ManRam retires!!!

Bullgod · Post by **Bullgod** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:21 am

According to this site...

http://www.rotoinfo.com/read_comment.ph ... ntId=69815

whipsaw · Post by **whipsaw** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:31 am

Only speculation but I bet the Rays wanted him to play part time and he balked. Or they found out he was taking PEDs again.

Scott Boras · Post by **Scott Boras** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:32 am

Wow!!! Talk about a shock for a lot of team's 12th round pick expecting a bounce back! His HOF chances while doubtful before are now non-existant.

Scott Boras · Post by **Scott Boras** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:33 am

Originally posted by whipsaw:

Only speculation but I bet the Rays wanted him to play part time and he balked. Or they found out he was taking PEDs again. Rumor is he retired rather than deal with another PED suspension. This explains the "personal issue" he's been dealing with. Ouch!

76erfan · Post by **76erfan** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:34 am

He violated a drug policy again and rather than go through the process, he quit. Typical Manny. We just spent alot of our faab money on him in the KJ contract league. What a waste.

The Mighty Men · Post by **The Mighty Men** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:36 am

I saw enough of Manny last year with his short stint with the White Sox. He was toast. I didn't care how "great" he looked in spring training, lost skills are lost for good. Not even his last gasp at PEDs was going to help.

Dirt Dogs · Post by **Dirt Dogs** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:37 am

Sam Fuld!!!!

Bullgod · Post by **Bullgod** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:37 am

I guess it's just Manny being Manny...translation Manny being a selfish egotistical jag!

Glad I didn't waste a pick on him. Sorry to those that did. He bit me two years ago when I took him in the 2nd round and he got caught juicing then. Swore I'd never take the pud again.

Snord35 · Post by **Snord35** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:43 am

Well I got this one right on Marks team.

"12. MRAM OF3 - He will have to try more than just fertility drugs to get some life into his bat! I think Thome offers more than Manny this year."

It's too bad Manny ended his career this way. His shot at the HOF is for sure done now too.

MadCow Sez · Post by **MadCow Sez** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 2:54 pm

Damn shame....Manny, say hello to Raffy, the bash brothers, Rocket and Barry.

Manny being Manny was always good for entertainment.

Saw him make an amazing catch in Fenway....he looked shocked that he even caught it but still had the presence of mind and enough of a head start to double off the runner who thought there was no way Manny would run it down, let alone catch it. the expression on Manny's face was classic.

Gekko · Post by **Gekko** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 3:07 pm

Originally posted by MadCow Sez:

Saw him make an amazing catch in Fenway....he looked shocked that he even caught it but still had the presence of mind and enough of a head start to double off the runner who thought there was no way Manny would run it down, let alone catch it. the expression on Manny's face was classic.

GoodnGodless · Post by **GoodnGodless** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 8:16 pm

Manny being Barry.

Sorry, couldn't resist. Like 'em both.

Cotton1 · Post by **Cotton1** » Sat Apr 09, 2011 12:51 am

I would never condone what he and Barry and Mcgwire and how many other countless players have done re PEDS, but the other side of the coin is we are now fighting over frickin' Sam Fuld and Willie Bloomquist....

:rolleyes:

Scott Boras · Post by **Scott Boras** » Sat Apr 09, 2011 3:05 am

When PED debates come up, a common question is how much do PEDs actually improve performance? After all, Barry Bonds was carving our a HOF career BEFORE his head started growing at an unusual rate (not 73 HR good, but good). Of course the answer is subjective and impossible to answer universally, but in Manny's case the answer is obvious. On PEDs he was one of the best hitters of his generation, a first ballot hall of famer. Off the juice he was a replacement level player, maybe worse (at least in his late 30's). Pretty significant difference.

Sebadiah23 · Post by **Sebadiah23** » Sat Apr 09, 2011 9:10 am

The last thing I want to do is defend Manny, which I'm not, but let me just say this.

When Mike Schmidt entered his age 38 and 39 years, he suddenly became a shadow of himself. And in May of 1989, during a road trip in San Diego, he made an error, he was batting .203, and no one was going to take him out of the lineup, he just decided right there that he was done. Press conference- tears- and he was gone forever. 5 years later, he made the Hall-of-Fame. It didn't matter that he sucked when he turned 38.

Manny, Roger, and some of these other guys are getting greedy and want to be awesome even up to age 42. They have giant egos already by rule, giant heads pun-intended, and don't want to be a shadow of themselves.

Due to that greed though, we have no idea when Manny actually started using PEDs heavily. Was it just to prolong his career to not end abruptly like many other stars' have, or did Manny milk the effect of roids for YEARS? Since Manny, Barry, and a few others wear super baggy uniforms two sizes too big to hide their bodies, its often hard to tell. And we are forced to err towards skepticism. And that's too bad. Because Manny was clearly beyond good. But we have no choice.

-Craig

The Mighty Men · Post by **The Mighty Men** » Sat Apr 09, 2011 11:01 am

I believe Manny is a self-centered greedy pig who cared only about himself.

But setting aside my own opinion, we don't have to err much to skepticism. This is what Buster Olney wrote today on ESPN:

BOSTON -- Manny Ramirez looks like a different guy this spring, we heard over and over. Wow, his bat speed looks so much better, scouts raved. The guy is in phenomenal condition, they said. He looks a lot stronger, they said.

The Red Sox players saw the same thing. After word broke Friday that Ramirez had retired instead of facing suspension, David Ortiz said that the Boston players talked in their dugout this spring about how good Manny looked, how quick his bat was. This was especially striking, because late last season, in his brief time with the White Sox, Ramirez's bat speed had all but disappeared, and evaluators from some teams were convinced he was finished.

But now he's gone, retiring abruptly after he was informed that he had tested positive for a performance-enhancing drug and faced a possible 100-game suspension.

Former teammates like Jonathan Papelbon and Ortiz and B.J. Upton and Andre Ethier spoke respectfully about what a good teammate he was, what an incredible talent he was. And Hall of Fame voters, like colleague Jayson Stark and I, will mention, fairly, the incredible numbers Ramirez compiled, the 555 home runs and the .312 career average, and we will weigh how the circumstances of his retirement will weigh in the rendering of his legacy.

And where is Manny in all of this? Well, he's probably laughing at everybody.

Legacy? Hall of Fame? Teammates? Does anyone really think, after all we've seen in the past decade, that Ramirez cares about any of that?

He won. He's like the guy who robbed a bank of millions and was sentenced to 10 hours of community service.

According to his page on Baseballreference.com, Manny Ramirez made over $200 million for his career. How many of those dollars, those 555 home runs, were hit with the help of performance-enhancing drugs? Who knows? You could say a handful or you could say all of them and this would be fair speculation, given the evidence of his stunningly shameless use of performance-enhancing drugs in recent years.

For the first half of Ramirez's career, Major League Baseball was a wild, wild West of steroid use, with widespread use and virtually no oversight. Oh, sure, there was a loose structure in place whereby a crackdown was possible, but no one ever really did anything.

But in 2002, the players' union that Ramirez is a part of took its first steps toward drug testing, largely because a number of players within it lobbied quietly for change. Veterans like Todd Zeile had come to understand that the increase in drug use had forced many players to make a very difficult decision: Either stay clean, without benefit of performance-enhancing drugs, and risk being surpassed professionally by players who were juicing; or join the crowd and take the drugs too.

The union agreed to survey testing, in an effort to keep all of the union brethren on a level playing field. And despite the fact that everybody knew when the tests were being administered, and despite all that was at stake for the reputation of the union, Ramirez reportedly tested positive in 2003. He apparently didn't care about the whole level playing-field thing, or the fact that a positive test might lead to more testing for others; he used anyway. He was perfectly willing to cheat teammates, cheat other players.

In the summer of 2008, as his contract with the Red Sox was set to expire, he forced his way out of Boston -- convincing club executives that he was intent on sabotaging the team -- and in two months with the Dodgers, he put on a stunning display of production, hitting about .400. He looked liked a different guy with the Dodgers. His bat speed looks so much better, scouts raved. The guy is in phenomenal condition, they said. He looks a lot stronger, they said.

And after getting an extension of two years and $45 million, he was suspended under the terms of baseball's drug policy. In other words, knowing all the risks -- to his own legacy, his Hall of Fame chances, his reputation -- he apparently opted to drug up, to cheat his employers, teammates, union brethren.

His last months with the Dodgers were an embarrassment. He was often hurt, and only intermittently productive. The Dodgers, finally fed up with him, dumped him in a late-season deal with the White Sox, and Ramirez mustered exactly one RBI.

Manny was very motivated as he joined the Rays, we heard. He was in tremendous condition, we heard. This was another contract year.

And for at least the third time in his career, he weighed the risks versus the rewards and signs seem to indicate he opted to juice up, again. He was willing to break the rules and cheat his employers, teammates, union brethren, and fans. He got caught, and his career is over.

Let's be real about this: Manny Ramirez wasn't the only one who cashed in on Manny being Manny. The Indians and the Red Sox and the Dodgers made money from his production and from that what-a-wild-crazy-guy image -- Mannywood? -- and the media feasted, as well; there were probably more words written and spoken about Manny in the past decade than any player not named Barry Bonds or Roger Clemens.

But now Manny is headed to Spain, where he can have a big laugh at the expense of all those folks he left behind.

He won.

Gekko · Post by **Gekko** » Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:06 am

Originally posted by The Mighty Men:

I believe Manny is a self-centered greedy pig who cared only about himself.

WOODERSON · Post by **WOODERSON** » Sun Apr 10, 2011 6:20 am

Thanks 4 all the good cheatin' times Manny!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Mighty Men · Post by **The Mighty Men** » Sun Apr 10, 2011 6:35 am

Originally posted by Gekko:

quote:Originally posted by The Mighty Men:

I believe Manny is a self-centered greedy pig who cared only about himself.

[/QUOTE]Too strong?