Proposed NFBC Online Championship Prize Structure

[Greg Ambrosius]

First of all, THANK YOU to everyone who participated in the NFBC Online Championship. This contest FAR EXCEEDED our expectations this year and we are ecstatic to say that everyone will benefit from the increased numbers. The original prize pool was based on 600 teams and we finished with 864 teams and 720 leagues. As a result, it's time to increase the prize payouts.

The first thing we want to do is give everyone a shot at more prize money. Therefore, we'll increase the league prize to $1,400, with second place remaining at $650. We are now paying back $2,050 within each league. Everyone has a fair shot at that increased prize pool.

We also have increased the overall grand prize from $50,000 to $65,000. The top 7 overall prizes have all seen a bump in their payouts. Here's the proposed new pay structure:

NFBC Online Championship
League Prizes:
1st - $1,400
2nd - $650

Overall Prizes:
1st - $65,000
2nd - $15,000
3rd - $7,000
4th - $4,000
5th - $2,500
6th - $1,250
7th - $1,000
8th - $500
9th - $400
10th - $350

Thoughts? Great job everyone and THANKS.

[CALI CARTEL]

I like it, aside from probably a small preference to a $60k/$20k split of the top 2, instead of 65/15. Gonna be a HUGE bummer to lose out on $50k in the last few days of a $350 buyin game if you get 2nd instead of holding onto 1st. Not that losing out on $40k is gonna be much better, but that extra $5k to 2nd will make them a lot happier than the extra $5k from $60k to $65k for the winner.

[hot and cold]

i second that

[Greg Ambrosius]

I like it, aside from probably a small preference to a $60k/$20k split of the top 2, instead of 65/15. Gonna be a HUGE bummer to lose out on $50k in the last few days of a $350 buyin game if you get 2nd instead of holding onto 1st. Not that losing out on $40k is gonna be much better, but that extra $5k to 2nd will make them a lot happier than the extra $5k from $60k to $65k for the winner.

Second place here is 23% of first place. In the Main Event, we just raised 2nd place to 25% of first. I know it's a dropoff, but anything after first place hurts no matter what the prize is. It's going to be a dropoff either way when first place keeps getting bigger and bigger. That being said, $65,000 is one heckuva prize for a $350 entry.

[CALI CARTEL]

I like it, aside from probably a small preference to a $60k/$20k split of the top 2, instead of 65/15. Gonna be a HUGE bummer to lose out on $50k in the last few days of a $350 buyin game if you get 2nd instead of holding onto 1st. Not that losing out on $40k is gonna be much better, but that extra $5k to 2nd will make them a lot happier than the extra $5k from $60k to $65k for the winner.

Second place here is 23% of first place. In the Main Event, we just raised 2nd place to 25% of first. I know it's a dropoff, but anything after first place hurts no matter what the prize is. It's going to be a dropoff either way when first place keeps getting bigger and bigger. That being said, $65,000 is one heckuva prize for a $350 entry.

I see your mirror of % payouts for Main and OC theory, but being very familiar with Poker Tournament payout structures usually the more entries, the flatter the payouts are. This makes sense because there's less teams to be paid out with smaller entries, so the money jumps will be greater.

If these were poker tournaments, the Main would payout around 40-45 spots (~top 10%), and the Online would payout around 80-90 spots -- even though you are only paying the "Top 10" or so in the both, there's a lot more teams in the Online Championship, which would tend to lead to a flatter payout being better for the players. Due to the larger size of the OC, it's actually a larger comparative number of percentile beat by finishing 2nd in the OC (431 teams - half of 864 minus your team) as compared to 1st in Main (419 teams).

$65k is one heck of a prize for $350, but so is $60k -- I doubt the winner is going to bitch much about losing that $5k, where as if someone loses the overall lead on the last day of the season, they are going to be bridge jumping over "losing $50k" rather than "winning $15k".

[Greg Ambrosius]

All I can say is "check out the Slow Draft Prizes" thread where I proposed paying 20 spots and was met with disdain. "10 is enough" was the battle cry. I assume the fantasy baseball folks are a little different than the poker folks, but maybe not. Anyway, I know I can't win either way, but the trend in this industry seems to be toward rewarding the overall champ with a solid prize and for now I'll stick to that model. I feel good that we are increasing the league prize $100 for 72 league champs, while also increasing the overall prizes.

[Pitch12]

All I can say is "check out the Slow Draft Prizes" thread where I proposed paying 20 spots and was met with disdain. "10 is enough" was the battle cry. I assume the fantasy baseball folks are a little different than the poker folks, but maybe not. Anyway, I know I can't win either way, but the trend in this industry seems to be toward rewarding the overall champ with a solid prize and for now I'll stick to that model. I feel good that we are increasing the league prize $100 for 72 league champs, while also increasing the overall prizes.

Someone is always going to have a backlash against a prize pool. Can't please them all.

It's great though, no issues.

[Hells Satans]

Looks great. Don't change a thing

[The Franchise]

My opinion............

Overall Prizes:
1st - $60,000 - $5000 less
2nd - $15,000
3rd - $10,000 - $3000 more
4th - $5,000 - $1000 more
5th - $3,500 - $1000 more
6th - $1,250
7th - $1,000
8th - $500
9th - $400
10th - $350


I just think when your trying to beat out 863 teams a finish in the top 5 is very impressive. 60K is a 10K bump from original prize which is great, but I don't think another 5K will matter too much. But 5K disbursed 3-5 does go a long way IMO.

[CALI CARTEL]

All I can say is "check out the Slow Draft Prizes" thread where I proposed paying 20 spots and was met with disdain. "10 is enough" was the battle cry. I assume the fantasy baseball folks are a little different than the poker folks, but maybe not. Anyway, I know I can't win either way, but the trend in this industry seems to be toward rewarding the overall champ with a solid prize and for now I'll stick to that model. I feel good that we are increasing the league prize $100 for 72 league champs, while also increasing the overall prizes.

I wasn't trying to suggest we need more payouts, I'm suggesting that the Online having twice as many participants, should have a flatter overall payout, rather than a single top heavy prize. The Slow Draft prize pool is more of a bonus, no one was entering that initially with the intent of winning $5000 extra, they were trying to win their leagues and were greeted with a nice little bonus. But in Main & Online, the goal is to win the overall, while I agree that the over should be a large prize, when you've got 860+ teams, getting 2nd-3rd-4th is pretty damn significant, even compared to 1st overall, but you are paying out those spots peanuts compared to 1st, I think that's wrong.

I know there's no perfect system, but I'm not a big fan of the top loading in such a deep league, the more entries in the league, the more the prizes should be spread at the top, or it just becomes a lottery that only one team is going to be happy with. You are paying $65k on a $350, that's WAY bigger of a payout than Main compared to the buy-in, it doesn't need to be that large to make the winner happy. Just think about it from what I was trying to get through before -- if you lose the overall on the last day out of 864 teams, you've just beat 862 other teams and you are going to feel like absolute garbage because you missed out on that $50k extra. I for one would much prefer that $5k to be spread out either straight to 2nd place or even something the likes of Franchise's previous post, that would be solid as well.

[KJ Duke]

>

[KJ Duke]

I posted this in the main event structure ... applying the same here:

Playing around with the percentages for what feels and looks right, I come up with:
* pay 50% of the available pool to the overall winner
* pay 40% to the rest of the top 5
* pay 10% to the rest of the top 10

How would this play out (taking some liberties rounding off a few spots) given the current overall prize pool of which $97,000 is available for the online event ?

1st - $50,000 (50%)
2nd - $15,000 (17%)
3rd - $10,000 (11%)
4th - $7,000 (7%)
5th - $5,000 (5%)
6th - $3,000 (3%)
7th - $2,500 (2.5%)
8th - $2,000 (2%)
9th - $1,500 (1.5%)
10th - $1,000 (1%)

Seeing the numbers in dollars rather than percentages, I like it a lot more than the proposed overly top-heavy $65k structure. The online prize pool currently is 58% of the main event (97/166.5), so that would equate to a $58,000 top prize here - still a little too top heavy - but also indicative that the proposed $65k is even more out of whack. Other than the value of keeping a marketing hook intact (like $100k), I think targeting appx 50% of the overall prize pool to the winner is plenty fair.

[Glenneration X]

I posted this in the main event structure ... applying the same here:

Playing around with the percentages for what feels and looks right, I come up with:
* pay 50% of the available pool to the overall winner
* pay 40% to the rest of the top 5
* pay 10% to the rest of the top 10

How would this play out (taking some liberties rounding off a few spots) given the current overall prize pool of which $97,000 is available for the online event ?

1st - $50,000 (50%)
2nd - $15,000 (17%)
3rd - $10,000 (11%)
4th - $7,000 (7%)
5th - $5,000 (5%)
6th - $3,000 (3%)
7th - $2,500 (2.5%)
8th - $2,000 (2%)
9th - $1,500 (1.5%)
10th - $1,000 (1%)

Seeing the numbers in dollars rather than percentages, I like it a lot more than the proposed overly top-heavy $65k structure.

I like this the best of all options offered so far. I see no reason to even increase the top prize. $50K is plenty for a $350 entry. There's no bigger carrot necessary, the signups are closed. Use the extra dough to beef up 2nd through 10th and make the prizes a bit more equitable throughout the top finishers. Take it from someone who's finished 2nd in an overall a couple times and a bit further down a few other times, there's nothing worse than being just a couple points off the top and getting just a small fraction of that top prize as a consolation.

[hot and cold]

I posted this in the main event structure ... applying the same here:

Playing around with the percentages for what feels and looks right, I come up with:
* pay 50% of the available pool to the overall winner
* pay 40% to the rest of the top 5
* pay 10% to the rest of the top 10

How would this play out (taking some liberties rounding off a few spots) given the current overall prize pool of which $97,000 is available for the online event ?

1st - $50,000 (50%)
2nd - $15,000 (17%)
3rd - $10,000 (11%)
4th - $7,000 (7%)
5th - $5,000 (5%)
6th - $3,000 (3%)
7th - $2,500 (2.5%)
8th - $2,000 (2%)
9th - $1,500 (1.5%)
10th - $1,000 (1%)

Seeing the numbers in dollars rather than percentages, I like it a lot more than the proposed overly top-heavy $65k structure. The online prize pool currently is 58% of the main event (97/166.5), so that would equate to a $58,000 top prize here - still a little too top heavy - but also indicative that the proposed $65k is even more out of whack. Other than the value of keeping a marketing hook intact (like $100k), I think targeting appx 50% of the overall prize pool to the winner is plenty fair.

i vote for this also .

[Quahogs]

2013 entrants :
1st - $50,000 (50%) - 2ND Diamond league
2nd - $15,000 (17%) - 2ND Diamond lg
3rd - $10,000 (11%) - Ultimate lg
4th - $7,000 (7%) - Ultimate lg
5th - $5,000 (5%) - Ultimate lg
6th - $3,000 (3%) - Super lg
7th - $2,500 (2.5%) - Super lg
8th - $2,000 (2%) - Super lg
9th - $1,500 (1.5%) - XII lg
10th - $1,000 (1%) - XII lg

[CALI CARTEL]

I posted this in the main event structure ... applying the same here:

Playing around with the percentages for what feels and looks right, I come up with:
* pay 50% of the available pool to the overall winner
* pay 40% to the rest of the top 5
* pay 10% to the rest of the top 10

How would this play out (taking some liberties rounding off a few spots) given the current overall prize pool of which $97,000 is available for the online event ?

1st - $50,000 (50%)
2nd - $15,000 (17%)
3rd - $10,000 (11%)
4th - $7,000 (7%)
5th - $5,000 (5%)
6th - $3,000 (3%)
7th - $2,500 (2.5%)
8th - $2,000 (2%)
9th - $1,500 (1.5%)
10th - $1,000 (1%)

Seeing the numbers in dollars rather than percentages, I like it a lot more than the proposed overly top-heavy $65k structure. The online prize pool currently is 58% of the main event (97/166.5), so that would equate to a $58,000 top prize here - still a little too top heavy - but also indicative that the proposed $65k is even more out of whack. Other than the value of keeping a marketing hook intact (like $100k), I think targeting appx 50% of the overall prize pool to the winner is plenty fair.

This is easily my favorite payout structure I've seen. With a buyin 1/4 of the size, and double the entries, why should first be more than half of the Main Overall prize? At most it should be about half, this payout structure sticks right at that 50% mark. Top 10 out of 864 teams (top 1.2% of all teams) should get back $1000+, that's something significant on a $350 entry; but adding only $350-$500? To me those tiny nothing overall prizes (it's like a 3rd place league prize) are kind of an insult for finishing Top 10 overall -- rather those just be thrown into the top 5 and cut it off there; they are less than 1% of the Grand Prize, why even bother?

$50,000 is a still a MONSTER prize on a $350 buyin; and it's still 50 times the 10th place prize in KJ's structure. Plus this stays in line with the XII, if you want growth in that game, it'd probably be best to have an online prize that doesn't dwarf the XII prize by 30%. Put me down for another vote on KJ's structure.

[Packman]

I posted this in the main event structure ... applying the same here:

Playing around with the percentages for what feels and looks right, I come up with:
* pay 50% of the available pool to the overall winner
* pay 40% to the rest of the top 5
* pay 10% to the rest of the top 10

How would this play out (taking some liberties rounding off a few spots) given the current overall prize pool of which $97,000 is available for the online event ?

1st - $50,000 (50%)
2nd - $15,000 (17%)
3rd - $10,000 (11%)
4th - $7,000 (7%)
5th - $5,000 (5%)
6th - $3,000 (3%)
7th - $2,500 (2.5%)
8th - $2,000 (2%)
9th - $1,500 (1.5%)
10th - $1,000 (1%)

Seeing the numbers in dollars rather than percentages, I like it a lot more than the proposed overly top-heavy $65k structure. The online prize pool currently is 58% of the main event (97/166.5), so that would equate to a $58,000 top prize here - still a little too top heavy - but also indicative that the proposed $65k is even more out of whack. Other than the value of keeping a marketing hook intact (like $100k), I think targeting appx 50% of the overall prize pool to the winner is plenty fair.

This is easily my favorite payout structure I've seen. With a buyin 1/4 of the size, and double the entries, why should first be more than half of the Main Overall prize? At most it should be about half, this payout structure sticks right at that 50% mark. Top 10 out of 864 teams (top 1.2% of all teams) should get back $1000+, that's something significant on a $350 entry; but adding only $350-$500? To me those tiny nothing overall prizes (it's like a 3rd place league prize) are kind of an insult for finishing Top 10 overall -- rather those just be thrown into the top 5 and cut it off there; they are less than 1% of the Grand Prize, why even bother?

$50,000 is a still a MONSTER prize on a $350 buyin; and it's still 50 times the 10th place prize in KJ's structure. Plus this stays in line with the XII, if you want growth in that game, it'd probably be best to have an online prize that doesn't dwarf the XII prize by 30%. Put me down for another vote on KJ's structure.

I totally agree with this sentiment. I know Greg already posted that he likes the idea of mostly increasing the top overall prize, as that is what the industry is dictating, but I would much rather see this more equitably distributed prize pool to the top 10. It seems to me that the NFBC is fast becoming THE industry, in fantasy baseball anyway, and the NFBC shouldn't feel it necessary to follow the perceived industries leaning and bow down to what the industry is doing. I wish the rest of the industry would have a more flattened pay structure at the top too, especially with the skyrocketing number of entries. It just seems right to award more to the top 10 when there are 864 teams to have to beat out, 854 just to get into the top 10, only to receive $350 more.

[Cocktails and Dreams]

I don't really care too much but KJ's plan seems like an excellent one.

[rockitsauce]

I like the KJ plan as well.

[Potter]

Those of us that have the occasional delusional thought of having more than one team in a given event finishing extremely well, pumping up 2nd-10th seems like a good idea. It's a lot easier to convince oneself it's okay to enter that extra team or three if there are prizes other than the top spot that pay out more than a little. Pumping up the top 10 outside of #1 may not be a great marketing tool for new players, but I imagine it would be a pretty nice carrot for those who are inclined to enter multiple teams.

[DOUGHBOYS]

Agreed.
The $100,000 carrot is there in the Main Event. That figure, hopefully, draws new players to the NFBC.
Once here, the new folks will decide which game suits there needs.
The other prizes do not have to be as top-heavy as the Main Event.
$50,000 is a huge amount to win on a $350 investment.
$65,000 would not put anymore folks through the turnstiles than the 50 grand. To the eyes and ears, $50,000 just looks like a first place figure.
Just my two cents....

[RedRyder]

I like KJ's breakdown best of those listed. I also favor a structure like Poker tourney pay-outs like CaliCartel suggested. Only for the Online, not for the Main.

[Ryan C]

Being one of the overall competitions I am actually entered in - I'll throw my two cents in here.

I will throw my vote behind KJ's breakdown as well. I think others made solid arguments as to why the $50,000 prize need not be increased as well. I like the idea of spreading that extra money out elsewhere.

[CALI CARTEL]

Greg, you got 864 people to sign up this year with no promise that the Overall Prize would for sure rise from $50,000 (only that additional monies would be put into the overall prizes in general). I think that shows the $50,000 prize point versus entry fee is pretty solid for the growth of this game.

[Oaktown]

Another vote for KJ's payout system.