Making progress, we can run this wiith 12 guys but hopefully we'll get a couple more. MY COMMENTS ARE IN CAPS:
1- Player pool---1940 to 2011 AGREE
2-Scoring---standard 5X5 roto AGREE
3- Min, IP---1500 (must include at least 2 RP's with min 30 relief appearances in year AGREE
4- Blind rounds - 5,14,23 DO WE NEED 3 BLINDS?
5- Eligibility- -- 20 games at position AGREE
6- Stat source---Baseball Reference AGREE
1 team plays for free to handle spreadsheet
Entry Fee $125 PREFER $100
Winner takes all $1750. NO, PAY TOP 3, THIS IS A DEALBREAKER FOR ME
Likewhat17 has volunteered to do spreadsheet
Original ALL TIME DRAFT rules apply unless changed here
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A NEW all time draft with a couple of changes?
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TOXIC ASSETS
- Posts: 764
- Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 6:00 pm
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TOXIC ASSETS
- Posts: 764
- Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 6:00 pm
A NEW all time draft with a couple of changes?
One other thought. Instead of doing KDS, how about anyone who wants a particular draft spot can bid on it and increase the pool money. Example: Gekko wants draft pick # 1 really badly. So he agrees to throw in $120 instead of $100 to the pot. That way we'll get a few extra bucks in the pot.
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Texas Connection
- Posts: 151
- Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2009 6:00 pm
A NEW all time draft with a couple of changes?
10 people went 1-15
1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,15,14,13,12,9,10,11
1,2,3,4,5,6,15,14,7,8,9,10,11,12,13
5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,4,3,2,1,13,14,15
1,3,4,5,2,15,6,7,8,9,10,14,13,12,11
3,2,1,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15
These are the kds preferences from the 1st alltime draft. I think its pretty clear that 1 is more desirable than 15. Not one person would rather be 15th over 1st. If you did 3rd round reversal, it couldn't be any worse than 15-0. My argument would be the same regardless of what spot wins it. Some argue that it was won out of the 14th spot so it doesn't matter. My argument would be that it can be won out of any positition but a more level early playing field would be created with the 3rd round reversal. This is illustrated time and time again with kds preferences every year in baseball. It is incredibly skewed toward the top part of the draft. Would it be with 3rr? Maybe but not as much. Admittedly I am an auction guy. Everybody has the same chance at the same inventory. In Vegas, in the main last year, I was one of the few that didn't have a shot at Matt Kemp. I picked 14th and he went 13th. In almost every other league Kemp was there at 14. I think Lindy won it all from the 14th spot and some would argue that he would have been that much better had he gotten 3rd round reversal. Again I would say that others had the same opportunity to put down their kds preferences. Even though he won it from 14 my guess is 14 will not be his first choice next year. My goal is to somehow close the gap of 15-0 preferences to more like 12-3.
1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,15,14,13,12,9,10,11
1,2,3,4,5,6,15,14,7,8,9,10,11,12,13
5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,4,3,2,1,13,14,15
1,3,4,5,2,15,6,7,8,9,10,14,13,12,11
3,2,1,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15
These are the kds preferences from the 1st alltime draft. I think its pretty clear that 1 is more desirable than 15. Not one person would rather be 15th over 1st. If you did 3rd round reversal, it couldn't be any worse than 15-0. My argument would be the same regardless of what spot wins it. Some argue that it was won out of the 14th spot so it doesn't matter. My argument would be that it can be won out of any positition but a more level early playing field would be created with the 3rd round reversal. This is illustrated time and time again with kds preferences every year in baseball. It is incredibly skewed toward the top part of the draft. Would it be with 3rr? Maybe but not as much. Admittedly I am an auction guy. Everybody has the same chance at the same inventory. In Vegas, in the main last year, I was one of the few that didn't have a shot at Matt Kemp. I picked 14th and he went 13th. In almost every other league Kemp was there at 14. I think Lindy won it all from the 14th spot and some would argue that he would have been that much better had he gotten 3rd round reversal. Again I would say that others had the same opportunity to put down their kds preferences. Even though he won it from 14 my guess is 14 will not be his first choice next year. My goal is to somehow close the gap of 15-0 preferences to more like 12-3.
A NEW all time draft with a couple of changes?
Originally posted by Texas Connection:
10 people went 1-15
1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,15,14,13,12,9,10,11
1,2,3,4,5,6,15,14,7,8,9,10,11,12,13
5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,4,3,2,1,13,14,15
1,3,4,5,2,15,6,7,8,9,10,14,13,12,11
3,2,1,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15
These are the kds preferences from the 1st alltime draft. I think its pretty clear that 1 is more desirable than 15. Not one person would rather be 15th over 1st. If you did 3rd round reversal, it couldn't be any worse than 15-0. My argument would be the same regardless of what spot wins it. Some argue that it was won out of the 14th spot so it doesn't matter. My argument would be that it can be won out of any positition but a more level early playing field would be created with the 3rd round reversal. This is illustrated time and time again with kds preferences every year in baseball. It is incredibly skewed toward the top part of the draft. Would it be with 3rr? Maybe but not as much. Admittedly I am an auction guy. Everybody has the same chance at the same inventory. In Vegas, in the main last year, I was one of the few that didn't have a shot at Matt Kemp. I picked 14th and he went 13th. In almost every other league Kemp was there at 14. I think Lindy won it all from the 14th spot and some would argue that he would have been that much better had he gotten 3rd round reversal. Again I would say that others had the same opportunity to put down their kds preferences. Even though he won it from 14 my guess is 14 will not be his first choice next year. My goal is to somehow close the gap of 15-0 preferences to more like 12-3. I'm not sure why the preferences of the drafters would make a difference. If the results don't show an inherent advantage to picking towards the top then why would a change be necessary? Not to single out Shawn but he was most likely the best drafter of any of us and finished 9th from the 2 hole. In addition, he chose Ed Walsh who most drafters thought to be the #1 overall player, effectively giving the best player to the best drafter. With 3RR you are attempting to correct a problem that seems to not exist and may in fact make the draft more unbalanced then what the perception seems to be currently.
As I am at best a co-owner in this next draft I do not get a vote however, I think the opinions of those who drafted in the last ATD deserve some consideration. In any event it will be interesting to see how this draft is the same/different from the first one both in terms of format and strategy.
10 people went 1-15
1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,15,14,13,12,9,10,11
1,2,3,4,5,6,15,14,7,8,9,10,11,12,13
5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,4,3,2,1,13,14,15
1,3,4,5,2,15,6,7,8,9,10,14,13,12,11
3,2,1,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15
These are the kds preferences from the 1st alltime draft. I think its pretty clear that 1 is more desirable than 15. Not one person would rather be 15th over 1st. If you did 3rd round reversal, it couldn't be any worse than 15-0. My argument would be the same regardless of what spot wins it. Some argue that it was won out of the 14th spot so it doesn't matter. My argument would be that it can be won out of any positition but a more level early playing field would be created with the 3rd round reversal. This is illustrated time and time again with kds preferences every year in baseball. It is incredibly skewed toward the top part of the draft. Would it be with 3rr? Maybe but not as much. Admittedly I am an auction guy. Everybody has the same chance at the same inventory. In Vegas, in the main last year, I was one of the few that didn't have a shot at Matt Kemp. I picked 14th and he went 13th. In almost every other league Kemp was there at 14. I think Lindy won it all from the 14th spot and some would argue that he would have been that much better had he gotten 3rd round reversal. Again I would say that others had the same opportunity to put down their kds preferences. Even though he won it from 14 my guess is 14 will not be his first choice next year. My goal is to somehow close the gap of 15-0 preferences to more like 12-3. I'm not sure why the preferences of the drafters would make a difference. If the results don't show an inherent advantage to picking towards the top then why would a change be necessary? Not to single out Shawn but he was most likely the best drafter of any of us and finished 9th from the 2 hole. In addition, he chose Ed Walsh who most drafters thought to be the #1 overall player, effectively giving the best player to the best drafter. With 3RR you are attempting to correct a problem that seems to not exist and may in fact make the draft more unbalanced then what the perception seems to be currently.
As I am at best a co-owner in this next draft I do not get a vote however, I think the opinions of those who drafted in the last ATD deserve some consideration. In any event it will be interesting to see how this draft is the same/different from the first one both in terms of format and strategy.
"I’d rather impress the chicks with my technique than with my brute strength. Then, every now and then, just to show I can do that, too, I might flirt a little by hitting one out.” - Ichiro Suzuki
A NEW all time draft with a couple of changes?
shawn was given an advantage but didn't make the right picks to capitalize on it. he was not alone.
for those saying we don't need 3RR, please volunteer to pick 14 or 15
for those saying we don't need 3RR, please volunteer to pick 14 or 15
A NEW all time draft with a couple of changes?
Originally posted by Gekko:
shawn was given an advantage but didn't make the right picks to capitalize on it. he was not alone.
for those saying we don't need 3RR, please volunteer to pick 14 or 15 So you are saying that it is your picks and not your draft slot that will determine the winner? Agreed. Now that Mark has conceded this draft doesn't need 3RR everyone can move on.
shawn was given an advantage but didn't make the right picks to capitalize on it. he was not alone.
for those saying we don't need 3RR, please volunteer to pick 14 or 15 So you are saying that it is your picks and not your draft slot that will determine the winner? Agreed. Now that Mark has conceded this draft doesn't need 3RR everyone can move on.
"I’d rather impress the chicks with my technique than with my brute strength. Then, every now and then, just to show I can do that, too, I might flirt a little by hitting one out.” - Ichiro Suzuki
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Likewhat17
- Posts: 538
- Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 6:00 pm
- Contact:
A NEW all time draft with a couple of changes?
Cmon all you lurkers out there, only need 4 more to sign up and get this ball rolling!
A NEW all time draft with a couple of changes?
Originally posted by G@mblor:
So you are saying that it is your picks and not your draft slot that will determine the winner? Agreed. Now that Mark has conceded this draft doesn't need 3RR everyone can move on. i'm saying give shawn walsh again and he wins the league.
So you are saying that it is your picks and not your draft slot that will determine the winner? Agreed. Now that Mark has conceded this draft doesn't need 3RR everyone can move on. i'm saying give shawn walsh again and he wins the league.
A NEW all time draft with a couple of changes?
Originally posted by Gekko:
quote:Originally posted by G@mblor:
So you are saying that it is your picks and not your draft slot that will determine the winner? Agreed. Now that Mark has conceded this draft doesn't need 3RR everyone can move on. i'm saying give shawn walsh again and he wins the league. [/QUOTE]I would still take the field and I'd give you good odds. He's not the only one who would get a redo. Shawn's strategy didn't work for the same reason most of ours didn't. It's very difficult to adjust to what's happening in the draft because the blind rounds hide a lot of what's going on. If he focused more on ratios and saves down the stretch he probably wins. If Dave and I had focused a bit more on saves and wins and given up some era we had a great shot. I am sure plenty of others have similar stories. Maybe there is a small advantage to picking in the top 5 ( maybe not) but I see nothing as of yet to support a 3RR format.
quote:Originally posted by G@mblor:
So you are saying that it is your picks and not your draft slot that will determine the winner? Agreed. Now that Mark has conceded this draft doesn't need 3RR everyone can move on. i'm saying give shawn walsh again and he wins the league. [/QUOTE]I would still take the field and I'd give you good odds. He's not the only one who would get a redo. Shawn's strategy didn't work for the same reason most of ours didn't. It's very difficult to adjust to what's happening in the draft because the blind rounds hide a lot of what's going on. If he focused more on ratios and saves down the stretch he probably wins. If Dave and I had focused a bit more on saves and wins and given up some era we had a great shot. I am sure plenty of others have similar stories. Maybe there is a small advantage to picking in the top 5 ( maybe not) but I see nothing as of yet to support a 3RR format.
"I’d rather impress the chicks with my technique than with my brute strength. Then, every now and then, just to show I can do that, too, I might flirt a little by hitting one out.” - Ichiro Suzuki
A NEW all time draft with a couple of changes?
Originally posted by G@mblor:
I see nothing as of yet to support a 3RR format. can we try it for $100?
what's the worst that can happen, #14 wins it again?
I see nothing as of yet to support a 3RR format. can we try it for $100?
what's the worst that can happen, #14 wins it again?
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The Fool on the Hill
- Posts: 178
- Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2011 6:00 pm
A NEW all time draft with a couple of changes?
If there is "no benefit" to picking first, wouldn't that also support the thought that 3RR would not be detrimental to that guy picking first? If that's the case, why not do it? Personally, I agree with Gekko. I believe there was a huge advantage to picking early in the other draft. Just because a unique strategy (that included the immortal Ferdie Schupp) prevailed, doesn't negate that benefit. Whether a player pool without Walsh and company might offer the same boost to the first few picks is certainly open to debate--- but in a draft of 23 rounds, the same guy picking first round #1 would also get #1 in the last round, thus increasing that advantage. I think 3RR is an acceptable way of evening that out.
A NEW all time draft with a couple of changes?
Originally posted by Gekko:
quote:Originally posted by G@mblor:
I see nothing as of yet to support a 3RR format. can we try it for $100?
what's the worst that can happen, #14 wins it again? [/QUOTE]Yes. If it finishes 14,15,11,12,13 top 5 we have a problem.
quote:Originally posted by G@mblor:
I see nothing as of yet to support a 3RR format. can we try it for $100?
what's the worst that can happen, #14 wins it again? [/QUOTE]Yes. If it finishes 14,15,11,12,13 top 5 we have a problem.
"I’d rather impress the chicks with my technique than with my brute strength. Then, every now and then, just to show I can do that, too, I might flirt a little by hitting one out.” - Ichiro Suzuki
A NEW all time draft with a couple of changes?
If I draft alongside Dave again I will play but whichever format is chosen, objections aside.
"I’d rather impress the chicks with my technique than with my brute strength. Then, every now and then, just to show I can do that, too, I might flirt a little by hitting one out.” - Ichiro Suzuki
A NEW all time draft with a couple of changes?
Originally posted by G@mblor:
Yes. If it finishes 14,15,11,12,13 top 5 we have a problem. if 1, 2, and 3 finish in the top 5, we have a bigger problem. 3RR didn't even the field enough
Yes. If it finishes 14,15,11,12,13 top 5 we have a problem. if 1, 2, and 3 finish in the top 5, we have a bigger problem. 3RR didn't even the field enough
A NEW all time draft with a couple of changes?
okay, let me firm up the rules and suggestions from the first draft and then with this one and come up with a "Constitution" later tonight. that way we can get out of the quicksand we are in and get the draft moving.
A NEW all time draft with a couple of changes?
Originally posted by Gekko:
quote:Originally posted by G@mblor:
Yes. If it finishes 14,15,11,12,13 top 5 we have a problem. if 1, 2, and 3 finish in the top 5, we have a bigger problem. 3RR didn't even the field enough [/QUOTE]Well since you are petitioning to be pick #1 I don't forsee that problem... . First thing to do is get the league filled up. Then you're right we (or you guys in the event Dave decides he wants his own team) need to draft some rules
quote:Originally posted by G@mblor:
Yes. If it finishes 14,15,11,12,13 top 5 we have a problem. if 1, 2, and 3 finish in the top 5, we have a bigger problem. 3RR didn't even the field enough
[/QUOTE]Well since you are petitioning to be pick #1 I don't forsee that problem... . First thing to do is get the league filled up. Then you're right we (or you guys in the event Dave decides he wants his own team) need to draft some rules"I’d rather impress the chicks with my technique than with my brute strength. Then, every now and then, just to show I can do that, too, I might flirt a little by hitting one out.” - Ichiro Suzuki
A NEW all time draft with a couple of changes?
Originally posted by G@mblor:
Well since you are petitioning to be pick #1 I don't forsee that problem... . First thing to do is get the league filled up. Then you're right we (or you guys in the event Dave decides he wants his own team) need to draft some rules i think we need to decide on the rules and set a deadline to sign up, otherwise you will lose players (like me) that need to prep fro the nfbc. if we only get 12 teams, i think we should roll with it.
Well since you are petitioning to be pick #1 I don't forsee that problem... . First thing to do is get the league filled up. Then you're right we (or you guys in the event Dave decides he wants his own team) need to draft some rules i think we need to decide on the rules and set a deadline to sign up, otherwise you will lose players (like me) that need to prep fro the nfbc. if we only get 12 teams, i think we should roll with it.
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Suburban Strugglers
- Posts: 145
- Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2011 6:00 pm
A NEW all time draft with a couple of changes?
If people already deleted the 1940 stats then lets just start in the 1941 it make it easy.
A NEW all time draft with a couple of changes?
yes, 1941 sounds like a good starting point. i'll post everything by 9.30EST tonight. feel free to chime in.
A NEW all time draft with a couple of changes?
Originally posted by The Fool on the Hill:
If there is "no benefit" to picking first, wouldn't that also support the thought that 3RR would not be detrimental to that guy picking first? If that's the case, why not do it? Personally, I agree with Gekko. I believe there was a huge advantage to picking early in the other draft. Just because a unique strategy (that included the immortal Ferdie Schupp) prevailed, doesn't negate that benefit. Whether a player pool without Walsh and company might offer the same boost to the first few picks is certainly open to debate--- but in a draft of 23 rounds, the same guy picking first round #1 would also get #1 in the last round, thus increasing that advantage. I think 3RR is an acceptable
way of evening that out. It wasn't just first place, none of the final results indicated any advantage for the top 5 or 6 drafters. As to your other point, the reason I don't wouldn't want 3RR is precisely because I thought there was no decided advantage in the first draft. IMO it would tip the scales the opposite way and give an advantage to the drafters picking at the end. There needs to be a reason if a change is to be made. The first draft did not give us any data to support a switch as far as I'm concerned.
If there is "no benefit" to picking first, wouldn't that also support the thought that 3RR would not be detrimental to that guy picking first? If that's the case, why not do it? Personally, I agree with Gekko. I believe there was a huge advantage to picking early in the other draft. Just because a unique strategy (that included the immortal Ferdie Schupp) prevailed, doesn't negate that benefit. Whether a player pool without Walsh and company might offer the same boost to the first few picks is certainly open to debate--- but in a draft of 23 rounds, the same guy picking first round #1 would also get #1 in the last round, thus increasing that advantage. I think 3RR is an acceptable
way of evening that out. It wasn't just first place, none of the final results indicated any advantage for the top 5 or 6 drafters. As to your other point, the reason I don't wouldn't want 3RR is precisely because I thought there was no decided advantage in the first draft. IMO it would tip the scales the opposite way and give an advantage to the drafters picking at the end. There needs to be a reason if a change is to be made. The first draft did not give us any data to support a switch as far as I'm concerned.
"I’d rather impress the chicks with my technique than with my brute strength. Then, every now and then, just to show I can do that, too, I might flirt a little by hitting one out.” - Ichiro Suzuki
A NEW all time draft with a couple of changes?
Originally posted by G@mblor:
IMO it would tip the scales the opposite way and give an advantage to the drafters picking at the end. with KDS & 3RR, you should be loving it then. go 15-14-13-12-11-10, etc...
none of this is an exact science. we aren't putting up thousands of dollars here. let's see how it goes with 3RR. i think the draft results from the first draft were skewed because no one ever played in a format like this. crazy **** was bound to happen and it did.
IMO it would tip the scales the opposite way and give an advantage to the drafters picking at the end. with KDS & 3RR, you should be loving it then. go 15-14-13-12-11-10, etc...
none of this is an exact science. we aren't putting up thousands of dollars here. let's see how it goes with 3RR. i think the draft results from the first draft were skewed because no one ever played in a format like this. crazy **** was bound to happen and it did.
A NEW all time draft with a couple of changes?
Originally posted by Gekko:
quote:Originally posted by G@mblor:
IMO it would tip the scales the opposite way and give an advantage to the drafters picking at the end. with KDS & 3RR, you should be loving it then. go 15-14-13-12-11-10, etc...
none of this is an exact science. we aren't putting up thousands of dollars here. let's see how it goes with 3RR. i think the draft results from the first draft were skewed because no one ever played in a format like this. crazy **** was bound to happen and it did. [/QUOTE]I am pretty unlikely to change my mind about the 3RR. If there is an advantage to the top few picks it's such a small factor in determining the winner that I don't think it's a big deal. You're right that if it's decided we are doing 3RR I would definitely want the 15 pick. I'm not sure you can say the first draft was skewed any more than I could have if it ended up looking like the first picks had an advantage. The sample size on something like this is always going to be too small to know for sure. My worry is that the drafters at the end will get an unfair advantage, even if one of those drafters is me. We can roll the dice with doing it your way if you like. My bold prediction is that the final standings will probably still look random since there are bigger factors than draft slot, even if it's tilted one way or another.
quote:Originally posted by G@mblor:
IMO it would tip the scales the opposite way and give an advantage to the drafters picking at the end. with KDS & 3RR, you should be loving it then. go 15-14-13-12-11-10, etc...
none of this is an exact science. we aren't putting up thousands of dollars here. let's see how it goes with 3RR. i think the draft results from the first draft were skewed because no one ever played in a format like this. crazy **** was bound to happen and it did. [/QUOTE]I am pretty unlikely to change my mind about the 3RR. If there is an advantage to the top few picks it's such a small factor in determining the winner that I don't think it's a big deal. You're right that if it's decided we are doing 3RR I would definitely want the 15 pick. I'm not sure you can say the first draft was skewed any more than I could have if it ended up looking like the first picks had an advantage. The sample size on something like this is always going to be too small to know for sure. My worry is that the drafters at the end will get an unfair advantage, even if one of those drafters is me. We can roll the dice with doing it your way if you like. My bold prediction is that the final standings will probably still look random since there are bigger factors than draft slot, even if it's tilted one way or another.
"I’d rather impress the chicks with my technique than with my brute strength. Then, every now and then, just to show I can do that, too, I might flirt a little by hitting one out.” - Ichiro Suzuki
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Suburban Strugglers
- Posts: 145
- Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2011 6:00 pm
A NEW all time draft with a couple of changes?
My honest opinion is that there is not a need for 3RR however with that said I have no problem doing the contest with 3RR as I think that whether we have it or do not have it, it will not decide the draft.
I still think the winners will be from random and spread out draft slots, based on who has the best strategy for this draft and who is able to use that strategy or adjust that strategy for this draft and get their players.
So do we need 3RR I do not think so but does it hurt to have it I do not think so either. So I guess why not try it. Although as I said before I am good either way.
I still think the winners will be from random and spread out draft slots, based on who has the best strategy for this draft and who is able to use that strategy or adjust that strategy for this draft and get their players.
So do we need 3RR I do not think so but does it hurt to have it I do not think so either. So I guess why not try it. Although as I said before I am good either way.