Unbreakable Records

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 6:43 am

As a kid, I thought that Lou Gehrig's record was untouchable. At 162 games a year, someone would have to play 13 full seasons plus part of the 14th.

Of course, Cal Ripken shattered the record and now, kids in this era can think of nobody breaking Rikpen's streak.

What are the most unbreakable records today?

Cy Young winning 511 games will never be eclipsed. Heck, it hasn't been approached with three and four man pitching rotations. With a five man rotation, even 20 game winners are becoming rare. A pitcher would have to win 20 games a year for 25 years just to approach Young's record.

Yeah, unbreakable.

But, let's take longevity out of the picture.

What record is unbreakable without longevity?

Joe DiMaggio's 56 game hitting streak comes to mind. 2011 will mark 70 years that the record has stood. Like Cy Young, nobody has really come close at the Major League level. DiMaggio's record looks safe for this era.

Four homers in one game? Surprising that during the steroid era, this record was not broken. Willie Mays had four homers and a double off the wall to come the closest to breaking the record. Specialized pitching makes this record a tough one to break. But, it wouldn't take the skill set of a guy hitting in 57 straight games. Hitting four homers in a game has been done 12 times. Only three of those players are in the Hall of Fame.

During the dead ball era, Ed Delahanty became the only player to hit four inside the park home runs in a game. An era record, but of course, one that'll never be touched. Delahanty notably, would have a shortened career, dying at Niagara Falls. Falling in after a drunken binge.

Johnny Vander Meer threw consecutive no-hitters in 1938.

THIS is an unbreakable record. Tying it would be extraordinary. The pressure involved in throwing that third no-hitter would be mind bending, especially in our media scrutinied times. Let alone, the achievment on the field and Management's counting of pitches.

Vander Meer was a wild, hard thrower. The kind of pitcher that hitters felt uncomfortable facing. During the winter, he would 'work out' by throwing snowballs throgh tires hung with rope from a tree.

1938 was his first full season in the big leagues.

After throwing his first no-hitter, there was not much attention paid to Vander Meer going into his next start. That start was on the road and the Brooklyn Dodgers were creating a buzz. They had installed lights and Vandermeer's turn coincided with the night lighting premiere.

The Dodgers oversold the stadium. The fire department was called. They deemed the occupancy too high of a safety risk. Fans were moved around the park. Fans were removed from the park. Some fans sat on the field close to the foul line fences.

Through all the hubbub, pregame activity would start and stop. Vander Meer warmed up on three different occasions. If the pitch count were in vogue, he would have never gotten the chance to set the record.

The aisles finally cleared, the game began. Vander Meer would end up walking eight hitters, including walking the bases loaded in the ninth inning, but prevailed.

Press credentials for his next start tripled. Vander Meer was being interviewed by every publication. Even magazines without a sports theme. He didn't feel any pressure going into his two no-hitters, that wasn't the case before his third game.

He still did well. Vander Meer didn't allow a hit until the fourth inning of that game. The game ended with him throwing a shutout and allowing only four hits.

The closest a pitcher has come to tieing Vander Meer's record was Ewell Blackwell. Blackwell threw a no-hitter and carried a no-hitter into the ninth inning of his next game, only to give up two hits after getting an out.

Vandermeer had a great seat for Blackwell's performances. He was a teammate and in the dugout.

27 pitchers in baseball history have thrown two no-hitters. Of those 27 pitchers, only eight were elected to the Hall of Fame. Only five pitchers have thrown three or more no-hitters.

Those numbers alone, is a testament to how hard it would be to tie this record, let alone break it.

Truly, a record that will never be broken.

Fourslot40 · Post by **Fourslot40** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:17 am

Most innings pitched in one season. Will White of the 1879 Cincinnati Reds. He pitched 680 innings.

The game has changed. You will find most pitching categories to be untouchable simply due to the money involved in the sport.

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:23 am

Yep. A product of the era. He started 75 games that year, and threw, you guessed it, 75 complete games. Another unbreakable record

Fourslot40 · Post by **Fourslot40** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:50 am

Rube Marquard won 19 consecutive games in 1912 with the New York Giants. He won his first 19 to start the season and finished 26-12 on the year.

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 12:51 pm

Getting back to White. He pitched for the Reds that year and lost 31 games, but he won 43.

White pitched 75 of the Reds 80 games.

His brother caught.

The running joke amongst opposition was that they were going to play the Whites, not Reds.

TOXIC ASSETS · Post by **TOXIC ASSETS** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 10:35 pm

Cy Young's 511 wins is not "ever" going to be broken or approached. On the hitting side, Dimaggio's 56 game hitting streak looks like a safe record, as well as Ty Cobb's 23 years in a row of hitting at least .300.

ToddZ · Post by **ToddZ** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 3:10 am

The thing that blows my mind about Cy Young is not so much the 511 wins, but he also has the most LOSSES in MLB history with 316.

BEF · Post by **BEF** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 4:37 pm

1912--Outfielder Owen "Chief" Wilson hit 36 triples. Only four guys since 1980 have had even 20 (Willie Wilson and Lance Johnson with 21 and George Brett and Jimmy Rollins with 20). It would take an incredibly special player who plays his home games in a park that has weird dimensions (like Triples Alley at AT&T/SF) to get anywhere close.

Baseball Furies · Post by **Baseball Furies** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 5:19 pm

Okay, I will post daily on this thread until I have exhausted all the "unbreakable" baseball records that have boggled my mind since I've learned about them over the years as a baseball fanatic and reformed stat junkie.

First up: Walter Johnson's 110 career shut-outs is just purely insane and will never be touched in the modern era. He did it over a 21 year stint from 1907-1927. He hurled a mere 11 shut-outs at the ripe old age of 25 in 1913 while pitching 346 innings over 48 games (only 36 of them starts!), and completing 29 of them. He struck out a measly 243 batters over that span (300+ was more the norm for him in two of the previous three seasons), while finishing with a .780 WHIP (also an unfathomable number). Oh, and just for good measure, he was awarded with his THIRD STRAIGHT MVP for his efforts (a feat that will also never be broken by a pitcher) beating out good ole' Shoeless Joe Jackson that year. Johnson would go on to win THREE MORE MVP's in his career before his retirement for a staggering total of SIX in all, Again, another baseball record that will never be broken...

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 5:35 pm

Walter Johnson won MVP's in '13 and '24.

sportsbettingman · Post by **sportsbettingman** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 6:05 pm

Just had to log on back in tonight to state the obvious...Chesty is a dead ringer for (what I'm watching tonight) Boardwalk Empire's version of Al Capone!

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 2:07 am

Great to see you back, Lance!

Navel Lint · Post by **Navel Lint** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 3:57 am

Originally posted by Baseball Furies:

Okay, I will post daily on this thread until I have exhausted all the "unbreakable" baseball records that have boggled my mind since I've learned about them over the years as a baseball fanatic and reformed stat junkie.

First up: Walter Johnson's 110 career shut-outs is just purely insane and will never be touched in the modern era. He did it over a 21 year stint from 1907-1927. He hurled a mere 11 shut-outs at the ripe old age of 25 in 1913 while pitching 346 innings over 48 games (only 36 of them starts!), and completing 29 of them. He struck out a measly 243 batters over that span (300+ was more the norm for him in two of the previous three seasons), while finishing with a .780 WHIP (also an unfathomable number). Oh, and just for good measure, he was awarded with his THIRD STRAIGHT MVP for his efforts (a feat that will also never be broken by a pitcher) beating out good ole' Shoeless Joe Jackson that year. Johnson would go on to win THREE MORE MVP's in his career before his retirement for a staggering total of SIX in all, Again, another baseball record that will never be broken... I don't want to go all 'Whipsaw' on you, but....

You better check some of your unbreakable records before you post each day.

Dan has already mentioned that 'The Big Train' only won two MVP's, and your other unbreakable record of 6 MVP awards has already been bested by Barry Bonds.

Bonds won MVP's 7 times:

'90 '92 '93 '01 '02 '03 '04

He also finished second twice.

P.S. But keep posting stats, there is always something new to learn about this game. You may not have been correct about Johnson's numbers, but I now know that he won two MVP's, something I didn't know before.

[ December 08, 2010, 10:02 AM: Message edited by: Navel Lint ]

Baseball Furies · Post by **Baseball Furies** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 6:55 pm

Originally posted by Navel Lint:

quote:Originally posted by Baseball Furies:

Okay, I will post daily on this thread until I have exhausted all the "unbreakable" baseball records that have boggled my mind since I've learned about them over the years as a baseball fanatic and reformed stat junkie.

First up: Walter Johnson's 110 career shut-outs is just purely insane and will never be touched in the modern era. He did it over a 21 year stint from 1907-1927. He hurled a mere 11 shut-outs at the ripe old age of 25 in 1913 while pitching 346 innings over 48 games (only 36 of them starts!), and completing 29 of them. He struck out a measly 243 batters over that span (300+ was more the norm for him in two of the previous three seasons), while finishing with a .780 WHIP (also an unfathomable number). Oh, and just for good measure, he was awarded with his THIRD STRAIGHT MVP for his efforts (a feat that will also never be broken by a pitcher) beating out good ole' Shoeless Joe Jackson that year. Johnson would go on to win THREE MORE MVP's in his career before his retirement for a staggering total of SIX in all, Again, another baseball record that will never be broken... I don't want to go all 'Whipsaw' on you, but....

You better check some of your unbreakable records before you post each day.

Dan has already mentioned that 'The Big Train' only won two MVP's, and your other unbreakable record of 6 MVP awards has already been bested by Barry Bonds.

Bonds won MVP's 7 times:

'90 '92 '93 '01 '02 '03 '04

He also finished second twice.

P.S. But keep posting stats, there is always something new to learn about this game. You may not have been correct about Johnson's numbers, but I now know that he won two MVP's, something I didn't know before. [/QUOTE]My bad

It was very late/early. Still, how many pitchers have won two MVP's? Bonds records are all bullshit as far as I'm concerned, but still pitchers winning MVP's is a much rarer occurence. The shutout record number is accurate and unbreakable...as is Frank "Homerun" Baker's winning four straight AL homerun titles in the modern era of baseball from 1911-1914 while hitting 11, 10, 12, and 9 homeruns respectively. That's 42 total homeruns over four seasons. Defy anyone to break that one

Ando · Post by **Ando** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 7:22 pm

Furies, I enjoy your thought provoking stat tips of the day as well. Very, very good stuff.

I am not a fan of Bonds and don't appreciate how he accumulated his career statistics. However, he played in an era where many/some/who knows how many of his competitors were doing the same thing. He is the poster child for the entire Steriod Era and his stats, along with hundreds of others, were affected (enhanced) by the era he played in.

Talking along those same lines, you can make the same analogy of Pithcers during the Dead Ball Era. Their records and stats should be held in the same 'bullxxit' light that you hold Bonds' shouldn't they? Their numbers were accumulated based on the era they played in.

A syringe and a needle will have the same lasting effect on the statistical history of the game of baseball as does a baseball that was as soft as a pillow and 3-man rotations with no bullpens with guys who threw about 78mph (notable exception - The Big Train).

My last 3 paragraphs are basically the evolution of the game of baseball. Starts out bare bones with no catchers masks, dead balls, etc., evolves to a middle ground from 1927-1950ish, then players begin to enhance themselves and not the equipment by using greenies and graduating to the analbolic steroid era.

Kind of a sloppy way on my part to describe that a vast majority of the Unbreakable Records are unbreakable only because of the year or era they were established in. I guess I just feel like the same detailed explanation of the era they played in should be used while talking about how Bonds hit 762 and 73 and how Cy Young won 511 or the other remarkable records of the Dead Ball Era. Yet, we all seem to stand in amazement bringing up hilarious stats like the one Cincinnati Reds pitcher referenced earlier in this post but are all disgusted when talking about Bonds, McGwire, etc.

What is truly amazing to me after thinking about all of this is how Ruth hit more home runs than the rest of the league combined ('27?, '24?) and how pitcher like Greg Maddux, Big Unit, and Pedro threw up Dead Ball Era Statlines in the teeth of the Steroid Era.

Looking forward to seeing your nugget tomorrow night!

[ December 09, 2010, 01:51 AM: Message edited by: Ando ]

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Thu Dec 09, 2010 1:36 am

Interesting, in a 'Where's Waldo' or 'What's wrong with this picture' sort of way.

Mike, your 'findings' always have me looking in the record books because something just doesn't sound right.

Home Run Baker does not have any home run records.

During the dead ball era Harry (poor guy with no cool nickname) Davis also had four consecutive home run titles. Davis only hit 38 home runs during his reign of terror.

Both were eclipsed later by Ruth having six titles and 11 of 13 during his hey day.

Even that was bettered later by Ralph Kiner who put together a streak of seven home run titles from 1946- 52. Amazing really, since all players had returned from World War II and most teams were playing at full strength.

For all the pomp and circumstance Bonds receives for being the steroid poster boy, he only led the league in home runs twice, and just one of those titles came at the heigth of the 'juice era'.

A footnote, a scientist during the day calculated how fast Walter Johnson threw a fastball by using a stopwatch to time how long the ball took from leaving his hand to arriving in the catchers mitt. He did the math in feet per second and came up with 91 mph.

Navel Lint · Post by **Navel Lint** » Thu Dec 09, 2010 3:26 am

As with almost all career records, Walter Johnson had what every record holder has; longevity, durability, consistency, and opportunity.

There is no direct evidence of course, but there is plenty of anecdotal evidence that suggest Walter Johnson was one of the hardest throwers of his time. But speed alone doesn’t guarantee success (see Kyle Farnsworth), Johnson had two other factors that contributed. He had great control for a power pitcher and he threw sidearm.

Johnson’s motion was simple, yet deceptive.

He would stand on the rubber, raise his arms, take a step toward home and then sidearm whip the ball toward the plate.

He had very little follow through, his right leg (the push off leg) always trailed behind. Picture a guy like Mitch Williams throwing, his push off leg swung all the way out in front and around his plant leg to the point that his back was almost to the hitter when he was done. Picture Greg Maddux, his push off leg would come square to the plate alongside his plant leg. Johnson’s right leg finished behind his plant leg.

Reading stories and accounts of hitters facing Johnson is their continual surprise that he could throw as hard as he did with that motion and how the ball just seemed to jump up to the plate.

Gates · Post by **Gates** » Thu Dec 09, 2010 3:46 am

Talking about Walter Johnson, during that MVP year (1913), he had an ERA of 1.09, 36 wins and 243 K's...

On another note, did you know what were Charles Radbourn (SP I would think) stats for the year 1884? ERA of 1.38, 60 wins, 441 K's...

Not sure I am following the thread here as I have no idea if his win total is a record but just thought it was a freaky stat...Jeez, I just need two starters with these stats for my teams..

Gates · Post by **Gates** » Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:52 am

Wondering which one of these would be **easier** to break, probably M.Reynolds by himself:

1) Most Strikouts in one game.

Tom Cheney: 21

Team: Washington A.L.

Date: 1962.

2) Most Consecutive Strikouts in one game.

Tom Seaver: 10

Team: New York N.L.

Date: April 22, 1970.

3) Most Home Runs by a Team in one game.

Toronto Blue Jays: 10

Date: September 14, 1987.

4) Most Stolen Bases in one game.

George Gore & Billy Hamilton: 7

Teams: Chicago N.L. & Philadelphia N.L.

Dates: 1881 & 1894

5) Most (RBI) Runs Batted in one game.

Jim Bottomley & Mark Whiten : 12

St. Louis N.L. & St. Louis Cardinals

Dates: 1924 & 1993

Single Year Records

6) Highest Batting Average in one season.

Hugh Duffy: .440

Team: Boston N.L.

Date: 1894.

7) Most Hits in one season.

George Sisler: 257

Team: St. Louis A.L.

Date: 1920

8) Most Consecutive games with a Hit in one season.

Joe DiMaggio: 56

Team: New York Yankees

Date: 1941

9) Most Runs in one season.

William Hamilton: 196

Team: Philadelphia N.L.

Date: 1894

10) Most (RBI) Runs Batted In one season.

Hack Wilson: 191

Team: Chicago

Date: 1930

11) Most (HR) Home Runs in one season.

Barry Bonds: 73

Team: San Francisco Giants

Date: 2001

12) Most Doubles in one season.

Earl Webb: 67

Team: Boston A.L.

Date: 1931

13) Most Triples in one season.

Owen Wilson: 36

Team: Pittsburgh N.L.

Date: 1912

14) Most Bases on Balls in one season.

Barry Bonds: 198

Team: San Francisco Giants

Date: 2002

15) Most Stolen Bases in one season.

Hugh Nicol: 138

Team: Cincinnati A.A.

Date: 1887

16) Most Strikeouts in one season by a hitter.

Mark Reynolds: 223

Team: Arizona Diamondbacks

Date: 2009

Navel Lint · Post by **Navel Lint** » Thu Dec 09, 2010 8:04 am

Originally posted by Gates:

Wondering which one of these would be **easier** to break,

7) Most Hits in one season.

George Sisler: 257

Team: St. Louis A.L.

Date: 1920

I'll go with this one

2004 Ichiro had 262 hits

Winston's Empire · Post by **Winston's Empire** » Thu Dec 09, 2010 8:09 am

6) Highest Batting Average in one season.

Hugh Duffy: .440

Team: Boston N.L.

Date: 1894.

Seems like this record will not be touched anytime soon. Ask George Brett or Tony Gwynn how hard it is to stay above .400 for an entire season. Very, Very unlikely that .440 will be broken.

Gates · Post by **Gates** » Thu Dec 09, 2010 8:11 am

Originally posted by Navel Lint:

quote:Originally posted by Gates:

Wondering which one of these would be **easier** to break,

7) Most Hits in one season.

George Sisler: 257

Team: St. Louis A.L.

Date: 1920

I'll go with this one

2004 Ichiro had 262 hits [/QUOTE]So much for a reliable source...

Should have known there would be mistakes in there when I saw Bonds was still holdong the record for the most K in a single season...

Navel Lint · Post by **Navel Lint** » Thu Dec 09, 2010 8:14 am

Originally posted by Gates:

Wondering which one of these would be **easier** to break,

14) Most Bases on Balls in one season.

Barry Bonds: 198

Team: San Francisco Giants

Date: 2002

Or this one

2004 Barry Bonds had 232 walks

Gates · Post by **Gates** » Thu Dec 09, 2010 8:17 am

Originally posted by Navel Lint:

quote:Originally posted by Gates:

Wondering which one of these would be **easier** to break,

14) Most Bases on Balls in one season.

Barry Bonds: 198

Team: San Francisco Giants

Date: 2002

Or this one

2004 Barry Bonds had 232 walks [/QUOTE]How embarrassing...

How can someone erase a post...

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Thu Dec 09, 2010 9:26 am

So the last record book you got was in 2003, eh Gaetan?