What are the pros and cons of allowing pitcher moves on Friday?

TRAIN · Post by **TRAIN** » Fri Aug 13, 2010 4:36 am

We already allow batter moves and that was a nice rule change this year allowing for more flexibility and strategy with the batters / batting categories. Why not allow this for pitchers as well?

Money · Post by **Money** » Fri Aug 13, 2010 4:55 am

Originally posted by luck and skill:

We already allow batter moves and that was a nice rule change this year allowing for more flexibility and strategy with the batters / batting categories. Why not allow this for pitchers as well? The rule of lineup changes should be consistent next year. Not necessarily pitchers (I'm on the fence there) but the timing for Monday and Friday changes should be the same. Either it's up until the players team has played or it's until the first game starts. Makes no sense to have it different.

TRAIN · Post by **TRAIN** » Fri Aug 13, 2010 5:09 am

Some of the pros for wanting this rule change:

1. If a pitcher was scheduled to start this weekend but that start has now been moved to next week (Brandon Morrow's scheduled start being changed this week is a good example).

2. If a pitcher has a non DL injury or requires a bereavment / personal leave of absence that forces them to miss their scheduled start.

3. If the pitching matchup changes to a more favorable one for one of your benched pitchers, or less favorable one for your starting pitcher.

4. Wanting to adjust your strategy because of how your pitchers performed already Monday thru Thursday in certain categories.

eddiejag · Post by **eddiejag** » Fri Aug 13, 2010 5:10 am

I play in a couple other leagues that allow changing pitchers for the weekend and i love it.Just much more fun getting more pitchers in your lineup.This week in the nfbc if you own Brandon Morrow or the kid Woods of Cincy you take a zero for the week.They send Woods down on monday so your just fu#ked for the week and same with Morrow on monday they tell you we are going to skip him.Its not your fault hes in your lineup coming off a one hitter with 17 k's,yeah im really going to sit him and last week same thing with Hughes as they skiped him.Just my opinion but would love that change.

Sack · Post by **Sack** » Fri Aug 13, 2010 5:43 am

The best rule change implented this season was allowing us to move hitters in/out of our lineup. It allows you to manage your team to avoid injuries and missed AB's. By allowing this, we moved from the random

nature of the D/L rule. This change has made for alot more enjoyment in this years version of the NFBC.

When you start to talk about the same window for pitchers, I'd be AGAINST this. The entire approach to the game would be changed. You wouldn't be constructing the best pitching staff in certain instances, but compiling numbers to compete in 40% of the Cats. Subsequently, less pitching would be available as people load up on the arms.

Interesting discussion and a good topic, but I'd vote against messing with the current pitching setup. Just my two cents.

[ August 13, 2010, 11:43 AM: Message edited by: Sack ]

Quahogs · Post by **Quahogs** » Fri Aug 13, 2010 5:48 am

Like Eddie I too play in a couple of pitching swap on friday leagues. It's unique to that contest and I'm fine with that. However it's like fantasy baseball on steroids. The strategy is very time consuming and I couldnt imagine playing in the same amount of leagues here if that was implemented. Pitchers are also hoarded throwing the offense/pitching quotient out of whack.

bjoak · Post by **bjoak** » Fri Aug 13, 2010 7:10 am

Completely against two pitcher moves. It just plays too much like a daily league where everyone streams pitchers. It becomes a lot more about luck because let's face it: nobody is good enough to pick pitchers that they can draft 15 good ones. And then you are handcuffed as to how you build your bench, which is also going to leave it up to fate to decide whether you have adequate replacements for injuries. I just really don't like it.

I will only play in NFBC leagues next year because there is no streaming of pitchers.

Oaktown · Post by **Oaktown** » Fri Aug 13, 2010 7:14 am

Agree with Sack completely. Love it for hitters and would be against it completely for pitchers. Pitcher streaming would become very prevalent and change the game, not something I am a fan of.

Cocktails and Dreams · Post by **Cocktails and Dreams** » Fri Aug 13, 2010 7:16 am

Have only played two pitching period style but I cannot imagine a scenario which would make me not prefer it.

Sebadiah23 · Post by **Sebadiah23** » Fri Aug 13, 2010 7:25 am

The hitting change has been cool but also has added tons of analysis time and will force me to peel back on teams next year.

I am completely against the pitching changes because not the increased time but more important, it takes away from the weekly pitching decision strategy that is fundamentally fascinating compared to daily change leagues.

-Craig K

TRAIN · Post by **TRAIN** » Fri Aug 13, 2010 7:30 am

I am not sure how having pitcher moves on Friday would drastically change the game as some of you are saying. It seems to me as though it would allow for more flexibility on Friday to adjust to circumstances that occurred Monday thru Thursday. Can you explain why it would be such a bad thing?

Return of the Aces · Post by **Return of the Aces** » Fri Aug 13, 2010 7:33 am

There is already a problem with the current system. It was raised in earlier threads. At present, the system can be manipulated. If you have a starter with two starts for the week and you are worried about the first start, you can put any DL pitcher into the starting spot and then on Friday transfer the DL pitcher out and put your "2 start, now 1 start" pitcher back in. My vote is either you eliminate this loophole or you allow pitcher moves on the weekend.

ToddZ · Post by **ToddZ** » Fri Aug 13, 2010 7:39 am

While in-season roster management is obviously a major part of the arsenal of fantasy owners, my personal feeling is allowing the free replacement of pitchers minimizes the spring preparation with respect to pitcher evaluation and then the associated game theory during the draft. There is too much risk mitigation by allowing Friday moves.

You should do your pitcher evaluations and have to start someone like Jair Jurrjens or Gavin Floyd the whole week as opposed to starting Kevin Correia for a Tuesday home start against Pittsburgh then benching him when he travels to Coors over the weekend and then instead start Jonathan Sanchez for a Sunday home start against the Astros, missing his Monday start in Philly while he was on your bench.

CC's Desperados · Post by **CC's Desperados** » Fri Aug 13, 2010 7:43 am

Originally posted by Fast Money:

quote:Originally posted by luck and skill:

We already allow batter moves and that was a nice rule change this year allowing for more flexibility and strategy with the batters / batting categories. Why not allow this for pitchers as well? The rule of lineup changes should be consistent next year. Not necessarily pitchers (I'm on the fence there) but the timing for Monday and Friday changes should be the same. Either it's up until the players team has played or it's until the first game starts. Makes no sense to have it different. [/QUOTE]I agree the Friday moves need to happen the same as Monday. There have been too many weeks when there is only one game in the afternoon om Friday.

[ August 13, 2010, 01:49 PM: Message edited by: CC's Desperados ]

Cocktails and Dreams · Post by **Cocktails and Dreams** » Fri Aug 13, 2010 7:45 am

Originally posted by ToddZ:

While in-season roster management is obviously a major part of the arsenal of fantasy owners, my personal feeling is allowing the free replacement of pitchers minimizes the spring preparation with respect to pitcher evaluation and then the associated game theory during the draft. There is too much risk mitigation by allowing Friday moves.

You should do your pitcher evaluations and have to start someone like Jair Jurrjens or Gavin Floyd the whole week as opposed to starting Kevin Correia for a Tuesday home start against Pittsburgh then benching him when he travels to Coors over the weekend and then instead start Jonathan Sanchez for a Sunday home start against the Astros, missing his Monday start in Philly while he was on your bench. I disagree with this, but it is an interesting subject with vastly varying opinions obviously. I like the decision of taking a zero in k's and no chance at a win over risking getting perihperal numbers taken for a ride in a bad direction. Also how many pitchers do you carry versus have more offensive flexibility? I think I would prefer to either have your same offense the whole week and also your staff or be able to change them both on Friday.

Glenneration X · Post by **Glenneration X** » Fri Aug 13, 2010 7:48 am

I'm with Steve. I also play in that other contest that allows two pitcher changes and I enjoy it for that contest.

Still, I prefer the rule in this contest remain how it is so that there is a unique quality to both.

Also in agreement that it is much more time consuming with two pitcher changes per week. I definately would be limited in how many teams I could manage efficiently with that rule for all my teams.

Slightly off topic, I also agree with Joe that the Monday & Thursday set lineup deadlines should be consistent. Either set it for for 6:55pm or 5 minutes prior to the first game, not one for Monday and another for Thursday.

Thanks,

Glenn

Sebadiah23 · Post by **Sebadiah23** » Fri Aug 13, 2010 8:06 am

The fun of picking between a good pitcher for one start versus a so-so pitcher for two starts would go away, because you could throw two different starters that pitch on let's say a Wednesday and a Friday, and ignore two start week guys completely. That incredibly boring to me from a strategical point of view, like yahoo leagues.

JohnZ · Post by **JohnZ** » Fri Aug 13, 2010 8:09 am

Originally posted by eddiejag:

I play in a couple other leagues that allow changing pitchers for the weekend and i love it.Just much more fun getting more pitchers in your lineup.This week in the nfbc if you own Brandon Morrow or the kid Woods of Cincy you take a zero for the week.They send Woods down on monday so your just fu#ked for the week and same with Morrow on monday they tell you we are going to skip him.Its not your fault hes in your lineup coming off a one hitter with 17 k's,yeah im really going to sit him and last week same thing with Hughes as they skiped him.Just my opinion but would love that change. I like it a lot also, but I can see not liking it in NFBC because of 15 teams as opposed to 14. The FA lists here could not absorb the 12-14 pitcher loss.

It doesn't take any extra time as the SP's are all color coded. It does change the dynamics of hitting and pitching as compared to here, but it's just different and you have to adapt, just like any set of rules.

Money · Post by **Money** » Fri Aug 13, 2010 8:18 am

Originally posted by Glenneration X:

I'm with Steve. I also play in that other contest that allows two pitcher changes and I enjoy it for that contest.

Still, I prefer the rule in this contest remain how it is so that there is a unique quality to both.

Also in agreement that it is much more time consuming with two pitcher changes per week. I definately would be limited in how many teams I could manage efficiently with that rule for all my teams.

Slightly off topic, I also agree with Joe that the Monday & Thursday set lineup deadlines should be consistent. Either set it for for 6:55pm or 5 minutes prior to the first game, not one for Monday and another for Thursday.

Thanks,

Glenn Hey Glen,

That toggle in the Live scoring you pushed for is great. Now we need to push to have that same toggle for the Set Lineup page. It would be great to toggle from team to team in the same manner when setting lineups.

Just a thought.

bjoak · Post by **bjoak** » Fri Aug 13, 2010 8:21 am

Originally posted by luck and skill:

I am not sure how having pitcher moves on Friday would drastically change the game as some of you are saying. It seems to me as though it would allow for more flexibility on Friday to adjust to circumstances that occurred Monday thru Thursday. Can you explain why it would be such a bad thing? It has to do with categories. If you were in the two change league and had no pitchers on your bench you would get buried in wins and Ks, almost regardless of how good your pitchers were. You need to have your bench loaded with starting pitchers and then you sit whoever is not playing over the weekend and "stream" in the guys who were on your bench for the first half of the week (because they had no starts).

You could just go with ERA and WHIP and minimize starts, but then you are handicapping yourself if you are in an overall competition and your offense needs to be perfect to make up for getting slaughtered in wins and Ks.

Like I said earlier, then you can't store many hitters on your bench. I saw that Shawn estimated somewhere that you need 15 pitchers on your team in the WCOFB to be competitive in wins and Ks. That depresses the Hell out of me if you want to know the truth. I want to field a staff--not be in a situation where I have to fill my team with waiver trash because there is no other way to be competitive.

bjoak · Post by **bjoak** » Fri Aug 13, 2010 8:25 am

Agree about Mon./Fri. start times and closing the DL loophole (though I think people who use it end up beating themselves at least half the time).

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Fri Aug 13, 2010 8:47 am

I beat the drum for twice a week hitting moves for three and a half years before it was adopted.

It is just a good rule and adds to the enjoyment of our game.

I don't know that streaming pitchers would be good for the overall game. Some teams would stream, while others, seeing that, could go the other way, and get some Bard, Thornton types. Still, others would go balance.

A scenario with a lucky stream of pitchers cheapens the event a little for me. We all take our lumps with what we have right now, and I am ok with that.

In the end, I don't think pitching changes for weekends would be more beneficial than what we have now. Just more stats.

If I had to vote now, I would vote against twice a week pitchers.

I am with others in cleaning up the timing for Monday and Friday deadlines.

Afternoon Friday games have become a pain in the ass.

Make Friday like Monday.

Gekko · Post by **Gekko** » Fri Aug 13, 2010 9:16 am

Originally posted by DOUGHBOYS:

In the end, I don't think pitching changes for weekends would be more beneficial than what we have now. Just more stats.

If I had to vote now, I would vote against twice a week pitchers.

I am with others in cleaning up the timing for Monday and Friday deadlines.

agreed.

however, i would be in favor of allowing owners to switch out any pitchers (on friday) who hadn't pitched Mon-Thu.

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Fri Aug 13, 2010 9:26 am

Originally posted by Gekko:

quote:Originally posted by DOUGHBOYS:

In the end, I don't think pitching changes for weekends would be more beneficial than what we have now. Just more stats.

If I had to vote now, I would vote against twice a week pitchers.

I am with others in cleaning up the timing for Monday and Friday deadlines.

agreed.

however, i would be in favor of allowing owners to switch out any pitchers (on friday) who hadn't pitched Mon-Thu. [/QUOTE]I would agree with that.

But, I see pitfalls with Fanball programming.

Gekko · Post by **Gekko** » Fri Aug 13, 2010 9:50 am

Originally posted by DOUGHBOYS:

But, I see pitfalls with Fanball programming. and the sun rises in the East!