Wilson Valdez pitching stats

jdoggmms · Post by **jdoggmms** » Thu May 26, 2011 6:27 am

Wilson Valdez switched from 2b to pitch the top of the 19th inning last night for the victory. I am one of a handful of desperate owners who actually had Valdez active in spite of Utley's return on Monday. His pitching line was included in the Live Scoring yesterday, but has been removed this morning.

The issue of pitching stats accrued by position players is not addressed in the league rules. However, back in 2009, I owned Nick Swisher when he pitched a scoreless inning and even struck someone out. Those stats counted for my season stats. I tried looking up old posts on the message board, but wasn't able to find anything. I'm pretty sure it was discussed. I explicitly remember being pleasantly surprised that the stats counted, so I double-checked at the end of the week to see if they had been removed, which they hadn't. I'm not sure who was responsible for the back end processing at the time (i think it was Stats) but it definitely was pre-fanball so it wasn't a glitch from that short-lived era.

Based on this precedent, I believe Valdez's stats should be counted. Obviously, a win is a much bigger deal than a scoreless frame and a K. Especially in a high stakes Ultimate league. I am requesting commissioner intervention.

Money · Post by **Money** » Thu May 26, 2011 6:35 am

Originally posted by jdoggmms:

Wilson Valdez switched from 2b to pitch the top of the 19th inning last night for the victory. I am one of a handful of desperate owners who actually had Valdez active in spite of Utley's return on Monday. His pitching line was included in the Live Scoring yesterday, but has been removed this morning.

The issue of pitching stats accrued by position players is not addressed in the league rules. However, back in 2009, I owned Nick Swisher when he pitched a scoreless inning and even struck someone out. Those stats counted for my season stats. I tried looking up old posts on the message board, but wasn't able to find anything. I'm pretty sure it was discussed. I explicitly remember being pleasantly surprised that the stats counted, so I double-checked at the end of the week to see if they had been removed, which they hadn't. I'm not sure who was responsible for the back end processing at the time (i think it was Stats) but it definitely was pre-fanball so it wasn't a glitch from that short-lived era.

Based on this precedent, I believe Valdez's stats should be counted. Obviously, a win is a much bigger deal than a scoreless frame and a K. Especially in a high stakes Ultimate league. I am requesting commissioner intervention. This is a very interesting point although I believe the prevailing opinion will be that pitchers hitting stats do not count, therefore hitters pitching stats shouldn't either.

Either way it isn't a season breaker. Good Luck.

whipsaw · Post by **whipsaw** » Thu May 26, 2011 7:21 am

the overview section of the rules seem to take care of this situation in my eyes. five categories are assigned to hitters, and five assigned to pitchers. if you had valdez listed as one of your nine P slots, then you'd get the win. if he's among your hitters, then that is not a category they can accrue.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Thu May 26, 2011 7:22 am

Pitchers have never accumulated hitting stats in the NFBC and hitters have never accumulated pitching stats. This is not the first time a hitter has come in to pitch since the NFBC was formed in 2004 and at no point were pitching stats counted for those hitters. Trust me, more times than not the hitters would not get a win in that situation or accumulate plus pitching totals for you. What happened last night was rare.

But there is no way that Swisher or any other fulltime hitter ever accumulated pitching stats in the NFBC and Valdez won't here, either.

Fourslot40 · Post by **Fourslot40** » Thu May 26, 2011 7:25 am

Rare indeed - The last player that played in the field and then pitched and won a ballgame was BABE RUTH.

jdoggmms · Post by **jdoggmms** » Thu May 26, 2011 7:34 am

I wish there was a way to prove the Swisher inning wasn't counted because I'm almost sure it did. Anybody else own Swish and remember getting his pitching stats? It didn't matter much to me at the time but I duly noted the anomaly. Do you have access to old records Greg? If so, it would be nice to see some confirmation. Anyway, losing Buster Posey is a much bigger issue for my team than Valdez's win

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Thu May 26, 2011 7:43 am

Originally posted by jdoggmms:

I wish there was a way to prove the Swisher inning wasn't counted because I'm almost sure it did. Anybody else own Swish and remember getting his pitching stats? It didn't matter much to me at the time but I duly noted the anomaly. Do you have access to old records Greg? If so, it would be nice to see some confirmation. Anyway, losing Buster Posey is a much bigger issue for my team than Valdez's win

Sure I can look that up. STATS ran the NFBC in 2009, so we are the source for that information. And it wasn't included. There would most definitely be a thread on these boards about that and of course every other position player who pitched before or after him would have accumulated pitching stats. It doesn't happen and I think we're all glad it doesn't happen. Most position players pitch in a 16-1 blowout to fill the last couple of innings and get terrible pitching lines. That would just be dumb, bad luck if we included pitching stats for position players.

The rules certainly don't include for this happening and rules shouldn't have to state things that they DON'T count, like position players NOT getting pitching stats.

Sorry about the Posey injury. I feel bad for the young guy. He was a big, big part of that World Series team and a big part of that franchise going forward.

jdoggmms · Post by **jdoggmms** » Thu May 26, 2011 7:54 am

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

quote:Originally posted by jdoggmms:

I wish there was a way to prove the Swisher inning wasn't counted because I'm almost sure it did. Anybody else own Swish and remember getting his pitching stats? It didn't matter much to me at the time but I duly noted the anomaly. Do you have access to old records Greg? If so, it would be nice to see some confirmation. Anyway, losing Buster Posey is a much bigger issue for my team than Valdez's win

Sure I can look that up. STATS ran the NFBC in 2009, so we are the source for that information. And it wasn't included. There would most definitely be a thread on these boards about that and of course every other position player who pitched before or after him would have accumulated pitching stats. It doesn't happen and I think we're all glad it doesn't happen. Most position players pitch in a 16-1 blowout to fill the last couple of innings and get terrible pitching lines. That would just be dumb, bad luck if we included pitching stats for position players.

The rules certainly don't include for this happening and rules shouldn't have to state things that they DON'T count, like position players NOT getting pitching stats.

Sorry about the Posey injury. I feel bad for the young guy. He was a big, big part of that World Series team and a big part of that franchise going forward. [/QUOTE]no problem Greg. Thanks for the explanation. I do however, think it should be clearly stated in the rules because strange things can and will continue to happen. For example, what if Rick Ankiel switches back to pitching mid-season? Or if Big Z gets traded to an AL team and DHs semi-full time? I do believe, one day, we will see a good enough hitting pitcher on an AL team that will be employed in such a role. Would we be able to start the same player as both a hitter and pitcher? Just food for thought...

Fourslot40 · Post by **Fourslot40** » Fri May 27, 2011 1:54 am

I do believe, one day, we will see a good enough hitting pitcher on an AL team that will be employed in such a role. Would we be able to start the same player as both a hitter and pitcher? Just food for thought... [/QB][/QUOTE]

There have been experiments with such players in recent years... Micah Owings and Brooks Kieshnick to name a few. Either way, it's irrelevant. The rule as it stands today is how it should always remain.

[ May 27, 2011, 07:55 AM: Message edited by: Fourslot40 ]