One (more) Vote for BBDS

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 6:39 am

Originally posted by UFS:

BBDS will never be used in any sport. There is a HUGE flaw in it. If you value FAAB more than draft slot, or you bid high and just lose out, you will always wind up drafting in the same slots (about 9-13) every year.

For $1300, I do not want to go in knowing I'm pegged for 9-13 every year just because I value FAAB more than draft slot preference. I want an equal shot at any pick.

so basically you are saying you want something of value for nothing. the word freeloader and inefficient come to mind. maybe you could get the best free agent for zero dollars the first week of FAAB? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

keep up the stellar work john :rolleyes:

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 6:43 am

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

quote:Originally posted by UFS:

BBDS will never be used in any sport. There is a HUGE flaw in it. If you value FAAB more than draft slot, or you bid high and just lose out, you will always wind up drafting in the same slots (about 9-13) every year.

For $1300, I do not want to go in knowing I'm pegged for 9-13 every year just because I value FAAB more than draft slot preference. I want an equal shot at any pick.

so basically you are saying you want something of value for nothing. the word freeloader and inefficient come to mind. maybe you could get the best free agent for zero dollars the first week of FAAB? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

keep up the stellar work john :rolleyes: [/QUOTE]:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Jim Young · Post by **Jim Young** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:12 am

Are you guys for real with this stuff? Don't you have anything better to do rather then complaining about draft spots and KDS and whatever else? I mean come on! We all draft the ame amount of players, and with a snake draft it all evens out in the end.

It is really absurd that you guys are complaining about this. Seriously, do us all a favor, bend over, pick your p***sy lips up off of the ground, and tuck them back up in there!

Quahogs · Post by **Quahogs** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:19 am

Originally posted by Jim Young:

Are you guys for real with this stuff? Don't you have anything better to do rather then complaining about draft spots and KDS and whatever else? I mean come on! We all draft the ame amount of players, and with a snake draft it all evens out in the end.

It is really absurd that you guys are complaining about this. Seriously, do us all a favor, bend over, pick your p***sy lips up off of the ground, and tuck them back up in there! if you have a problem with the content jimmy boy then you can just christen the next thread with your insightfulness. :rolleyes:

Q

JohnZ · Post by **JohnZ** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:23 am

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

quote:Originally posted by UFS:

BBDS will never be used in any sport. There is a HUGE flaw in it. If you value FAAB more than draft slot, or you bid high and just lose out, you will always wind up drafting in the same slots (about 9-13) every year.

For $1300, I do not want to go in knowing I'm pegged for 9-13 every year just because I value FAAB more than draft slot preference. I want an equal shot at any pick.

so basically you are saying you want something of value for nothing. the word freeloader and inefficient come to mind. maybe you could get the best free agent for zero dollars the first week of FAAB? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

keep up the stellar work john :rolleyes: [/QUOTE]No, that's not what I said.

Keep taking a stab at it though!!

Again, you have not come up with anything to answer this flaw. As expected, Greg sees this flaw also.

Too bad you keep trying to twist into something I didn't say. I'd insert the "rolleyes" here, but you have made it meaningless.

headhunters · Post by **headhunters** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:49 am

jim- if "it all evens out at the end"- does that mean we all finished tied? or does it mean we don't finish tied- we just have the same amount of picks. if we have the same amount of picks and don't finish tied- some picks were better than others. some people actually think that where you pick- to get some of the picks you want- matters. if you don't- fine. we will discuss it and you can go back to what it is you do.

KJ Duke · Post by **KJ Duke** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:52 am

Originally posted by UFS:

quote:Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

quote:Originally posted by UFS:

BBDS will never be used in any sport. There is a HUGE flaw in it. If you value FAAB more than draft slot, or you bid high and just lose out, you will always wind up drafting in the same slots (about 9-13) every year.

For $1300, I do not want to go in knowing I'm pegged for 9-13 every year just because I value FAAB more than draft slot preference. I want an equal shot at any pick.

so basically you are saying you want something of value for nothing. the word freeloader and inefficient come to mind. maybe you could get the best free agent for zero dollars the first week of FAAB? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

keep up the stellar work john :rolleyes: [/QUOTE]No, that's not what I said.

Keep taking a stab at it though!!

Again, you have not come up with anything to answer this flaw. As expected, Greg sees this flaw also.

Too bad you keep trying to twist into something I didn't say. I'd insert the "rolleyes" here, but you have made it meaningless.

[/QUOTE]John, you get what you pay for. If you want to pay nothing, you will end up with the scraps that no one else wants to pay for. That's not a flaw, that's just the way it is, and it is more fair than lucking into something of value for nothing. Now THAT is a flaw.

Jim Young · Post by **Jim Young** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 8:24 am

Originally posted by headhunters:

jim- if "it all evens out at the end"- does that mean we all finished tied? or does it mean we don't finish tied- we just have the same amount of picks. if we have the same amount of picks and don't finish tied- some picks were better than others. some people actually think that where you pick- to get some of the picks you want- matters. if you don't- fine. we will discuss it and you can go back to what it is you do. Headie, my good ol' boy, it doesn't mean you finish tied. It means that a draft is a draft man, and whether you are picking 1st, 7th, 12th, or wherever, you still have just as equal a shot as the next guy.

My point is this, STOP COMPLAINING! That is all people seem to do on this board. Now, I am not trying to get "Brown" on my nose here (big ups GG, funny post), but I am starting to feel bad for the guys (Tom, Gregg, etc.) who run this thing. They have a bunch of middle-aged men that probably complain more then their own wives do (no offense to your wives, they may not complain at all, but that is a rare thing, and if so, then kudos to you). Do those guys really need to hear (read) all of the b****ing and moaning that goes on here in these posts? I don't think so! These boards should be for lots of things, like: player analysis, GG's $ updates, ball-breaking, etc. But b****ing and complaining is not something that they should be for.

I know that I love to break ballz, and need to grow up, but some of you guys need to grow some ballz, and stop b****ing. We all have an equal shot (and a pretty good one being 1 in 375) to win $100,000. Stop complaining, and start focusing on that!

headhunters · Post by **headhunters** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 8:27 am

jim we are discussing- not complaining. kds was discussed before implemented. if it bothers you- like i said- don't read. that will keep keep your blood pressure down.

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 8:51 am

Originally posted by UFS:

Again, you have not come up with anything to answer this flaw. As expected, Greg sees this flaw also.

i assume you are speaking for greg and that would be quite unfortunate. my guess is that you want to sound "important" and are posting this drivel on your own.

there is no flaw with BBDS, except in your warped mind. if you value spending $ on free agents more than draft slots, great save your money for free agents. if you are like ME (and countless others) and value draft slots more, then we should be able to quantify that value using $, just like we do with FAAB.

in any event, i have taken a second look at 3RR and will now be helping to craft the dissenting opinion. Greg, you can thank UFS for making this happen. he lit the anti-BBDS fire once again with total horseshitt propoganda and has now involved you. thank you UFS for helping me regain my focus/drive that BBDS is the best way to allocate draft slots and that KDS and 3RR are just band-aids.

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 8:59 am

Originally posted by Jim Young:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by headhunters:

[qb] It means that a draft is a draft man, and whether you are picking 1st, 7th, 12th, or wherever, you still have just as equal a shot as the next guy.

My point is this, STOP COMPLAINING! That is all people seem to do on this board. jimbo - couple points...

1) if you don't like a certain thread, then don't read it. your posting in a thread you don't like can only mean one thing...you want some attention.

2) BBDS was really created for football drafts as the inequity of draft slots is CLEAR. with baseball, draft slot isn't as important. But, BBDS would still be the best way to allocate draft slots. it would be much better than KDS

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:11 am

Originally posted by Buster:

The NFBC has made significant progress. The KDS method of draft pick selection is by far better than the old GWYG (Get Whatever You Get) method. However, just because it is better doesn't mean that KDS is the best.

Having completed our drafts, I like about 350 of you, am happy with my team. Drafting 11th certainly wasn't my first choice, (or even any of my top ten choices), but it all seemed to work out. I've got to wonder, as I did during and after the draft, what it would have been like to draft 2nd, 5th or 6th. Of course, I can only wonder, as I was not afforded that opportunity, nor other than a random chance at that opportunity.

This week's CREATiVESPORTS Outside the [Batter's] Box column centers on the KDS and Gekko's (God, I hate siding with Gekko) BBDS. All things considered, the BBDS is a far superior method.

Best of luck during the season.

Buster just an FYI buster - if you really want people to buy into BBDS, why would you call the creator a "troll"? doesn't that put your readers in a negative frame of mind right off the bat.

geez...some of the people on these boards act like their still in 5th grade!!!

[ March 21, 2007, 03:12 PM: Message edited by: Gordon Gekko ]

Jim Young · Post by **Jim Young** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:15 am

1) if you don't like a certain thread, then don't read it. your posting in a thread you don't like can only mean one thing...you want some attention.

[/QB][/quote]

as i said in my previous post, i do need to grow up, so yes, i am dying for attention! but at least i have some ballz, unlike some of these other guys.

Quahogs · Post by **Quahogs** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:17 am

GG - doesnt BBDS with FAAB $ create an unequal starting point for a contest (25 leagues competing with each other) such as this ? Right now at the start of the season every league has $15,000 available dollars for FA's. With FAAB BBDS some leagues may have drained $2500 from that pool leaving $12,500 available. Others maybe only $500 leaving $14,500. In your eyes do you think it's still a fair starting point where some with $1000 compete in a $12,500 pool while others compete in a $14,500 pool ?

Q

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:45 am

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

just an FYI buster - if you really want people to buy into BBDS, why would you call the creator a "troll"? doesn't that put your readers in a negative frame of mind right off the bat.I think what Buster was trying to say here was that if we can't answer your three questions, we won't be able to pass...

KJ Duke · Post by **KJ Duke** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:52 am

Originally posted by Quahogs:

GG - doesnt BBDS with FAAB $ create an unequal starting point for a contest (25 leagues competing with each other) such as this ? Right now at the start of the season every league has $15,000 available dollars for FA's. With FAAB BBDS some leagues may have drained $2500 from that pool leaving $12,500 available. Others maybe only $500 leaving $14,500. In your eyes do you think it's still a fair starting point where some with $1000 compete in a $12,500 pool while others compete in a $14,500 pool ?

Q Q - It's all relative, so it doesn't really matter does it? If everyone in League A starts with $1,000 and everyone in Lge B starts with $500, it wouldn't have any effect because players are bid against the league only, not against other leagues that may have more money. Am I missing something?

Jackstraw · Post by **Jackstraw** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:53 am

I really don't see how BBDS is any better than KDS. The first reason it is not better is the problem with tie bids. I'm sure that through enough debate a solution can be found, but is it really worth it? KDS gives everyone an opportunity to pick their desired order of drafting. The draft order is then based on a random selection of numbers and the draft spots are divvied up accordingly. What's the problem with that? BBDS is just another method, and it is not any better or worse than KDS. But there needs to be some consistency in the league. By changing these types of rules on a regular basis then the legitimacy of the league comes into question. I vote to stick with what we have. The only option that I would entertain would be based upon the previous year's final standings or the historical rankings of players, much like is done in the NFL draft. There are a lot of holes in that idea too though.

freddiezee · Post by **freddiezee** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 10:11 am

With what Tom was saying about entering KDS incorrectly, I realized after reading his post that I totally made that mistake for my satellite league this year. I ended up with pick 6, which was my 5th choice, but I had incorrectly entered it as my 2nd choice, because I entered a 2 in the box across from it (pick 2 was my 6th choice). It's not too big of a loss, getting your 5th choice of selections. But, I can see how others could have done that. I definitely won't make that mistake again, but maybe a draft preference confirmation email might be a good idea.

I'll never know what order my name was drawn in, but if it was the 2nd, 3rd or 4th name chosen I would have had a different pick had I done it properly. What's really ironic is that had I not even bothered to go in and rank my choices, I would have ended up with a pick that I like better.

Oh well, what's that ancient proverb.....be careful what you wish for you just might get it.

KDS was like my first girlfriend......I knew what I wanted and I got it.....unfortunately I didn't know how to use it very well!

sportsbettingman · Post by **sportsbettingman** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 10:33 am

I know we've been over this plenty...but these things throw up red flags re: FAAB for draft slots.

1) Removal of any randomness to the process allows for far easier collusion.

2) A player can guarantee the first selection year in and year out by bidding 1000...not in the best interest of a competition such as this.

3) Tie bidding resolution would be weak.

4) League to league starting points would be unbalanced. Example...

Team 3 in LV league 5 starts the year with 990 free agent dollars.

Team 3 in NY league 5 starts the year with 670 free agent dollars.

Again...not in the best interest of the competition.

I'm sure there are more problems...but these jump out off the top of my head.

~Lance

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 10:52 am

I know we've been through this many times, but once more won't hurt. All the "reasons" people give against bbds are horeshitt and don't hold up against scrutiny.

Imagine allocating free agents by using KDS. The system would be considered a JOKE

JohnZ · Post by **JohnZ** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 10:57 am

Originally posted by KJ Duke:

quote:Originally posted by UFS:

quote:Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

quote:Originally posted by UFS:

BBDS will never be used in any sport. There is a HUGE flaw in it. If you value FAAB more than draft slot, or you bid high and just lose out, you will always wind up drafting in the same slots (about 9-13) every year.

For $1300, I do not want to go in knowing I'm pegged for 9-13 every year just because I value FAAB more than draft slot preference. I want an equal shot at any pick.

so basically you are saying you want something of value for nothing. the word freeloader and inefficient come to mind. maybe you could get the best free agent for zero dollars the first week of FAAB? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

keep up the stellar work john :rolleyes: [/QUOTE]No, that's not what I said.

Keep taking a stab at it though!!

Again, you have not come up with anything to answer this flaw. As expected, Greg sees this flaw also.

Too bad you keep trying to twist into something I didn't say. I'd insert the "rolleyes" here, but you have made it meaningless.

[/QUOTE]John, you get what you pay for. If you want to pay nothing, you will end up with the scraps that no one else wants to pay for. That's not a flaw, that's just the way it is, and it is more fair than lucking into something of value for nothing. Now THAT is a flaw. [/QUOTE]You guys need to read my post before replying.

You keep on answering it with your own agendas.

I'll say it one last time and PLEASE comment on this only.

I'm not paying $1300 year after year to be pegged into slots 9-13 when I KNOW that FAAB is more valuable than the draft slots.

Put in other terms, I don't want to be pegged to slots 9-13 every year because some idiots over bid for their draft slots.

Put another way, If I play 15 years, I want an equal shot at every draft slot once.

I knew the answer to the following when I asked Greg this during LABR weekend, "What is THE most important thing the best NFBC/NFFC owners do to win?"

W/O any hesitation, Greg answered, "in season management."

Case closed.

Greg isn't going to implement this. He's said so numerous times.

JohnZ · Post by **JohnZ** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:09 am

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

quote:Originally posted by UFS:

Again, you have not come up with anything to answer this flaw. As expected, Greg sees this flaw also.

i assume you are speaking for greg and that would be quite unfortunate. my guess is that you want to sound "important" and are posting this drivel on your own.

there is no flaw with BBDS, except in your warped mind. if you value spending $ on free agents more than draft slots, great save your money for free agents. if you are like ME (and countless others) and value draft slots more, then we should be able to quantify that value using $, just like we do with FAAB.

in any event, i have taken a second look at 3RR and will now be helping to craft the dissenting opinion. Greg, you can thank UFS for making this happen. he lit the anti-BBDS fire once again with total horseshitt propoganda and has now involved you. thank you UFS for helping me regain my focus/drive that BBDS is the best way to allocate draft slots and that KDS and 3RR are just band-aids. [/QUOTE]Again, you have not addressed my only concern.

Why would I want to spend $1300 every year if I'm pegged at 9-13?

This about the sixth time I've asked you this and again, you've spun into some personal BS thing.

What you are asking me to do is to spend very valuable FAAB $$ I don't want to spend just so that I can possibly have an even chance at every draft spot. ROFLMAO.

BTW, I asked Greg about this very subject in Phoenix and we discussed it a bit.

Greg has also posted many times he's not going to implement it. There are just as many people on the other side of the fence. If there weren't, he'd have implemented it! duh

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:09 am

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

Imagine allocating free agents by using KDS. The system would be considered a JOKE How exactly would KDS work with free agents? Wouldn't everyone want their first choice, then their second choice, their third, etc.?

sportsbettingman · Post by **sportsbettingman** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:10 am

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

I know we've been through this many times, but once more won't hurt. All the "reasons" people give against bbds are horeshitt and don't hold up against scrutiny.

Imagine allocating free agents by using KDS. The system would be considered a JOKE It is the main event!

Each year...the money should grow and grow. Keeping random elements as an integral part of league slot and draft slot placements is damn near critical to keep the event as collusion free as possible.

Anyone who wishes for total control has the auction format...which should hopefully grow as well, and someday can overtake the draft style format in popularity.

~Lance

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:27 am

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

quote:Originally posted by UFS:

Again, you have not come up with anything to answer this flaw. As expected, Greg sees this flaw also.

i assume you are speaking for greg and that would be quite unfortunate. my guess is that you want to sound "important" and are posting this drivel on your own.

there is no flaw with BBDS, except in your warped mind. if you value spending $ on free agents more than draft slots, great save your money for free agents. if you are like ME (and countless others) and value draft slots more, then we should be able to quantify that value using $, just like we do with FAAB.

in any event, i have taken a second look at 3RR and will now be helping to craft the dissenting opinion. Greg, you can thank UFS for making this happen. he lit the anti-BBDS fire once again with total horseshitt propoganda and has now involved you. thank you UFS for helping me regain my focus/drive that BBDS is the best way to allocate draft slots and that KDS and 3RR are just band-aids. [/QUOTE]GG, has the weather made you ornery this week? I've been in the office for two hours and read a lot of crap from you so far. As far as John's post, he's right on. Why should guys who don't want to use their FAAB money in your BBDS format be penalized with lower picks each year? BBDS using FAAB will not be used in the NFBC or NFFC main event anytime soon, so stop with this bashing of other owners over it. It's a useless fight that tires me out.

Now you've changed sides on 3RR? Whatever. The wind is blowing a different direction, I guess. To say I'm tired from the last week is an understatement. To say I'm tired about the countless variations needed to level the playing field for everyone is an even bigger understatement.

Maybe sit down, shut up and draft is the best idea out there!