Manny and Ortiz

headhunters · Post by **headhunters** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 6:43 am

for the most part agree. i won't write my whole thought process on this issue- too long and who cares what i think. however- there are some nice articles in todays hardball times on the subject of the leaking. basically - you either think it is ok to release the names or you don't. you think it is ok for someone to leak the names and for the new york times or post to be publishing these names- or you don't. i believe- especially after reading the hardball times; that the names should nor be released and i have always always believed that a reporter or anyone who will not reveal their source when the are leaking information that a federal judge has ordered sealed- should be in contempt and imprisoned. there are many aspects of the legal system i do not like- but i do believe that the cornerstone of a free society is a legal system and not the 4th estate. when a federal judge puts something under seal- they are the law. they have a reason. in this case individual rights. what many people ( read liberals) then want to look at is " whose right" in this case " oh they are just a bunch of steroid using millionaire ballplayers that have ruined baseabll" it doesn't matter the person- it is the legal system that matters. to leak these names is a crime. i am 100% cetain whomever is leaking them is doing it with that knowledge. it is also clear that they have a plan in how they are doing it. the ny papers know this also. from a legal standpoint these people should be brought to justice. on the players- i guess i just thought one guy would be willing to disregard all the good points you made doughboys and say" i am on the list- or i am retired and i was on the list and i did wrong". sort of a brave- against all odds- type of statement. alas- no one has done it. one other point- and i was thinking this is 2003. if anyone had been playing any sport or in any health club from the 90's on- they were around ( and still are) tons of "drinks" to make you "better". why didn't gammons or olney or tim k or any of these slugs buy these drinks- drink them- and get tested. wouldn't you have been curious. i think the people that tested positive might run the gammut from the needle to the protein drink. not now- but then. we won't ever know that i don't think.

Ryan C · Post by **Ryan C** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 7:29 am

Originally posted by Red Sox Nation:

quote:Originally posted by Ryan Carey:

I don't disagree that every team has their dirty guys - but not many can match the duo of Manny and Ortiz - woner who else from those teams was juicing - Lowell??? Perhaps.

The real point is that David Ortiz is not who we thought he was and neither are those Red Sox teams. Maybe Lowell did? I wonder if Grady, Hafner, CC were juicing too. In particular Betancourt and Byrd were dominant in the 2007 ALCS while Carmona and CC rolled over. Don't blame the PEDS on that loss. Look at your 1-2 duo. [/QUOTE]Again - I am not claiming that my team was 100% clean - I actually think Casey Blake is a candidate from that team.

As for Bentancourt - he came up in the Red Sox system actually- and was suspended in 2005 - which leads me to believe he had a better than 50% chance of being clean by 2007 - due to the fact that as a previously suspended player he was subject to much more testing.

The real sad truth for Sox fans is this - your championships are tainted-period- whether or not every team has/had steroids users is less a point of contention or discussion than the teams who won multiple Championships with dirty superstars (yes Yankee fans - you too).

Also - Sox fans were merciless (not you personally) and vocal earlier in the season on message boards and talk radio when Arod got outed - so they now get to have the shoe on the other foot.