Lets Stop Switching Pitchers Midweek in 2012

Rainiers · Post by **Rainiers** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 5:24 pm

Originally posted by DOUGHBOYS:

I don't think of those as limitations, Robert.

First, the dl rule is eliminated.

B, if a pitcher throws an inning or two now, he is dled or doesn't pitch the rest of the week. The only difference between that and what we have now is the manipulation of the rule.

3, I've often wondered if a pitcher has a two week start why we are locked in to both starts. In a lot of ways it doesn't make sense. Perhaps it is the opposite of streaming, but I think it would

provide for a level field of strategy.

Maybe something for everybody.

Just thoughts... 1. Is a good thing..

B., Don't quite get this, if a player is hurt while pitching early in the week, and is on dl by Friday, don't you think this a situation where we would want pitcher substitution if we have it at all?

3. you've turned me around here. lots of times I have wished I could go for just one start for a two start pitcher.

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 5:32 pm

Originally posted by Rainiers:

B., Don't quite get this, if a player is hurt while pitching early in the week, and is on dl by Friday, don't you think this a situation where we would want pitcher substitution if we have it at all? I think we could play the rest of the week without that hurt pitcher or a replacement.

Niese left the game early today, yet he still got a win and good stats.

Danks left the game early as well. He didn't have an opportunity for a win, but that'll be an even playing field for everybody, since it could happen to any pitcher.

This rule would also help out on rainouts. If your pitcher was scheduled to face one team midweek and due to rainouts faces an unexpected tougher team Fri-Mon, he can be replaced by somebody on your bench.

[ June 25, 2011, 11:35 PM: Message edited by: DOUGHBOYS ]

Rainiers · Post by **Rainiers** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 5:55 pm

Originally posted by Money:

I to went to dinner and enjoyed watching some baseball tonight. One last post to comment on a number of things that transpired (in this thread) since I left.

1. I'm not in favor of any mid season rule change. Simply stated I would like to see it changed in 2012.

2. KJ you decided to belittle others that had an opposing viewpoint, I thought than wasn't very cool. The only real point you ever made was that you figured it out and that the software could be manipulated to your advantage contrary to what most

perceived the rules to be. Good for you (GFY)

3. Someone brought up the By and On word (in this thread). Here's how I interpret it, as it's officially written. The word By is critical in addressing when a pitcher has to be on the DL list to be eligible to be moved out of the position, 12:01 am, ok but that doesn't address the point at hand and that's lineup submission.

3.2 The word ON is used to say that changes can be made ON Friday. It is as written and is specific to pitchers. Some onlwant to read what or see whatever they want to.

4. Someone said earlier that this has not been a fun week. I couldn't agree more. To realize that you believe that the competition hasn't been fair is tough to take. If all the weeks were like this most wouldn't play. This is a good reason not to visit the boards. But if you didn't you'd continue to be at competitive disadvantage for the remainder of 2011.

As far as the NFBC position goes, I've been around since last baseball season only. The boards have been monitored almost

non-stop. This week they are not. Greg hasn't done a single post (and Tom very few) on this board or the NFFC board since this came to light. There are legal ramifications with the way this rule is written and executed via the software.

Bottom line is this has been beaten to death and I'm the biggest culprit. I promise to stop, until we hear from the NFBC. Not looking for a rule change. Simply an acknowledgment that the contest has not been fair to everyone involved this year. I'm 99.9% sure that the NFBC did not know that the software could be manipulated to change the course of the competition to conflict with the ways the rules are written. Thanks for listening

to my point of view.

Good night and God Bless all of you and the NFBC (I truly mean that) Joe,

Thanks for your opinion on the rule change.

Also, it sounds to me that you missed Greg's post on the subject from early this week. He jumped in right away and ruled early that thie way the software was currently allowing the midweek pitchers changes early was going to continue. so I don't think its fair that you say he hasn't responded. He also said he would be traveling the rest of the week and out if touch alot, so give I'd give him a break.

Also, I agree with you that this is not right, and it was a bad call on Greg's part, but the umpire has ruled and all umpires get a

call wrong now and then. it is all part of the game, and sometimes it is best to stop yelling and begin to think about your next at bat instead.

P..S. before you get carried away with your challenges, you might reread the rule that says all Commisioner's rulings are final...

[ June 26, 2011, 12:00 AM: Message edited by: Rainiers ]

Rainiers · Post by **Rainiers** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 6:24 pm

Originally posted by DOUGHBOYS:

quote:Originally posted by Rainiers:

B., Don't quite get this, if a player is hurt while pitching early in the week, and is on dl by Friday, don't you think this a situation where we would want pitcher substitution if we have it at all? I think we could play the rest of the week without that hurt pitcher or a replacement.

Niese left the game early today, yet he still got a win and good stats.

Danks left the game early as well. He didn't have an opportunity for a win, but that'll be an even playing field for everybody, since it could happen to any pitcher.

This rule would also help out on rainouts. If your pitcher was scheduled to face one team midweek and due to rainouts faces an unexpected tougher team Fri-Mon, he can be replaced by somebody on your bench. [/QUOTE]I don't know. I guess I prefer a game with less mid week homework; with your suggested rule change I would need to stay up on how my matchups were changing throughout the week to really be on top of my game. I keep getting back to my personal

preference of simply dumping the midweek pitcher switches all together.

This is not to say I wouldn't support your idea. it now seems to me the next best thing to no rule at all.

Dub · Post by **Dub** » Sun Jun 26, 2011 2:41 am

Originally posted by Rainiers:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by DOUGHBOYS:

[qb] I don't think of those as limitations, Robert.

B., Don't quite get this, if a player is hurt while pitching early in the week, and is on dl by Friday, don't you think this a situation where we would want pitcher substitution if we have it at all?

A pitcher that gets hurt on a Friday and comes out early does not get a DL replacement.

in 2012- I vote for the Dough rule.

Rainiers · Post by **Rainiers** » Sun Jun 26, 2011 6:50 am

Like I said earlier, I am good with the Dough rule, it is lightyears better than what we have now.

The main thing is that it seems that a clear majority do not lwant the status quo to continue into 2012.

The Dough rule, or drop the midweek substitution for pitchers, we just have to remind Greg this off season not to drop the ball on this one.

Sebadiah23 · Post by **Sebadiah23** » Sun Jun 26, 2011 7:03 pm

I believe last year, with Fanexpletive, you could make your change in advance- you didn't need to wait until Friday, but unless your pitcher was still on the DL at 12:00 in the afternoon on Friday, that's what I meant by "on", then Fanball automatically backed out the change.

Because it was so logical, we never heard a word from anyone complaining. Because the complaint would be "Hey, why can't I bend the rules anymore?"

So, I guess they did one thing right afterall. At least that's what I remember.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:47 am

We should always look at the rules at season's end and tweak them to make the NFBC a better game. Heck, that's what we've done every year and I think our game is better now than it was in 2004. The Friday hitters' switches have taken some of the luck out of the game that we had in 2004 and put more strategy into the hands of the players. Same with KDS/3RR and other small tweaks.

The intent of the DL rule was to allow NFBC owners the chance to remove players who either suddenly landed on the DL early in the week after teams said they were "day-to-day" or to move them out for weekend games if they got hurt early in the week and landed on the DL before Friday morning. It was really set up to prevent teams from taking unforeseen zeroes for the week.

The intent of the rule prevented some unforeseen problems with hitters, which led owners to advise us to tweak the rule and just allow hitter moves on the weekends. We did that.

So now we have a DL rule that is set up to help owners replace pitchers for the weekend who get hurt or placed on the DL during the week, but it's not set up just for that. And that is something we either need to tweak or eliminate. Someone tell me, have there been instances where a pitcher was hurt during the week and DL'd or was "day-to-day" and then went on the DL on Tuesday or Wednesday after being scheduled to start? If so and it happens a lot, then the DL rule for pitchers is working.

But if that part isn't happening like we had planned initially (mainly with hitters in mind), then maybe the DL rule for pitchers isn't doing the job I initially intended. So then we need to decide if not addressing pitchers being on the DL is the right move or whether we just need to tweak the rule to prevent the loophole I've allowed. And again, this is my doing not STATS'. This is not anything we anticipated as a group and by that I mean me, Tom and all of you players. This rule has been in effect three years now and this has not been addressed like it has this week before. And no, we did not set this up any differently on Fanball.com nor did they back out moves at anytime.

So the thread started here by Robert with the topic has merit and it's a worthy discussion, although it's hard to tell here. I will gladly consider ways to tweak the pitchers' situation we currently have and possibly eliminate it all together starting in 2012 if needed. Maybe we just need the Friday hitters' setup we currently have; or maybe we can still make the pitchers' DL rule work the way I had intended involving players GOING ON the DL during the week, not coming OFF THE DL.

Even though I took a mini family vacation late last week, I've read all the posts. I know the strong feelings. I understand the arguments. I get it and even though this situation hasn't presented itself very often this year, we saw two cases last week where it did. Now it's our job to let everyone know how the system is set up so that if you get a similar situation you know how to act. That will be done in the next NFBC newsletter and most going forward. For 2012, we as a group need to decide how to change the pitchers' rule for the better of the game.

That's my focus and in informing our users about the setup. Thanks for the feedback and the suggestions to make the game better.

Sack · Post by **Sack** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 5:08 am

Greg:

The Friday D/L Rule has merit. The problem, from the start, is that because of many factors outside the control of the NFBC and/or Stats it doesn't seem to me that it can be applied fairly and in the spirit it was designed.

I will try to list a few examples.

Over the last few weeks both Tommy Hanson & Roy Oswalt were scheduled to pitch during the week. Hanson was an announced scratch and Oswalt pitched two innings on a Thursday and left the game. Both situations were obvious D/L situations. However, because the teams didn't actually place the player on the D/L by OUR deadline - those hoping to employ the Friday D/L rule found out they could not make the switch. At least Oswalt pitched, we knew all week Hanson would not yet we were helpless to make the change.

The loopholes....... Last week was a classic example. Brandon Beachy & Jake Peavy were listed on the D/L. Both pitchers were listed to be activated during the week and start ONE time. When a pitcher comes off the D/L, the team normally waits until the day of the game to activate. Therefore, from the time the lineups LOCK on Monday at 6:55pm until that pitcher in your lineup loses the D/L tag you can go in and remove him. ( because at 6:55pm on a Monday we are making changes for Friday ) Knowing that the D/L pitcher is "suppose" to only appear in one game, if you have a fresh arm on the bench scheduled to pitch you can put him in and give yourself a double start. MURPHY'S LAW - By doing this, you can easily sub in a pitcher for the weekend that gets bombed. There are no guarantee's. This week, after Danks took a line drive off the head, Jake Peavy jumped in and pitched great in an unexpected relief role. Those that THOUGHT they were gaining an advantage, lost the weekend Peavy Stats.

You want a suggestion to cure this? Don't allow PITCHER changes through the software until Friday. The loophole of gaining two starts will be removed. But, I promise something else will bounce up with this rule.

So many ODD things have taken place going back 4 seasons, I can't remember all the ins & outs.

Another use of the Friday D/L rule is to "miss" a dangerous start early in the week and only toss a pitcher from your bench on the weekend. Does it always work? No. Another example.

Two weeks ago Carlos Carrasco was scheduled for a two start week. First start on a Monday in Yankee Stadium and over the weekend his second start was against the Pirates. If you didn't have a D/L pitcher on your bench and saw this possibility you could grab a $1D/L'd arm during FAAB and start that pitcher early in the week. Once lineups lock, in goes Carrasco for the weekend Pirate start and you miss the Yankee stadium start. Of course, Carlos shutout the Yanks 1-0 so it can backfire. In this instance, even if you lock the players out until Friday you can still take advantage of the loophole.

You can also use a D/L'd pitcher if you are undecided on some of your weekend pitchers. Hence, you can buy 4 days and make a decision on Friday. This only works if you have a pitcher on the D/L that you KNOW is not going to be activated.

My stance is that if this remains in place, we will always find ways to work around the system to gain an edge. If those I'm playing can access this, I'd be dumb to not give myself every possible chance to gain the highest stats. Therefore, it is my belief that you should remove the Friday D/L completely for 2012 and leave the Friday switches in place for hitters. I have offered some ways to help stop the changes, but something new or unusual always pops up. The Jake Peavy weekend is a perfect example. Hope that helps.

[ June 27, 2011, 11:20 AM: Message edited by: Sack ]

Dub · Post by **Dub** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 5:53 am

I think the Peavy and Carasco examples show that its not a loophole but a strategy tool like any other. Hell like Sack suggests, you can pay for its use with an faab pick up for $1 and the results are always fortuitous...meaning you win some and you lose some.

The main issue against its use is perception, as it appears to be underhanded. Maybe we just need to communicate better?

Fourslot40 · Post by **Fourslot40** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 6:09 am

It's not about perception. This is the rule as it is written -

Team owners also are allowed to remove a pitcher (or pitchers) who is officially on the DL from their starting lineup and replace him with a pitcher from their reserve roster on Fridays.

Key word is "on" Fridays. I interpret this as "if" a pitcher is on the DL for the weekend, you can remove him by Friday. The rule was not designed to be able to remove a healthy pitcher for the weekend.

Dub · Post by **Dub** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 6:22 am

Originally posted by Fourslot40:

It's not about perception. This is the rule as it is written -

Team owners also are allowed to remove a pitcher (or pitchers) who is officially on the DL from their starting lineup and replace him with a pitcher from their reserve roster on Fridays.

Key word is "on" Fridays. I interpret this as "if" a pitcher is on the DL for the weekend, you can remove him by Friday. The rule was not designed to be able to remove a healthy pitcher for the weekend. You're looking at phraseology without intent and that is your perception.

For example:

"You can't hang a man with a wooden leg in Texas"

Does that mean that you can't hang a man with one leg or does it mean that hanging a person would be easier using a "rope" that is flexible, rather then a piece of wood that does not bend?

The point is you are not considering the intent of that written rule. The intent is what Greg posted three up from this one. It was his intent, so its safe to conclude its accuracy.

The sentence that gives you a problem was poorly constructed - simple as that.

[ June 27, 2011, 12:23 PM: Message edited by: Dub ]

Fourslot40 · Post by **Fourslot40** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 7:36 am

[ June 27, 2011, 02:26 PM: Message edited by: Fourslot40 ]

Cocktails and Dreams · Post by **Cocktails and Dreams** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 7:43 am

When the amount of times people are using the rule for screwy intentions outweighs by far the times when the rule gets used for how it was designed then it is a silly rule. There is no need for it. Personally, I like the rules accross the street far more with twice a week pitching and batting changes. If this is a weekly game I think you should just deal with the consequences of what happens to both hitters and pitchers. If a biweekly game then all posistions should be biweekly. I see no reason to split the difference. But it has been stated plenty the pitching will never change over here so that is not an option. Even though it allows you to use your entire staff more productively the other way. But in any event the DL pitching rule is a horrible one with the nonsense it is currently allowing.

Raskol · Post by **Raskol** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 8:27 am

Originally posted by Cocktails and Dreams:

When the amount of times people are using the rule for screwy intentions outweighs by far the times when the rule gets used for how it was designed then it is a silly rule. There is no need for it. Personally, I like the rules accross the street far more with twice a week pitching and batting changes. If this is a weekly game I think you should just deal with the consequences of what happens to both hitters and pitchers. If a biweekly game then all posistions should be biweekly. I see no reason to split the difference. But it has been stated plenty the pitching will never change over here so that is not an option. Even though it allows you to use your entire staff more productively the other way. But in any event the DL pitching rule is a horrible one with the nonsense it is currently allowing. Amen.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 9:55 am

Originally posted by Cocktails and Dreams:

Personally, I like the rules accross the street far more with twice a week pitching and batting changes. Chad, I appreciate your feedback on this matter and all matters, and I think we know you like streaming pitchers rules. It works to your advantage as a fulltime fantasy player. However, the NFBC will not be going to a streaming pitchers game as long as I'm around for many reasons. I don't believe that's the way our customers want the Main Event to go either. Maybe a satellite league could be set up that way and heck maybe a satellite league with daily transactions is doable if demand warrants it. But not for the Main Event or any of our other national contests.

As for the game across the street, we all know what is going on over there. It's a reference I wouldn't have expected from you of all people, but I get it. This is our game and if we need to tighten up any rules we will. Honestly, many of the posts have taken me aback, but maybe my skin got softer in the last few months. Maybe I needed a good stint at the whipping post to get that leather-skin back that I had last year.

Thanks for hardening it a bit for me today.

Fourslot40 · Post by **Fourslot40** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:03 am

These message boards have a way of pulling you in and peeling you out of character. Since Saturday, I've made plenty of aggressive and opinionated comments against this loophole. I probably doubled my post total in three days. I was upset with the situation and not anyone in particular. Sometimes, I latch on to something and can't let it go until I win. It's silly. But, the way this thing grew is just crazy and I contributed to it. I was an idiot. For that I apologize to Greg, KJ and others that I disagreed with. All of this nonsense makes our organization look bad and certainly doesn't help promote the business to prospective customers.

Honestly, this contest is awesome. It's all I do in my free time. Greg is a class act. He takes on alot. He is a big reason why I invest in his business. You will rarely find someone with the honesty, integrity and passion for a customer base. I feel terrible for adding to his stress level.

I'm going to take some time off these boards. It's too stressful. I'll check in occasionally for any news. I'll hope to meet many of you over the years. Good luck all.

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:13 am

Originally posted by Fourslot40:

These message boards have a way of pulling you in and peeling you out of character. Since Saturday, I've made plenty of aggressive and opinionated comments against this loophole. I probably doubled my post total in three days. I was upset with the situation and not anyone in particular. Sometimes, I latch on to something and can't let it go until I win. It's silly. But, the way this thing grew is just crazy and I contributed to it. I was an idiot. For that I apologize to Greg, KJ and others that I disagreed with. All of this nonsense makes our organization look bad and certainly doesn't help promote the business to prospective customers.

Honestly, this contest is awesome. It's all I do in my free time. Greg is a class act. He takes on alot. He is a big reason why I invest in his business. You will rarely find someone with the honesty, integrity and passion for a customer base. I feel terrible for adding to his stress level.

I'm going to take some time off these boards. It's too stressful. I'll check in occasionally for any news. I'll hope to meet many of you over the years. Good luck all. OK, NOW YOU'RE PISSSING ME OFF!

You're not an idiot. You're passionate about your side of an argument or debate. That's all.

If there is one thing I've learned about these Boards, it's that nobody 'wins'.

Everybody presents what they consider to be the best argument for themselves, others, or the whole NFBC community....but nobody 'wins'.

So, quit beating yourself up and stay passionate.

You've done your best to portray your side, Greg will do what is best for the game and contest as a whole.

[ June 27, 2011, 04:15 PM: Message edited by: DOUGHBOYS ]

Fourslot40 · Post by **Fourslot40** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:23 am

Thanks Dough... good luck man.

Life is good · Post by **Life is good** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:06 am

Hey Greg......... I think the NFBC is awesome. PPl are always gonna find things to bicker & complain about... The truth is, the NFBC is fun and an honest game.....The rules are rules. I am very happy to be part of the NFBC.

The only change I would make honestly is....Some of the Online Championship drafts was early. I think those drafts sould get a chance at waivers a few days before the season.....No one should start the season with a zero just cuzz they only drafted one SS & he got hurt in sping training.......Even with no change there the NFBC is simply AWESOME!!

Gekko · Post by **Gekko** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:12 am

greg runs the best game in town. while this year has been one of my least successful, i'm enjoying it more than most seasons. why?

1. the STATS interface is fantastic

2. more importantly, i realized that Greg is a knight in shining armor compared to other game operators. he can be considered a real friend as opposed to someone who thinks of you as a number (Todd: 3976). thanks Greg!

Cocktails and Dreams · Post by **Cocktails and Dreams** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:11 pm

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

quote:Originally posted by Cocktails and Dreams:

Personally, I like the rules accross the street far more with twice a week pitching and batting changes. Chad, I appreciate your feedback on this matter and all matters, and I think we know you like streaming pitchers rules. It works to your advantage as a fulltime fantasy player. However, the NFBC will not be going to a streaming pitchers game as long as I'm around for many reasons. I don't believe that's the way our customers want the Main Event to go either. Maybe a satellite league could be set up that way and heck maybe a satellite league with daily transactions is doable if demand warrants it. But not for the Main Event or any of our other national contests.

As for the game across the street, we all know what is going on over there. It's a reference I wouldn't have expected from you of all people, but I get it. This is our game and if we need to tighten up any rules we will. Honestly, many of the posts have taken me aback, but maybe my skin got softer in the last few months. Maybe I needed a good stint at the whipping post to get that leather-skin back that I had last year.

Thanks for hardening it a bit for me today.

[/QUOTE]First of all, just because I like a rule difference over there, does not mean I like the game in general, even a little bit, at this point. This place is where it is at in baseball. No question about it. Great competition here. Doesn't matter what kind of league or the price level. That is why I have been fairly outspoken about this rule. I want to see this game have the best rules possible.

Yeah I fully understand the reasoning behind not wanting to fully stream pitchers. Obviously I am in the minority on that preference. And since there isn't that streaming, I just think that the DL should be taken out of play altogether. That will prevent any streaming. Doesn't seem to happen often enough where a fella ends up not pitching when he was scheduled to, to make the rule worth while. I probably should have used a friendlier term than silly or stupid.

I think and hope you know I respect the hell out of you and the games you run. I am sure it will all get figured out for what works best for the majority in the end.

Quahogs · Post by **Quahogs** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:26 pm

Originally posted by Fourslot40:

These message boards have a way of pulling you in and peeling you out of character. Since Saturday, I've made plenty of aggressive and opinionated comments against this loophole. I probably doubled my post total in three days. I was upset with the situation and not anyone in particular. Sometimes, I latch on to something and can't let it go until I win. It's silly. But, the way this thing grew is just crazy and I contributed to it. I was an idiot. For that I apologize to Greg, KJ and others that I disagreed with. All of this nonsense makes our organization look bad and certainly doesn't help promote the business to prospective customers.

Honestly, this contest is awesome. It's all I do in my free time. Greg is a class act. He takes on alot. He is a big reason why I invest in his business. You will rarely find someone with the honesty, integrity and passion for a customer base. I feel terrible for adding to his stress level.

I'm going to take some time off these boards. It's too stressful. I'll check in occasionally for any news. I'll hope to meet many of you over the years. Good luck all.

"hey, you broke your cherry"

Congrats on your 1st MB exasperathon ! Now put a sock in it, sit back, and enjoy the rest of the season

Money · Post by **Money** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:14 pm

I sent Greg a PM today and had a follow up conversation with him this afternoon. Everyone here is ready to move on, as am I. I purposely didn't throw in my comments today as I wanted this to end. Here are my final thoughts on the subject.

1. I never once asked for a mid-season rule change. I stated I didn't care and simply wanted to know the rules and have everyone else know. Go look it up.

2. I never said I didn't trust the stats. I stated over and over that I trusted Greg and the NFBC. I simply wondered if there was an error occurring within the backend software and if there were checks and balances in place. Go look it up.

3. It turned ugly. I never threw the first stone, I simply hurled it back. Go look it up.

4. Most (me included) reads and interprets what they want to see. A re-examination of the facts under less intense circumstances renders a different light on most statements.

5.Bottom line is they didn't know of the glitch / loophole. Those that think it was a legitimate strategy and the NFBC endorsed it are simply delusional.

I'm done, burnt out and tired of all of this. Mostly I'm tired of getting it handed to me in every fantasy sport around here. Everyone here is very competitive and those juices really get flowing when someone feels they've been wronged. No doubt some have been wronged here. No matter the degree of the wrong, it exists. Starting tomorrow that wrong no longer exists, the playing field will be leveled out.

Not sure of my fantasy future but do know that if I had to sign up for something right now, I wouldn't. That may or may not change. I won't post again but will check back periodically to read Dan's "Stuff" or ( I may post again) if I make up the 20 points I'm behind in the live DP. Making up 20 points on Sack is probably impossible, but you never know. I'm in 13th place in a Super and actually think that team could make a run, so I'm probably the one's that delusional.

I carried the opening day Padilla debacle throughout the entire 2010 season. I refuse to do that with this. I'm going back to enjoying Tiger Baseball. The only baseball I really love to watch.

Good luck everyone.

/Users/jb/Pictures/iPhoto Library/Originals/2011/Joe's Pictures/IMG_0357.JPG

Sack · Post by **Sack** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 4:14 pm

Money:

It took almost two years, but for the first time you finally hit the nail on the head!

"Making up 20 points on Sack is probably impossible"

Hopefully, you'll take this as the joke it was intended to be! Long way to go, bring it on and enjoy those Tigers games.