Early NFBC Draft Results

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:17 am

Okay, we've already had six NFBC Draft Champions Leagues underway and all of them are through the sixth round. Folks are doing a great job and are excited to be drafting baseball players in December. Most of these are averaging 2 to 4 rounds per day, so GREAT JOB everyone.

Since I have a draft tonight, it's time to look at the early draft results and see where the trends are through the first six rounds. I will continue to update this thread with early results from the NFBC Draft Champions Leagues, but we'll never post more than 6 rounds of results and we'll never identify which league it is. It's important to keep owners' identities and their draft results/strategies unknown.

Here's a couple of early rounds. Enjoy.

NFBC Draft Champions League
Round 1:
1 1 Miguel Cabrera 3B
1 2 Ryan Braun LF
1 3 Mike Trout CF
1 4 Robinson Cano 2B
1 5 Matt Kemp CF
1 6 Albert Pujols 1B
1 7 Andrew McCutchen CF
1 8 Stephen Strasburg SP
1 9 Joey Votto 1B
1 10 Prince Fielder 1B
1 11 Josh Hamilton CF
1 12 Carlos Gonzalez LF
1 13 Troy Tulowitzki SS
1 14 Hanley Ramirez 3B
1 15 Justin Verlander SP

Round 2:
2 1 Clayton Kershaw SP
2 2 Jose Bautista RF
2 3 Evan Longoria 3B
2 4 Buster Posey C
2 5 Giancarlo Stanton RF
2 6 Adrian Beltre 3B
2 7 Adam Jones CF
2 8 Jason Heyward RF
2 9 Justin Upton RF
2 10 David Wright 3B
2 11 Jose Reyes SS
2 12 Curtis Granderson CF
2 13 Dustin Pedroia 2B
2 14 Ian Kinsler 2B
2 15 Adrian Gonzalez 1B

Round 3:
3 1 Ryan Zimmerman 3B
3 2 Edwin Encarnacion 1B
3 3 Jacoby Ellsbury CF
3 4 Bryce Harper CF
3 5 Matt Cain SP
3 6 Cole Hamels SP
3 7 Felix Hernandez SP
3 8 Aramis Ramirez 3B
3 9 David Price SP
3 10 B.J. Upton CF
3 11 Gio Gonzalez SP
3 12 Jay Bruce RF
3 13 Starlin Castro SS
3 14 Billy Butler DH
3 15 Matt Holliday LF

Round 4:
4 1 Ian Desmond SS
4 2 Desmond Jennings LF
4 3 Jason Kipnis 2B
4 4 Ben Zobrist RF
4 5 Zack Greinke SP
4 6 Yoenis Cespedes CF
4 7 R.A. Dickey SP
4 8 Paul Goldschmidt 1B
4 9 Craig Kimbrel MR
4 10 Mark Teixeira 1B
4 11 Chase Headley 3B
4 12 Jimmy Rollins SS
4 13 Madison Bumgarner SP
4 14 Jered Weaver SP
4 15 Cliff Lee SP

Round 5:
5 1 Aaron Hill 2B
5 2 Joe Mauer C
5 3 Carlos Santana C
5 4 Allen Craig 1B
5 5 Alex Gordon LF
5 6 Michael Bourn CF
5 7 Brett Lawrie 3B
5 8 Alex Rios RF
5 9 Wilin Rosario C
5 10 James Shields SP
5 11 Brandon Phillips 2B
5 12 CC Sabathia SP
5 13 Hunter Pence RF
5 14 Corey Hart 1B
5 15 Pablo Sandoval 3B

Round 6:
6 1 Victor Martinez C
6 2 Nelson Cruz RF
6 3 Freddie Freeman 1B
6 4 Matt Wieters C
6 5 Eric Hosmer 1B
6 6 Yadier Molina C
6 7 Jonathan Papelbon MR
6 8 Yu Darvish SP
6 9 Elvis Andrus SS
6 10 Roy Halladay SP
6 11 Chris Sale SP
6 12 Shin-Soo Choo RF
6 13 Adam Wainwright SP
6 14 Kris Medlen SP
6 15 Shane Victorino CF

Thoughts?

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:23 am

Here's one more draft result to chew on:

NFBC Draft Champions League
1st Round:
1 1 Miguel Cabrera 3B
1 2 Ryan Braun LF
1 3 Mike Trout CF
1 4 Robinson Cano 2B
1 5 Andrew McCutchen CF
1 6 Joey Votto 1B
1 7 Justin Verlander SP
1 8 Albert Pujols 1B
1 9 Stephen Strasburg SP
1 10 Matt Kemp CF
1 11 Clayton Kershaw SP
1 12 Buster Posey C
1 13 Josh Hamilton CF
1 14 Carlos Gonzalez LF
1 15 Prince Fielder 1B

Second Round:
2 1 Evan Longoria 3B
2 2 Hanley Ramirez 3B
2 3 Adrian Beltre 3B
2 4 Troy Tulowitzki SS
2 5 David Wright 3B
2 6 Giancarlo Stanton RF
2 7 Justin Upton RF
2 8 Jose Reyes SS
2 9 Adam Jones CF
2 10 Ryan Zimmerman 3B
2 11 Ian Kinsler 2B
2 12 Jason Heyward RF
2 13 Felix Hernandez SP
2 14 Edwin Encarnacion 1B
2 15 Jose Bautista RF

Third Round:
3 1 Jacoby Ellsbury CF
3 2 David Price SP
3 3 Craig Kimbrel MR
3 4 Adrian Gonzalez 1B
3 5 Dustin Pedroia 2B
3 6 Aaron Hill 2B
3 7 Aramis Ramirez 3B
3 8 Matt Holliday LF
3 9 Bryce Harper CF
3 10 Chase Headley 3B
3 11 Curtis Granderson CF
3 12 Starlin Castro SS
3 13 B.J. Upton CF
3 14 Cole Hamels SP
3 15 Jered Weaver SP

Fourth Round:
4 1 Michael Bourn CF
4 2 Matt Cain SP
4 3 Yoenis Cespedes CF
4 4 Brett Lawrie 3B
4 5 Ian Desmond SS
4 6 Cliff Lee SP
4 7 Mark Teixeira 1B
4 8 Joe Mauer C
4 9 Ben Zobrist RF
4 10 Jay Bruce RF
4 11 Billy Butler DH
4 12 Elvis Andrus SS
4 13 Allen Craig 1B
4 14 Jason Kipnis 2B
4 15 Madison Bumgarner SP

Fifth Round:
5 1 Eric Hosmer 1B
5 2 Paul Goldschmidt 1B
5 3 Gio Gonzalez SP
5 4 CC Sabathia SP
5 5 Carlos Santana C
5 6 Asdrubal Cabrera SS
5 7 Brandon Phillips 2B
5 8 R.A. Dickey SP
5 9 Zack Greinke SP
5 10 Jimmy Rollins SS
5 11 Johnny Cueto SP
5 12 Desmond Jennings LF
5 13 Alex Rios RF
5 14 Chris Sale SP
5 15 Yu Darvish SP

Sixth Round:
6 1 Matt Wieters C
6 2 Adam Wainwright SP
6 3 Yadier Molina C
6 4 Yovani Gallardo SP
6 5 Freddie Freeman 1B
6 6 Pablo Sandoval 3B
6 7 Victor Martinez C
6 8 Roy Halladay SP
6 9 Kris Medlen SP
6 10 James Shields SP
6 11 Corey Hart 1B
6 12 Shin-Soo Choo RF
6 13 Austin Jackson CF
6 14 Wilin Rosario C
6 15 Mike Napoli C

Thoughts?

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:31 am

Okay, one last draft result for today and then I have to prepare for my draft. Here you go and enjoy:

NFBC Draft Champions League
First Round:
1 1 Miguel Cabrera 3B
1 2 Ryan Braun LF
1 3 Mike Trout CF
1 4 Robinson Cano 2B
1 5 Matt Kemp CF
1 6 Andrew McCutchen CF
1 7 Justin Verlander SP
1 8 Prince Fielder 1B
1 9 Joey Votto 1B
1 10 Albert Pujols 1B
1 11 Josh Hamilton CF
1 12 Buster Posey C
1 13 Carlos Gonzalez LF
1 14 Hanley Ramirez 3B
1 15 Stephen Strasburg SP

Second Round:
2 1 Troy Tulowitzki SS
2 2 David Wright 3B
2 3 Evan Longoria 3B
2 4 Jose Bautista RF
2 5 Clayton Kershaw SP
2 6 Adrian Beltre 3B
2 7 Ian Kinsler 2B
2 8 Giancarlo Stanton RF
2 9 Jason Heyward RF
2 10 Jay Bruce RF
2 11 Dustin Pedroia 2B
2 12 Adam Jones CF
2 13 Adrian Gonzalez 1B
2 14 Bryce Harper CF
2 15 Jose Reyes SS

Third Round:
3 1 Justin Upton RF
3 2 Starlin Castro SS
3 3 Jacoby Ellsbury CF
3 4 Ryan Zimmerman 3B
3 5 Curtis Granderson CF
3 6 Edwin Encarnacion 1B
3 7 Aaron Hill 2B
3 8 David Price SP
3 9 Matt Cain SP
3 10 B.J. Upton CF
3 11 Desmond Jennings LF
3 12 Yoenis Cespedes CF
3 13 Felix Hernandez SP
3 14 Brandon Phillips 2B
3 15 Gio Gonzalez SP

Fourth Round:
4 1 Allen Craig 1B
4 2 Cole Hamels SP
4 3 Jered Weaver SP
4 4 Craig Kimbrel MR
4 5 Chase Headley 3B
4 6 Aramis Ramirez 3B
4 7 Matt Holliday LF
4 8 Billy Butler DH
4 9 Ben Zobrist RF
4 10 Ian Desmond SS
4 11 Joe Mauer C
4 12 Carlos Santana C
4 13 Zack Greinke SP
4 14 Jason Kipnis 2B
4 15 Cliff Lee SP

Fifth Round:
5 1 Madison Bumgarner SP
5 2 Chris Sale SP
5 3 Pablo Sandoval 3B
5 4 R.A. Dickey SP
5 5 Jimmy Rollins SS
5 6 Adam Wainwright SP
5 7 Paul Goldschmidt 1B
5 8 Brett Lawrie 3B
5 9 Yu Darvish SP
5 10 James Shields SP
5 11 Mark Teixeira 1B
5 12 Melky Cabrera LF
5 13 Yadier Molina C
5 14 Alex Rios RF
5 15 Wilin Rosario C

Sixth Round:
6 1 Jonathan Papelbon MR
6 2 Shin-Soo Choo RF
6 3 Elvis Andrus SS
6 4 Michael Bourn CF
6 5 CC Sabathia SP
6 6 Max Scherzer SP
6 7 Matt Wieters C
6 8 Mat Latos SP
6 9 Jose Altuve 2B
6 10 Jordan Zimmermann SP
6 11 Victor Martinez C
6 12 Yovani Gallardo SP
6 13 Mike Napoli C
6 14 Eric Hosmer 1B
6 15 Roy Halladay SP

Thoughts?

Head 2 Head · Post by **Head 2 Head** » Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:17 pm

Not Surprised that all three had the same first three players. However, that the first four were the same and all three drafts they were in the same order did surprise me. Now the sheep will all follow....

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:29 pm

Let's add two more DC results to whet your appetites for baseball:

NFBC Draft Champions League
Round 1:
1 1 Ryan Braun LF
1 2 Miguel Cabrera 3B
1 3 Mike Trout CF
1 4 Robinson Cano 2B
1 5 Andrew McCutchen CF
1 6 Albert Pujols 1B
1 7 Matt Kemp CF
1 8 Joey Votto 1B
1 9 Carlos Gonzalez LF
1 10 Stephen Strasburg SP
1 11 Clayton Kershaw SP
1 12 Buster Posey C
1 13 Giancarlo Stanton RF
1 14 Prince Fielder 1B
1 15 Josh Hamilton CF

Round 2:
2 1 Hanley Ramirez SS
2 2 Justin Verlander SP
2 3 Evan Longoria 3B
2 4 Jose Reyes SS
2 5 Adrian Gonzalez 1B
2 6 Jacoby Ellsbury CF
2 7 Troy Tulowitzki SS
2 8 David Wright 3B
2 9 Jose Bautista RF
2 10 Adrian Beltre 3B
2 11 Justin Upton RF
2 12 Starlin Castro SS
2 13 Curtis Granderson CF
2 14 Ian Kinsler 2B
2 15 Dustin Pedroia 2B

Round 3:
3 1 B.J. Upton CF
3 2 Jay Bruce RF
3 3 Edwin Encarnacion 1B
3 4 Cole Hamels SP
3 5 Ryan Zimmerman 3B
3 6 Adam Jones CF
3 7 David Price SP
3 8 Jason Heyward RF
3 9 Felix Hernandez SP
3 10 Jered Weaver SP
3 11 Matt Holliday LF
3 12 Gio Gonzalez SP
3 13 Billy Butler DH
3 14 Bryce Harper CF
3 15 Aramis Ramirez 3B

Round 4:
4 1 Desmond Jennings LF
4 2 Ian Desmond SS
4 3 Yoenis Cespedes CF
4 4 Alex Rios RF
4 5 Joe Mauer C
4 6 Matt Cain SP
4 7 Chase Headley 3B
4 8 Craig Kimbrel MR
4 9 Ben Zobrist RF
4 10 Cliff Lee SP
4 11 Zack Greinke SP
4 12 Madison Bumgarner SP
4 13 Jason Kipnis 2B
4 14 Brandon Phillips 2B
4 15 Jimmy Rollins SS

Round 5:
5 1 Paul Goldschmidt 1B
5 2 Allen Craig 1B
5 3 Aaron Hill 2B
5 4 Brett Lawrie 3B
5 5 Mark Teixeira 1B
5 6 CC Sabathia SP
5 7 Yu Darvish SP
5 8 Carlos Santana C
5 9 R.A. Dickey SP
5 10 Yadier Molina C
5 11 Roy Halladay SP
5 12 Chris Sale SP
5 13 Alex Gordon LF
5 14 Kris Medlen SP
5 15 Corey Hart 1B

Round 6:
6 1 Nelson Cruz RF
6 2 Adam Wainwright SP
6 3 Aroldis Chapman MR
6 4 Freddie Freeman 1B
6 5 Victor Martinez C
6 6 Michael Bourn CF
6 7 Wilin Rosario C
6 8 Elvis Andrus SS
6 9 Shin-Soo Choo RF
6 10 Hunter Pence RF
6 11 Jonathan Papelbon MR
6 12 Matt Wieters C
6 13 Fernando Rodney MR
6 14 Jason Motte MR
6 15 Shane Victorino CF

Thoughts?

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:36 pm

Here's one more for the day:

NFBC Draft Champions League
Round 1:
1 1 Mike Trout CF
1 2 Miguel Cabrera 3B
1 3 Ryan Braun LF
1 4 Andrew McCutchen CF
1 5 Robinson Cano 2B
1 6 Josh Hamilton CF
1 7 Albert Pujols 1B
1 8 Matt Kemp CF
1 9 Giancarlo Stanton RF
1 10 Joey Votto 1B
1 11 Buster Posey C
1 12 Stephen Strasburg SP
1 13 Carlos Gonzalez LF
1 14 Prince Fielder 1B
1 15 Jose Bautista RF

Round 2:
2 1 Hanley Ramirez SS
2 2 Troy Tulowitzki SS
2 3 Justin Verlander SP
2 4 Adrian Beltre 3B
2 5 Evan Longoria 3B
2 6 Clayton Kershaw SP
2 7 Bryce Harper CF
2 8 David Wright 3B
2 9 David Price SP
2 10 R.A. Dickey SP
2 11 Adam Jones CF
2 12 Ryan Zimmerman 3B
2 13 Ian Kinsler 2B
2 14 Justin Upton RF
2 15 Jose Reyes SS

Round 3:
3 1 Cole Hamels SP
3 2 Adrian Gonzalez 1B
3 3 Jason Heyward RF
3 4 Felix Hernandez SP
3 5 Edwin Encarnacion 1B
3 6 Chase Headley 3B
3 7 Starlin Castro SS
3 8 Jay Bruce RF
3 9 Craig Kimbrel MR
3 10 Curtis Granderson CF
3 11 Jacoby Ellsbury CF
3 12 Dustin Pedroia 2B
3 13 Matt Holliday LF
3 14 B.J. Upton CF
3 15 Matt Cain SP

Round 4:
4 1 Ian Desmond SS
4 2 Ben Zobrist RF
4 3 Jimmy Rollins SS
4 4 Yoenis Cespedes CF
4 5 Paul Goldschmidt 1B
4 6 Aramis Ramirez 3B
4 7 Carlos Santana C
4 8 Billy Butler DH
4 9 Madison Bumgarner SP
4 10 Alex Rios RF
4 11 Joe Mauer C
4 12 Aaron Hill 2B
4 13 Brandon Phillips 2B
4 14 Cliff Lee SP
4 15 Allen Craig 1B

Round 5:
5 1 Max Scherzer SP
5 2 Elvis Andrus SS
5 3 Jered Weaver SP
5 4 Desmond Jennings LF
5 5 Gio Gonzalez SP
5 6 Fernando Rodney MR
5 7 Brett Lawrie 3B
5 8 Jason Kipnis 2B
5 9 Victor Martinez C
5 10 Yu Darvish SP
5 11 Zack Greinke SP
5 12 Adam Wainwright SP
5 13 Shin-Soo Choo RF
5 14 James Shields SP
5 15 Yovani Gallardo SP

Round 6:
6 1 Corey Hart 1B
6 2 Jonathan Papelbon MR
6 3 CC Sabathia SP
6 4 Yadier Molina C
6 5 Alex Gordon LF
6 6 Derek Jeter SS
6 7 Jordan Zimmermann SP
6 8 Miguel Montero C
6 9 Michael Bourn CF
6 10 Carlos Gomez CF
6 11 Chris Sale SP
6 12 Mark Teixeira 1B
6 13 Eric Hosmer 1B
6 14 Matt Wieters C
6 15 David Ortiz DH

Thoughts?

TOXIC ASSETS · Post by **TOXIC ASSETS** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:56 am

There is no way R.A. Dickey should be drafted any lower than the 2nd round. What more does the guy need to do? Don't tell me its age because the dude throws a knuckleball. You can throw age out the window.

TOXIC ASSETS · Post by **TOXIC ASSETS** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:33 am

NFBC Draft Champions League
1st Round:
1 1 Miguel Cabrera 3B
1 2 Ryan Braun LF
1 3 Mike Trout CF
1 4 Robinson Cano 2B
1 5 Andrew McCutchen CF
1 6 Joey Votto 1B
1 7 Justin Verlander SP
1 8 Albert Pujols 1B
1 9 Stephen Strasburg SP
1 10 Matt Kemp CF
1 11 Clayton Kershaw SP
1 12 Buster Posey C
1 13 Josh Hamilton CF
1 14 Carlos Gonzalez LF
1 15 Prince Fielder 1B
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Team 8 had a very interesting 6 round draft in this one. ALL VETERANS and all proven commodities. IF this team can avoid injuries, I am predicting that team 8 wins this league. George Allen, the long-ago NFL coach of the Redskins and Rams, would be proud of this draft. For those who don't know George Allen, look him up. The greatest coach to never win a Super Bowl.

Edwards Kings · Post by **Edwards Kings** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:16 am

TOXIC ASSETS wrote:NFBC Draft Champions League
1st Round:
1 1 Miguel Cabrera 3B
1 2 Ryan Braun LF
1 3 Mike Trout CF
1 4 Robinson Cano 2B
1 5 Andrew McCutchen CF
1 6 Joey Votto 1B
1 7 Justin Verlander SP
1 8 Albert Pujols 1B
1 9 Stephen Strasburg SP
1 10 Matt Kemp CF
1 11 Clayton Kershaw SP
1 12 Buster Posey C
1 13 Josh Hamilton CF
1 14 Carlos Gonzalez LF
1 15 Prince Fielder 1B
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Team 8 had a very interesting 6 round draft in this one. ALL VETERANS and all proven commodities. IF this team can avoid injuries, I am predicting that team 8 wins this league. George Allen, the long-ago NFL coach of the Redskins and Rams, would be proud of this draft. For those who don't know George Allen, look him up. The greatest coach to never win a Super Bowl.

Whomever got Kemp 10th owes at least five of the owners in this league a drink, or a Christmas card or an autographed Pete Rose baseball or something.

Captain Hook · Post by **Captain Hook** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:29 am

TOXIC ASSETS wrote:There is no way R.A. Dickey should be drafted any lower than the 2nd round. What more does the guy need to do? Don't tell me its age because the dude throws a knuckleball. You can throw age out the window.

Interesting comment ......where do you have Dickey ranked amongst SP?
In most of these drafts there are only three pitchers drafted in the first two rounds - Verlander, Strasburg, and Kershaw

TOXIC ASSETS · Post by **TOXIC ASSETS** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:54 am

Re: Early NFBC Draft Results
by Captain Hook » Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:29 pm

TOXIC ASSETS wrote:
There is no way R.A. Dickey should be drafted any lower than the 2nd round. What more does the guy need to do? Don't tell me its age because the dude throws a knuckleball. You can throw age out the window.

Interesting comment ......where do you have Dickey ranked amongst SP?
In most of these drafts there are only three pitchers drafted in the first two rounds - Verlander, Strasburg, and Kershaw
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd rank him behind Strasburg for sure. Probably behind the other 2 as well. But not too far behind. First of all I'm a huge fan of his. But second, all three of those guys could be prone to injury with how hard they throw. With the knuckleballer it's not happening. Dickey is not throwing out his arm. This guy is not a one year wonder, now I'm not saying he will repeat 2012 next season. But I think he can get close. And I would certainly take him over many of the hitters that are being selected in the first two rounds.

Captain Hook · Post by **Captain Hook** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:41 pm

Not a one year wonder .... while I am a Dickey fan as well and have owned him on different teams over the past few years, let's take a look

We have to exclude all the seasons prior to 2010 because he only started half the games he was in for 2003,2004,2008 and he didn't pitch more than 64 innings in 2005,2006, 2009

2010 174 IP 2.84 ERA 1.19 WHIP 104 K 5.4 K/9 11 W
2011 209 IP 3.28 ERA 1.23 WHIP 134 K 5.8 K/9 8 W
2012 234 IP 2.73 ERA 1.05 WHIP 230 K 8.9 K/9 20 W
(hopefully this formatting held)

First question is where did the dramatic rise in strikeouts come from? And are you willing to bet it will be there again because he has never showed those rates before

Next the value from Wins - do you really think he will win 20 games again this year?

Again I like Dickey too but your statement seems to be valuing his career year as something that he will definitely repeat in 2013

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:50 pm

Okay, here's another set of draft results to keep you guys in the mood for drafting. Enjoy.

NFBC Draft Champions League
1st Round:
1 1 Mike Trout CF
1 2 Ryan Braun LF
1 3 Miguel Cabrera 3B
1 4 Robinson Cano 2B
1 5 Matt Kemp CF
1 6 Andrew McCutchen CF
1 7 Joey Votto 1B
1 8 Albert Pujols 1B
1 9 Buster Posey C
1 10 Justin Verlander SP
1 11 Prince Fielder 1B
1 12 Carlos Gonzalez LF
1 13 Stephen Strasburg SP
1 14 Josh Hamilton CF
1 15 Evan Longoria 3B

2nd Round:
2 1 Troy Tulowitzki SS
2 2 Clayton Kershaw SP
2 3 Jose Bautista RF
2 4 Hanley Ramirez SS
2 5 Justin Upton RF
2 6 Adrian Beltre 3B
2 7 Ryan Zimmerman 3B
2 8 David Wright 3B
2 9 Jason Heyward RF
2 10 Giancarlo Stanton RF
2 11 Chase Headley 3B
2 12 David Price SP
2 13 Dustin Pedroia 2B
2 14 Edwin Encarnacion 1B
2 15 Jose Reyes SS

3rd Round:
3 1 Jered Weaver SP
3 2 Aramis Ramirez 3B
3 3 Jacoby Ellsbury CF
3 4 Ian Desmond SS
3 5 Adam Jones CF
3 6 Ian Kinsler 2B
3 7 Matt Holliday LF
3 8 Curtis Granderson CF
3 9 Starlin Castro SS
3 10 Adrian Gonzalez 1B
3 11 Felix Hernandez SP
3 12 Billy Butler DH
3 13 Bryce Harper CF
3 14 Matt Cain SP
3 15 Joe Mauer C

4th Round
4 1 Ben Zobrist RF
4 2 B.J. Upton CF
4 3 Craig Kimbrel MR
4 4 Carlos Santana C
4 5 Jay Bruce RF
4 6 Allen Craig 1B
4 7 Cole Hamels SP
4 8 Brett Lawrie 3B
4 9 Gio Gonzalez SP
4 10 Cliff Lee SP
4 11 Chris Sale SP
4 12 Zack Greinke SP
4 13 Jimmy Rollins SS
4 14 Yoenis Cespedes CF
4 15 Mark Teixeira 1B

5th Round:
5 1 Alex Rios RF
5 2 Yu Darvish SP
5 3 Madison Bumgarner SP
5 4 Yadier Molina C
5 5 Jason Kipnis 2B
5 6 Paul Goldschmidt 1B
5 7 Brandon Phillips 2B
5 8 Aaron Hill 2B
5 9 R.A. Dickey SP
5 10 Victor Martinez C
5 11 Michael Bourn CF
5 12 Shin-Soo Choo RF
5 13 Corey Hart 1B
5 14 Matt Wieters C
5 15 Kris Medlen SP

6th Round:
6 1 CC Sabathia SP
6 2 Jonathan Papelbon MR
6 3 Aroldis Chapman MR
6 4 Elvis Andrus SS
6 5 Desmond Jennings LF
6 6 Adam Wainwright SP
6 7 Freddie Freeman 1B
6 8 Hunter Pence RF
6 9 Pablo Sandoval 3B
6 10 Jordan Zimmermann SP
6 11 Wilin Rosario C
6 12 Alex Gordon LF
6 13 Yovani Gallardo SP
6 14 Jose Altuve 2B
6 15 Max Scherzer SP

Thoughts?

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:55 pm

Oh, what the hell. One more for the weekend. Enjoy all.

NFBC Draft Champions League
1st Round:
1 1 Mike Trout CF
1 2 Ryan Braun LF
1 3 Miguel Cabrera 3B
1 4 Matt Kemp CF
1 5 Andrew McCutchen CF
1 6 Robinson Cano 2B
1 7 Josh Hamilton CF
1 8 Albert Pujols 1B
1 9 Joey Votto 1B
1 10 Stephen Strasburg SP
1 11 Justin Verlander SP
1 12 Buster Posey C
1 13 Carlos Gonzalez LF
1 14 Prince Fielder 1B
1 15 Hanley Ramirez SS

2nd Round:
2 1 Adrian Beltre 3B
2 2 David Wright 3B
2 3 Clayton Kershaw SP
2 4 Evan Longoria 3B
2 5 Jose Bautista RF
2 6 Edwin Encarnacion 1B
2 7 Troy Tulowitzki SS
2 8 Giancarlo Stanton RF
2 9 David Price SP
2 10 Jose Reyes SS
2 11 Justin Upton RF
2 12 Ian Kinsler 2B
2 13 Jacoby Ellsbury CF
2 14 Dustin Pedroia 2B
2 15 Felix Hernandez SP

3rd Round:
3 1 Adrian Gonzalez 1B
3 2 Aramis Ramirez 3B
3 3 Curtis Granderson CF
3 4 Jason Heyward RF
3 5 Adam Jones CF
3 6 Matt Holliday LF
3 7 Chase Headley 3B
3 8 Starlin Castro SS
3 9 Ryan Zimmerman 3B
3 10 Matt Cain SP
3 11 Bryce Harper CF
3 12 Zack Greinke SP
3 13 Ian Desmond SS
3 14 Craig Kimbrel MR
3 15 Gio Gonzalez SP

4th Round:
4 1 Jay Bruce RF
4 2 Yoenis Cespedes CF
4 3 Paul Goldschmidt 1B
4 4 Jason Kipnis 2B
4 5 B.J. Upton CF
4 6 Billy Butler DH
4 7 Cole Hamels SP
4 8 Ben Zobrist RF
4 9 Allen Craig 1B
4 10 Jered Weaver SP
4 11 Madison Bumgarner SP
4 12 Joe Mauer C
4 13 Jimmy Rollins SS
4 14 Yu Darvish SP
4 15 Cliff Lee SP

5th Round:
5 1 Mark Teixeira 1B
5 2 Aaron Hill 2B
5 3 Brandon Phillips 2B
5 4 R.A. Dickey SP
5 5 Desmond Jennings LF
5 6 Alex Rios RF
5 7 Corey Hart 1B
5 8 Brett Lawrie 3B
5 9 Carlos Santana C
5 10 Elvis Andrus SS
5 11 CC Sabathia SP
5 12 Matt Moore SP
5 13 Aroldis Chapman MR
5 14 Chris Sale SP
5 15 Wilin Rosario C

6th Round:
6 1 Mike Napoli C
6 2 Yadier Molina C
6 3 Kris Medlen SP
6 4 Alex Gordon LF
6 5 Matt Wieters C
6 6 Michael Bourn CF
6 7 Adam Wainwright SP
6 8 Victor Martinez C
6 9 Jason Motte MR
6 10 Roy Halladay SP
6 11 James Shields SP
6 12 Jonathan Papelbon MR
6 13 Shin-Soo Choo RF
6 14 Freddie Freeman 1B
6 15 Nelson Cruz RF

Thoughts?

TOXIC ASSETS · Post by **TOXIC ASSETS** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:39 pm

Re: Early NFBC Draft Results
by Captain Hook » Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:41 pm

Not a one year wonder .... while I am a Dickey fan as well and have owned him on different teams over the past few years, let's take a look

We have to exclude all the seasons prior to 2010 because he only started half the games he was in for 2003,2004,2008 and he didn't pitch more than 64 innings in 2005,2006, 2009

2010 174 IP 2.84 ERA 1.19 WHIP 104 K 5.4 K/9 11 W
2011 209 IP 3.28 ERA 1.23 WHIP 134 K 5.8 K/9 8 W
2012 234 IP 2.73 ERA 1.05 WHIP 230 K 8.9 K/9 20 W
(hopefully this formatting held)

First question is where did the dramatic rise in strikeouts come from? And are you willing to bet it will be there again because he has never showed those rates before

Next the value from Wins - do you really think he will win 20 games again this year?

Again I like Dickey too but your statement seems to be valuing his career year as something that he will definitely repeat in 2013
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We have to exclude all of his work before 2010 but not for the reasons you listed --- we have to exclude those games because he wasn't throwing the knuckleball at the time. We are really looking at 2 different careers here.

I would say that the strikeout increase came from his absolute mastery of the toughest pitch to throw. I would bet that he again strikes out at least 200.

I agree with you about the wins. He won't get to 20 again, that was a fluke on a team like the Mets. But I'll give him 15 wins without a problem.

BK METS · Post by **BK METS** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:09 pm

Greg Ambrosius wrote:Okay, here's another set of draft results to keep you guys in the mood for drafting. Enjoy.

NFBC Draft Champions League
1st Round:
1 1 Mike Trout CF
1 2 Ryan Braun LF
1 3 Miguel Cabrera 3B
1 4 Robinson Cano 2B
1 5 Matt Kemp CF
1 6 Andrew McCutchen CF
1 7 Joey Votto 1B
1 8 Albert Pujols 1B
1 9 Buster Posey C
1 10 Justin Verlander SP
1 11 Prince Fielder 1B
1 12 Carlos Gonzalez LF
1 13 Stephen Strasburg SP
1 14 Josh Hamilton CF
1 15 Evan Longoria 3B

2nd Round:
2 1 Troy Tulowitzki SS
2 2 Clayton Kershaw SP
2 3 Jose Bautista RF
2 4 Hanley Ramirez SS
2 5 Justin Upton RF
2 6 Adrian Beltre 3B
2 7 Ryan Zimmerman 3B
2 8 David Wright 3B
2 9 Jason Heyward RF
2 10 Giancarlo Stanton RF
2 11 Chase Headley 3B
2 12 David Price SP
2 13 Dustin Pedroia 2B
2 14 Edwin Encarnacion 1B
2 15 Jose Reyes SS

3rd Round:
3 1 Jered Weaver SP
3 2 Aramis Ramirez 3B
3 3 Jacoby Ellsbury CF
3 4 Ian Desmond SS
3 5 Adam Jones CF
3 6 Ian Kinsler 2B
3 7 Matt Holliday LF
3 8 Curtis Granderson CF
3 9 Starlin Castro SS
3 10 Adrian Gonzalez 1B
3 11 Felix Hernandez SP
3 12 Billy Butler DH
3 13 Bryce Harper CF
3 14 Matt Cain SP
3 15 Joe Mauer C

4th Round
4 1 Ben Zobrist RF
4 2 B.J. Upton CF
4 3 Craig Kimbrel MR
4 4 Carlos Santana C
4 5 Jay Bruce RF
4 6 Allen Craig 1B
4 7 Cole Hamels SP
4 8 Brett Lawrie 3B
4 9 Gio Gonzalez SP
4 10 Cliff Lee SP
4 11 Chris Sale SP
4 12 Zack Greinke SP
4 13 Jimmy Rollins SS
4 14 Yoenis Cespedes CF
4 15 Mark Teixeira 1B

5th Round:
5 1 Alex Rios RF
5 2 Yu Darvish SP
5 3 Madison Bumgarner SP
5 4 Yadier Molina C
5 5 Jason Kipnis 2B
5 6 Paul Goldschmidt 1B
5 7 Brandon Phillips 2B
5 8 Aaron Hill 2B
5 9 R.A. Dickey SP
5 10 Victor Martinez C
5 11 Michael Bourn CF
5 12 Shin-Soo Choo RF
5 13 Corey Hart 1B
5 14 Matt Wieters C
5 15 Kris Medlen SP

6th Round:
6 1 CC Sabathia SP
6 I 2 Jonathan Papelbon MR
6 3 Aroldis Chapman MR
6 4 Elvis Andrus SS
6 5 Desmond Jennings LF Yu
6 6 Adam Wainwright SP
6 7 Freddie Freeman 1B
6 8 Hunter Pence RF
6 9 Pablo Sandoval 3B
6 10 Jordan Zimmermann SP
6 11 Wilin Rosario C
6 12 Alex Gordon LF
6 13 Yovani Gallardo SP
6 14 Jose Altuve 2B
6 15 Max Scherzer SP

Thoughts?

I am in this draft and I watched as RA Dickey kept dropping all the way to the 5th round. Since I took Strasburg at 13, I didn't want to take another starter that early but was very tempted. The one downfall I see with drafting him is if he gets traded to the AL. I think his value drops significantly. But seeing guys like Yu Darvish go before him, it was tearing me up.

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:13 pm

Dickey started throwing the knuckle ball in 2005. The Rangers wanted him to imitate Tim Wakefield. Two things happen when a team wants you to throw a knuckle ball-
One- They're the employer and you want to make them happy
two- They think you suck otherwise, and the knuckler is a lifeboat.

Dickey started throwing it the way the Rangers told him....but he didn't like it.
He started practicing the pitch on his own, throwing 500-600 pitches at a time (take that pitch counters!)
Dickey realized that he had a better arm than Wakefield and instead of throwing 65 mph knucks, his would be in the 75-77 mph range.
As the years have passed, he's gotten better at throwing it and his numbers reflect that.
When peering in at the catchers signal, he tries to picture an inverted shoebox.
Either on the inside or outside of the plate.
He thinks that this also gives him an advantage since most pitchers are trying to nick a corner.

Will he have a similar year?
That's a tough one.
Phil Niekro, who is closer to Dickey's style than Wakefield's, and is a Hall of Fame knuckle baller, said that he never, ever had a streak like Dickey did this year.
He would have games where the knuckler mastered him, instead of him mastering the knuckler.
Dickey had a streak of walking only three batters in forty innings and averaged walking only a batter and a half per game over the course of the season. That'll be tougher to repeat than the k's.
His ERA was 2.00 and 2.97 in August and September, so it is not like National League teams were 'figuring him out'.
My guess is that Dickey does well next year.
I don't think he'll go as highly as his numbers reflect though in NFBC drafts. A lot of drafters just plain do not want to see a guy like Dickey spearheading their staff.
It's still considered a gimmick pitch and most folks keep their distance from gimmicks.

BK METS · Post by **BK METS** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:27 pm

5th round is probably the lowest a previous Cy Young Award winner has ever been drafted.

BK METS · Post by **BK METS** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:29 pm

DOUGHBOYS wrote:Dickey started throwing the knuckle ball in 2005. The Rangers wanted him to imitate Tim Wakefield. Two things happen when a team wants you to throw a knuckle ball-
One- They're the employer and you want to make them happy
two- They think you suck otherwise, and the knuckler is a lifeboat.

Dickey started throwing it the way the Rangers told him....but he didn't like it.
He started practicing the pitch on his own, throwing 500-600 pitches at a time (take that pitch counters!)
Dickey realized that he had a better arm than Wakefield and instead of throwing 65 mph knucks, his would be in the 75-77 mph range.
As the years have passed, he's gotten better at throwing it and his numbers reflect that.
When peering in at the catchers signal, he tries to picture an inverted shoebox.
Either on the inside or outside of the plate.
He thinks that this also gives him an advantage since most pitchers are trying to nick a corner.

Will he have a similar year?
That's a tough one.
Phil Niekro, who is closer to Dickey's style than Wakefield's, and is a Hall of Fame knuckle baller, said that he never, ever had a streak like Dickey did this year.
He would have games where the knuckler mastered him, instead of him mastering the knuckler.
Dickey had a streak of walking only three batters in forty innings and averaged walking only a batter and a half over the course of the season. That'll be tougher to repeat than the k's.
His ERA was 2.00 and 2.97 in August and September, so it is not like National League teams were 'figuring him out'.
My guess is that Dickey does well next year.
I don't think he'll go as highly as his numbers reflect though in NFBC drafts. A lot of drafters just plain do not want to see a guy like Dickey spearheading their staff.
It's still considered a gimmick pitch and most folks keep their distance from gimmicks.

Dickey has a high fast knuckler which has never been attempted before. I watched every Dickey start this year and this pitch was nearly unhittable. Hitters didn't have time to react since they expected it drop and it didn't. Since RA is as unique of a pitcher that's every pitched, mastering a pitch that he doesn't even know where its going, it is possible he loses the amazing control he had in 2012. But with his will and heart and determination to improve, it wouldn't surprise me to see him come up with yet another version of the knuckle ball and continue to baffle hitters. His strikeout to walk rate has never been even remotely matched by any knuckle ball pitcher ever. Gimmick or not, he is an amazing story.

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:38 pm

On the other hand, it might be said that Dickey could be even better next year.
Phil Niekro struck out over 700 batters in three years. Yes, yes he pitched every fourth day.
What if Dickey were traded back to the Rangers and has Nolan Ryan ask him to pitch every four days?
Niekro's 262 k's in a season could be in jeopardy.

BK METS · Post by **BK METS** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:59 pm

DOUGHBOYS wrote:On the other hand, it might be said that Dickey could be even better next year.
Phil Niekro struck out over 700 batters in three years. Yes, yes he pitched every fourth day.
What if Dickey were traded back to the Rangers and has Nolan Ryan ask him to pitch every four days.
Niekro's 262 k's in a season could be in jeopardy.

The big difference is, Phil Niekro, in his 262K season, had 164 walks!!! Dickey's 230K's to 54 Walks is amazing.

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:08 pm

What could be even more amazing is that Niekro did not have the most strike outs OR walks that season.
He finished second in both categories to Nolan Ryan. Ryan went 341/204.
A 1-2 punch with a 30 mph difference.

swampass · Post by **swampass** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:17 pm

Id like to start an Edwin Encarnacion discussion. At first i was seeing this guy go in the 3rd round and that felt pretty darn high,but the latest draft results have him going in the middle of the 2nd round. he is going 10 picks in front of adrian gonzalez. i know adrian performed slightly below expectations last season, but when i look at numbers i see one guy who has had 100 runs and/or 100 rbi pretty regularly vs a guy who has had 100 rbi once.

any ency defenders out there? id love t hear why im crazy and why he is primed to do it again because as of right now im letting him pass and ill go after the guy everyone had to have LAST YEAR in eric hosmer rounds later.

sephrath · Post by **sephrath** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:35 pm

Comparing Dickey to other knuckleballers doesn't make sense IMO, because he actually commands it, he throws it hard more than 10mph harder then previous knuckleballers, and because he throws it hard, he is able to throw in the strikezone. In fact if Dickey repeats his success (or even comes close) we might see a new breed of knuckleballers quickly emerge.

To me the biggest risk with Dickey is that was his success predicated on a gimmick, like some pitchers funky delivery, and will major league hitters as they get more tape and more experience vs. it be able to adjust.

Dickey also cannot pitch on short rest regularly like other knuckleballers because he is throwing the pitch hard, so that every 4 days, 300ip doesnt work here either.

BK METS · Post by **BK METS** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:09 pm

sephrath wrote:Comparing Dickey to other knuckleballers doesn't make sense IMO, because he actually commands it, he throws it hard more than 10mph harder then previous knuckleballers, and because he throws it hard, he is able to throw in the strikezone. In fact if Dickey repeats his success (or even comes close) we might see a new breed of knuckleballers quickly emerge.

To me the biggest risk with Dickey is that was his success predicated on a gimmick, like some pitchers funky delivery, and will major league hitters as they get more tape and more experience vs. it be able to adjust.

Dickey also cannot pitch on short rest regularly like other knuckleballers because he is throwing the pitch hard, so that every 4 days, 300ip doesnt work here either.

I agree with this, but what hitters have already said about Dickey is, they can watch hours and hours of tape and see him pitch 100 times and because the pitch is so unpredictable (some players have said that they actually have seen the ball rise), it is not like anyone can master hitting him, when there is no much uncertainty in what the ball is going to do. I think his downfall could be, he loses the amazing control he has to throw strikes. Does this mean there will be a new trend of knuckleballers? I am not sure. Many have thrown it and no one has been able to control it like Dickey. A very hard act to follow.