Dotel drop

frank&beans · Post by **frank&beans** » Mon May 24, 2010 10:18 am

i am fine with dotel being dropped.. wait till later in the year, closers will be dropped from teams left and right. but dropping grady sizemore? sure he has sucked hard, but not sure i am ok with dropping a second-third round pick.

Frozen Tundra · Post by **Frozen Tundra** » Mon May 24, 2010 10:57 am

Originally posted by frank&beans:

i am fine with dotel being dropped.. wait till later in the year, closers will be dropped from teams left and right. but dropping grady sizemore? sure he has sucked hard, but not sure i am ok with dropping a second-third round pick. My point exactly. People take issue with Dotel yet nobody seems to mind that Sizemore was dropped in a Main event league as well. Sure he started slow and is on DL, but he is not out for the season as far as I know.

anpyanks · Post by **anpyanks** » Mon May 24, 2010 11:18 am

Originally posted by Chest Rockwell:

quote:Originally posted by Chico Lind's Hermanos:

Dotel stinks and will be traded away sooner rather than later to a situation where he isnt even a closer. so what are we really talking about 5-7 saves max until this happens. I thought only good players were removed from free agent pools. Dotel hardly qualifies and I'm an owner of Dotel in a auction league. Your honor I would like to call Kenny Rogers being removed from the pool to the stand and let my buddy Chico question him for a minute.

I asked for it to be reviewed some agreed some did not. Decision made and I can certainly see the logic in it move on. [/QUOTE]Chest, maybe its frustration speaking cause this guy drives me insane in my auction and there is no way out. add that to i have season tickets to the pirates and i have to witness these meltdowns on basically a nightly basis and u see why i am opinionated on this guy. btw, great start to the season. keep up the good work

Sebadiah23 · Post by **Sebadiah23** » Mon May 24, 2010 12:02 pm

Originally posted by Quack & Willy:

quote:Originally posted by Sebadiah23:

Waiverwire is a newbie who doesn't even realize the spirit of the rule. Just making sure posts like his aren't swaying the decision. I'm not in the league and haven't looked at the league, it's all general principal that I'm protecting. When it happens next time in a league that matters, the precedent will already have been set. Maybe before commenting on the item, you look at the league situation first. [/QUOTE]The league situation is irrelevant to the rule I'm discussing. It could only illuminate possible collusionary motives, which is another point entirely.

Chest Rockwell · Post by **Chest Rockwell** » Mon May 24, 2010 12:03 pm

Originally posted by Tom Kessenich:

quote:Originally posted by Sebadiah23:

Waiverwire is a newbie who doesn't even realize the spirit of the rule. Just making sure posts like his aren't swaying the decision. I'm not in the league and haven't looked at the league, it's all general principal that I'm protecting. When it happens next time in a league that matters, the precedent will already have been set. Craig, as you know we evaluate every move that comes up for discussion on a case-by-case basis. As I explained, the owner who dropped Dotel did so because he believed he had no chance to gain meaningful ground in the Saves category so he elected to go with all starters instead. We cannot force him to keep a player he does not want when he is making a strategic decision to try and improve his team. And again, Dotel is hardly a proven closer with a history of success. His nearly 6 ERA this season is proof of that. If this were an elite closer it could lead us to view the move differently. But this a pitcher who has never proven he can consistently close at a high level being dropped by an owner who is doing so for strategic reasons, not to try and help anyone else in his league.

Personally, I don't have any problems with what the owner has done here and I might consider the same course of action if I was in his shoes. He's making a strategic decision that all owners make during the season. This is part of what makes the game fun and we do not want to issue a mandate on what strategies NFBC owners can or cannot employ during the season. [/QUOTE]Tom the issue is never and never was (see my original post) to question the strategy or intent of the owner. No one was asking to make him keep Dotel just to consider removing him from the pool. In my mind he was a 50/50 guy. Greg ruled and that is fine. I just wanted to clarify that point.

Chest Rockwell · Post by **Chest Rockwell** » Mon May 24, 2010 12:04 pm

Originally posted by Chico Lind's Hermanos:

quote:Originally posted by Chest Rockwell:

quote:Originally posted by Chico Lind's Hermanos:

Dotel stinks and will be traded away sooner rather than later to a situation where he isnt even a closer. so what are we really talking about 5-7 saves max until this happens. I thought only good players were removed from free agent pools. Dotel hardly qualifies and I'm an owner of Dotel in a auction league. Your honor I would like to call Kenny Rogers being removed from the pool to the stand and let my buddy Chico question him for a minute.

I asked for it to be reviewed some agreed some did not. Decision made and I can certainly see the logic in it move on. [/QUOTE]Chest, maybe its frustration speaking cause this guy drives me insane in my auction and there is no way out. add that to i have season tickets to the pirates and i have to witness these meltdowns on basically a nightly basis and u see why i am opinionated on this guy. btw, great start to the season. keep up the good work [/QUOTE]Thanks would not surprise me to be in Pittsburgh this summer lets catch a game.

Sebadiah23 · Post by **Sebadiah23** » Mon May 24, 2010 12:05 pm

Dotel has a 1.00 ERA and 13K's in May with 6 saves. That has to be among the best in the league.

So I think he is borderline but respect the ruling.

-Craig K.

Chest Rockwell · Post by **Chest Rockwell** » Mon May 24, 2010 12:07 pm

Originally posted by AZSteamers:

quote:Originally posted by frank&beans:

i am fine with dotel being dropped.. wait till later in the year, closers will be dropped from teams left and right. but dropping grady sizemore? sure he has sucked hard, but not sure i am ok with dropping a second-third round pick. My point exactly. People take issue with Dotel yet nobody seems to mind that Sizemore was dropped in a Main event league as well. Sure he started slow and is on DL, but he is not out for the season as far as I know. [/QUOTE]I missed that Greg will you consider removing Grady Sizemore from the player pool

In all seriousness these are tough calls for both the owner and the commish. Not sure if Greg is ever done it but a remove and possibly put back in later is a decent 3rd option.

anpyanks · Post by **anpyanks** » Mon May 24, 2010 1:43 pm

Originally posted by Chest Rockwell:

quote:Originally posted by Chico Lind's Hermanos:

quote:Originally posted by Chest Rockwell:

quote:Originally posted by Chico Lind's Hermanos:

Dotel stinks and will be traded away sooner rather than later to a situation where he isnt even a closer. so what are we really talking about 5-7 saves max until this happens. I thought only good players were removed from free agent pools. Dotel hardly qualifies and I'm an owner of Dotel in a auction league. Your honor I would like to call Kenny Rogers being removed from the pool to the stand and let my buddy Chico question him for a minute.

I asked for it to be reviewed some agreed some did not. Decision made and I can certainly see the logic in it move on. [/QUOTE]Chest, maybe its frustration speaking cause this guy drives me insane in my auction and there is no way out. add that to i have season tickets to the pirates and i have to witness these meltdowns on basically a nightly basis and u see why i am opinionated on this guy. btw, great start to the season. keep up the good work [/QUOTE]Thanks would not surprise me to be in Pittsburgh this summer lets catch a game. [/QUOTE]anytime chest just pm me and well meet up... my treat... very good seats as well

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Mon May 24, 2010 2:31 pm

Originally posted by frank&beans:

i am fine with dotel being dropped.. wait till later in the year, closers will be dropped from teams left and right. but dropping grady sizemore? sure he has sucked hard, but not sure i am ok with dropping a second-third round pick. Sorry, I just got home. Yes, I am talking with Tom about Grady Sizemore. He was cut in two leagues this week. I have pulled injured players from league pools in the past with the idea of seeing how badly hurt the player is. I don't want a Top 35 player cut in just one or two leagues because he is hurt early in the year and regret the inclusion of him in 1-2 leagues. I will rule on this tomorrow, I promise.

Dotel is a tough one. Each year we get closers cut early in the year and we let marginal ones stay in the pools. It's a tough call each year and I know some folks want a hard-line rule in place to take out subjectivity. But I think even the hard-line rule isn't foolproof, since player values rise and fall during the season. But each league has its different nuances and we tend to let them play out because it affects remaining FAAB and in-season strategies within each league.

As for Kenny Rogers, if I recall he was an All-Star who was cut during the break and I ruled on the side of caution. Most folks said he would fold in the second half, but he was an All-Star cut in one league and I chose to play it safe. Since then we have let most cuts go through and let the leagues play out, but a Sizemore grabs my attention more than a Dotel does. But I'll rule before I have to leave tomorrow and have Tom post something here. Sorry for any delays on this, but I had to take care of something personal first.

Good luck all and thanks for your patience.

Money · Post by **Money** » Mon May 24, 2010 3:03 pm

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

quote:Originally posted by frank&beans:

i am fine with dotel being dropped.. wait till later in the year, closers will be dropped from teams left and right. but dropping grady sizemore? sure he has sucked hard, but not sure i am ok with dropping a second-third round pick. Sorry, I just got home. Yes, I am talking with Tom about Grady Sizemore. He was cut in two leagues this week. I have pulled injured players from league pools in the past with the idea of seeing how badly hurt the player is. I don't want a Top 35 player cut in just one or two leagues because he is hurt early in the year and regret the inclusion of him in 1-2 leagues. I will rule on this tomorrow, I promise.

Dotel is a tough one. Each year we get closers cut early in the year and we let marginal ones stay in the pools. It's a tough call each year and I know some folks want a hard-line rule in place to take out subjectivity. But I think even the hard-line rule isn't foolproof, since player values rise and fall during the season. But each league has its different nuances and we tend to let them play out because it affects remaining FAAB and in-season strategies within each league.

As for Kenny Rogers, if I recall he was an All-Star who was cut during the break and I ruled on the side of caution. Most folks said he would fold in the second half, but he was an All-Star cut in one league and I chose to play it safe. Since then we have let most cuts go through and let the leagues play out, but a Sizemore grabs my attention more than a Dotel does. But I'll rule before I have to leave tomorrow and have Tom post something here. Sorry for any delays on this, but I had to take care of something personal first.

Good luck all and thanks for your patience. [/QUOTE]Wow, what a grey area. These are decisions that experience will let guide and decide. Good luck, there will be a lot of opinions each way. I like the fact that it's decided by those that don't have a rooting interest.

rkulaski · Post by **rkulaski** » Mon May 24, 2010 3:26 pm

Granted Sizemore is having a horrible season but I'm assuming his performance in years' past will factor into the decision?

KJ Duke · Post by **KJ Duke** » Mon May 24, 2010 4:49 pm

Originally posted by rkulaski:

Granted Sizemore is having a horrible season but I'm assuming his performance in years' past will factor into the decision? He hit 248 last season, his comeback season this year was speculative and he's done nothing to show he will return to form. Third round pick or not there have been equal or better hitters available in most leagues every week. I don't think he should be pulled from the free agent pool hitting .211 with zero homers along with an injury.

rkulaski · Post by **rkulaski** » Mon May 24, 2010 5:46 pm

Originally posted by KJ Duke:

quote:Originally posted by rkulaski:

Granted Sizemore is having a horrible season but I'm assuming his performance in years' past will factor into the decision? He hit 248 last season, his comeback season this year was speculative and he's done nothing to show he will return to form. Third round pick or not there have been equal or better hitters available in most leagues every week. I don't think he should be pulled from the free agent pool hitting .211 with zero homers along with an injury. [/QUOTE]Agree. I'm assuming that Sizemore's best years when he was at or near 30-30 is the only reason he's in the conversation for being pulled from the free agent pool. While I can understand someone's reasoning for why he should be pulled from the free-agent pool, he's been horrible this season and last season.

Scott Boras · Post by **Scott Boras** » Tue May 25, 2010 12:27 am

Originally posted by KJ Duke:

quote:Originally posted by rkulaski:

Granted Sizemore is having a horrible season but I'm assuming his performance in years' past will factor into the decision? He hit 248 last season, his comeback season this year was speculative and he's done nothing to show he will return to form. Third round pick or not there have been equal or better hitters available in most leagues every week. I don't think he should be pulled from the free agent pool hitting .211 with zero homers along with an injury. [/QUOTE]I also agree with leaving Sizemore in the pool. He was horrible last year and he's been worse this year. Based on his name and past accomplishments, he's likely to demand a high price in FAAB. If one is willing to assume the risk and spend big $$$ for a big ???, I'm all for it. I am not in either league in which he was dropped either. Should Scott Sizemore be pulled from leagues? He's been equally as valuable as Grady so far. The only time the commissioner should intervene and pull a player from the pool is if there's any suggestion of collusion, OR if a healthy and performing star is dropped who could clearly alter the overall competition. There will always be gray areas and differing opinions, but Sizemore doesn't fit any of these descriptions.

Bama · Post by **Bama** » Tue May 25, 2010 1:53 am

Originally posted by Scott Boras:

quote:Originally posted by KJ Duke:

quote:Originally posted by rkulaski:

Granted Sizemore is having a horrible season but I'm assuming his performance in years' past will factor into the decision? He hit 248 last season, his comeback season this year was speculative and he's done nothing to show he will return to form. Third round pick or not there have been equal or better hitters available in most leagues every week. I don't think he should be pulled from the free agent pool hitting .211 with zero homers along with an injury. [/QUOTE]I also agree with leaving Sizemore in the pool. He was horrible last year and he's been worse this year. Based on his name and past accomplishments, he's likely to demand a high price in FAAB. If one is willing to assume the risk and spend big $$$ for a big ???, I'm all for it. I am not in either league in which he was dropped either. Should Scott Sizemore be pulled from leagues? He's been equally as valuable as Grady so far. The only time the commissioner should intervene and pull a player from the pool is if there's any suggestion of collusion, OR if a healthy and performing star is dropped who could clearly alter the overall competition. There will always be gray areas and differing opinions, but Sizemore doesn't fit any of these descriptions. [/QUOTE]I would have to agree with these opinions as i see no reason to pull him from the faab pool.

[ May 25, 2010, 07:55 AM: Message edited by: Bama ]

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Tue May 25, 2010 2:03 am

I understand, Chest. It's good to have these discussions. But again, given Dotel's history of not being a reliable closer we don't believe at this time that he is someone worthy of being removed from the pool. There's just as much risk in picking him up as there is in dropping him in my opinion. That's what makes fantasy sports fun - the strategy aspect.

Sebadiah23 · Post by **Sebadiah23** » Tue May 25, 2010 9:28 am

Depending on league dynamics he could go for a huge chunk of change. It will be interesting to see the FAAB result.

JohnZ · Post by **JohnZ** » Tue May 25, 2010 2:54 pm

9 pitches, 8 strikes. save.

Red Sox Nation · Post by **Red Sox Nation** » Tue May 25, 2010 2:58 pm

Originally posted by JohnZ:

9 pitches, 8 strikes. save. 500 Bid on Sunday

Frozen Tundra · Post by **Frozen Tundra** » Tue May 25, 2010 5:15 pm

[/QUOTE]500 Bid on Sunday [/QB][/quote]

Not a chance in hell. I am not draining my FAAB to get a closer in a shitty team whose best days of 2010 could have been in May and who could be sherrilled for chump change by deadline.

Then again 12 owners in my league might think differently. Make that about 5 - the ones who have $500 left.

ESPN8 THE OCHO · Post by **ESPN8 THE OCHO** » Tue May 25, 2010 6:30 pm

Just got off the Grady post. Just saying I could use another closer and all I really want are the saves. Dotel is much more valuable than Grady Sizemore.

Also it was rationalized that the owner decided to go with a no closer strategy... couldn't the Sizemore owner say he was going with a no terrible player startegy. Also Dotel was dropped in 1 league, Sizemore in too. I think the community will have to insist Dotel not be available if Sizemore is not available.

Hopefully sanity and fairness will win out and both players should be available like they should be.

ESPN8 THE OCHO · Post by **ESPN8 THE OCHO** » Tue May 25, 2010 6:35 pm

Its simple... if you feel there are players that should not be dropped than make that list available prior to the season. Until then you should allow the contest to run its course. (Unless you think there is collusion)

Quack & Willy · Post by **Quack & Willy** » Tue Jun 01, 2010 6:44 am

a bargain...

Dotel Octavio Classic New York Weekend 2 - League 5 225.00 (runner-up 211.00)

Sebadiah23 · Post by **Sebadiah23** » Wed Jun 02, 2010 5:15 am

A big bargain and a very stupid drop.