Braun Suspended For Rest Of 2013 Season

[Outlaw]

With Braun, it all comes down to one test which he beat. That's all there is at the present time.

[/quote]

He failed the test in terms of the medical aspect of testing. He got off on specimen procedure handling and a technicality. I remember when that arbitrator ruled and there were not many people or experts who could understand why he ruled the way he did. The arbitrator has never explained his reasoning for the decsion he made.

[Money]

I thought it was quite obvious that Braun was dirty the first time and got off on a technicality. MLB surely was not happy with him getting off. Now he shows up on this list owing 20 - 30K for consulting services? When this story first broke he knew that this could be coming because he knew he was involved with these folks. He and his lawyers had plenty of time to concoct this bullshit story.

This guy might never get suspended but he's not in the clear. He has lost in the court of public opinion and that means no trip to Cooperstown!!

[Tom Kessenich]

As far as I'm concerned it was a highly suspect test and Braun beat it and was vindicated. Another few more seasons like he's been playing and he'll be a HOF lock.

[Money]

As far as I'm concerned it was a highly suspect test and Braun beat it and was vindicated. Another few more seasons like he's been playing and he'll be a HOF lock.

Only time will tell Tom. If this was Miggy I'd probably be saying the same thing.

[Outlaw]

It will certainly be interesting to see how it all plays out. We are now 12-15 years into this mess and NOTHING has been fixed. The Game has been tarnished, but I do believe MLB will get a handle on it...eventually. I also hope ALL the cheats get whats coming to them... the examples they have been setting for the young children who like and play sports and admire these players in all sports is truly disheartening. The list of cheats and liars in sports in the last 20-30 years is just amazing....

Remember too there are about 90 or so more player names that have never been released who failed HGH tests in 2003. MLB/others will drip those names as needed in the future. My thinking on why it has not been done, is their were too many high profile players on the list and the affects on the game would have been severe had they all been released at one time.

[swampass]

well here we go again today... from rotoworld:

According to Bill Madden, Teri Thompson and Michael O'Keeffe of the New York Daily News, Jesus Montero is named in records from the Miami-based Biogenesis clinic which reportedly distributed performance-enhancing drugs to players.
The specific nature of his relationship with the clinic and Anthony Bosch isn't detailed in the report and he isn't linked to any specific performance-drugs. However, he'll almost certainly be part of MLB's investigation. Montero is the latest client of the Levinson brothers' ACES baseball agency to be connected to the Biogenesis clinic, joining Melky Cabrera, Gio Gonzalez and Nelson Cruz.

[Dnye23]

Fact: Braun has a failed test after the 2011 season and wins an appeal to clear his name. In the 2012 season, h closely matches his MVP season statistically, with more home runs.

My opinion and prediction: Braun clears his name AGAIN from this stupid list of PED users. 2013 season comes and goes, Ryan Braun will closely match last year's production and AGAIN be 5-category player.

If I'm sitting at the #1 spot come draft day, I'm taking Ryan Braun without a doubt.

[DOUGHBOYS]

It will certainly be interesting to see how it all plays out. We are now 12-15 years into this mess and NOTHING has been fixed. The Game has been tarnished, but I do believe MLB will get a handle on it...eventually. I also hope ALL the cheats get whats coming to them... the examples they have been setting for the young children who like and play sports and admire these players in all sports is truly disheartening. The list of cheats and liars in sports in the last 20-30 years is just amazing....

Remember too there are about 90 or so more player names that have never been released who failed HGH tests in 2003. MLB/others will drip those names as needed in the future. My thinking on why it has not been done, is their were too many high profile players on the list and the affects on the game would have been severe had they all been released at one time.

This is really a bad post.
In no way do you fault MLB. Instead, believing they will 'get a handle on it.'
The kids are running amuck in a school and you're blaming the kids.
Major League Baseball is the problem.
Not the players.
The players are like children. They'll get away with as much as they can get away with until it no longer benefits them.
To say that MLB is holding back names of players paints them as even larger varmints, even though you somehow think it'll 'affect the game severely'
The names don't get much bigger than ARod, do they?
Even in your best case scenario of MLB protecting it's game, they come off as enablers for these players.

If you want to fault the players, fine.
If you want to STOP the players, it's up to MLB.
They have not done it for 20 years, why you think they'll 'get a handle on it....eventually' is a mystery to me.

[Outlaw]

This is really a bad post.
In no way do you fault MLB. Instead, believing they will 'get a handle on it.'
The kids are running amuck in a school and you're blaming the kids.
Major League Baseball is the problem.
Not the players.
The players are like children. They'll get away with as much as they can get away with until it no longer benefits them.
To say that MLB is holding back names of players paints them as even larger varmints, even though you somehow think it'll 'affect the game severely'
The names don't get much bigger than ARod, do they?
Even in your best case scenario of MLB protecting it's game, they come off as enablers for these players.

If you want to fault the players, fine.
If you want to STOP the players, it's up to MLB.
They have not done it for 20 years, why you think they'll 'get a handle on it....eventually' is a mystery to me.[/quote]

Dough- I could say the same about your post... As with all varmits, what is the rationale for being one, survival my friend. As for motivation for all of them, MLB, the owners, the players, the agents, I got one word for you - MONEY. You are a purist Dough, you love the game and all its warts, but it must give you pause to see what is going on these days. I did'nt offer any fact or proof, just opinions. When MONEY is involved all bets are off as to why, motivation, etc... I guess I am a dreamer for hoping eventually MLB will get a handle on it... The players and all of them are not children, they are adults, they should start acting like it...

[DOUGHBOYS]

You are right about the money.
Let's pretend you are working for xxx employer.
The employer says, 'You can make $10 an hour, 40 hours a week, no vacations'
or, 'You can make $50 an hour if taking these vitamins.
If caught with these vitamins, you'll get 50 vacation days at full pay.
If caught twice, you'll get 100 days off at full pay.
If caught a third time, we have to let you go.'

Them's the choices right now.
So when a 2b is struggling at AA, his career on the line, and he sees teammates PED'ing which choice is to be made?
When a Major Leaguer gets hurt before his first big contract, which choice is to be made?

It is so easy for us to fault these players. We see the ego boosters like Bonds, ARod, and Clemens.
But Major League Baseball is granting a pass for this to happen.
The 50 day and 100 day 'penalties' don't hurt the player. It hurts their team.
To the player, it is merely 'strike one'.

So, yes it is about the money and MLB has made it that way.
Either be like the NFL and let your players become the gorillas that those players are.... or stop the problem.
Major League Baseball is doing neither.

[BK METS]

Truth be told, the T levels of Braun's "failed" test last year were so high that many doctors have stated that it might be physically impossible for it to have been a legit test. I think we can assume anything with regards to this clinic, but the Braun camp's explanation of the payment to this clinic, can be easily traced with regards to timing, in association to the Braun appeal. I don't think this tarnishes baseball at all. I believe it is actually going to be good for baseball. It shows that they actually want to do something about the problem, unlike other major sports.

Braun still gets drafted in the top 5. I would still take Cabrera and Trout before him, but the dropoff after that is enough to take a risk with Braun at 3.

[Outlaw]

You are right about the money.
Let's pretend you are working for xxx employer.
The employer says, 'You can make $10 an hour, 40 hours a week, no vacations'
or, 'You can make $50 an hour if taking these vitamins.
If caught with these vitamins, you'll get 50 vacation days at full pay.
If caught twice, you'll get 100 days off at full pay.
If caught a third time, we have to let you go.'

Them's the choices right now.
So when a 2b is struggling at AA, his career on the line, and he sees teammates PED'ing which choice is to be made?
When a Major Leaguer gets hurt before his first big contract, which choice is to be made?

It is so easy for us to fault these players. We see the ego boosters like Bonds, ARod, and Clemens.
But Major League Baseball is granting a pass for this to happen.
The 50 day and 100 day 'penalties' don't hurt the player. It hurts their team.
To the player, it is merely 'strike one'.

So, yes it is about the money and MLB has made it that way.
Either be like the NFL and let your players become the gorillas that those players are.... or stop the problem.
Major League Baseball is doing neither.[/quote

Agree 100% Dough!

[Navel Lint]

You are right about the money.
Let's pretend you are working for xxx employer.
The employer says, 'You can make $10 an hour, 40 hours a week, no vacations'
or, 'You can make $50 an hour if taking these vitamins.
If caught with these vitamins, you'll get 50 vacation days at full pay.
If caught twice, you'll get 100 days off at full pay.
If caught a third time, we have to let you go.'

Players do NOT receive pay if they are suspended for violating the PED policy.

As far as I know, the only exception to this rule was Marlon Bryd. Bryd had been released by Boston PRIOR to being suspended; therefore he had "completed" his contract with the Red Sox and was owed the remainder of his contractually agreed upon salary as "termination pay".

[DOUGHBOYS]

You are right about the money.
Let's pretend you are working for xxx employer.
The employer says, 'You can make $10 an hour, 40 hours a week, no vacations'
or, 'You can make $50 an hour if taking these vitamins.
If caught with these vitamins, you'll get 50 vacation days at full pay.
If caught twice, you'll get 100 days off at full pay.
If caught a third time, we have to let you go.'

Players do NOT receive pay if they are suspended for violating the PED policy.

As far as I know, the only exception to this rule was Marlon Bryd. Bryd had been released by Boston PRIOR to being suspended; therefore he had "completed" his contract with the Red Sox and was owed the remainder of his contractually agreed upon salary as "termination pay".

Hmmm, I thought they still got paid.
Where does that money go then?
Hidden payroll for the offending players team?

The point being that it is R&R for the player.
There is no loyalty ties to a team any more. Players have to be hurt by taking steroids, not their team as with present rules.
I heard a suggestion today where one violation would put a player back to first year of arbitration status. Having to wait another forced 3-4 years for free agency.
Second violation, banished.
Now, that is a little harsh, but it's the right train of thought. The penalty has to hurt the offender, not amuse him.

[BK METS]

All "steroid/PED" suspensions are without pay. In addition, a suspended player can be replaced on the active roster by another player. If a player is on the disabled list, the suspension is served while on the disabled list.

[DOUGHBOYS]

Does the team just keep the money?

[Outlaw]

Hmmm, I thought they still got paid.
Where does that money go then?
Hidden payroll for the offending players team?

The point being that it is R&R for the player.
There is no loyalty ties to a team any more. Players have to be hurt by taking steroids, not their team as with present rules.
I heard a suggestion today where one violation would put a player back to first year of arbitration status. Having to wait another forced 3-4 years for free agency.
Second violation, banished.
Now, that is a little harsh, but it's the right train of thought. The penalty has to hurt the offender, not amuse him.

[/quote]

Dough For Commish!

This whole PEDS mess is disgusting... this latest incident has trails all over the place, most of which MLB and the FEDS have known about for quite some time. Check out the characters who run ACES player agency and the stuff MLB has been investigating them on...and their ties to the names released so far. If someone wants to know what players might be coming next, look at thier player client list. They represent approx. 105 mostly MLB players....it's amazing how many of them have had injuries too... and almost all the names released or that have tested positive are represented by them....

[DOUGHBOYS]

In ARod's case, that would give the Yankees enough money for a decent free agent.

[Navel Lint]

You are right about the money.
Let's pretend you are working for xxx employer.
The employer says, 'You can make $10 an hour, 40 hours a week, no vacations'
or, 'You can make $50 an hour if taking these vitamins.
If caught with these vitamins, you'll get 50 vacation days at full pay.
If caught twice, you'll get 100 days off at full pay.
If caught a third time, we have to let you go.'

Players do NOT receive pay if they are suspended for violating the PED policy.

As far as I know, the only exception to this rule was Marlon Bryd. Bryd had been released by Boston PRIOR to being suspended; therefore he had "completed" his contract with the Red Sox and was owed the remainder of his contractually agreed upon salary as "termination pay".

Hmmm, I thought they still got paid.
Where does that money go then?
Hidden payroll for the offending players team?

The point being that it is R&R for the player.
There is no loyalty ties to a team any more. Players have to be hurt by taking steroids, not their team as with present rules.
I heard a suggestion today where one violation would put a player back to first year of arbitration status. Having to wait another forced 3-4 years for free agency.
Second violation, banished.
Now, that is a little harsh, but it's the right train of thought. The penalty has to hurt the offender, not amuse him.

It's easy to look at players like Melky Cabrera and say that they aren't feeling the "pain" of the suspension. Yes, the "R&R" cost him aprox $1.7M in salary, but he parlayed that 2/3 of a great season into a $16M contract. A great tradeoff for a guy like Melky that doesn't get endorsements and isn't a HOF candidate.

A 50 game suspension would hurt ARod much more. He'd lose aprox $8M in salary and he can pretty much kiss all his endorsement money goodbye as well. Now it might seem like $8M is a drop in the bucket to ARod, and it probably is, But there is an old saying; 'the more you make, the more you spend'. And the list of professional athletes that have declared bankruptcy after making millions of dollars is long and distinguished. So it would hurt some. And he can forget about a post-baseball income. Look at a guy like Jeter, he is going to make almost as much money after he retires as he makes now. That is not going to happen with ARod.

One way to punish players if they get suspended for PED's is if you could get a clause in their contracts that would allow for the teams to void said contract if the player gets suspended for PED's. That's not gonna happen though, and you can look at the Braun case as a reason why.

We have people writing on this thread that think Braun was definitely NOT guilty of taking PED's last season, yet he was just a flip of a coin away by an arbiter from being suspended for 50 days. The players are not going to put the balance of a multi-million dollar contract in the hands of what some believe is a flawed system.

[Daveclum]

It will certainly be interesting to see how it all plays out. We are now 12-15 years into this mess and NOTHING has been fixed. The Game has been tarnished, but I do believe MLB will get a handle on it...eventually. I also hope ALL the cheats get whats coming to them... the examples they have been setting for the young children who like and play sports and admire these players in all sports is truly disheartening. The list of cheats and liars in sports in the last 20-30 years is just amazing....

Remember too there are about 90 or so more player names that have never been released who failed HGH tests in 2003. MLB/others will drip those names as needed in the future. My thinking on why it has not been done, is their were too many high profile players on the list and the affects on the game would have been severe had they all been released at one time.

Do you feel the same way about all of the cheats from yesteryear who used greenies everyday?At least with steroids you just get the ability to work out more.You still have to work.The guys popping greenies just took a pill and ran on the field.

[rockitsauce]

Below is pic of Tom after he'd had enough of people accusing his mancrush of cheating

He brewwwwwwwer, him no cheat!

Tom is pissed.gif (6.36 KiB) Viewed 6156 times

[Outlaw]

It will certainly be interesting to see how it all plays out. We are now 12-15 years into this mess and NOTHING has been fixed. The Game has been tarnished, but I do believe MLB will get a handle on it...eventually. I also hope ALL the cheats get whats coming to them... the examples they have been setting for the young children who like and play sports and admire these players in all sports is truly disheartening. The list of cheats and liars in sports in the last 20-30 years is just amazing....

Remember too there are about 90 or so more player names that have never been released who failed HGH tests in 2003. MLB/others will drip those names as needed in the future. My thinking on why it has not been done, is their were too many high profile players on the list and the affects on the game would have been severe had they all been released at one time.

Do you feel the same way about all of the cheats from yesteryear who used greenies everyday?At least with steroids you just get the ability to work out more.You still have to work.The guys popping greenies just took a pill and ran on the field.

A cheat is a cheat, I dont like or would I condone illegal or wrong behavior by anyone at anytime. You sound like you condone Steroids. These cheats that exist today I can thank for our out of control ticket prices, TV packages, etc... Everyone has choices... Who do you think pays the 1/2 Billion dollars to Arod, Braun and Gio. 3 players, 1/2 billion dollars.... Today, I dont know if any of this crap is true, but i do know a 1/2 billion dollars buys a lot of high powered Attorneys, Damage control experts and marketing repair firms... not to mention PEDS. Where there is smoke, there is fire and there's just way too much smoke with this mess.


This PEDS mess has a long shelf life I'm afraid... MLB now working with numerous Gov't agencies, like FBI, DEA and many others. The News org who broke the story say that they have reems of documents and information that will all come out over the next few weeks. There are also other so called "clinics" being looked at all over. As for fantasy, at least there is almost 2 more months to find out more.

[Navel Lint]

A cheat is a cheat, I dont like or would I condone illegal or wrong behavior by anyone at anytime. You sound like you condone Steroids. These cheats that exist today I can thank for our out of control ticket prices, TV packages, etc... Everyone has choices... Who do you think pays the 1/2 Billion dollars to Arod, Braun and Gio. 3 players, 1/2 billion dollars...

We as fans of course do pay for the players salary.

But, if I read your comment correctly, you seem to imply this age-old myth that higher salaries mean higher ticket prices and tv fees for the customer, when in fact it's the other way around. More revenue from higher ticket prices and higher tv fees drives salaries higher.

Most simply put.....demand for the ticket, drives the price of the ticket.

If the Cubs cut their team payroll by 50% next season, would they cut ticket prices by 50%, or even 30 or 20 percent? The answer is no, not with literally 100,000+ names on the season ticket waiting list. The Cubs (and all other teams) price their tickets at sell points that will maximize revenue. Obviously in markets like Chicago and New York those price points will be higher than places like KC or Tampa for many varied reasons.

So why do they pay $100 million plus salaries? To help maintain demand in their product; which doesn't necessarily always coincide with putting the best team on the field. Take the LA Angels' signing of A Pujols last year. You could make a case that signing Pujols was Not the best thing to do from a purely Baseball standpoint (not a great case, but a case). But from a business viewpoint, name one free agent last winter that could create the attendance draw that Albert did.

[Daveclum]

I am just amazed at the holier then thou attitude.In line with a previous post.If any of us were offered 10 million dollars to take a pill everyday we would all take the money.Some of us would ask for two.Show me a clean era.Some great players were kept out of the hall this year.They were the best of that era.By the way.Try to get a fair appeal if you are a player.MLB fired the Braun mediater for having the nerve to rule against them.

[DOUGHBOYS]

I am just amazed at the holier then thou attitude.In line with a previous post.If any of us were offered 10 million dollars to take a pill everyday we would all take the money.Some of us would ask for two.Show me a clean era.Some great players were kept out of the hall this year.They were the best of that era.By the way.Try to get a fair appeal if you are a player.MLB fired the Braun mediater for having the nerve to rule against them.

Nail on the head, Dave.
For some reason, the general public wants to regard and place baseball players to higher standards.
We shouldn't.
Every day, folks are getting fired for stealing, showing up to work drunk, or failing a drug test. These folks are not tarred and feathered publicly like baseball players. It's just plain silly to want our entertainment not only be great on the field, but to have morals that are irrefutable too.
And I may be wrong in that it is even a morals issue. We don't know the percentage of folks who use these things. It could be a case of 'keeping up with the Jones's'.

Things have changed. I like to think of baseball as an 'old school' guy. I can't any more. Free agency has changed that.
The phrase, 'He's a real team guy' has been replaced by, 'He's a good clubhouse' guy.
'Giving ourself up to move over a teammate' is almost gone from the game
And the days of Chipper Jones, Derek Jeter, and Todd Helton staying with and being loyal to one team are almost gone.
Baseball has become an individual game disguised as a team game.
It's pompous of us to expect players to excel and keep clean while those he competes against or are teammates with, are not.
When stiffer penalties are imposed we will see less PED's, it is that simple.
Till then, I won't judge.