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Jonathan Broxton hit 2 straight batters to force in the winning run

an error, 2 walks, and 2 hit batsmen produce 2 runs and a blown save

With the incredible level of volatility of closers going down for the year,totally unexpected role changes(e.g. Santiago,Rodney,Aceves,etc.) and countless early season blown saves maybe there is a need to consider a rules change for next year. Many leagues have adapted the saves category to a combination of saves plus holds minus blown saves.It gives added value to elite setup guys and totally changes the draft perspective on targeting only closers with a defined role.You would now have to consider a players saves % success as well and that would certainly add a new apect to the game concerning middle relievers.It would also make you think twice about rostering those closers with poor saves success rates just to get the saves. Now if he blows the save you get hit with a negative point. Just some food for thought here.

mlbbug wrote:With the incredible level of volatility of closers going down for the year,totally unexpected role changes(e.g. Santiago,Rodney,Aceves,etc.) and countless early season blown saves maybe there is a need to consider a rules change for next year. Many leagues have adapted the saves category to a combination of saves plus holds minus blown saves.It gives added value to elite setup guys and totally changes the draft perspective on targeting only closers with a defined role.You would now have to consider a players saves % success as well and that would certainly add a new apect to the game concerning middle relievers.It would also make you think twice about rostering those closers with poor saves success rates just to get the saves. Now if he blows the save you get hit with a negative point. Just some food for thought here.

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http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.ph ... more-82735

I personally am not a fan of penalizing for blown saves. If the RP blows a save - he's going to penalize you plenty in ERA and WHIP anyway.

Also, I am not a fan of valuing the Hold at the same level as the save.

I do however like the idea of providing more value to MR, and giving owners more options to get points in the save category.
The stat I do like, and actually think would make the most sense for this contest, if the powers that be ever considered a change would be a Net Saves Category calculated this way: Saves + Holds/2

It keeps the closer's at the top of the food chain, but also finally recognizes that Elite MR have value as well. It also allows owners to actually use their closer's in waiting and rack up some points in the save category, albeit at a slower pace. For example, last year Johnny Venters had 35 holds AND 5 saves. That would have been good for 22 Net Saves. Not too shabby, and actually a pretty good measure of his value. This too me is the way to go - no negative stats for me.

mlbbug wrote:With the incredible level of volatility of closers going down for the year,totally unexpected role changes(e.g. Santiago,Rodney,Aceves,etc.) and countless early season blown saves maybe there is a need to consider a rules change for next year. Many leagues have adapted the saves category to a combination of saves plus holds minus blown saves.It gives added value to elite setup guys and totally changes the draft perspective on targeting only closers with a defined role.You would now have to consider a players saves % success as well and that would certainly add a new apect to the game concerning middle relievers.It would also make you think twice about rostering those closers with poor saves success rates just to get the saves. Now if he blows the save you get hit with a negative point. Just some food for thought here.

This is just an awful idea. sorry, but I have no need for calculating formulas Mr. Kelchner, this ain't algebra. I would agree that many teams' closer situations are volatile, but it's volatile for everyone. Every mlb player is a play away from a potentially season ending injury. To suggest that we should change the scoring b/c drafting closers who get hurt sucks is just a blatant over reaction. I say this as a guy who drafted Madson & Bailey on one of my teams

You know what I did. I didn't cry about it, I spent $396 to win Hector Santiago. I'll keep fighting cuz thats all you can do.

I can go along w/ OBP being better than BA w/ regard to evaluating a hitter's true worth, but it's still just replacing one set of numbers for another. This whole saves plus minus blown holds blah blah blah......not interested. Just keep it as Saves and know that every yr it's a crapshoot that we ALL must contend w/.

You could get a blown save in the 6th inning

Saves are not a skills based stat. They are an opportunity based stat and are also affected by the whim of the manager. I admit that my idea may be too drastic a change for most guys. MLB has done a great job of convincing us on the value of the save.Today, Tim Byrdak walked in a run late in the Mets-Nats game making the score 4-0 instead of 3-0. Henry Rodriguez comes in for a scoreless 9th inning but gets no save since it was a 4 run lead,not a 3 run lead.And that's my point right there.If Rodriguez comes in with a 3 run lead and now gets a save, does that make him a better pitcher He certainly is considered a more valuable pitcher because he got the save. Not sure exactly what the answer is but I think it at least deserves further thought.

mlbbug wrote:Saves are not a skills based stat. They are an opportunity based stat and are also affected by the whim of the manager. I admit that my idea may be too drastic a change for most guys. MLB has done a great job of convincing us on the value of the save.Today, Tim Byrdak walked in a run late in the Mets-Nats game making the score 4-0 instead of 3-0. Henry Rodriguez comes in for a scoreless 9th inning but gets no save since it was a 4 run lead,not a 3 run lead.And that's my point right there.If Rodriguez comes in with a 3 run lead and now gets a save, does that make him a better pitcher He certainly is considered a more valuable pitcher because he got the save. Not sure exactly what the answer is but I think it at least deserves further thought.

Rich, you are preaching to the choir my brother. I think Saves are a stat exploited by agents to get big $ for some pitchers. Obviously there are countless examples of games being "saved" in the 7th or 8th inn. but the guy who pitches in the 9th, Gets the Save and the $$$

I'm always for discussion. I just think in this case that the solution is complicated and I prefer simplicity...and tradition. Saves are definitely the most infuriating stat to deal w/ b/c of the instability of the closer pos (as u had mentioned), but I still prefer to scratch & claw & fight my way to a victory by way of the 10 cat's that we have now.

Your suggestion sounds almost like something for those guys who like having like 20 categories. Thats fine for some, but I would be better off just sending a check to Todd Zola than competing in a lge like that, tho I'm sure Toddy would love that

SBs are almost as stupid as saves in terms of baseball importance. RBI's are almost as opportunity dependent as saves. If we want true skill-based fantasy, we should use WAR, wOBA, SIERA, VORP, etc.

But this isn't real baseball.