Omaha South

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Mon Dec 20, 2010 2:48 am

Originally posted by LONG GONE:

DOUGHBOYS, reffering to the Kevin Towers post.You where wrong on firing the Cincinnati GM a year ago. You where wrong about Ubaldo Jimenez.

You will be wrong about the KC GM. Kelly, I'm wrong about a lot of things. Since I'm older than you, and post more, a lot more 'wrongs' than you.

Bringing up my past 'wrongs' doesn't make your case stronger.

One thing is for sure, Kansas City fans, AGAIN, will be treated to a minor league product this year.

It is silly to think that you or I will be 'right'.

Long after Moore is gone, KC could find success, and I'll get a post from you saying that Moore planted the seed.

Again, Moore is great with the farm system.

It doesn't excuse the fact that he has put nothing but mediocrity on the field during his tenure.

He just traded their leading home run hitter and most Kansas City fans are happy about it.

A player that he was bamboozled into trading FOR.

For the life of me, I can't remember one on-field transaction Moore has made, that has benefitted the Royals.

[ December 20, 2010, 09:24 AM: Message edited by: DOUGHBOYS ]

headhunters · Post by **headhunters** » Mon Dec 20, 2010 3:39 am

dough- we agree on dayton no moore but disagree on definition of " mediocre". agree- it is in eye of beholder; still; with records of 2006= 62-100, '07= 69-93, '08= 75-87, '09= 65- 97, and 10= 67-95 for a 338-472 record and .417 "winning" % i would humbly submit their (his) record is AWFUL not poor, not mediocre- awful. and about to get moore so.

LONG GONE · Post by **LONG GONE** » Mon Dec 20, 2010 3:53 am

The farm system is the only thing that matters here. That's what he has going in the right direction. Do you think the Brewers would be without there system?

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Mon Dec 20, 2010 4:19 am

Originally posted by LONG GONE:

The farm system is the only thing that matters here.You can't single out one move that has benefitted Kansas City either, huh?

Put it in this context Kelly.

I would want Dayton Moore planning my kids college future.

Day to day, through the first 18 years, I wouldn't let him make one decision for them.

Chest Rockwell · Post by **Chest Rockwell** » Mon Dec 20, 2010 4:21 am

Serious question here Kelly. How do you see them piecing together the pitching to be succesful? I obviously do not know their system like you do.

From what I know Montgomery is a very solid prospect. Currently you have a staff with less than 3 pitchers you would want on a contending team. One of them Soria will be very expensive or in his walk year when they start to contend.

Where does the pitching come from? I am sure there are a couple of more arms that could help on the farm but that will not be enough IMO.

On offense even if you add 3 complete studs it will still take 2-3 complimentary players and probably one more impact player through a trade/free agency/or Billy Butler staying and continuing to progress. My biggest concern if I were a Royals fan is Moore has in no way demonstrated the ability to do it.

JamesH · Post by **JamesH** » Mon Dec 20, 2010 5:11 am

Originally posted by DOUGHBOYS:

quote:Originally posted by LONG GONE:

DOUGHBOYS, reffering to the Kevin Towers post.You where wrong on firing the Cincinnati GM a year ago. You where wrong about Ubaldo Jimenez.

You will be wrong about the KC GM. Kelly, I'm wrong about a lot of things. Since I'm older than you, and post more, a lot more 'wrongs' than you.

Bringing up my past 'wrongs' doesn't make your case stronger.

One thing is for sure, Kansas City fans, AGAIN, will be treated to a minor league product this year.

It is silly to think that you or I will be 'right'.

Long after Moore is gone, KC could find success, and I'll get a post from you saying that Moore planted the seed.

Again, Moore is great with the farm system.

It doesn't excuse the fact that he has put nothing but mediocrity on the field during his tenure.

He just traded their leading home run hitter and most Kansas City fans are happy about it.

A player that he was bamboozled into trading FOR.

For the life of me, I can't remember one on-field transaction Moore has made, that has benefitted the Royals. [/QUOTE]Selectin Joakim Soria in the Rule 5 draft is a feather in Moore's cap. Also picking up Wilson Betemit last year really worked out. But your point remains. Moore's major league record is quite horrendous. Give it a couple of years though and those minor leaguers might turn your opinion of Moore upside down.

KJ Duke · Post by **KJ Duke** » Mon Dec 20, 2010 5:46 am

Originally posted by LONG GONE:

KJ Duke

I would've fired him the moment he decided to re-sign Brian Giles.

Thats when you would have fired him! Well for that anyone should've been fired!

Cocktails and Dreams · Post by **Cocktails and Dreams** » Wed Dec 29, 2010 11:42 am

Originally posted by RoundTrippers:

same old song n dance for royals...doughy right...long gone and cocktail have egg on their face...it was an opportunity for the royals to improve and they just went back 3 more steps...shame shame!!! i am more than willing to apply for GM, nevermind i am overqualified!! What in the world do I have egg on my face about? I was always and still am very much correct on the subject. Moore has done an unbelievable job building this and the Royals will be good in 2 to 3 years, just as the plan has been all along. The one with egg on his face is you, stating such a foolish thing, when the plan is not even here yet. It is idiotic to say anyone is wrong about something that is not even close to being determined yet.

[ December 29, 2010, 05:58 PM: Message edited by: Cocktails and Dreams ]

Cocktails and Dreams · Post by **Cocktails and Dreams** » Wed Dec 29, 2010 11:45 am

Originally posted by KJ Duke:

quote:Originally posted by Cocktails and Dreams:

As I die hard Royals fan, I disagree with almost all of this, the same way I feel you were completely wrong this summer when it was discussed. He has done one hell of a job building this thing. Should be fun soon. Cannot wait. Hopefully Dayton keeps it rolling. No way in hell they would be where they are without him. The goal is to win championships and he has them positioned to be damn good soon. Best minor league system and it is not even close. It is awesome at the top and very deep. Questioning Dayton is so wrong, I cannot even believe it. And I usually agree with what you have to say, but not on this subject at all. Dough makes a lot of good points - to which you say questioning the GM is wrong - although he seems to agree with your only argument, building a good farm system.

Do we assume you like the Francouer, Jose Guillen, Kendall, Meche deals? None of those looked good even without the benefit of hindsight. I think he's spot on. [/QUOTE]Those moves make no difference to me at all. The Royals were not going to contend anyway during that time. Were they good deals? No, ofcourse not. Does it make any difference at all? No, ofcourse not.

The point is to try and win a championship. He is stocking the system big time to try and do that. What happens up in KC while these guys are getting ready to play makes no difference at all. So while you say he makes good points, I disagree. They are insignificant points. The only thing that matters is what happens when all these guys get to KC. Can the Royals contend in 3 to 4 years from now and for years to come after that? That is what matters.

Chest Rockwell · Post by **Chest Rockwell** » Wed Dec 29, 2010 12:31 pm

Originally posted by Cocktails and Dreams:

quote:Originally posted by KJ Duke:

quote:Originally posted by Cocktails and Dreams:

As I die hard Royals fan, I disagree with almost all of this, the same way I feel you were completely wrong this summer when it was discussed. He has done one hell of a job building this thing. Should be fun soon. Cannot wait. Hopefully Dayton keeps it rolling. No way in hell they would be where they are without him. The goal is to win championships and he has them positioned to be damn good soon. Best minor league system and it is not even close. It is awesome at the top and very deep. Questioning Dayton is so wrong, I cannot even believe it. And I usually agree with what you have to say, but not on this subject at all. Dough makes a lot of good points - to which you say questioning the GM is wrong - although he seems to agree with your only argument, building a good farm system.

Do we assume you like the Francouer, Jose Guillen, Kendall, Meche deals? None of those looked good even without the benefit of hindsight. I think he's spot on. [/QUOTE]Those moves make no difference to me at all. The Royals were not going to contend anyway during that time. Were they good deals? No, ofcourse not. Does it make any difference at all? No, ofcourse not.

The point is to try and win a championship. He is stocking the system big time to try and do that. What happens up in KC while these guys are getting ready to play makes no difference at all. So while you say he makes good points, I disagree. They are insignificant points. The only thing that matters is what happens when all these guys get to KC. Can the Royals contend in 3 to 4 years from now and for years to come after that? That is what matters. [/QUOTE]Throwing away somewhere around 20 percent of your operating budget is no big deal. I wish you were the chairman of my board for 4 days a year.

On a serious note- here is where I am dumbfounded by your logic. Good small market teams tend to turn those types of contracts in to prospects and draft picks.

What do I know I actually thought the Meche signing was a solid one. Guillen so- so. I like everyone in the continental US except for about 5 people hated the Kendall and Betancourt signing.

LONG GONE · Post by **LONG GONE** » Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:01 pm

Chest your board would give you a raise if you acquired all of the undervalued assets that the Royals have.

Chest Rockwell · Post by **Chest Rockwell** » Wed Dec 29, 2010 2:05 pm

Originally posted by LONG GONE:

Chest your board would give you a raise if you acquired all of the undervalued assets that the Royals have. please list one.. not trying to be a smart guy I honestly see none that meet that definition. Thanks

Edwards Kings · Post by **Edwards Kings** » Fri Dec 31, 2010 12:46 am

Originally posted by Cocktails and Dreams:

Can the Royals contend in 3 to 4 years from now and for years to come after that? That is what matters. Agreed and I applaud how you stick up for the home team, but I respectfully must state that this is the great flaw in your logic in my opinion.

IF...enough of those prospects come up at roughly the same time so as have a combined impact.

IF...enough of those prospects collectively mature fulfilling major league expectations. Each farm system is full of "former" prospects.

Many teams have those same problems, but for KC the SECOND BIGGEST IF is if the Royals can afford to keep enough of those prospects through even a portion of the free agent years, much less through arbitration (addressing your "years to come" wish).

The biggest and most important IF is whether or not the GM is savvy enough not just to stock the farm system, but to see it through at the major-league level. In this I have serious doubts based on past performance.

I would love it if he were because I am always rooting for the small-market teams as opposed to the mega-noughts like the Yanks, BoSox, et al. Unfortunately, I feel the KC-way right now is to always promise that the upside is only a few years away, but then never seem to get there. Season tickets to Omaha anyone?

[ December 31, 2010, 06:48 AM: Message edited by: Edwards Kings ]

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Fri Dec 31, 2010 3:09 am

Good point, Wayne.

Once the kids come up and play for a couple of years, they become another outlet for teams like the Yankees and Red Sox.

Omaha gets the best of this deal. Folks in that community can watch the best non-MLB players for the next few years at good prices. Royals fans will pay Major League prices to watch them co-mingle with guys like Betancourt, Melky, and Bruce Chen.

Royal followers are thinking the cavalry is coming. A few of these kids like Greinke, Butler, and Soria will blossom, some won't. The ones that blossom won't mind being traded to a contending team. Like Greinke, Soria, and Butler.

Same vicious circle until Royals management realizes that a few of the players on the field NOW do count and want to stay to change the cycle.

Chest Rockwell · Post by **Chest Rockwell** » Fri Dec 31, 2010 4:47 am

The ironic thing is the more these 2 guys defend Dayton Moore the madder I get at him. It reminds me what great fans the Royals have and how he is blowing it for them. To me the bottom line is they need a large portion of these prospects to pan out. They need 2-3 of them to be stars. They need Dayton to put the complimentary pieces in place. I do not see it happening mainly because of my last point.

LONG GONE · Post by **LONG GONE** » Fri Dec 31, 2010 8:43 am

I'm not a Royals fan.

LONG GONE · Post by **LONG GONE** » Fri Dec 31, 2010 9:06 am

If they make the playoffs in 2013 or 2014 am I right and will all you folks be wrong? I want to draw a line in the sand today?

Edwards Kings · Post by **Edwards Kings** » Fri Dec 31, 2010 11:00 am

Originally posted by LONG GONE:

If they make the playoffs in 2013 or 2014 am I right and will all you folks be wrong? I want to draw a line in the sand today? Anything can happen (See Texas Rangers vs SF Giants in the 2010 World Series), but yes, a playoff spot in 2013 or 2014 I will admit that I was half wrong and you were half right. But only half. Your point was building for a consistent future. Say two play-offs in the next five years, then you get the clean sweep.

LONG GONE · Post by **LONG GONE** » Fri Dec 31, 2010 11:19 am

If they go to the playoffs I'm only half right and you are half right. You are bashing this man and you would consider all the bashing folks half right. With these condition you will never wrong about anything.

LONG GONE · Post by **LONG GONE** » Fri Dec 31, 2010 11:30 am

This post started with the firing of Dayton Moore. Now he has 50% chance to go to the playoff in the next 4 and we will all be right. Give me a break.

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Sat Jan 01, 2011 3:36 am

Kelly, by the time the Royals are competitive in 2014, Dayton Moore will have been in the job for eight years. EIGHT YEARS! Two terms of a presidency. Presidents have waged wars, abolished slavery, and gotten us through depressions in less time.

Can you imagine a coach or GM being hired and giving fans the motto, 'Give me eight years and your team will finally be competitive'?

Fortunately for Moore, his contract was extended to 2014.

Since you are baiting us, and relying on these kids to all blossom at once with no help from ownership and Moore's poor Major League level management, I'll take the bait.

I'll give you the 2013 timeline and say that the Royals not only do not get into a new, more easily obtainable playoff spot, with a new system, but have a hard time cracking .500

There, now throw this in my face in three years, if you remember and are correct. You'll need to, by then, I'll be three years older and my memory of it, like your monicker, will be long gone.

[ January 01, 2011, 09:51 AM: Message edited by: DOUGHBOYS ]

DiamondKing · Post by **DiamondKing** » Sat Jan 01, 2011 3:43 am

In three years I will still be drafting Alex Gordan thinking this is the year he breaks out.

LONG GONE · Post by **LONG GONE** » Sat Jan 01, 2011 8:05 am

Playoffs could happen in 2013. To be safe it is most likely back to back season in 2014 and 2015.

Raskol · Post by **Raskol** » Fri Feb 04, 2011 10:24 am

I think it's time to rev up this engine again now that Dayton has made the brilliant move of signing Pedro Feliz.

So much for my Moose love affair.

headhunters · Post by **headhunters** » Fri Feb 04, 2011 10:54 am

you can tell they don't want mous up this year. i think they have about 20 crappy 3rd basemen between him and the job- hoping one of them does something so the clock doesn't start until 2012