NFBC Prize Payment Update and Timeline

[Gekko]

Originally posted by DOUGHBOYS:



I may sound a little Sportsbettingmanian, but I suspect it becomes a game of how many days the parent company can hang onto millions of dollars gaining interest before customer resentment gets to the breaking point.



It should be interesting to see how this is handled, and more important, WHEN it is handled. i basically agree with you. i wasn't going to make this public, but i guess i will since doughy is bringing it up. my personal breaking point (and others i talked to) is thanksgiving. if there is no check in hand by then, you won't see me in the nfbc in 2011. at that point, i will look at other options. i sat out the 2010 nffc season, and i'll do the same here if needed.



i hope it doesn't come to that, but come on. the question "when are we going to get paid" shouldn't be a jeopardy question. someone (Ryan) at fanball should know when they are going to issue checks. they issue baseball checks every year!



thanksgiving will be 8 weeks since the season is over. more than enough time to issue checks. let's be reasonable here

[Quack & Willy]

last year Fanball started cutting Diamond Challenge checks on 11/5

[Gekko]

Originally posted by Quack & Willy:

last year Fanball started cutting Diamond Challenge checks on 11/5 that's promising.

[KJ Duke]

Originally posted by Gekko:

quote:Originally posted by Quack & Willy:

last year Fanball started cutting Diamond Challenge checks on 11/5 that's promising. [/QUOTE]Look at how much you could've made in the stock market, just in the last few weeks.

[Glenneration X]

Originally posted by DOUGHBOYS:

At the risk of ruining a perfectly good humorous thread comprised of a few, who obviously slept at a Holiday Inn...an opinion.



The checks should at least be in the mail by now.

Companies cut thousands of checks every two weeks in America. It should be no different here.

Computers are wonders, I don't know how they work, but I am betting they know the amount of money everyone made within a day after the season, if not hours. Including the other segments of Fanball competition.



I may sound a little Sportsbettingmanian, but I suspect it becomes a game of how many days the parent company can hang onto millions of dollars gaining interest before customer resentment gets to the breaking point.



It should be interesting to see how this is handled, and more important, WHEN it is handled. Just an FYI....none of the information I provided in this thread were guesses, assumptions, or what I assumed is the way things should be.



I tracked down my 2009 tax return, found & reviewed the tax form Fanball sent me last year, and noted that it was a 1099-MISC with the income entered in Box 3. I then went to the IRS.gov website and read their own instructions regarding this form.



There they note that "the payment of winnings is considered made when actually paid". They also offer both a Schedule C and Schedule C-EZ form which is specifically provided to list deductible expenses so that net income is what is taxed, not gross.



This was then all verified with my personal tax accountant as well as a business colleague whose position involves dealing with 1099's on a regular basis.



All it took to find this information was a short trip downstairs to my tax files, a couple clicks of a mouse, and a phone call or two. No stays at the Holiday Inn required.



The only tax question that remains unanswered is whether funds never paid out but instead utilized for future entries will need to be noted on the 1099. A minor point since those entries are deductible anyway. However, a question that needs to be answered nonetheless.



Regarding when payments will be forthcoming, here is where I'll guess. Fanball sent out football checks for NFFC winners on January 8th last year, pretty much within a month of season's end.



However with the creation of player accounts this year, it goes to reason there would be some time needed to set up these accounts. (Whether Fanball should have set up these accounts prior to season's end is another question altogether).



Still, I'll assume that if the Claim Prize tabs are set up by the first week of November as promised and Fanball uses the time between now and then to verify all prizes, obtain or verify prior receipt of all W-9 forms, and prepare the awarding of all prizes, checks should/could be issued well within a week or two of that time. This would/should just beat the deadline of Thanksgiving set by Mark, meaning that Fanball would live to see another NFBC baseball season.



In all seriousness, one of the positives last year was the quick receipt of payments. Let's not let that aspect of this contest slip.



Glenn



[ October 19, 2010, 08:08 PM: Message edited by: Glenneration X ]

[Glenneration X]

Oh and one more quick observation. Fanball/NFFC did not list my NFFC winnings on last year's 1099, just my NFBC winnings. I'll guess that's because even though I "won" my prizes in 2009, it was "paid" in 2010.



Glenn



[ October 19, 2010, 08:26 PM: Message edited by: Glenneration X ]

[Tax Man]

if you could fill out tax forms by just reading the IRS instructions or explanations on their forms then there wouldnt be an accounting/tax industry. The Internal Revenue Code and Regs determine tax laws. IRS puts out poor cliff-note versions that apply to specific instances.

[KJ Duke]

Originally posted by Tax Man:

if you could fill out tax forms by just reading the IRS instructions or explanations on their forms then there wouldnt be an accounting/tax industry. The Internal Revenue Code and Regs determine tax laws. IRS puts out poor cliff-note versions that apply to specific instances. Flat tax! Bring back Steve Forbes.

[Glenneration X]

Originally posted by Tax Man:

if you could fill out tax forms by just reading the IRS instructions or explanations on their forms then there wouldnt be an accounting/tax industry. The Internal Revenue Code and Regs determine tax laws. IRS puts out poor cliff-note versions that apply to specific instances. Granted. However, I wasn't filling out my tax forms, I have an accountant for that. I was merely looking for information.



I also didn't feel I needed a tax attorney, accountant, IRS agent, or linguist to translate "the payment of winnings is considered made when actually paid". Seems pretty clear to me. It also seems pretty obvious that if a supplemental form to the 1099 is provided by the IRS solely to make deductions to provide "net" income, that deductions are probably allowed. (Though to be clear, you can only deduct up to the amount received as income. If you spent $6K but won only $5K, only $5K of your expenses are deductible. The other grand is pure loss, sorry).



You might have also missed that I verified all this information with my personal accountant amongst others in the know.



Fanball is obviously on board as given my example of what income was noted on my 1099 last year.



The IRS is obviously also on board as verified by Diamondking's example of the IRS conceding his deductions.



I really don't know how these specific points are arguable anymore, but I personally won't argue them anymore.



Greg once you find out, please just let me know if funds utilized for rollover entries will be noted on that specific year's 1099 or not. That was my original question and the only one I really wanted/needed an answer for in the first place.



Thanks,

Glenn



[ October 19, 2010, 10:01 PM: Message edited by: Glenneration X ]

[DOUGHBOYS]

Glenn,

You are up in the MB draft.

[TOXIC ASSETS]

I may sound a little Sportsbettingmanian, but I suspect it becomes a game of how many days the parent company can hang onto millions of dollars gaining interest before customer resentment gets to the breaking point.



It should be interesting to see how this is handled, and more important, WHEN it is handled.

----------------------------------------------

Bingo. Nothing against Fanball because everyone in corporate America does it. But...the winnings should be paid out immediately to all those owners who have been verified with a W9 on file. Fanball has alerady held onto everyone's money since before the season started and has earned at least 6.5 months of interest on that money. Only the owners without a W9 on file should have to wait to get their winnings.

[viper]

at the short term current interest rates, holding money for an extra month is much less meaningful than it was in days of yore.

[DOUGHBOYS]

Originally posted by viper:

at the short term current interest rates, holding money for an extra month is much less meaningful than it was in days of yore. I think everybody knows that.

At the same time, it is 'free' money. And who doesn't like free money?

[DOUGHBOYS]

When thinking about it, it seems a little crazy to me that we are required to pay by a specific date, while fantasy companies are not held to the same standard.



[ October 20, 2010, 08:32 AM: Message edited by: DOUGHBOYS ]

[Greg Ambrosius]

Originally posted by DOUGHBOYS:

When thinking about it, it seems a little crazy to me that we are required to pay by a specific date, while fantasy companies are not held to the same standard. Dan, not to change the subject here, but you have misspelled Mr. Favre's name in your signature. It's Brett, not Bret. Good job on Favre, but you get a D- for Bret. Carry on.

[DOUGHBOYS]

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

quote:Originally posted by DOUGHBOYS:

When thinking about it, it seems a little crazy to me that we are required to pay by a specific date, while fantasy companies are not held to the same standard. Dan, not to change the subject here, but you have misspelled Mr. Favre's name in your signature. It's Brett, not Bret. Good job on Favre, but you get a D- for Bret. Carry on. [/QUOTE]



I'm so lame.

[DOUGHBOYS]

Fixed.

[rkulaski]

Originally posted by Glenneration X:

quote:Originally posted by DOUGHBOYS:

At the risk of ruining a perfectly good humorous thread comprised of a few, who obviously slept at a Holiday Inn...an opinion.



The checks should at least be in the mail by now.

Companies cut thousands of checks every two weeks in America. It should be no different here.

Computers are wonders, I don't know how they work, but I am betting they know the amount of money everyone made within a day after the season, if not hours. Including the other segments of Fanball competition.



I may sound a little Sportsbettingmanian, but I suspect it becomes a game of how many days the parent company can hang onto millions of dollars gaining interest before customer resentment gets to the breaking point.



It should be interesting to see how this is handled, and more important, WHEN it is handled. Just an FYI....none of the information I provided in this thread were guesses, assumptions, or what I assumed is the way things should be.



I tracked down my 2009 tax return, found & reviewed the tax form Fanball sent me last year, and noted that it was a 1099-MISC with the income entered in Box 3. I then went to the IRS.gov website and read their own instructions regarding this form.



There they note that "the payment of winnings is considered made when actually paid". They also offer both a Schedule C and Schedule C-EZ form which is specifically provided to list deductible expenses so that net income is what is taxed, not gross.



This was then all verified with my personal tax accountant as well as a business colleague whose position involves dealing with 1099's on a regular basis.



All it took to find this information was a short trip downstairs to my tax files, a couple clicks of a mouse, and a phone call or two. No stays at the Holiday Inn required.



The only tax question that remains unanswered is whether funds never paid out but instead utilized for future entries will need to be noted on the 1099. A minor point since those entries are deductible anyway. However, a question that needs to be answered nonetheless.



Regarding when payments will be forthcoming, here is where I'll guess. Fanball sent out football checks for NFFC winners on January 8th last year, pretty much within a month of season's end.



However with the creation of player accounts this year, it goes to reason there would be some time needed to set up these accounts. (Whether Fanball should have set up these accounts prior to season's end is another question altogether).



Still, I'll assume that if the Claim Prize tabs are set up by the first week of November as promised and Fanball uses the time between now and then to verify all prizes, obtain or verify prior receipt of all W-9 forms, and prepare the awarding of all prizes, checks should/could be issued well within a week or two of that time. This would/should just beat the deadline of Thanksgiving set by Mark, meaning that Fanball would live to see another NFBC baseball season.



In all seriousness, one of the positives last year was the quick receipt of payments. Let's not let that aspect of this contest slip.



Glenn [/QUOTE]Glenn,



Thanks for the post. I went to irs.gov and also reviewed how I filed my taxes last year and agree completely. While filing taxes are sometimes clear as mud, this is actually pretty straight forward.

[DOUGHBOYS]

You're up in our draft, Rich.

[Glenneration X]

Originally posted by rkulaski:

Thanks for the post. I went to irs.gov and also reviewed how I filed my taxes last year and agree completely. While filing taxes are sometimes clear as mud, this is actually pretty straight forward. No problem Rich.



It's tough enough to win against the level of competition found in this contest. When one of us does manage to pull it off & beat down the sharks , we should get to keep as much of the winnings as we're entitled as long as we're entitled.



Glenn



[ October 21, 2010, 07:31 AM: Message edited by: Glenneration X ]

[DOUGHBOYS]

Another week.

Computers can process thousands and thousands of statistics nightly, yet, not our checks.

I know I'll probably come off as a whiner, but it is annoying to no end that we are still in the 'processing' stage.

By no means, is this a 'prompt' return of winnings.

[Gekko]

Originally posted by DOUGHBOYS:

Another week.

Computers can process thousands and thousands of statistics nightly, yet, not our checks.

I know I'll probably come off as a whiner, but it is annoying to no end that we are still in the 'processing' stage.

By no means, is this a 'prompt' return of winnings. Doughy - Why do you have to make me upset on a Monday!



Why wasn't the "Claim Prize" link ready for when the season ended? I guess it didn't dawn on Fanball (until after the season was over) that they would have to PAY us!



Not to fan flames anymore, but no check by Thanksgiving, no NFBC for GG in 2011. Think i'm bluffing, Ryan, try it and find out. It's a shame I even have to say Thanksgiving. That's almost a full 2 months after the season is over.

[Glenneration X]

Originally posted by Gekko:

quote:Originally posted by DOUGHBOYS:

Another week.

Computers can process thousands and thousands of statistics nightly, yet, not our checks.

I know I'll probably come off as a whiner, but it is annoying to no end that we are still in the 'processing' stage.

By no means, is this a 'prompt' return of winnings. Doughy - Why do you have to make me upset on a Monday!



Why wasn't the "Claim Prize" link ready for when the season ended? I guess it didn't dawn on Fanball (until after the season was over) that they would have to PAY us!



Not to fan flames anymore, but no check by Thanksgiving, no NFBC for GG in 2011. Think i'm bluffing, Ryan, try it and find out. It's a shame I even have to say Thanksgiving. That's almost a full 2 months after the season is over. [/QUOTE]Mark, that's a real busy week for the USPS. What if the check's mailed but delayed in transit?



Glenn



[ October 25, 2010, 09:00 AM: Message edited by: Glenneration X ]

[Gekko]

Originally posted by Glenneration X:

Mark, that's a real busy week for the USPS. What if the check's mailed but delayed in transit?



Glenn I suggest Fanball mail out checks the first week of November. That way, everyone is cool.

[Red Sox Nation]

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

quote:Originally posted by Red Sox Nation:

This is certainly later than last year and my recent memory. I deposited my check on 10/22 last year.



Greg once the window opens up on 11/1 how soon after that will the checks get mailed? I don't remember the exact timeline for NFBC checks in the past, but I'm pretty sure it took about 3-4 weeks. If I recall we got checks out at the end of October because I remember people at the AFL Symposium in early November thanking me for their checks. The process always took a few weeks to verify all prize winners, get everyone in the system and get checks issued.



But again, that was for one contest. Fanball has several contests and is working hard to get all prize winners paid on a very timely basis. That means winners for Diamond Challenge, Draft & Play, NFBC, etc., all getting everything done as soon as possible. The timeline hopefully isn't much different than in the past if we can issue checks quickly after everyone has claimed prizes.



I don't know how quickly checks will be issued after prizes have been claimed, but I'll ask Ryan for an update and post here when I know. We're not far off from years past. [/QUOTE]Greg- Any update from Ryan on the checks?