All Time Draft Thread

Glenneration X · Post by **Glenneration X** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:27 pm

Gentlemen, sorry again for the delay. I did explain that through tomorrow I would be unavailable to make picks during the day due to family matters, but promised to check in at minimum every morning and night. I know these type of slow drafts can be brutal when there are delays and I'm very uncomfortable to be the cause of these. To those who've been understanding, thank you. To those who haven't, I apologize.

That said, it's time to make a pick. Having chosen both a pitcher and a hitter in the first two rounds, there were several directions I could go in the third. I could go for a second offensive player, as the pool of available ridiculous hitting seasons are starting to dwindle. I could follow the recently started reliever run before that pool followed suit. Or I could have grabbed a 2nd starting pitcher to reinforce that side of the rotisserie table. I wanted to go all three. Unfortunately I don't believe the other drafters would allow me to do so.

Though there are several offensive players and one in particular I really would like to add here that likely won't make it back to me in the 4th, I decided against that direction as no matter who I add I'd still be well behind some of the teams that went offense/offense or offense/offense/offense before me. If I'm going to be chasing these stats, I'll chase them later.

Though there are several solid relievers available, with Eck and Gagne gone I don't believe any of the remaining have the all-around ridiculous stats worthy of investing a choice in this early.

Instead I decided with so many strong hitting teams already in place, my best bet to remain relevant in this draft was to create a strong starting pitching base by pairing up my Chesbro choice with another top pitching season.

There were several great pitching seasons to choose from. Eventually I decided on a pitcher and a season that produced stats that when paired up with Chesbro give me nearly half of my required innings, all of them with a sub 2.00 era, all of them with a sub 1.00 whip, with an average of over 30 wins and 250 K's for each pitcher. I believe this pitcher helps me achieve that solid pitching base I'll need to compete. That pitcher......

Dwight "Doc" Gooden 1985

W - 24

S - 0

ERA - 1.53

WHIP - 0.96

K - 268

IP - 276.2

Nevadaman · Post by **Nevadaman** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:35 pm

I remember that season very well. Gooden was so dominant the Las Vegas books changed the betting lines so that you had to lay a run and a half to bet on him!

The Fool on the Hill · Post by **The Fool on the Hill** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:48 pm

Hope all is going as well as possible for you and yours Glenn. I've got something to take care of first, but will make my pick in the next half hour.

Navel Lint · Post by **Navel Lint** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:55 pm

Originally posted by Nevadaman:

I remember that season very well. Gooden was so dominant the Las Vegas books changed the betting lines so that you had to lay a run and a half to bet on him! The guy was without a doubt tough on the entire National League as he beat each team at least once, but he was especially brutal on the Cubs. In 5 Starts against Chicago, Gooden was 5-0 with 5 Complete Games and a 1.00 era.

I’ve never seen a pitcher dominate one team during one season like he did to the Cubs that year.

ToddZ · Post by **ToddZ** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:55 pm

I'm ready so Russell/Navel -- heads up

Suburban Strugglers · Post by **Suburban Strugglers** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:03 pm

Glenn, do not worry about taking extra time man. Family is way more important. Also nice pick. Doc was one of the pitchers I had ranked very very high. I knew he would not fall to me in the 4th but was holding out hope. That was also a season a bit before my time but watching old shows on SNY on the Mets I have seem how great he was that year.

Glenneration X · Post by **Glenneration X** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:14 pm

Once I decided that starting pitching would be the direction I'd follow this round, there were several great seasons to consider. It was a difficult choice. The great ERA when combined with the solid K's, wins, & WHIP were the tipping point. However, there was another factor in choosing the Doctor.

I first started following baseball seriously as an 8 year old in 1975. I was a Mets fan from a family of Mets fans with their roots in Brooklyn Dodger Blue. I would hear about the glory years of the Dodgers of Jackie, the Duke, Pee Wee, Gil, the Rifle, Newk, and Oisk from my grandfather and the Miracle and Ya Gotta Believe Mets of Seaver, Koosman, Ryan, Matlack, Tug, Bud, & Grote from my Dad. I had none of that. After Tom Seaver was traded during the Midnight Massacre of 1977, I was doomed to seven years of cellar finishes rooting for "stars" such as John Stearns, Lee Mazzilli, and Craig Swan. I'd look at teams like the Yankees with Reggie, Munson, Nettles, & Guidry or the Phils with Schmidt, Luzinski, & Carlton or the Reds with Rose, Bench, Morgan, & (gasp!!) Seaver and wonder why my team couldn't have players like that. It all changed in 1984.

Suddenly my Mets had established superstars in Keith Hernandez & Gary Carter, home grown studs in Darryl Strawberry & Lenny Dykstra, and a great pitching staff once again with the likes of Ron Darling, Sid Fernandez, & David Cone. But most of all, it had Doc Gooden.

For those too young to remember Doc Gooden when he first came up, he was our Stephen Strasburg....but better. I've never seen a player come into the game, no matter the credentials, and completely dominate from day one like Doc did. At 19, he was making all-stars look foolish. In fact, he struck out the side in his very first all-star inning in 1984. He had an incredible rookie year, striking out more batters than any rookie pitcher in history. In 1985, his second season, he was even better. He put together a season for the ages. He won the pitching triple crown, had the best ERA in baseball since the mound was lowered in 1969, and was considered hands down the best and most dominating pitcher in baseball at the ripe old age of 20. The sky was the limit.

It all started to change in 1986. Although he was a huge part in the Mets 108 win regular season culminating in the Mets first World Series championship since the '69 Miracle Mets, there was something just not the same with Doc. Even though he was still a great pitcher, the utter domination was no longer there. He had been passed as baseball's most dominant pitcher by the likes of Roger Clemens and Mike Scott. I remember the announcers or beat writers hypothesizing that it was the umpires not giving him the high strike or that trying to develop a change up was messing with his mechanics. Today, fantasy pundits would question his huge innings totals his first two years at such a young age. By the beginning of 1987, we all knew the real reason.

The second half of the 1980's were heady times to be a Mets fan. We were the best team in baseball, the most hated, the most envied. We had great players and we had an attitude. We had Mex & Carter for today and Doc, Darryl, & later Jefferies for tomorrow. I loved that team. It was before I ever played fantasy sports and my love and rooting interest in a player was solely for the uniform he wore and I loved the blue and orange of those Mets. I thought they were to be my sports dynasty. It wasn't meant to be. Still, we will always have 1986. Still, we will also always have the Doc Gooden of 1984 and 1985. Unfortunately, we will also always have what might have been.

Navel Lint · Post by **Navel Lint** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:30 pm

That's a nice write-up Glenn.

You're right, the guy was a better Strasburg. Maybe they had the same fastball, but Gooden had that absolutely wicked 12 to 6 curve which sent many a weak knee'd hitter back to the bench.

The Fool on the Hill · Post by **The Fool on the Hill** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:19 pm

He'd be dead 2 days after his 31st birthday, and less 2 1/2 years after this awesome season. In 1978 the Hall of Fame Veteran's Committee finally waived it's 10-year requirement, and enshrined this star of the turn of the century. Bet you didn't know he studied engineering and was probably the first to design and market an electric baseball scoreboard! With the seventh pick of the 3rd round, this Fool selects

P Addie Joss 1908.

W-24

IP- 325

ERA- 1.16

Whip- 0.806

K- 130

Addie Joss biography

ToddZ · Post by **ToddZ** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:29 pm

I'll take the 2007 season from Hanley Ramirez

ToddZ · Post by **ToddZ** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:36 pm

Through 3.08

Navel Lint · Post by **Navel Lint** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 7:03 pm

I find myself in the same situation as Glenn, two rounds into the draft and I have one Starting Pitcher and one four-category hitter. And I’ve been thinking all day about where I would go with this pick, of course I would have to wait and see what couple of guys went off the board just before me. (I’m writing this just after Glenn picked Gooden and I don’t know what two guys after that).

Should I go with the highest guy on the board using my “Mount Pilot” system, which is a hitter? Or do go with another pitcher?

This is a hard choice, I hate to leave another solid hitter on the board. But the marginal differences I have between the top guys on my list are greater with pitchers than they are hitters.

So I’m going to go with the pitcher. I think this guy helps to put me in a solid position in Wins and WHiP, while really giving me a leg up in K’s when paired with my first pick of Sandy Koufax.

Though he may have had some troubles since, he had a great year in 1968. I’m going with baseball’s last 30 game winner.

My pick is 1968 Denny McLain

Denny McLain

Nevadaman · Post by **Nevadaman** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 7:15 pm

Great pick! I can't believe he lasted this long.

Gekko · Post by **Gekko** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:41 pm

Originally posted by Navel Lint:

My pick is 1968 Denny McLain

Glenneration X · Post by **Glenneration X** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:09 am

It's interesting to see both Joss & McLain go shortly after my Dr. K pick as they were both on my short list of pitchers to choose from once I went in that direction. The add'l K's over Joss and the ERA upgrade over McLain (as well as the blue & orange jersey the Doctor wore) were the deciding factors for me. I still don't know if I made the right decision.

The one decision I am sure that I'm happy to have made is going pitching over hitting there. With all the hitting rich teams at the back end of this draft, I was concerned that another pitching run was in the works and I'd be looking at scraps by the time my next pick came around. Looks like Gekko is concerned as well.

Good luck today gents. I should be able to jump back in a little earlier today than the past few days if my turn comes around.

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:16 am

Originally posted by Navel Lint:

I find myself in the same situation as Glenn, two rounds into the draft and I have one Starting Pitcher and one four-category hitter. And I’ve been thinking all day about where I would go with this pick, of course I would have to wait and see what couple of guys went off the board just before me. (I’m writing this just after Glenn picked Gooden and I don’t know what two guys after that).

Should I go with the highest guy on the board using my “Mount Pilot” system, which is a hitter? Or do go with another pitcher?

This is a hard choice, I hate to leave another solid hitter on the board. But the marginal differences I have between the top guys on my list are greater with pitchers than they are hitters.

So I’m going to go with the pitcher. I think this guy helps to put me in a solid position in Wins and WHiP, while really giving me a leg up in K’s when paired with my first pick of Sandy Koufax.

Though he may have had some troubles since, he had a great year in 1968. I’m going with baseball’s last 30 game winner.

My pick is 1968 Denny McLain

Denny McLain web page

I love this story....

mbendar16 · Post by **mbendar16** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:34 am

Glenn - no problem with the time you need to take with your picks as we know you'll be one of the faster drafters when your schedule gets back to normal for you. The 16 in my screen name is for Doc as he was my favorite Met. It would have been very tough for him to outpitch his '85 season, but all Mets fans could only think how much better the late 80's and 90's would have been (as well as the all-time record books) if Doc had stayed clean. It's always great to see him at Shea and Citi and hope like Straw one day can turn his life around and stay clean.

Navel Lint · Post by **Navel Lint** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:39 am

Originally posted by DOUGHBOYS:

quote:Originally posted by Navel Lint:

My pick is 1968 Denny McLain

web page

I love this story.... [/QUOTE]That is a good story.

Todd...... Please take 1 ER off McLain's pitching line for me

Texas Connection · Post by **Texas Connection** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 5:50 am

with the 10th pick of the 3rd round.............

cy young 1901, 371.1 i.p., 33w, 1.62era, .972 whip, 158ks

CC's Desperados · Post by **CC's Desperados** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 6:14 am

Originally posted by Texas Connection:

with the 10th pick of the 3rd round.............

cy young 1901, 371.1 i.p., 33w, 1.62era, .972 whip, 158ks http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cy_Young

Likewhat17 · Post by **Likewhat17** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:06 am

Originally posted by Texas Connection:

with the 10th pick of the 3rd round.............

cy young 1901, 371.1 i.p., 33w, 1.62era, .972 whip, 158ks I hear that this guy was so good, they even named some kind of award after him.

He was also one of the few people who dominated in the era before 1900, and then continued that success post 1901. Excellent choice.

Edwards Kings · Post by **Edwards Kings** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:10 am

Originally posted by Texas Connection:

with the 10th pick of the 3rd round.............

cy young 1901, 371.1 i.p., 33w, 1.62era, .972 whip, 158ks Philosophical bar conversations often query "What sports record will stand forever?"

My answer is always Cy Young's 511 career wins. With the 300 game winner passing for all intents and purposes with the likes of Randy Johnson, Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine and Roger Clemens (unless someone thinks Moyer has the gas for 33 more wins), no one will ever come close to touching Young.

ToddZ · Post by **ToddZ** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:15 am

Originally posted by Edwards Kings:

quote:Originally posted by Texas Connection:

with the 10th pick of the 3rd round.............

cy young 1901, 371.1 i.p., 33w, 1.62era, .972 whip, 158ks Philosophical bar conversations often query "What sports record will stand forever?"

My answer is always Cy Young's 511 career wins. With the 300 game winner passing for all intents and purposes with the likes of Randy Johnson, Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine and Roger Clemens (unless someone thinks Moyer has the gas for 33 more wins), no one will ever come close to touching Young. [/QUOTE]Picking nits. but since Cy Young also leads in losses, you can argue that the record never broken would be decisions -- or innings pitched. But personally, I will take the 749 complete games.

My favorite Cy Young related bar question is name the pitcher with the most career wins that never won the Cy Young award.

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:20 am

I love the question-

ooh, oooh, can I answer?!

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:26 am

7,355 innings pitched would be a little tough to break too.

37 200 innings seasons