More drafting rounds!

triple a · Post by **triple a** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 1:39 am

I think a better way of determining a true champion would be to have a bigger draft and no free agent pickups, or have it once during the allstar break. we should draft 40 rounds at the draft, then have one pickup day at the allstar break. If you have a bad draft (draft minor league starters, dl guys) the way it is now you can just pickup starters before the season starts because we do not draft enough rounds. No advantage to the better drafter. The first free agent session should not be at least until 2 weeks into the season. At least. Just my opinion. the champion should have to earn it by drafting good players, not getting lucky by picking up free agents all year. EX. if you are a good player and pick all starters on reserve, you dont need to pickup free agents before the year starts. The other teams who arent so good get to fill out the rest of their roster and release their bad picks with new starting players. just my opinion. more drafting would be a better way to show a true champion. what do you guys think? i would like to hear your opinions. thanks, triple a

nydownunder · Post by **nydownunder** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 2:25 am

You don't fix something that already works.

Jackstraw · Post by **Jackstraw** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 2:42 am

That's an interesting thought but I don't think that is the best way to perform the draft.

Reason 1: We already had about ten million complaints about the draft being too long. This would probably double or triple the length of time it would take to draft players.

Reason 2: If your draft sucks (i.e. you are not a good player), then you are going to have to spend your FAAB money to correct the mistakes you made. If you draft well, you won't need to use the money. But I think there is a lot of merit in your idea of waiting a week or two to make free agents available. Personally, I wasn't about to spend any money during the first week.

Reason 3: We draft two weeks before the season begins and there is a lot of doubt as to who is going to make a lot of rosters. If we followed your method then there is a lot left to chance that wouldn't help to attract more players to fill my pockets with more money when I win this thing

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 2:54 am

This is a very interesting post, Artie, especially since it comes from last year's $100,000 champion who definitely benefited from wise FAAB pickups last year. I agree that a 40-man roster would be a truer Draft Day test of knowledge, but my goal in the NFBC isn't to have this contest won solely by your Draft Day skills. I also want in-season management to be a key factor and thus those 26 weeks of FAAB pickups adds another element of skill.

Just looking at this week's FAAB winners, you can see the different strategies implemented by several owners. Some owners DESPERATELY needed to fill holes in their lineups and spent wildly to get speed and unexpected starters who weren't even among the 450 players selected in their leagues. I don't consider that luck, especially since they had to outbid 14 other owners for those players while still managing their FAAB budget enough to have some money left during the next 25 FAAB periods.

I'm not shooting down your idea because I'd love to hear more thoughts about expanding Draft Day, but I just wanted to say that allowing in-season acquisitions still involves a lot of strategy and I think it adds to the skill aspect instead of taking away from it.

Goggles Pisano · Post by **Goggles Pisano** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 4:06 am

Draft day is long enough, especially when they conduct all 3 drafts(Auction, Main, Ultimate)on the same weekend. Its simply not feesible to make draft weekend any longer. I was in NY/Chicago Mixed Auction League and it took 7-1/2 hours!!!!!

If you want a true competition where the best man wins, than you should be able to pickup free agents 24 hours a day, 7 days a week for free. The current system penalizes people like myself who check baseball news 5 or 6 times a day and can gain a leg up by being current on injuries and demotions to the minors. The system in place now is designed to give everyone a fair chance to pickup free agents by releasing everyone on the same day. The current sytem is amateurist and it sucks when I hear a valuable piece of news that can help my club, but I have to wait up to 7 days to take advantage of it. By then, its no longer an advantage.

Do you think if Brian Cashman found out a player was available he would accept having to wait 7 days for all other clubs to find out before he could negotiate. The world does not work this way people. If I want a player and I know something you don't, too bad for you. We are playing for $100K and Greg's rules allow participants to take numerous strategies into draft day but there is ZERO strategy applied to the free agent bidding process????????

I have played in ESPN leagues for fun over the last several years and they allow free agent pickups 24/7, its alot more fun and competitive.

751542 · Post by **751542** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 4:19 am

what greg may consider is a draft similiar to nffc, that was conducted on friday and there were no moves for the season.

i forgot what we called that league(in baseball mode now). i do like the idea of this style of draft with a midseason redraft and 40 or so plus initial draft. i would be interested. if the roto leagues are any example of the lack of depth after 30 rounds it would be quite a challenge!! hell, lets have this draft on thursday and think of 3 more different drafts and draft for the whole week!! i am in as long as greg picks up the hotel, ok just the coronas will due. have fun all. 6 months of entertainment is ahead. RT

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 4:39 am

Rick, we do a Draft Champions League in football where you draft 25 guys and the computer picks your optimal scoring lineup each week based on actual performance on the field. That is a lot of fun. There are no moves during the year, but obviously each team has a deep roster and the entire emphasis is placed on Draft Day.

I could talk with STATS to see if this is possible in baseball for 2006, but where do you fit it in over the weekend? I'm also running the Fantasy Sports Trade Conference on Wednesday-Thursday, so that makes it tough. But anything is possible, right?

Hmmmm, 40 rounds of a draft and the computer picks your optimal scoring output EACH DAY! Wow, that would be wild. I better think about it.

Top Dawg · Post by **Top Dawg** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 4:47 am

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

Rick, we do a Draft Champions League in football where you draft 25 guys and the computer picks your optimal scoring lineup each week based on actual performance on the field. That is a lot of fun. There are no moves during the year, but obviously each team has a deep roster and the entire emphasis is placed on Draft Day.

I could talk with STATS to see if this is possible in baseball for 2006, but where do you fit it in over the weekend? I'm also running the Fantasy Sports Trade Conference on Wednesday-Thursday, so that makes it tough. But anything is possible, right?

Hmmmm, 40 rounds of a draft and the computer picks your optimal scoring output EACH DAY! Wow, that would be wild. I better think about it. Greg - Not sure how that would work in Roto. In football it is easy. Points are points. But how does the computer select between a pitcher who earns a save, but allows 4 runs and a pitcher who pitches 3 scoreless innings of relief? Or a batter with 2 sb's versus one with 2 dingers?

Anyway, free agency is part of the fun. I start looking for free agents as soon as I log on Monday mornings. It adds the drama of managing the team and taking away that fun would change the game too much.

Just my opinion.

Pete

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 4:51 am

I don't know Pete, I just started thinking about the concept. Not sure it would work or if it would fly enough to spend on programming. But it sure sounded fun as my fingers were typing the idea down!

I'll go back to listening to the ideas and tweaking the current format. Oh, and managing my own eight teams I've got going now.

Captain Hook · Post by **Captain Hook** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 5:03 am

Goggles - the 24/7 is a nice idea for people who have no lives. Some of the rest of us have jobs, families and other obligations.

Greg - as I suggested before and the first poster did here, the draft and rosters are fine as they exist now, BUT the first free agent bidding should be next weekend, after the first week of play and everyone has a chance to catch up with all the roster moves and look over the free agent list.

Jackstraw · Post by **Jackstraw** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 5:49 am

One of the suggestions I posted under the Changes for 2006 topic was lengthening the event a couple of days. The idea of setting up a league like Artie and Greg are talking about sounds pretty cool, but we are going to need to add a few days. I personally felt like all of the events were crammed into 3 or 4 days (depending on what you played in). To me, this is a pretty exciting time of the year and I wouldn't mind spending a week doing everything. But then again, I have four weeks of vacation per year and some other people may not.

BTW, Perry, who ended up winning the poker tournament? I know it wasn't me and my dumb a$$ A 3 suited going all-in

triple a · Post by **triple a** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 7:27 am

i hear ya greg. to be honest though i do not think there is any strategy in picking up free agents at all. most of the guy in the leagues are all really good players and everyone knows when someone has won/lost a job or when a key prospect is called up from the minors and is in line to get some playing time. when 12 of 15 teams bid for a player and the highest bidder gets the player i dont think there is much strategy in that. The only strategy is to conserve your free agent money, or to NOT DROP the wrong guy on your reserve. drafting the players 2 weeks before the season starts is where strategy and knowledge come into play. just throwing things out there. NFBC is great how it is however. you do a great job greg. artie triple a

Cellar Dwellers · Post by **Cellar Dwellers** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 11:38 am

I agree Artie. I would love a 40 player roster, 23/17. I don't care how long the draft takes, it's the best day of the year.

CC's Desperados · Post by **CC's Desperados** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 11:52 am

Originally posted by Goggles Pisano:

[Do you think if Brian Cashman found out a player was available he would accept having to wait 7 days for all other clubs to find out before he could negotiate. The world does not work this way people. If I want a player and I know something you don't, too bad for you. We are playing for $100K and Greg's rules allow participants to take numerous strategies into draft day but there is ZERO strategy applied to the free agent bidding process????????

I have played in ESPN leagues for fun over the last several years and they allow free agent pickups 24/7, its alot more fun and competitive. [/QB]No, I'd think he would have to wait until a player cleared waivers or put a claim in for him. But any team that was below him in them standings could also put in a claim. The lowest team would be awarded the player. After that process, I believe the team that offered him the best deal would get him. I guess if someone spent the most FAAB money, It would be offering the best deal. Good Luck at in the ESPN leagues...I bet the most active players win most of the time.

Puffins · Post by **Puffins** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 12:16 pm

To me the reason for needing a longer draft is so that there will be room for some healthy players on your bench once injuries strike. One team in my league is starting off the season with 6 players on the DL. It won't be long before he faces the choice of either dropping someone like Kevin Brown or taking 0's from a lineup spot. Having larger rosters would help with these situations. We need to avoid situations where teams are forced to drop valuable players. In addition to the damage done to the team with the injuries, it gives an advantage in the overall standings to other teams in that league because they will have better talent released to the waiver wire. I'm glad we increased roster size to 30 this year, but we should increase further next year. Since there were complaints about the length of the draft already, I have another proposal. Leave the draft at 30 rounds, but let us expand our rosters with the first set of free agent moves by picking up a few players without dropping anyone.

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 12:41 pm

Originally posted by Puffins:

Since there were complaints about the length of the draft already, I have another proposal. Leave the draft at 30 rounds, but let us expand our rosters with the first set of free agent moves by picking up a few players without dropping anyone. We have done this in other leagues--and it works GREAT. Thanks for bringing this up, Puffins.

triple a · Post by **triple a** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 1:40 pm

king of queens.

i would rather draft the players. anyone can pick up free agents who are starting after the season begins. the whole point is to see who is the best national fantasy baseball champion isnt it? you must show it with your knowledge and drafting skills before the season starts. i believe the more players you draft in a league, the easier it is to tell who are the best fantasy players is all i am saying. doesnt take a genious to look at the boxscores and pickup the rest of the starting undrafted players. I dont understand any skill in that. we need to draft enough rounds so all the starters in the majors are taken in the drafts. we are almost there in this league, but say 3 more rounds would do this. In my other league we draft 500 players total 18 teams 28 rounds so this is about so. 10 reserves spots in the nfbc would accomplish this 3 MORE! Draft day is the greatest day of the year. set it aside and prepare to spend all day. nobody should complain of the amount of time it takes. i hate free agent pickups! we should earn it

triple a

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 1:59 pm

I actually like the idea you presented, Artie. If it were up to me, we would have 17-man reserve lists and--are you ready for this?--ZERO free agent pickups. However, I don't believe the masses are ready for this. I know Greg doesn't want it (at least not in the main event), and too many people like the weekly "work" of figuring out who to pick up. Also, the length of the draft is a real issue for people--not sure why, since as many people have pointed out, it's the best part of the season (other than winning!).

The roster expansion to 33 or 35 spots after draft day is sort of a "happy medium" for those who favor a more challenging event while allowing for a shorter draft and weekly free agent pickups. Remember that with bigger rosters, the free agent pickups become less important in subsequent weeks.

Also, going back to Greg's comments about you winning thanks to FAAB, getting Chone Figgins really did help you a lot. However, other than a few odd closers (not the Brad Lidges that some people picked up), I'm quite certain that it was your draft that helped you the most. Completely understand why you feel the way you do...

CC's Desperados · Post by **CC's Desperados** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 2:31 pm

Originally posted by King of Queens:

I actually like the idea you presented, Artie. If it were up to me, we would have 17-man reserve lists and--are you ready for this?--ZERO free agent pickups. However, I don't believe the masses are ready for this. I know Greg doesn't want it (at least not in the main event), and too many people like the weekly "work" of figuring out who to pick up. Also, the length of the draft is a real issue for people--not sure why, since as many people have pointed out, it's the best part of the season (other than winning!).

The roster expansion to 33 or 35 spots after draft day is sort of a "happy medium" for those who favor a more challenging event while allowing for a shorter draft and weekly free agent pickups. Remember that with bigger rosters, the free agent pickups become less important in subsequent weeks.

Also, going back to Greg's comments about you winning thanks to FAAB, getting Chone Figgins really did help you a lot. However, other than a few odd closers (not the Brad Lidges that some people picked up), I'm quite certain that it was your draft that helped you the most. Completely understand why you feel the way you do... Actually, It was Tomko who put him over the top along with Backe, if we would have matched starters with him(Tomko and Backe). I'm sure we would have won. We were a week late on Tomko and he went more than we could afford. Artie's draft put him in position to win, but his FAAB bids on starters put him over the top.

[ April 04, 2005, 08:32 PM: Message edited by: CC Desperados ]

nydownunder · Post by **nydownunder** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 2:37 am

Although I for one believe this idea would weigh in my favor versus the masses, I think the idea will only create a bigger disparity between the upper class (Fantasy Pros) and lower class (Novice/Beginners) of this fine institution. The FAAB does not discriminate: it creates and keeps the hope for a better tomorrow for most ordinary mangers out there. If those novices draft crap in the 30's, they are more than likely to be out of the competition ealier than they would have liked or expected. That in turn will only reduce the numbers of those that return the following year. Although the FAAB may not turn Novices into Pros, it will more importantly provide the PERCEPTION (or DILUSION) that it could.

With that said, the ULTIMATE COMPETITION is where this should and could be implemented.

[ April 05, 2005, 08:39 AM: Message edited by: nydownunder ]

SoxFan · Post by **SoxFan** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 3:51 am

See comments inserted (followup to post by Goggles Pisano)....

If you want a true competition where the [person who sits by his computer all day long and has no life] wins, than you should be able to pickup free agents 24 hours a day, 7 days a week for free. The current system penalizes people like myself who check baseball news 5 or 6 times a day [or more on the weekends!] and can gain a leg up by being [online more than anyone else, and] current on injuries and demotions to the minors. The system in place now is designed to give everyone a fair chance to pickup free agents by releasing everyone on the same day [what a concept...giving everyone a fair chance]. The current sytem is amateurist [not a word, but who cares] and it sucks when I hear a valuable piece of news that can help my club, but I have to wait up to 7 days [i.e., ONE WHOLE WEEK] to take advantage of it. By then, its no longer an advantage. [I mean, if Sheffield breaks his leg, then I want to be the first to get Bubba Crosby on my team!]

Do you think if Brian Cashman found out a player was available he would accept having to wait 7 days for all other clubs to find out before he could negotiate. [No way! He should be able to walk in with a bag of cash and sign up every 15-year-old Dominican future star, and replenish his farm system that way! Waiver rules, amateur draft rules, luxury taxes...they're all setup just to keep the Yankees from winning. Down with rules!] The world does not work this way people. If I want a player and I know something you don't, too bad for you. [Because I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and gosh darn it, people like me.] We are playing for $100K and Greg's rules allow participants to take numerous strategies into draft day but there is ZERO strategy applied to the free agent bidding process???????? [And by ZERO strategy, I don't mean the analytical process by which you try to analyze how much you should spend in FAAB on a given player and try to outwit the rest of your league, I mean the process by which I should get all the free agents that I see first!]

I have played in ESPN leagues for fun over the last several years and they allow free agent pickups 24/7, its alot more fun and competitive. [It's all total skill too, because whoever clicks on a player's name first, wins that player! You can't beat it!]

Jackstraw · Post by **Jackstraw** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 4:31 am

This thread has unveiled the true reason why we are all here... Who is the best fantasy baseball player in the game today? Soon it will expand to who is the greatest fantasy player period. The money is really secondary to the recognition.

That being said, the first thing that has to be done is to come up with the perfect game for selecting the best and the greatest fantasy player. To do that, what are you trying to measure? Who has the best scouting abilities? Who is able to manage their lineup throughout the season? Different skills call for different methods of playing. What do you guys think would be the best game? And, what do you think are the skills that should be tested?

Jackstraw · Post by **Jackstraw** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 4:38 am

So, after that post, I'm not sure where SoxFan stands, but I think I get the gist of it...

Brings to light the first criteria of the perfect game...

Do we have 24/7 free agent list action, with roster moves every day, or do we follow Artie's idea of no free agent moves at all? Or is it somewhere in between?

PittIsIt95 · Post by **PittIsIt95** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 5:00 am

Once again, people cease to amaze. Lets draft 50 rounds, that sounds like SO MUCH FUN!!

I would bet that most people on this board like to hear themselves talk :rolleyes:

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 6:22 am

50 rounds would be GREAT.

In the 48th round, pick 5, we select A.J. Zapp, 1B, Cincinnati Reds.