The Times Are Changing For Season Long Games

[Greg Ambrosius]

It is far too late now. The full season companies did nothing, despite many of us urging them to do something. They sat back and listened to the FSTA, while the FSTA completely screwed them behind the scenes. It is mind boggling how many of these full season companies are still members of that shitty organization, the NFBC included. Now it is way too late. I am determined to try to do something, but one man cannot win this war. I won't even be able to win this battle in Nebraska. But I damn well will get the word out here, and I damn well will hold the Senators here accountable if they don't do this correctly.

Chad, if you think the season-long companies had any chance to change this narrative when the DFS companies were spending $1 million a week in lobbying then keep thinking that. But this was a steamroller to get that first state to legalize it and license it. Draft Kings and FanDuel were behind it and the FSTA didn't and couldn't have changed it. You are correct that the FSTA didn't stop this first state from benefiting the two biggest DFS companies in Virginia, but again they just wanted to be legal in each state and the big licensing fees actually help them by keeping competition out. It's crazy how this is working out for some but not for all and the states don't even realize it.

Plenty of blame to go around, but there isn't a single season-long game operator who wanted this or could have prevented it. We felt UIEGA already told us how to run legal season-long fantasy games. Now here we are.

[Greg Ambrosius]

Will this affect NFBC in 2017?

No. We are applying for licenses in most of these states and hope to pay what they are asking for in 2017. Right now we've exempted Virginia along with the 5 other exempt states we've had. We feel like we will have a license in the other affected states. That being said, who knows what the future holds as states like California, Texas and Florida haven't finalized their bills yet. It's very possible that we'll have to exempt even more states depending on their final DFS laws.

I'm not being pessimistic about our future. This is just the white elephant in the room and it's going to affect all of our competitors as well. Even more so as single game operators. Everyone should be aware of what is happening. I'm hopeful that between our guys and their lobbyists that we can change some minds and get some type of carveout language for small business owners from these affected states. If that happens then we deal with the added expense and make it work together.

[Cocktails and Dreams]

It is far too late now. The full season companies did nothing, despite many of us urging them to do something. They sat back and listened to the FSTA, while the FSTA completely screwed them behind the scenes. It is mind boggling how many of these full season companies are still members of that shitty organization, the NFBC included. Now it is way too late. I am determined to try to do something, but one man cannot win this war. I won't even be able to win this battle in Nebraska. But I damn well will get the word out here, and I damn well will hold the Senators here accountable if they don't do this correctly.

Chad, if you think the season-long companies had any chance to change this narrative when the DFS companies were spending $1 million a week in lobbying then keep thinking that. But this was a steamroller to get that first state to legalize it and license it. Draft Kings and FanDuel were behind it and the FSTA didn't and couldn't have changed it. You are correct that the FSTA didn't stop this first state from benefiting the two biggest DFS companies in Virginia, but again they just wanted to be legal in each state and the big licensing fees actually help them by keeping competition out. It's crazy how this is working out for some but not for all and the states don't even realize it.

Plenty of blame to go around, but there isn't a single season-long game operator who wanted this or could have prevented it. We felt UIEGA already told us how to run legal season-long fantasy games. Now here we are.

The FSTA, that you were on the board of, sat by while the big guys that were also part of the FSTA did this. They fleeced you(season long owners) into thinking this was good for the whole industry. And you(season long owners) attempted to do absolutely nothing. I sure as hell don't think anyone can change something if they don't try.

It would be easy for me to say F$ck it. This Nebraska Bill is the same as the rest. Nothing I can do about it because the fan duel and draft kings guys are here and already helped write the bill. Well you know what. That is not what I decided to do. I am trying to do something about it. I looked the fan duel and DK guys in the eyes before the hearing after Steve introduced me and told them exactly what I was going to try to do. And I continue to try to do it. Will it work? I don't know. Probably not. But if everyone had the idea that you just described when saying "If you think something can be done about it, you can keep thinking that" Screw that loser mentality. I am not scared of big bad fan duel. I am going to get the word to the Senator one way or another. And if he chooses to follow the same path, then he will not look good when I am done getting the word out.

There is more momentum now against me. There are others states creating precedent against me. There are still tons being spent on lobbyists arguing against me. What they haven't run into yet, is someone like me. Someone that doesn't have give up in their DNA. Will see what happens, but I am not going to be scared of people spending money to argue the another side.

I am not against DK and FD, other than the actions that caused the need for this regulation. It isn't their fault they run the FSTA. And it isn't their fault that they fleeced full season companies so they would survive. For the life of me I will never understand how the FSTA, that is supposed to be good for an industry, sat back and let companies get wiped off the map by this. The next good thing they do for the industry will be the first. Less time worrying about the awards circle jerk among each other and more time doing something about the industry would have been nice. What is even more concerning is that your new company had three board members on the FSTA you mentioned. Hopefully, you all do a better job managing SportsHub than the FSTA.

[rickerbockerNFBC]

Greg,

Just a question from an ignoramus, but why couldn't you just join with DK/FD as a division. They would get some sort of profit (couldn't quantify it obviously without knowing the numbers), but it would be profit for doing nothing. The thought process is they'll already had paid the states' fees so what additional cost would it be for them?

I'm sure there's more to it, but figured it would be worth asking the question.

Rick

[Greg Ambrosius]

Thanks for all you're doing in Nebraska Chad. Hopefully it works out.

I'll provide the link shortly but today in Texas a bill was introduced with no fees and no percentage of revenue. Not only that but even DFS was labeled as a game of skill. It's the model bill for the industry. It hasn't passed yet but keep an eye on Texas. If that passes it could be a game changer.

[traebb]

Will be reaching out to my representative, I encourage all here to do the same. From Texas.

[Greg Ambrosius]

Will be reaching out to my representative, I encourage all here to do the same. From Texas.

Here you go:

http://www.legalsportsreport.com/12916/ ... ign=buffer

[Doctor Who]

Good ole Texas. Why I love living here. They know how to keep small businesses growing and keep the government out of my pockets most of the time. I hope Texas can once again make a game changing step that money grabbing states look at.

[Bjs2025]

So I contacted Senator Jay Costa in PA who is claiming here the legislation he introduced will not affect our game but specifically talks about the state fees of $2.5 million. Greg, any insight? Here is his email to me:

"Thank you for contacting me to relate your thoughts about legislation that would regulate fantasy sports in Pennsylvania, and your position that any such regulation should differentiate between season-long and daily games. I appreciate your interest in this matter and I understand your position.


As you are likely aware, I have proposed legislation on this issue that addresses video-based gaming and daily fantasy sports. While that bill has not yet been introduced, I look forward to introducing it soon. The bill that I have proposed imposes a fee of $2.5 million for daily fantasy sports sites but does not impose such a fee on other fantasy sites. The bill would also make changes to the games that can be offered at Pennsylvania’s casinos and the ways in which they are taxed and regulated. I believe that this is sound legislation that will protect Pennsylvanians while ensuring that these games are available for the enjoyment of those who play them. "

[Greg Ambrosius]

So I contacted Senator Jay Costa in PA who is claiming here the legislation he introduced will not affect our game but specifically talks about the state fees of $2.5 million. Greg, any insight? Here is his email to me:

"Thank you for contacting me to relate your thoughts about legislation that would regulate fantasy sports in Pennsylvania, and your position that any such regulation should differentiate between season-long and daily games. I appreciate your interest in this matter and I understand your position.


As you are likely aware, I have proposed legislation on this issue that addresses video-based gaming and daily fantasy sports. While that bill has not yet been introduced, I look forward to introducing it soon. The bill that I have proposed imposes a fee of $2.5 million for daily fantasy sports sites but does not impose such a fee on other fantasy sites. The bill would also make changes to the games that can be offered at Pennsylvania’s casinos and the ways in which they are taxed and regulated. I believe that this is sound legislation that will protect Pennsylvanians while ensuring that these games are available for the enjoyment of those who play them. "

Thanks for the update. Good to hear that it wouldn't affect season-long games, but I'll believe it when I see it.

As for his $2.5 million fee, I can't see any DFS company paying that. It would be better to exempt a state from participating in their games than to pay that fee. We'll see what the combined Fanduel/Draft Kings company does, but if they pay $2.5 million there you can bet that California, Texas, Florida and New York will be asking for more.

[Cocktails and Dreams]

From what I have been told, that is not how Pennsylvania will work. That is what i am trying to get to happen in Nebraska, but it is not going to be easy. They need to exempt the full season companies from the regulatory fees. Make them fine based and let the daily companies regulatory fees pay for all companies, since they caused the need for it. Back up plan is just to have the whole thing stall out in Nebraska since fantasy sports are already legal here.

Omaha World Herald came Friday for a couple hours. Wasn't thrilled with the way it went. Hopefully, he was here long enough to get understanding of the issues.

Here are my talking points from the hearing. Didn't have time for most of it, so sent this on to all the Senators on the General Affairs Committee. Not impressed by many of the Senators in Nebraska so far. Not even a little bit. This might give some folks some ideas of what to use in fighting the battles in their states.

Chad Schroeder Hearing Talking points on LB 469 Sending electronically since paper copies were frowned upon.

Good afternoon. I am Chad Schroeder from Omaha and I am testifying on behalf of Traditional Full Season Fantasy Football players both all over Nebraska and all over the United States.

I felt it was important to be here today due to my vast experience with both types of Fantasy Sports, Daily and Traditional Full Season, which are vastly different.

-I have played more traditional fantasy football and baseball leagues than anyone, am the most profitable traditional fantasy football player anywhere and also the most profitable full season baseball player anywhere, and am the top ranked full season fantasy football player in the world. I have won 14 full season large field championships which include World Championship of Fantasy Baseball(200k), National Fantasy Baseball Championship Online Championship (100k), National Fantasy Baseball Championship Primetime(80k) Fantasy Football Players Championship(75k), National Fantasy Football Championship Primetime(50k), Fantasy Sportsnet Baseball (50k) CDM baseball (15k), RTFFC(10k) Sportsbuff golf(10k), Sportsbuff baseball(10k) CDM golf (10k) CDM Nascar two time winner (10k each) SportsclubUSA baseball(10k)

-I also have a lot of experience with Daily Fantasy Sports, albeit not near as extensively as Full Season. I do have great understanding of all the issues at play on this front as well.

- My results over the last 11 years show that Full Season Fantasy Sports are a game of skill. When there are hundreds or even thousands of decisions to be made over the course of a season, skill of the Fantasy Player comes to the forefront.



I am testifying neutral because I am pro legal, but don’t believe the bill here is done correctly. It is crafted with Draft Kings and Fan Duel imprints all over it, in ways that are favorable to them, but hinder the industry drastically.



It is very important to explain the differences between Traditional Full Season Fantasy Sports and Daily Fantasy Sports. They are so different that they should not even be included in the same legislation.

1. Full Season fantasy sports have been around for decades and were deemed to be legal nationally in 2006 under the UIGEA laws. Daily has popped up in the last 5 years or so.

2. Full Season can only be played at one time during the season. You draft with 11 others before the season begins in September. This is usually among friends, family, co-workers etc. There are also companies that run public fantasy football leagues both live and online. The 12 players take turns drafting real players to form their team. Then fantasy players work to improve their team throughout the season via Free Agency, trades and also set a starting lineup each week, choosing among the players on their roster. In daily fantasy sports you simply pick your team, and that is it. The game is quickly over that night and that is it. They are not remotely the same thing and the laws should not be the same for both.

3. In my opinion, there is no question both are a game of skill. However, there is no question Full Season is a far more skilful game.. Daily has one decision to be made. Picking your lineup for the day. Full season has a series of hundreds or even thousands of decisions throughout the course of your team’s season. The more decisions, the more skill involved.

4. There is positive interaction and camaraderie in full season leagues. There is banter during the draft and throughout the year. Positive friendships are made time and time again. Daily has none of this. There is no draft, no chat room, no discussion whatsoever, and the league is over the same day.


Legality issues.

1. There should be no question about the legality of Traditional Full Season Leagues. They were established as being legal nationally in 2006. My record shows Full Season Fantasy sports are certainly not a game of chance. All fantasy players get 1099’s and pay taxes on their earnings from full season companies. Traditional Full Season Fantasy Sports are a very healthy activity for people to play. It is a challenging game that allows players to compete while giving them an avenue to enjoy the NFL or MLB games that much more. By watching the players on their fantasy teams perform for entertainment, it actually prevents gambling. Fantasy participants can watch their players play to have interest in the game, rather than making illegal wagers on the game that many otherwise would. There is no compulsive behavior in traditional leagues. You cannot play again for an entire year even if you wanted to. There is no immediate gratification in these leagues. If you win, you did a great job over the course of the entire season. Full Season fantasy sports are very healthy competitions that cannot and do not get anyone in financial trouble.

2. I believe both are games of skill and should be legal. My confidence threshold is infinitely stronger in regards to the traditional games though, as the national laws have even declared them to be legal.



What is wrong with the bill that causes me to testify neutral?

1. I already discussed the vast differences between the two types of games. Daily fantasy sports came under great scrutiny over several issues, most of which are being addressed in the regulations. They are the reason we are here today. They knew they were in some trouble in regards to legality due to these things. The solution was to reach out to state Senators to write laws that regulate things, and create regulatory fees that they can easily afford. They mislead the Senators on many things as they help write the bills. They make sure they are viewed together with season long leagues, as they know that is their best way of surviving. These regulatory fees are something only Daily Companies can afford so it wipes out all of the competition, giving them a monopoly. Full season companies are faced with these fees and they cannot afford them. Full Season Companies only take in revenue one time a year, not every day, like the daily companies. Yet, they are asked to pay these fees and face the regulations that are designed for daily companies. This will put almost all Full Season Companies out of business. This is completely wrong and really makes me sick. Full Season companies did nothing to cause the problem, and are going to go out of business as a result of it, while those creating the problem get monopolies and are the winners. We cannot let this happen in Nebraska. We must set an example for other states.

2. A major problem this Nebraska bill has ( as well as the 9 or so states that have bills passed already) is that it is going to wipe out great small business. The significance of these regulatory fees is being overstated by the lobbyists. TAX revenue is being understated. This is a huge factor. Full season fantasy players pay taxes on all traditional full season earnings. They even get a 1099 on gross profits, which don’t even take off your entry fee. Mine alone over the years is very significant, not to mention all other Nebraskans. This easily trumps these small fees that would be created by the full season companies. This bill is going to wipe out great small business, and then Nebraska won’t get fees from them, or tax revenue from players like me. The daily companies send net income 1099’s and since so few are profitable there won’t be any tax revenue for the state.

3. The daily companies caused the need for regulation. They should be the only ones paying regulatory fees. The daily companies should pay enough to cover the licensing of all types of fantasy companies to be regulated. The traditional companies could be on a fine-based system. This allows full season companies to stay in business while only paying hefty fines if they don’t meet the regulatory measures. There are other ideas to save the full season companies, this is only one of them.

4. It cannot be stated enough that daily and traditional fantasy sports are not the same. They shouldn’t be under the same umbrella. We need to be a leader in Nebraska to get this correct. The goal in creating bills is not to wipe out small business. This is the goal of Draftkings and Fanduel. THEY CREATED THE PROBLEM IN THE FIRST PLACE! They need to pay the regulatory fees to fix it, not innocent bystanders who face getting wiped off the map.


Where to go from here.

1. It was discussed many times during the hearing that this bill will have amendments. I think I should be part of this process. I am willing to talk to Senator Larson anytime, anywhere. This goes for any other Senator that cares about this important issue as well. There were a lot of people testifying on this issue. Hopefully it is given the attention it deserves.
2. There have been 9 or so States that have passed bills. Roughly 12 more are in the process of creating them. So far, they have all fallen prey to the Draftkings and Fanduel representatives misleading tactics. We need to take pride in Nebraska. The 41 states that may address this can have a great blueprint for how this should be handled.
3. You have a great resource right here, that is very knowledgeable and more than willing to help. I want things that should be legal to be legal. I want business to thrive if they have done nothing wrong. I want to keep revenue streams alive in Nebraska. Those are things all Senators should want.
4. I urge Senator Larson to reach out to me. I will get word out on this issue in Nebraska. I have vast knowledge of all the things that need regulation in both daily and full season. They are not the same things for both types of games. I doubt there is any question regarding fantasy sports that I cannot answer. I will make it easy for him and will make it work any time or place, or on the phone. Whatever is the most convenient A short call to explain things, and answer some questions to get the ball rolling would be great.

I would like to thank Senator Larson and the rest of the members for listening to me today. My phone number is xxxxx. and my email is xxxxx . I welcome any questions, and am generally available this time of year as a resource. The future of many small businesses depend on it, and the favorite hobby of millions of people also depend on it.

[KJ Duke]

Good luck, I hope you are successful in the State.

[Gekko]

Good luck Chad.

Allow me to play devil's advocate...

1. You testified, "All fantasy players get 1099’s and pay taxes on their earnings from full season companies."

How do you define a player's "earnings" from full season companies?

Did you receive a 1099 for ALL prize money you WON during the tax year? If not, please describe.

2. You testified, "They need to exempt the full season companies from the regulatory fees. Make them fine based and let the daily companies regulatory fees pay for all companies, since they caused the need for it."

Are you familiar with full season companies that have stiffed their customers prize money, well before daily companies were around?

How would a "fine based" system work if a full season company declared bankruptcy?

[Cocktails and Dreams]

Nearly all full season companies send 1099's. The largest several certainly do. Not sure what you are trying to imply here exactly, but from my experience nearly all full season companies send 1099's on gross earnings.

As for being stiffed, I believe I have been stiffed for more than anyone. However, the laws already passed in some states force companies to address this. It isn't needed in the rest, since they already have to do it, unless regulatory fees are eliminated so they can sustain business. The regulatory things being written are being written specifically for daily companies. If there is no company, it doesn't matter if they are going to stiff anyone. I believe the full season industry is in a decent place right now. Granted, I trusted too many people far too much in the past and got burnt for several hundred thousand dollars. Growing up in Nebraska, where people seem to be more trustworthy than other places, has been a detriment on this front. The fine based thing, or how to regulate full season without the regulatory fees is a tricky thing for sure. I don't have the answers to give them at this point, so I am welcome to suggestions. What I do believe is that there are solutions out there. The main focus for now, is making them aware that there is a difference between the two games. It is hard enough to get people to understand this when they know nothing about fantasy sports. The rest is irrelevant if one cannot get past the first hurdle, so I am not trying to overcomplicate it in the early stages, even though I have been stung as bad or worse than anyone. If I bang that drum, they will just say to hell with all fantasy games, which is not the goal I have.

[Edwards Kings]

In Georgia, HB 118 just exited subcommittee. I am going to reach out to the bill sponsors (the bill does not draw the season long distinction) and my own Representative.

Chad, I am going to use some of your testimony and apply it to my own experience.

HB 118, in general:

10-1-932 (a) No fantasy contest operator shall offer any fantasy contest with an entry fee in this state without first being registered with the department, except a fantasy contest operator that offered fantasy contests in this state prior to the effective date of this article may continue to offer fantasy contests with an entry fee in this state, provided that such operator files an application for registration with the department within 30 days of the application's availability, and until such application for registration has been approved or denied.
(d) Before obtaining a registration to offer fantasy contests with an entry fee in this state, a fantasy contest operator shall pay to the department a registration fee as follows:
(1) For a fantasy contest operator with gross fantasy contest revenues for the preceding 12 months of $5 million or more, the fantasy contest operator shall pay $50,000.00;
(2) For a fantasy contest operator with gross fantasy contest revenues for the 71 preceding 12 months of $4 million or more, but less than $5 million, the fantasy contest operator shall pay $40,000.00;
(3) For a fantasy contest operator with gross fantasy contest revenues for the preceding 12 months of $3 million or more, but less than $4 million, the fantasy contest operator shall pay $30,000.00;
(4) For a fantasy contest operator with gross fantasy contest revenues for the preceding 12 months of $2 million or more, but less than $3 million, the fantasy contest operator shall pay $20,000.00; or
(5) For a fantasy contest operator with gross fantasy contest revenues for the preceding 12 months of less than $2 million, the fantasy contest operator shall pay $10,000.00.
(e) On the anniversary date of the fantasy contest operator's registration, the fantasy contest operator shall annually pay to the department a registration renewal fee in accordance with the fee schedule in subsection (d) of this Code section.
f) In addition to the registration fee, a fantasy contest operator shall annually pay to the department a tax of 6 percent of the fantasy contest operator's gross fantasy contest revenues for the preceding 12 months of registration.

10-1-933 contains lots of bla-bla-bla about making sure people participating are not minors, etc., most of which is already covered under the Federal Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act (UIGEA) but:
(d) All fantasy contest operators shall develop fantasy contests that are limited to beginners and shall keep nonbeginner players from participating, either directly or through another person as a proxy, in those fantasy contests. A fantasy contest operator shall suspend the account of any fantasy contest player who is not a beginner and who enters a beginner contest directly or through another person as a proxy and shall ban such individual from further play. A fantasy contest operator may allow a nonbeginner who is not a highly-experienced player to enter up to ten beginner contests in any sport in which that player has not already entered 20 fantasy contests.

A beginner is defined as any fantasy contest player who has entered fewer than 51 contests offered by a single fantasy contest operator and who has not won at least three fantasy contest prizes of $1,000.00 or more.

[Edwards Kings]

For any other Georgians out there, this is what I am sending:

[email protected] District 171 House Ways and Means Chairman 404.656.5103
[email protected] District 16 House Ways and Means Vice Chairman and Co-sponsor 404.657.1803
[email protected] District 118 Co-sponsor 404.656.0265
[email protected] District 106 Co-sponsor 404.463.3793
[email protected] District 98 Co-sponsor 404.656.0298
[email protected] District 49 Co-sponsor 404.656.5064 Sponsor
[email protected] District 97 404.656.9210 My representative

RE: Georgia House Bill 118 “Fantasy Contests Act” (“HB 118”)

I am concerned about what I believe will be an unintended consequence of the Fantasy Contests Act. I am therefore respectfully requesting season long fantasy contests be specifically excluded from HB 118.

First, a little about myself. I am a life-long Georgian. My antecedents arrived in Georgia just north of Savannah in 1747. I attended two universities in Georgia and have been a registered voter here since 1978. I was married here, raised my children here, have had two successful careers here and have a current Georgia CPA license.

I have participated in traditional season long fantasy football and baseball leagues since I became an adult. Since 2004, I have participated in season long events offered on a national level by one source and its’ successors. I was very pleased in 2006 when season-long fantasy games became protected under the federal Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act (UIGEA) which gave guidelines on how season-long games can pay cash prizes and be legal.

I would submit that season long fantasy contests are fundamentally different from the daily fantasy sports (“DFS”) contests offered by companies like Draft Kings and Fan Duel. While I have participated in DFS contests infrequently and sporadically in past, I believe the season long contests and DFS are so different that they should not even be included in the same legislation. I believe the fundamental differences are:

• The participants in season long fantasy contests are enthusiasts who rely on skill in order to participate and enjoy this hobby. The target audience of Draft Kings and Fan Duel are typically not the season long fantasy enthusiasts.
• Unlike DFS, the companies that run national public fantasy season long leagues may allow for both live and online participation. The league members (typically 10 to 15 participants) take turns drafting real players to form their fantasy team roster or use a list of real players with established “value” to construct a roster within a fantasy salary cap.
• While a customer may play in multiple season long contests, due to the level of effort and time commitment require, a season long participants typically limit the number of teams they have.
• Participant’s draft their fantasy teams with others from their league before the season begins (for example March/April for baseball; August/September for football) and must wait until the season ends in order to recognize the winners.
• The participants improve their team throughout the season as the individual contest rules allow (most commonly via a pool of undrafted real players or trades between participants) and otherwise actively manage their rosters throughout the entire season by setting a starting lineup periodically throughout the season (for example each week) by choosing among the available players on their roster (“starters” and “reserves”).
• Throughout the season, the season long participant must address the changing dynamics which occur during the season such as promotions, demotions, role change, and injuries.

As with most serious hobbies, the participants make long commitments to study, track, manage and “live” their teams while waiting as long as six months in order to achieve the desired results and realize any rewards. Season long participants are really enthusiasts. No one else would put so much effort and wait so long for satisfaction.

In DFS however, the results are, as implied by the label, daily. You simply pick your team, and by the end of the day’s games, that is it. As such, DFS is much more subject the professional participant who may even use computer generated algorithms in order to maximize roster construction and promulgate multiple entries (reducing by volume the chances of success for the more casual participant).

In my opinion, both contests are games of skill. However, it is a matter of degree. There is no question season long is a far more skillful game requiring long-term commitment to a single contest. Season long contests are a series of hundreds or even thousands of decisions throughout the course of your team’s season. The more decisions, the more skill involved. Season long contests do not attract professional or even casual gamblers. Nor does season long contests enable gambling addictions. The level of effort and the time it takes to win your reward are simply too great.
And, as a result, by percentage of participation and number of potential contest involvment, the season long aficionado is a much smaller cousin to the DFS participant.

On a personal note, I will also add that there is positive interaction and camaraderie in full season leagues not found in DFS. There is banter during the draft and throughout the year. Positive friendships are made time and time again. I have made lifelong friends from other parts of the country that range from a letter carrier in Florida, to a farmer in Iowa, to New York businessmen, California financial advisor, actors, performers, directors, retirees, teachers, and on and on and on. This personal nature I feel separates season long fantasy contests from other contests which may be viewed as game of chance played for money.

DFS is a game of skill that I do not equate to a game of chance, but DFS has little to none of this personal nature. I feel this is an important distinction. There is no draft, no active chat room, no discussion whatsoever, and the contest is over the same day.

I believe the intent of HB 118 is targeted more at the DFS space and perhaps intended to protect DFS participants. I believe some of the driving force behind enacting bills such as HB 118 (and sister legislation in other States) are the two largest DFS providers, DraftKings and FanDuel, who will use the fees and taxes in order to mitigate competition. HB 118 will create a serious barrier to entry into the DFS space as well as drive out current small business operators who already struggle to survive. The best protection for consumers is competition. Less competition is bad for DFS participants, but good DraftKings and FanDuel, who as you know announced in November 2016 their intent to merger.

But I am not attempting to argue here the merits of HB 118 as a whole. If one of the purposes of HB 118 is consumer protection and, as I mentioned early, season long participants are already protected UIGEA and therefore HB 118 would not afford any measurable incremental protection.

I believe the other intent of HB 118 is to generate revenue to the State of Georgia. Season long fantasy participation is a significant minority when compared to DFS, both in number of contests available and participation. Conversely, the fees and taxes proposed in HB 118 would reduce the prize pool available to the season long contest winners (who, by the way, already receive 1099’s and therefore are already subject to Georgia tax). To exclude season long contests from HB 118 would not have a material impact on revenue generation for Georgia.

In any regard, an unintended consequence of HB 118 as written will be to seriously restrict if not destroy the full season fantasy contests, whose Georgia participants, as I mentioned early, are hobbyists and enthusiasts who rely on skill and patience in order to succeed.

Please specifically exclude from HB 118 season long fantasy contests.

Thank you for your consideration.

[headhunters]

wayne- that was excellent. just excellent. does anyone know where illinois sits on this? i have not read most of the posts on this subject but if votes are being held in illinois i will copy the non personal part of this and send it. mike

[headhunters]

btw- to those of you who have read gregs posts on the $ spent by the 2 daily sports companies and think it is "crazy" like greg does- wake up. this crap has been happening forever in all sorts of industries and all sorts of situations. my two favorites are the telecommunications industry- specifically by at&t ( who should have gone out of business 25 years ago) and the auto industry who saved themselves but who threw countless other industries under the bus.

[Edwards Kings]

wayne- that was excellent. just excellent. does anyone know where illinois sits on this? i have not read most of the posts on this subject but if votes are being held in illinois i will copy the non personal part of this and send it. mike

Mike,

This might be a place to start looking for information on Illinois. I will not comment on content, but you may find the bill number, etc. as applicable.

http://www.legalsportsreport.com/dfs-bill-tracker/

[Brian Jenner]

It looks like the best route is to go back to CBS/Fantrax/ESPN/Yahoo-based leagues that will do the admin work for free or a nominal cost, all of which already have fully functional draft and auction software in place, and handle the funds separately through LeagueSafe which takes a 0% commission.

It's already bordering on insanity to pay a flat 20% fee for something in which there is massive free-to-use infrastructure already in place. The added complication and cost of all this nonsense with licensing fees in 50 different states just about puts the final nail in the coffin, I think. It's a shame more wasn't done to prevent season-long games from being lumped in with DFS, but it's likely the powers-that-be in the fantasy sports world did it that way to make season-long games obsolete and drive more people to much more profitable DFS games.

[Edwards Kings]

It looks like the best route is to go back to CBS/Fantrax/ESPN/Yahoo-based leagues that will do the admin work for free or a nominal cost, all of which already have fully functional draft and auction software in place, and handle the funds separately through LeagueSafe which takes a 0% commission.

It's already bordering on insanity to pay a flat 20% fee for something in which there is massive free-to-use infrastructure already in place. The added complication and cost of all this nonsense with licensing fees in 50 different states just about puts the final nail in the coffin, I think. It's a shame more wasn't done to prevent season-long games from being lumped in with DFS, but it's likely the powers-that-be in the fantasy sports world did it that way to make season-long games obsolete and drive more people to much more profitable DFS games.

Sorry, with all due respect and recognizing it may just be me, but CBS/ESPN/Yahoo-based leagues suck. Always have. Especially when compared to the overall product and service the NFBC has provided. I, like you I imagine, would hate it if that was all that was available to us.

I do not really know FanTrax (other than it used to have a faint wisp of Dorito dust), but that when I look at their product offerings, they are more the old CDM-style salary leagues. Some like those, but not the same to me.

[Deadheadz]

I do not really know FanTrax (other than it used to have a faint wisp of Dorito dust), but that when I look at their product offerings, they are more the old CDM-style salary leagues. Some like those, but not the same to me.

Last year someone from one of the podcasts ran an "NFBC style" DC slow draft roto league on Fantrax with a $25 entry fee.
Much better site than Yahoo but no better than ESPN or CBS. They couldn't include mid-week lineup changes so it wasn't close enough to NFBC style for my liking.

[Greg Ambrosius]

There's no clarity in Florida right now as three different bills have been proposed there:

http://www.legalsportsreport.com/13099/ ... ign=buffer

[Brian Jenner]

It looks like the best route is to go back to CBS/Fantrax/ESPN/Yahoo-based leagues that will do the admin work for free or a nominal cost, all of which already have fully functional draft and auction software in place, and handle the funds separately through LeagueSafe which takes a 0% commission.

It's already bordering on insanity to pay a flat 20% fee for something in which there is massive free-to-use infrastructure already in place. The added complication and cost of all this nonsense with licensing fees in 50 different states just about puts the final nail in the coffin, I think. It's a shame more wasn't done to prevent season-long games from being lumped in with DFS, but it's likely the powers-that-be in the fantasy sports world did it that way to make season-long games obsolete and drive more people to much more profitable DFS games.

Sorry, with all due respect and recognizing it may just be me, but CBS/ESPN/Yahoo-based leagues suck. Always have. Especially when compared to the overall product and service the NFBC has provided.

Suck in what way? That's a pretty vague criticism. To each their own, but in my opinion the UI is significantly better on all of those services (especially ESPN, which I almost exclusively used outside NFBC for the past 5 or so years) compared to NFBC which is very segmented and clunky. And none of them lack any features, as far as I remember. If you're going to play in a league that charges $500 per team, ESPN/Yahoo/Fantrax will do it for free while NFBC wants $1500, which is an enormous difference. It's a lot of work, no doubt, but that's only because it's inefficient and doesn't benefit from the economy of scale that places like ESPN do. To make that cost even higher just makes it an untenable situation.

Anyway... this is kind of off topic. Bottom line, it sucks that the regulations are delivering a death knell, but the monster that is DFS seems to be swallowing everything up.

[Bjs2025]

It looks like the best route is to go back to CBS/Fantrax/ESPN/Yahoo-based leagues that will do the admin work for free or a nominal cost, all of which already have fully functional draft and auction software in place, and handle the funds separately through LeagueSafe which takes a 0% commission.

It's already bordering on insanity to pay a flat 20% fee for something in which there is massive free-to-use infrastructure already in place. The added complication and cost of all this nonsense with licensing fees in 50 different states just about puts the final nail in the coffin, I think. It's a shame more wasn't done to prevent season-long games from being lumped in with DFS, but it's likely the powers-that-be in the fantasy sports world did it that way to make season-long games obsolete and drive more people to much more profitable DFS games.

Sorry, with all due respect and recognizing it may just be me, but CBS/ESPN/Yahoo-based leagues suck. Always have. Especially when compared to the overall product and service the NFBC has provided.

Suck in what way? That's a pretty vague criticism. To each their own, but in my opinion the UI is significantly better on all of those services (especially ESPN, which I almost exclusively used outside NFBC for the past 5 or so years) compared to NFBC which is very segmented and clunky. And none of them lack any features, as far as I remember. If you're going to play in a league that charges $500 per team, ESPN/Yahoo/Fantrax will do it for free while NFBC wants $1500, which is an enormous difference. It's a lot of work, no doubt, but that's only because it's inefficient and doesn't benefit from the economy of scale that places like ESPN do. To make that cost even higher just makes it an untenable situation.

Anyway... this is kind of off topic. Bottom line, it sucks that the regulations are delivering a death knell, but the monster that is DFS seems to be swallowing everything up.

Here's the other thing that sucks about ESPN and yahoo, who's recruiting for these leagues for you? What do you do go to message boards and post threads in like 6 sites to fill a league? Then because it isn't professionally run and some bullcrap happens during the draft the league gets sabotaged or something because someone complained about something. Those are my ESPN and yahoo experiences.