respect to setting the market value of the MLB population.

A threshold can easily be set up based on the % owned in each league that has an overall competition. That is, because the dynamics of a 12 team league and 15 team league are different, a player may meet the threshold and be pulled in one but not the other, etc.

ToddZ · Post by **ToddZ** » Thu May 27, 2010 9:08 am

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

quote:Originally posted by TOXIC ASSETS:

Greg ---

You can't please all the people all of the time. When I die, someone please put on my tombstone:

Greg Ambrosius

1960-2060

"He tried, but he couldn't please all of the people all of the time."

And if I do live until 2060, the Packers better have won at least one more Super Bowl by then.

[/QUOTE]Greg -- unfortunately, your obit will be overshadowed by stories of whether Brett Favre III will be returning to the Packers.

Where does winning LABR fit in on the bucket list?

Fourslot40 · Post by **Fourslot40** » Thu May 27, 2010 11:28 am

Honestly, you really can't make everyone happy. A decision is made and everyone plays by the same rules.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Thu May 27, 2010 1:05 pm

Originally posted by ToddZ:

quote:Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

quote:Originally posted by TOXIC ASSETS:

Greg ---

You can't please all the people all of the time. When I die, someone please put on my tombstone:

Greg Ambrosius

1960-2060

"He tried, but he couldn't please all of the people all of the time."

And if I do live until 2060, the Packers better have won at least one more Super Bowl by then.

[/QUOTE]Greg -- unfortunately, your obit will be overshadowed by stories of whether Brett Favre III will be returning to the Packers.

Where does winning LABR fit in on the bucket list? [/QUOTE]If I can't win with Childs this year, I have no chance of ever filling that bucket!!

But Shawn still insists we can win the AL this year. So if he thinks so, I think so.

KJ Duke · Post by **KJ Duke** » Thu May 27, 2010 1:12 pm

Originally posted by ToddZ:

If there is ever serious consideration to removing the subjectivity from the decision, using the % owned is actually a really good idea as there is nobody better than the NFBC players with respect to setting the market value of the MLB population.

Yet there is danger in such a policy. Suppose the threshold is 3 main event lges and the player in question has been dropped in 2 lges. That potentially creates incentive/pressure for someone who is out of it in another league to drop a player to help someone in another league.

ESPN8 THE OCHO · Post by **ESPN8 THE OCHO** » Thu May 27, 2010 3:42 pm

"Honestly, you really can't make everyone happy. A decision is made and everyone plays by the same rules."

GARBAGE! We are not playing by the same rules because other leagues get the luxury of bidding on a guy like Dotel. If we don't want a problem and don't want this debate parameters need to be set BEFORE the season. The fact that Greg says he is unavailable unless deemed useless is rediculous. Drops happen in every league and other owners wish they were in the leagues with certain players available. That is the game. Some of it has to do with luck. Greg butting in and making someone unavailable is UNACCEPTABLE unless there is a basis for COLLUSION!

Honestly I am in the league where Sizemore was dropped. My team is not performing well and I spent a good amount of free agent dollars trying to right the ship. I saw the Sizemore drop and looked at it as an opportunity to roll the dice with a decent bid since I can't overwhelm to get him... and worst case scenario someone breaks the bank and I have a better chance at landing some targets at a later date.

The game was seriously altered for me and puts me at a disadvantage to all the other owners not in league 2 NY. It is a travesty. I am always honest and believe Greg and Tom work hard to put out a great product and will defend them when they are right. However in this situation I think the ruling is very wrong. In this situation you have owners that will always complain and then those who think NFBC can do no wrong. However when you look at the objective owners the overwhelming majority agree that this is a terrible decision.

If it stands I must insist Dotel be removed. I don't want some schmoe making up saves on me because someone dropped a starting closer.

Stop the madness and rule appropriately!

ESPN8 THE OCHO · Post by **ESPN8 THE OCHO** » Thu May 27, 2010 3:52 pm

"Yet there is danger in such a policy. Suppose the threshold is 3 main event lges and the player in question has been dropped in 2 lges. That potentially creates incentive/pressure for someone who is out of it in another league to drop a player to help someone in another league."

That is called collusion, an obvious reason to delete a player. This is probably very hard to prove so I really think a no drop list before the season works best. Obviously owners may drop one of these players if need be but then they would be no longer available in that league.

The ruling is so easy it is comical.

On minor leaguers they should be 1-all available in every league or 2-every player drafted at least once should be available in every league. Again a ruling so simple it is sickening.

I ask you take these suggestions into consideration because it makes things more fair amongst the many leagues and will eliminate debates like these.

Also there really is no good arguement as to why the way things are run now.

*1 person with the power to determine who is too good to be dropped.

*Minor leaguer player A was drafted in the 30th round in league A, not drafted in League B. Said player is dropped in League A. 1 owner picks up minor league player for 6 bucks and stashes. League B has to wait for call up and needs to spend for a shot at the player he may have wanted to stash. Where is the fairness in that?

I'll tell you like the rule above there is none. There is no logical explanation that explains either of these scenarios as is.

Gladiators · Post by **Gladiators** » Fri May 28, 2010 1:41 am

I would like to add that Curtis Granderson was dumped in one of my DP leagues two weeks ago and picked up last Sunday. He went to a different team for huge FA dollars. Some might argue that Granderson is near the value of Sizemore. He was going 4th-5th rounds in most of my drafts. Now, the team that picked him up has him coming back this week and essentially gets an OF #1 for the rest of the season perhaps.

Just sayin...

KJ Duke · Post by **KJ Duke** » Fri May 28, 2010 3:29 am

Originally posted by Gladiators:

I would like to add that Curtis Granderson was dumped in one of my DP leagues two weeks ago and picked up last Sunday. He went to a different team for huge FA dollars. Some might argue that Granderson is near the value of Sizemore. He was going 4th-5th rounds in most of my drafts. Now, the team that picked him up has him coming back this week and essentially gets an OF #1 for the rest of the season perhaps.

Just sayin... Worth a lot more than Sizemore, but 12-team lges are a lot different than the main event.