Ron Shandler passes on the big show!

ToddZ · Post by **ToddZ** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:05 am

HQ should have a rep, at least. It is a sign of weakness.

BBHQ has had several staff members compete in the NFBC.

sportsbettingman · Post by **sportsbettingman** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:19 am

All this Shandler talk motivated me to go out to the garage and dig up the 2006 and 2007 Forecasters...fun to look backward on.

(As well as the 2007 NFBC mags.)

I should have listened to Ronny before making that damn bet vs. Nevadaman.

~Lance

bjoak · Post by **bjoak** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:24 am

Originally posted by ToddZ:

quote: HQ should have a rep, at least. It is a sign of weakness.

BBHQ has had several staff members compete in the NFBC. [/QUOTE]My bad. Who are they?

Chest Rockwell · Post by **Chest Rockwell** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:34 am

I have no problem with Walla Walla asking him. I just think it was bad taste to do it several times.

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:45 am

Under 'General NFBC Discussion' the title ran 'Ron Shandler Passes on....'

I thought to myself, I know the guy was sick, but man, talking fantasy baseball right up till the last moments, that was one focused dude!

[ February 21, 2008, 05:46 PM: Message edited by: DOUGHBOYS ]

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:49 am

Originally posted by DOUGHBOYS:

Under 'General NFBC Discussion' the title ran 'Ron Shandler Passes on....'

I thought to myself, I know the guy was sick, but man, talking fantasy baseball right up till the last moments, that was one focused dude!

Priceless

bluenose · Post by **bluenose** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:51 am

OK let me see if I can post something that'll offend absolutely everybody.

If you want to take on all the "personalities", for cash, fantasy sports is the wrong game, friends. Some personalities will play, sure. But a lot, like Shandler, can't risk it. You want to play against ALL the faces? Give up fantasy sports and play poker. Or bridge or backgammon. (Did he say bridge, like what Grandma plays? Yep. High stakes bridge.) Or bet sports against the Asians or tough hombres like Pinnacle/Spiros. Fantasy is a different beast.

You see, you can make a living as a pro poker player, bridge player, or sports bettor. Most of those experts supplement incomes by writing how-tos, giving seminars, etc., but you can actually make a very nice living at the tables, period.

Fantasy? Not so much, as we discussed in another thread. It's hard to find a high-stakes contest that takes out less than 10% where the money is guaranteed. (I haven't found one, and I've looked all over.) And while the best players can grind out a profit at poker, rubber bridge, etc., you can't grind it out in Fantasy. A good poker player sees 20-30 hands an hour live, more on the internet. 2 drafts a day would drive a fantasy "pro" squirrely pretty quickly. Drafting season, even if you could play basketball seriously, is maybe 13 weeks a year. Then, the rest of the time, you're maintaining your 60 teams.

Can you make a living in the fantasy industry? Obviously. Pay websites, mags, seminars, running contests for other people. But playing games at 15%, 20%, 30% takeout isn't how you put food on the table. It's a distraction from your business. And if you enter the NFBC and finish 311/390 because four of your top ten picks were on the 60-day DL before the all-star break, it might damage your credibility with the Great Unwashed you rely on to impulse-buy your mag.

So stop bagging on Shandler. He's trying to make a living. Some experts' business models let them take time out to actually play Fantasy. His doesn't. If Fantasy became more like Poker or Bridge I could see more experts clamouring to get in with their own coin. As it is, fuggedaboudit.

NoBallsNoBabies · Post by **NoBallsNoBabies** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 12:10 pm

I for one am a writer for HQ and I have been competing for 4 years here. I have had pretty good success too! I dont know how other HQ guys have done but I know several of them play in the NFBC.

Chest Rockwell · Post by **Chest Rockwell** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 12:37 pm

Originally posted by NoBallsNoBabies:

I for one am a writer for HQ and I have been competing for 4 years here. I have had pretty good success too! I dont know how other HQ guys have done but I know several of them play in the NFBC. stop being humble if you are who I think you are you are top 10 lifetime right? Grooms right?

NoBallsNoBabies · Post by **NoBallsNoBabies** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 12:47 pm

Yeah, thats me. I dont think I'm in the top 10 anymore after last year though.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 1:01 pm

Originally posted by bluenose:

It's hard to find a high-stakes contest that takes out less than 10% where the money is guaranteed. (I haven't found one, and I've looked all over.) And while the best players can grind out a profit at poker, rubber bridge, etc., you can't grind it out in Fantasy. Trust me, if you can find a contest like this that pays over 90% and there's live drafts in multiple cities with stat fees, back-end support, etc. AND GUARANTEED PRIZES, the only one making money would be the players, not the organizers. I understand the idea of the post, but "taking out less than 10%"????

Move over Ron. Now I feel sick.

sportsbettingman · Post by **sportsbettingman** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 1:02 pm

Originally posted by Chest Rockwell:

quote:Originally posted by NoBallsNoBabies:

I for one am a writer for HQ and I have been competing for 4 years here. I have had pretty good success too! I dont know how other HQ guys have done but I know several of them play in the NFBC. stop being humble if you are who I think you are you are top 10 lifetime right? Grooms right? [/QUOTE]Just curious if you were recruited at all...and if so, was it pre or post NFBC?

~Lance

RedRum · Post by **RedRum** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 1:49 pm

Originally posted by Walla Walla:

He wouldn't have to sit next to me. Hell I'd stay out of the room and go party. As far as running the team I'd let him do that too. Greg could fix it that I'd have no input. I wouldn't want it.

I just like to see him compete. Stop making excuses for him. The offer is still open. I e-mailed Greg and Tom the time I made the offer. Its for real with no strings attached. Your bashing a guy that you want to pay $ to stare at???? weird voyeur you are

[ February 21, 2008, 07:53 PM: Message edited by: RedRum ]

KJ Duke · Post by **KJ Duke** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 2:36 pm

Originally posted by bluenose:

OK let me see if I can post something that'll offend absolutely everybody.

If you want to take on all the "personalities", for cash, fantasy sports is the wrong game, friends. Some personalities will play, sure. But a lot, like Shandler, can't risk it. You want to play against ALL the faces? Give up fantasy sports and play poker. Or bridge or backgammon. (Did he say bridge, like what Grandma plays? Yep. High stakes bridge.) Or bet sports against the Asians or tough hombres like Pinnacle/Spiros. Fantasy is a different beast.

You see, you can make a living as a pro poker player, bridge player, or sports bettor. Most of those experts supplement incomes by writing how-tos, giving seminars, etc., but you can actually make a very nice living at the tables, period.

Fantasy? Not so much, as we discussed in another thread. It's hard to find a high-stakes contest that takes out less than 10% where the money is guaranteed. (I haven't found one, and I've looked all over.) And while the best players can grind out a profit at poker, rubber bridge, etc., you can't grind it out in Fantasy. A good poker player sees 20-30 hands an hour live, more on the internet. 2 drafts a day would drive a fantasy "pro" squirrely pretty quickly. Drafting season, even if you could play basketball seriously, is maybe 13 weeks a year. Then, the rest of the time, you're maintaining your 60 teams.

Can you make a living in the fantasy industry? Obviously. Pay websites, mags, seminars, running contests for other people. But playing games at 15%, 20%, 30% takeout isn't how you put food on the table. It's a distraction from your business. And if you enter the NFBC and finish 311/390 because four of your top ten picks were on the 60-day DL before the all-star break, it might damage your credibility with the Great Unwashed you rely on to impulse-buy your mag.

So stop bagging on Shandler. He's trying to make a living. Some experts' business models let them take time out to actually play Fantasy. His doesn't. If Fantasy became more like Poker or Bridge I could see more experts clamouring to get in with their own coin. As it is, fuggedaboudit. Good post bluenose. While I think an elite player can profit with consistency, it would be an awfully low-paying job given the time and skill required.

The practical way to view playing fantasy sports would be getting great entertainment value for the buck with the side benefit of having the opportunity to recoup most or all of your expenses, and if you're real good, turn a profit. If the industry settles around an 80% payout rate as we have here, I think that's very possible.

NoBallsNoBabies · Post by **NoBallsNoBabies** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 2:49 am

No, I wasnt recruited at all. I just applied for a position a couple of years ago and went through a lengthy interview process.

[ February 22, 2008, 08:49 AM: Message edited by: NoBallsNoBabies ]

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 3:00 am

Originally posted by King of Queens:

quote:Originally posted by DOUGHBOYS:

Under 'General NFBC Discussion' the title ran 'Ron Shandler Passes on....'

I thought to myself, I know the guy was sick, but man, talking fantasy baseball right up till the last moments, that was one focused dude!

Priceless

[/QUOTE]Few posts on these boards make me laugh out loud, but Doughboys' post here did. Now let's just hope you didn't jinx him!! Get better Ron and thanks again for taking the time to answer the questions in the live chat and take some abuse afterwards. We all know it's in good fun.

As I've said many times, Ron is a great guy and great for the industry. We've known each other a long, long time and he obviously takes more heat than I ever will. Projecting baseball stats is a thankless occupation, but as Ron will tell you, it sure beats working for a living.

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 3:12 am

Is there any expert (or "expert") that is put under the NFBC microscope more than Ron Shandler? My guess would be no.

eddiejag · Post by **eddiejag** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 5:07 am

Matthew Berry would number 2, people have a lot opinions about the NOT SO TALENTED MR ROTO.

He drives me crazy always thinking or trying to be funnier then anybody else.Because he wont give the NFBC the time of day know , Shandler win's.If Berry came on the message boards im sure he would be hit from all over.Some people agreeing with him and a lot not.

ToddZ · Post by **ToddZ** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 5:11 am

Is there any expert (or "expert") that is put under the NFBC microscope more than Ron Shandler? My guess would be no. That's only because there is no microscope big enough for me to be put under. The Hubble telescope maybe.

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 5:16 am

Originally posted by ToddZ:

quote: Is there any expert (or "expert") that is put under the NFBC microscope more than Ron Shandler? My guess would be no. That's only because there is no microscope big enough for me to be put under. The Hubble telescope maybe. [/QUOTE]Todd, I know you guys are pals and all, but your technical expertise blows away that of Mr. Shandler.

ToddZ · Post by **ToddZ** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 5:50 am

Todd, I know you guys are pals and all, but your technical expertise blows away that of Mr. Shandler. We each have our own niche. Ron is light years ahead of me when it comes to projection theory.

But I'm trying to catch up

Chest Rockwell · Post by **Chest Rockwell** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 5:54 am

Originally posted by eddiejag:

Matthew Berry would number 2, people have a lot opinions about the NOT SO TALENTED MR ROTO.

He drives me crazy always thinking or trying to be funnier then anybody else.Because he wont give the NFBC the time of day know , Shandler win's.If Berry came on the message boards im sure he would be hit from all over.Some people agreeing with him and a lot not. Eddie behind all the jokes with Mathew Berry is a solid business model inherited by him and then blown up in less than a year.

sportsbettingman · Post by **sportsbettingman** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 6:31 am

Originally posted by Chest Rockwell:

quote:Originally posted by eddiejag:

Matthew Berry would number 2, people have a lot opinions about the NOT SO TALENTED MR ROTO.

He drives me crazy always thinking or trying to be funnier then anybody else.Because he wont give the NFBC the time of day know , Shandler win's.If Berry came on the message boards im sure he would be hit from all over.Some people agreeing with him and a lot not. Eddie behind all the jokes with Mathew Berry is a solid business model inherited by him and then blown up in less than a year. [/QUOTE]The second time (or maybe third) I saw him throw those cue cards or paper (looked coached to do)...I had to turn him off.

He's no Letterman. :rolleyes:

~Lance

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 6:58 am

Originally posted by King of Queens:

quote:Originally posted by ToddZ:

quote: Is there any expert (or "expert") that is put under the NFBC microscope more than Ron Shandler? My guess would be no. That's only because there is no microscope big enough for me to be put under. The Hubble telescope maybe. [/QUOTE]Todd, I know you guys are pals and all, but your technical expertise blows away that of Mr. Shandler. [/QUOTE]I think we should shame Todd into writing his weekly piece on the NFBC boards again real soon. C'mon Todd, time for you to sit down for an hour and come up with a piece from now until Draft Day like you did last year. You had that cult following last year -- I think Lance led the cult, but that's another story

-- and the masses want to see your insight again this season.

So here's your invitation from the Commish: Early next week, let's see a Zola Thoughts piece on the NFBC boards. Deal?

rockitsauce · Post by **rockitsauce** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:20 am

This is my 2nd yr participating in NFBC drafts so I don't know Ron Shandler from Gary Shandling, but when I read the title "Ron Shandler passes on", I also thought damn, shouldn't that be something in the Non-Fantasy Category for discussion. I assumed he musta been some kinda fantasy guru, but anyways, glad ya only have the flu Mr. Shandler, could be worse!!!