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Post by rockitsauce » Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:28 am

Looks like the deadline has passed, no deal til after the season for Pujols :eek:



If you have the # 1 pk are you:



- more likely to take Pujols now....(he's gonna play w/ even more determination and put up mind-boggling #'s).



or



- less likely to draft Pujols for fear that this contract situation will become a major distraction causing him to have his worst season ever.
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Post by Cobb » Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:41 am

Originally posted by rockitsauce:

Looks like the deadline has passed, no deal til after the season for Pujols :eek:



If you have the # 1 pk are you:



- more likely to take Pujols now....(he's gonna play w/ even more determination and put up mind-boggling #'s).



or



- less likely to draft Pujols for fear that this contract situation will become a major distraction causing him to have his worst season ever. Albert should be #1 regardless...but I'm very happy he didn't sign. I have him in the one league I've done so far and this was the best case scenario in my opinion. Hopefully he doesn't change his mind and still negotiate.



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Post by Winston's Empire » Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:42 am

FOR ALL THE GUYS IN MY UPCOMING SLOW DRAFT:

Well since they failed to come to an agreement, I think he will most likely suck this year because he will be under too much pressure to get paid. You better all pass him to the #12 spot in our draft and take somebody with less risk! ;)



Seriously, I think Albert will have one of the best years of his career and next offseason some team will pay him just over the $275 Million AROD deal. Kinda hope its my Cubs who do the shopping!

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Post by Baseball Furies » Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:00 am

Originally posted by WINSTON'S EMPIRE:

FOR ALL THE GUYS IN MY UPCOMING SLOW DRAFT:

Well since they failed to come to an agreement, I think he will most likely suck this year because he will be under too much pressure to get paid. You better all pass him to the #12 spot in our draft and take somebody with less risk! ;)



Seriously, I think Albert will have one of the best years of his career and next offseason some team will pay him just over the $275 Million AROD deal. Kinda hope its my Cubs who do the shopping!

Max, don't bet on it. You don't become one of the best players in the history of the game because you're mentally weak and can't handle pressure...He's only going to be even more motivated and deadly this year if that's possible. Check out his "down year" from 2007. Teams would pay 20 million/yr. just to have those numbers year in and year out...and that's his floor! :eek:
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Post by Winston's Empire » Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:11 am

I know Mike, I was just kidding, hence the second paragraph with my prediction... Him becoming a Cub is a pipe dream, but we as Cubs fans will settle for Prince Fielder!
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Post by LONG GONE » Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:21 am

Why do the Rangers want to trade Micheal Young? They want to unload salary. They will be bidding on a first basemen in 2011. New owners do crazy things with money, Albert Pujols a Texas Ranger.

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Post by LONG GONE » Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:44 am

Pujols,Gonzalez,Fielder





Teams that will want to be involved.

1. Red Sox

2. Cardinals

3. Rangers

4. Cubs

5. Nationals

6. Orioles

7. Blue Jays

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Post by LONG GONE » Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:55 am

If the Giants can move Zito? Add the Giants to the list.

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Post by Chest Rockwell » Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:15 am

Originally posted by LONG GONE:

If the Giants can move Zito? Add the Giants to the list. And that is the same likelihood that I get a shampoo endorsement deal. Well they could call the Angels who are probably too busy negotiating for Alfonso Soriano and Carlos Lee.

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Post by Scott Boras » Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:42 am

IF the recent speculation is accurate in that the Cards offer was for 19-21 million annually, a couple possibilities come to mind.



Do the Cards feel Pujols is in decline and/or prone to injury



OR



Are the Cards simply incompetent?



One has to assume that Pujols was looking for Arod money and for the Cards to make that offer seems insulting. We're talking about an all-time great who is still in his prime and is the face of the franchise. What's the angle here? What am I missing? Sure, 30 mil is a TON of money for most teams and it's unlikely Pujols will be worth 30 mil per when he's 40, but if you're ever going to take that plunge, don't you have to take it with Albert? Why even risk watching him play for New York?

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Post by headhunters » Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:57 am

i will tell you what you are missing. you are missing what the offer was. you, me, buster onley- we all don't know. espn has about 50 guys whose only job is to come on radio, tv, internet, twitter etc etc etc and say SOMETHING. all of this talk does one thing- create interest. keep in mind it is all just talk. this whole offseason the whole lot of them has been more wrong- way more wrong- than right. cliff lee was going to texas or the yanks or this or that. for 2 months that is all we heard. 2 minutes before deadline he is with phillies. ditto crawford. all...just....talk

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Post by Scott Boras » Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:12 am

Originally posted by headhunters:

i will tell you what you are missing. you are missing what the offer was. you, me, buster onley- we all don't know. espn has about 50 guys whose only job is to come on radio, tv, internet, twitter etc etc etc and say SOMETHING. all of this talk does one thing- create interest. keep in mind it is all just talk. this whole offseason the whole lot of them has been more wrong- way more wrong- than right. cliff lee was going to texas or the yanks or this or that. for 2 months that is all we heard. 2 minutes before deadline he is with phillies. ditto crawford. all...just....talk Fair enough although I did preface with "IF." All valid points though IMO Ken Rosenthal tends to be right more often than others. Forget the rumored figures, I guess my lingering question is how/why didn't St.Louis get this done? What figure would possibly scare them off from retaining the services of one of the best players of all time? Does Pujols want 35mil per? Are the Cards banking on Fielder and Gonzalez saturating the market and driving each other's demands down? Are they less threatened because Teixeira is signed long term in New York? It'll be interesting to watch it play out. They may end up regretting not giving El Hombre a blank check.

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Post by Cobb » Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:21 am

Originally posted by Scott Boras:

IF the recent speculation is accurate in that the Cards offer was for 19-21 million annually, a couple possibilities come to mind.



Do the Cards feel Pujols is in decline and/or prone to injury



OR



Are the Cards simply incompetent?



One has to assume that Pujols was looking for Arod money and for the Cards to make that offer seems insulting. We're talking about an all-time great who is still in his prime and is the face of the franchise. What's the angle here? What am I missing? Sure, 30 mil is a TON of money for most teams and it's unlikely Pujols will be worth 30 mil per when he's 40, but if you're ever going to take that plunge, don't you have to take it with Albert? Why even risk watching him play for New York? I think there is one other possibility, the Cards might know his real age...
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Post by DOUGHBOYS » Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:40 am

The Cardinals are in a tough situation.

If they don't sign Pujols, every non baseball fan will question why. Every St. Louis fan will question why. So will most other fans.

Fact is, if they do sign him, their payroll is pretty much screwed for the length of the contract. I don't feel sorry for the Cardinals. They created this mess by signing Holliday, knowing two years later that this day was coming.



I don't know all the particulars about how much ownership wants to put on the payroll for the next umpteen years, but plain and simple, I might lean towards letting him go to another team and start planning for it now, instead of trying to open up negotiations again.



Pujols wants paid like the best hitter in baseball for the next 8-10 years, he'll only be the best hitter two, three tops during that time, then becomes more of a payroll drag with each passing year.



Kelly Uganski stated that the ARod contract was a product of the Rangers bidding against themselves in the first place, and he's right. So the neighborhood Pujols wants to be in, shouldn't have existed. But, it does, and Pujols wants the key.



If this were the 50's and Pujols asked Branch Rickey for a raise, Rickey would say, "Kid, we didn't finish in first place with you, we can do it without you too".



The money freed up by not having Pujols on the payroll pays for Adam Wainwright and keeps St. Louis in the ballgame for other less expensive free agents. The players and prospects garnered in a trade at the deadline would be a jackpot for both the Cardinals and their trading partner. Pujols has leverage here too, being a 10-5 guy, but will probably want to be in a pennant chase, should St. Louis be floundering.



It'll take cajones from the St. Louis brass. It'll be news that their fans don't want to hear. But, it may be the right thing for the franchise.



I noticed that the Yankees haven't been listed as a team that would be interested in Pujols. I think they would. A 1B/DH tandem of Pujols/ Teixeira would be fiercesome and get the Yankees back on an offensive footing equal to the Red Sox.



And just throwing this thought out there, since we're all doing guesswork-

What if the Yankees moved Jeter to the outfield next year, put ARod back at short for one year, put Pujols back at one of his old positions at 3b?

An infield of:

1b-Teixeira

2b- Cano

3b- Pujols

ss- ARod



Every Yankee fan is probably feeling a little pre-jiz just thinking about the possibility.

NFBC'ers may like it as well. Three of the best players in baseball with dual positionality.



Hey, it's fun to think about, right? :D
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Post by LONG GONE » Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:42 am







Just a thought. Maybe you could join an auction league and pay $61 dollars a season for him over the next 10 years. Do you think you will win?

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Post by bjoak » Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:54 am

Research indicates that hitters have better years in contract years. Research does not show that contract years are distracting. But please feel free to think so if you are drafting first and I am drafting second.



[ February 16, 2011, 05:56 PM: Message edited by: bjoak ]
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Post by Scott Boras » Wed Feb 16, 2011 3:08 pm

Originally posted by DOUGHBOYS:

The Cardinals are in a tough situation.

If they don't sign Pujols, every non baseball fan will question why. Every St. Louis fan will question why. So will most other fans.

Fact is, if they do sign him, their payroll is pretty much screwed for the length of the contract. I don't feel sorry for the Cardinals. They created this mess by signing Holliday, knowing two years later that this day was coming.



I don't know all the particulars about how much ownership wants to put on the payroll for the next umpteen years, but plain and simple, I might lean towards letting him go to another team and start planning for it now, instead of trying to open up negotiations again.



Pujols wants paid like the best hitter in baseball for the next 8-10 years, he'll only be the best hitter two, three tops during that time, then becomes more of a payroll drag with each passing year.



Kelly Uganski stated that the ARod contract was a product of the Rangers bidding against themselves in the first place, and he's right. So the neighborhood Pujols wants to be in, shouldn't have existed. But, it does, and Pujols wants the key.



If this were the 50's and Pujols asked Branch Rickey for a raise, Rickey would say, "Kid, we didn't finish in first place with you, we can do it without you too".



The money freed up by not having Pujols on the payroll pays for Adam Wainwright and keeps St. Louis in the ballgame for other less expensive free agents. The players and prospects garnered in a trade at the deadline would be a jackpot for both the Cardinals and their trading partner. Pujols has leverage here too, being a 10-5 guy, but will probably want to be in a pennant chase, should St. Louis be floundering.



It'll take cajones from the St. Louis brass. It'll be news that their fans don't want to hear. But, it may be the right thing for the franchise.



I noticed that the Yankees haven't been listed as a team that would be interested in Pujols. I think they would. A 1B/DH tandem of Pujols/ Teixeira would be fiercesome and get the Yankees back on an offensive footing equal to the Red Sox.



And just throwing this thought out there, since we're all doing guesswork-

What if the Yankees moved Jeter to the outfield next year, put ARod back at short for one year, put Pujols back at one of his old positions at 3b?

An infield of:

1b-Teixeira

2b- Cano

3b- Pujols

ss- ARod



Every Yankee fan is probably feeling a little pre-jiz just thinking about the possibility.

NFBC'ers may like it as well. Three of the best players in baseball with dual positionality.



Hey, it's fun to think about, right? :D The Holliday contract looks brilliant compared to the Lohse contract. At least Holliday is earning some of it.



2-3 more years, that's it? You're probably right. I'm interested to see if Arod bounces back this year. If not the Yankees are in for a long ride. Of course we knew that from jump street.



I'd like to see MLB adapt a policy that allows teams an advantage to signing long tenured players. Doesn't NBA have something similar to that? It doesn't seem right that Pujols could finish his career elsewhere, though it's looking like he probably will.



Good point to whoever questioned Pujols' age. He could be another Tejada incident. Would explain how he entered the league at such an advanced level, but doesn't explain why he's still at that level.

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Post by Scott Boras » Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:48 am

Pujols allegedly laughed when informed of the rumored offer figures. Headhunters, looks like you hit the nail on the head. Talk, talk, and more talk... Maybe he ends up in St Louis after all?

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Post by Cobb » Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:56 am

Originally posted by Scott Boras:

quote:Originally posted by DOUGHBOYS:

The Cardinals are in a tough situation.

If they don't sign Pujols, every non baseball fan will question why. Every St. Louis fan will question why. So will most other fans.

Fact is, if they do sign him, their payroll is pretty much screwed for the length of the contract. I don't feel sorry for the Cardinals. They created this mess by signing Holliday, knowing two years later that this day was coming.



I don't know all the particulars about how much ownership wants to put on the payroll for the next umpteen years, but plain and simple, I might lean towards letting him go to another team and start planning for it now, instead of trying to open up negotiations again.



Pujols wants paid like the best hitter in baseball for the next 8-10 years, he'll only be the best hitter two, three tops during that time, then becomes more of a payroll drag with each passing year.



Kelly Uganski stated that the ARod contract was a product of the Rangers bidding against themselves in the first place, and he's right. So the neighborhood Pujols wants to be in, shouldn't have existed. But, it does, and Pujols wants the key.



If this were the 50's and Pujols asked Branch Rickey for a raise, Rickey would say, "Kid, we didn't finish in first place with you, we can do it without you too".



The money freed up by not having Pujols on the payroll pays for Adam Wainwright and keeps St. Louis in the ballgame for other less expensive free agents. The players and prospects garnered in a trade at the deadline would be a jackpot for both the Cardinals and their trading partner. Pujols has leverage here too, being a 10-5 guy, but will probably want to be in a pennant chase, should St. Louis be floundering.



It'll take cajones from the St. Louis brass. It'll be news that their fans don't want to hear. But, it may be the right thing for the franchise.



I noticed that the Yankees haven't been listed as a team that would be interested in Pujols. I think they would. A 1B/DH tandem of Pujols/ Teixeira would be fiercesome and get the Yankees back on an offensive footing equal to the Red Sox.



And just throwing this thought out there, since we're all doing guesswork-

What if the Yankees moved Jeter to the outfield next year, put ARod back at short for one year, put Pujols back at one of his old positions at 3b?

An infield of:

1b-Teixeira

2b- Cano

3b- Pujols

ss- ARod



Every Yankee fan is probably feeling a little pre-jiz just thinking about the possibility.

NFBC'ers may like it as well. Three of the best players in baseball with dual positionality.



Hey, it's fun to think about, right? :D The Holliday contract looks brilliant compared to the Lohse contract. At least Holliday is earning some of it.



2-3 more years, that's it? You're probably right. I'm interested to see if Arod bounces back this year. If not the Yankees are in for a long ride. Of course we knew that from jump street.



I'd like to see MLB adapt a policy that allows teams an advantage to signing long tenured players. Doesn't NBA have something similar to that? It doesn't seem right that Pujols could finish his career elsewhere, though it's looking like he probably will.



Good point to whoever questioned Pujols' age. He could be another Tejada incident. Would explain how he entered the league at such an advanced level, but doesn't explain why he's still at that level.
[/QUOTE]I questioned his age and whether the Cards actually know the truth. There may only be a year or two difference, that's why he's still at the level. If he played last year at 31-32 instead of 30, you probably wouldn't see much difference. But if you're giving a 10 year deal, would you rather have hime wrap it up at 40, or have him play 3 years at 40 or above at 28 per?
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Post by TParsons » Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:16 am

Pujols was a bad fielder at 3b when he last played it in 2002 (?), and he's lost a step, so there's no chance of a move back to 3b.



A rule similar to the NBA wouldn't work here. The NBA's rules (Larry Bird rule) just allow their current teams to sign the player to max contracts and go over the salary cap. Without a salary cap in MLB this is a moot point.



Where the Cardinals went wrong is not extending him prior to last season. The price is always going to go up as long as the player is performing. Now they would basically have to salavage the entire franchise for one player. Having one player take up 25% of your payroll is just not a good business model. If they sign Pujols they can say good bye to Carpenter at season's end and Wainwright in 2013. Pujols is good, but if they do it, they better pray that Jaime Garcia, Shelby Miller, and Lance Lynn pan out or they are in trouble. As crazy as it sounds, and as bad as the cards front office would be hammered, it may be a better idea to just let him walk. There are a lot of ways they could spend that money that would have been given to Albert. They could try to go after Prince and still have the money to lock Wainwright up, they could move Berkman back to 1b and get a decent fielding RF and possibly go after someone like Reyes at SS...and still have the money to lock Wainwright up. just my 2c

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Post by DOUGHBOYS » Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:23 am

The rational for Pujols at 3b, can be extended to Jeter at shortstop now.

Defense is less of a concern for the Yankees.
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Post by Scott Boras » Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:33 am

Originally posted by DOUGHBOYS:

The rational for Pujols at 3b, can be extended to Jeter at shortstop now.

Defense is less of a concern for the Yankees. With that dream lineup, as long as Burnett can keep his ERA in single digits (fingers crossed), they'd be golden! It'll be fun watching the Yankees set the record for runs scored AND runs allowed in the same season.



Speaking of which, what team holds the record for fantasy first rounders in the same season? Philly's Rollins, Howard, and Utley/ Halladay, Howard, and Utley? Maybe NY sets the record at 4 with that infield.

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Post by TParsons » Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:34 am

I would say that the reason Derek Jeter is still playing SS in NY has as much to do with him being Derek Jeter as it does with the Yankees not caring about defense. If he wasn't an icon in pinstripes, he would likely have already been moved off of SS. Arod has also lost a step and would be miserable at SS as well. A left side of Arod and Pujols defensively is far worse than a left side of Jeter and Arod. You would also have to get Albert to buy into switching positions again, which I doubt he would be willing to do at this point in his career.



I believe it's more likely the Yankees would find some way to trade Teixeira or DH either him or Teixeira than to sign Pujols to play 3b.



[ February 17, 2011, 09:38 AM: Message edited by: TParsons ]

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Post by Scott Boras » Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:40 am

Originally posted by TParsons:

I would say that the reason Derek Jeter is still playing SS in NY has as much to do with him being Derek Jeter as it does with the Yankees not caring about defense. If he wasn't an icon in pinstripes, he would likely have already been moved off of SS. Arod has also lost a step and would be miserable at SS as well. A left side of Arod and Pujols defensively is far worse than a left side of Jeter and Arod. You would also have to get Albert to buy into switching positions again, which I doubt he would be willing to do at this point in his career.



I would say it's more likely the Yankees would find some way to trade Teixeira or DH either him or Teixeira than to sign Pujols to play 3b. I'd switch positions for $300,000,000.00. Wouldn't you?

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Post by TParsons » Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:46 am

Originally posted by Scott Boras:

quote:Originally posted by TParsons:

I would say that the reason Derek Jeter is still playing SS in NY has as much to do with him being Derek Jeter as it does with the Yankees not caring about defense. If he wasn't an icon in pinstripes, he would likely have already been moved off of SS. Arod has also lost a step and would be miserable at SS as well. A left side of Arod and Pujols defensively is far worse than a left side of Jeter and Arod. You would also have to get Albert to buy into switching positions again, which I doubt he would be willing to do at this point in his career.



I would say it's more likely the Yankees would find some way to trade Teixeira or DH either him or Teixeira than to sign Pujols to play 3b. I'd switch positions for $300,000,000.00. Wouldn't you?
[/QUOTE]It won't be for $300M though. It would be for what 25M over 10 yrs? If I'm Albert, I don't do it for that. Surely someone would come within $25M of the Yankees offer. With that said, I don't see the Yankees even being in on Albert. They are going to need to lock CC up and sign at least one more FA pitcher, if not 2-3.



[ February 17, 2011, 09:48 AM: Message edited by: TParsons ]

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