World Cup

[DOUGHBOYS]

Today, I watched the hot dog eating contest.
The broadcaster said he was not given to hyperbole, but Joey Chestnut winning the contest was the greatest achievement ever by mankind.
I hope it was tongue in cheek, but you never know.
We all have different interests. We all have different ways of grading events in our own minds.
And we wonder why others do not share our own feelings.
I thought about this thread while watching. And I thought to myself that in this 'hurry up and give it to me now' texty society, that more Americans would rather watch 10 minutes of hot dog eating more than three and a half hours of ball kicking or even three hours of bat swinging.

Years ago, we would have scoffed at any person being a 'professional eater'.
It is clearly a advertisement for Nathans that has exceeded their wildest dreams.
But, it does make me worry.
If we will watch the grossness of 'competitors' stuffing 60 watered down hot dogs into their mouths, will it be long before Charmin sponsors a pooping contest to follow it?

[mattjb]

Honestly you sound ridiculous. You'll be pleased to know I often have to defend American sports to my British friends so this level of stupidity level is not an American disease.

I would have thought a baseball crowd would have a better grasp on things. This thread is basically the equivalent of a soccer fan coming on here after a no hitter and concluding that baseball is an awful spectacle as no-one could even get a hit. Let's make the bill bigger and the bats wider and maybe take away a couple of fielders.

Matt,

I am responding to you because you seem the like resident soccer expert and clearly a passionate fan. I also think (from reading other posts of yours) that you are intelligent and well intentioned. What troubles me is when someone makes a point about something here (in this case soccer) and the response is to insult them or call it stupidity.

I am hoping to have a rational discussion with you on this topic. I want to do this because I am a lover of all sports. Including some more obscure ones that do not garner the respect they deserve because people are ignorant to their nuances. I tried to have a discussion with my brother while watching the Brazil game that ended in penalty kicks to no avail because he, like others I have tried to talk to, avoided my actual questions. My brother has been to Premier league games and is a passionate sports fan. However he is a fan of wild passionate energy and the spectacle of soccer. I explained to him that I recognize how and why that kind of energy can be infectious and the vibe in the stadium exciting and the occasional or eventual outburst when a goal is scores or just missed can be wild.

None of these things address the legit problems I raised about what is actually happening on the field. Your example of a no hitter is at least an effort to address the issues I mentioned. Now I could argue no hitters almost never happen, where as low or no scoring games in soccer constantly happen. I could argue that during a no hitter there are many things that are happening constantly from an athletic standpoint and strategy stand point (how to attack each hitter as they come up). In soccer, I see very little strategy. I just see a lot of very fit guys with high running stamina who can handle a ball with their feet well waiting around for a moment where the ball may make its way toward them and then they try to advance it toward goal in hopes a clear shot can happen. Of course the clear shot almost never happens because there are so many defenders clogging everything up that, as was stated before, we seldom get to see Rooney with a great bicycle kick goal more than once in his entire career.

Let me start with one basic question Mattjb, why have the offsides rule? Why not allow a fast break in soccer? Why not allow a team to play ultra aggressive and send their best scorers down field to possibly accept a long (exciting) pass and have a legit shot on goal? What am I missing?

Sure - You're missing the essence of the offside rule.

There are fast breaks in soccer all the time (less so in international soccer which is played at a slower pace than the Premiership for example)

The skill is not only in the pass but in the timing of the run. There is nothing better than seeing a deep run made and a perfect pass behind a defense to set a player through on goal. No offisde would make the game a series of long balls smashed downfield - you would lose a lot of the skill some here seem to think is already in short supply.

Now there have been suggestions in the past to add an additional offside line approximately half way between the edge of the penalty area and the half way line (rather than the half way line which is the current rule). I'm not totally opposed to that as it would allow more space in midfield which can become very crowded.

I hope Ann Coulter was watching David Luiz's free kick goal today...

[Edwards Kings]

I think I understand why you have a difficult time holding down a job.

Looks like I lit the fuse on your tampon, dingus. I don't know what your problem is, but I'll bet it's hard to pronounce.

Have a nice life.

[Yellow Ledbetters]

I have a feeling you are morbidly overweight and pay men to have sex with your wife. Not sure what gives me that impression...just the way you come across.

People like you are why I could never be pro-life.

We that being said I have better things to do than bicker with the uneducated so you are dismissed.

[Walla Walla]

This should be moved to the non-baseball chat link. Once again soccer had it's four year moment. Time to go back to ESPN 3 and English Pubs if you need to talk about it.

[Edwards Kings]

I would like to apologize to the my friends on the board. The sort of pissing match I allowed myself to engage in has no place on this board, especially with someone who is so low class as to not just insult me, but my wife.

I will not respond to any thing else from this clown.

Sorry again for bringing the board down to his level.

[Outlaw]

I would like to apologize to the my friends on the board. The sort of pissing match I allowed myself to engage in has no place on this board, especially with someone who is so low class as to not just insult me, but my wife.

I will not respond to any thing else from this clown.

Sorry again for bringing the board down to his level.

No worries Wayne, His last post was disgusting... I'm surprised it hasn't been deleted yet, because it should be. Calling him a clown is being nice...

[Driver Love]

Sure - You're missing the essence of the offside rule.

There are fast breaks in soccer all the time (less so in international soccer which is played at a slower pace than the Premiership for example)

The skill is not only in the pass but in the timing of the run. There is nothing better than seeing a deep run made and a perfect pass behind a defense to set a player through on goal. No offisde would make the game a series of long balls smashed downfield - you would lose a lot of the skill some here seem to think is already in short supply.

Now there have been suggestions in the past to add an additional offside line approximately half way between the edge of the penalty area and the half way line (rather than the half way line which is the current rule). I'm not totally opposed to that as it would allow more space in midfield which can become very crowded.

I hope Ann Coulter was watching David Luiz's free kick goal today...

Matt,

Thank you for the reply. Again, you display a clear interest in and knowledge of soccer. I see your point and understand this is one of those "unique nuances" of a sport that those who are passionate about it get and those who are not don't get. Now the offsides rule/question was one I had. I have another one that I find more interesting.

My bigger problem with soccer is how clogged up the areas are anywhere near the goal. This obviously stifles scoring to where games (at this level) often end in a 0-0 tie. What if there was a line (like the blue line in hockey) where only so many players were permitted to cross at any time. Meaning there could only be so many defensive players in this area at any given time. Imagine soccer with crisper passing. Some set plays that were strategically planned and practiced (like the one the USA had on that late free kick vs Belgium that didn't result in a score, but was cool to see.

Soccer fans can mock people who question the scoring all they want. When the ultimate thing you can do in a soccer game is score and it happens on an average of 1.4 times per game the sport starts to fade in the eyes of people who have massive options in terms of their sports viewership. When the collective groan of a missed shot or the coach on the sideline throwing his hands up in agony over a missed opportunity is actually a part of soccer coverage it (to me) is a clear sign that the play making is so stifled on the field that TV producers have to find other things to cover. The same goes with the graphic showing how many kilometers a player covered in the game. This is another example of them trying to justify the athleticism of the sport (unnecessary in my opinion as they are obviously supreme athletes) that is often hard to see.

A couple other questions.

-Faking injuries is clearly a part of the fabric of the sport. Do you have a problem with that? I do and in the age of DVR's and HD tv where you can rewind and watch the guy who is laying in the grass grabbing his calf like he just got bitten by a cobra and rewind to see that his other calf was lightly brushed as he threw himself to the turf it makes the sport look bad.

-Flopping to draw penalties is a huge part of soccer. Now this goes on in other sports too though not nearly to the same extent. To me, this is a massive problem with soccer when scoring is so low and one play or call can easily dictate the outcome of the game given the fact there are so few scoring opportunities. I cannot imaging the ugliness of a world cup game decided on a guy who on reply obviously faked an injury or took a dive.


My overall point is this. If through a couple rule changes (that could open up play and scoring chances) games ended in an average score of 4-3 as opposed to .7-0 this sport could be dramatically more appealing. Imagine soccer where you don't feel like the game is all but over when it is 2-0?

I hope you appreciate the respectful manner in which I am discussing this with you. I appreciate and welcome our opinions given your obvious knowledge of the topic.

[Walla Walla]

Soccer is on the level of volleyball, horseshoes, bowling and darts. Granted soccer players run a lot. But aside that what's there to watch except the flops? I watched a player rubbing his mouth so hard trying to find a drop of blood that he could have created it. He didn't though. No yellow card. American football you get your knee ripped to shreds and maybe you get a timeout to be carted off the field. Other wise your trying to get off on somebody's shoulder. No yellow card. In the good USA it's called sucking it up!

[mattjb]

Sure - You're missing the essence of the offside rule.

There are fast breaks in soccer all the time (less so in international soccer which is played at a slower pace than the Premiership for example)

The skill is not only in the pass but in the timing of the run. There is nothing better than seeing a deep run made and a perfect pass behind a defense to set a player through on goal. No offisde would make the game a series of long balls smashed downfield - you would lose a lot of the skill some here seem to think is already in short supply.

Now there have been suggestions in the past to add an additional offside line approximately half way between the edge of the penalty area and the half way line (rather than the half way line which is the current rule). I'm not totally opposed to that as it would allow more space in midfield which can become very crowded.

I hope Ann Coulter was watching David Luiz's free kick goal today...

Matt,

Thank you for the reply. Again, you display a clear interest in and knowledge of soccer. I see your point and understand this is one of those "unique nuances" of a sport that those who are passionate about it get and those who are not don't get. Now the offsides rule/question was one I had. I have another one that I find more interesting.

My bigger problem with soccer is how clogged up the areas are anywhere near the goal. This obviously stifles scoring to where games (at this level) often end in a 0-0 tie. What if there was a line (like the blue line in hockey) where only so many players were permitted to cross at any time. Meaning there could only be so many defensive players in this area at any given time. Imagine soccer with crisper passing. Some set plays that were strategically planned and practiced (like the one the USA had on that late free kick vs Belgium that didn't result in a score, but was cool to see.

Soccer fans can mock people who question the scoring all they want. When the ultimate thing you can do in a soccer game is score and it happens on an average of 1.4 times per game the sport starts to fade in the eyes of people who have massive options in terms of their sports viewership. When the collective groan of a missed shot or the coach on the sideline throwing his hands up in agony over a missed opportunity is actually a part of soccer coverage it (to me) is a clear sign that the play making is so stifled on the field that TV producers have to find other things to cover. The same goes with the graphic showing how many kilometers a player covered in the game. This is another example of them trying to justify the athleticism of the sport (unnecessary in my opinion as they are obviously supreme athletes) that is often hard to see.

A couple other questions.

-Faking injuries is clearly a part of the fabric of the sport. Do you have a problem with that? I do and in the age of DVR's and HD tv where you can rewind and watch the guy who is laying in the grass grabbing his calf like he just got bitten by a cobra and rewind to see that his other calf was lightly brushed as he threw himself to the turf it makes the sport look bad.

-Flopping to draw penalties is a huge part of soccer. Now this goes on in other sports too though not nearly to the same extent. To me, this is a massive problem with soccer when scoring is so low and one play or call can easily dictate the outcome of the game given the fact there are so few scoring opportunities. I cannot imaging the ugliness of a world cup game decided on a guy who on reply obviously faked an injury or took a dive.


My overall point is this. If through a couple rule changes (that could open up play and scoring chances) games ended in an average score of 4-3 as opposed to .7-0 this sport could be dramatically more appealing. Imagine soccer where you don't feel like the game is all but over when it is 2-0?

I hope you appreciate the respectful manner in which I am discussing this with you. I appreciate and welcome our opinions given your obvious knowledge of the topic.

OK...

The clogged up areas of the pitch...This can be a problem and as I said in my ealier post I wouldn't be against adding an extra line between the penalty area and the halfway line for the offside rule and that would stretch play more. I don' think I'd be a fan of limiting players in a certain area of the pitch. For starters if you did that you would lose some of thew counter attacking nature of the game...when teams are chasing a game and throwing players forward they leave themselves open at the back and we get the fast breaks you discussed.

On to scoring...the average goals per game is between 2.5 and 3 so your 1.4 stat must be per team. Honestly one of the things I love is that excitement is not contrived in soccer - when you get a 4-3 game it's something truly special. We love high scoring games but I think we love them because they are rare. I don't really want to watch a 0-0 but they are fairly rare in league soccer. One of the problems with the world cup is that the stakes are so high when you hit the knock out stages teams are afraid to lose and you have seen that in the later stages of this world cup which is a shame.

As for the graphics - my background is TV graphics and production and I was around for the introduction of these stats in soccer. Pass completion for a player is far more important than how far he has run and I would not have it on soccer. In fact the best teams let the ball do the work and let the opposition tire themselves out chasing it.

I hate what we call 'diving' in soccer. It was never done in the English game and was always seen as a 'foreign' problem. Unfortunately that is no longer the case and it is a problem everywhere. They have tried to address by booking players for diving but it isn't enough. Replay would be very hard in soccer because of how fast the game moves but one place it would absolutely be introduced is to review penalty decisions that were given and I would favor that rule change immediately.

Again it's important to point out that the average goals is between 2.5 and 3. I honestly think that is fine.

I would also point out that 3 goals in 90 in 90 minutes isn't a whole lot different than 8 runs (the average in baseball I believe) in 180.

[CALI CARTEL]

Germany soccer games are higher scoring than Padre games.