PED's and me

[uky]

I am, have been, always will be a baseball fan. I don't consider myself a traditionalist, though I loved baseball more when I was growing up, than I do now. Age reference, I have gray hair (but it is hair) and four, soon to be five, grand darlings. I saw McGwire plenty of times in St. Louis. Batting practice was phenomenal. Hell, it was almost worth the price of admission. There's no telling how many players have used, are using, or will use PED's. We may never know. Personally, I'm not sure I even care anymore. One thing for sure, as long as they are being paid big $$$, they are going to take their chances to stay in "THE SHOW". And, I'm not sure I don't blame them for doing what they do to make the big bucks. People say they're cheating the game. Yes, they are, but that fact could be relative. Face it, the HOF has more problems with PED's than MLB owners. As long as it puts butts in the seats, who cares?

The purpose of my observation or rant has nothing to do with the game. My problem is spending $$$ to play fantasy baseball and have your season ruined with the uncertainty of the players you drafted. We look at stats, history, injury concerns and rank or project accordingly. We can't rank or project PED's. Ask the Braun owners who drafted him this year. The unknown of one of your top players using PED's can ruin your season.

I'm just not sure anymore it's worth the gamble of my money with such an uncontrollable, unknown out there. And I firmly believe it is uncontrollable, unknown, and out of control.

[Atlas]

PED suspensions could only help my team.

[lrr]

With all the uncertainty given injuries, etc., I am amazed that the same team owners are near the top year after year. I bet this year even if there are massive suspensions, that will not change.

[Bronx Yankees]

While I would feel badly for anyone who loses a key player on their fantasy team due to a PED suspension that truly was a surprise, I don't think many Braun owners fall into that camp (or ARod owners or Cruz owners, etc). This story has been out for a while, and with the possible exception of early slow drafts, everyone who drafted Braun did so knowing he had this cloud over his head. Folks weighed the odds and risks and determined where to draft him (just like those heading into 2012 who drafted him after the suspension was announced but before his appeal was granted). Thus, while I hate that we still have to hear and read about PEDs, this is just one more risk we all have to deal with when compiling our teams. In a sense, it is like an injury risk. You can avoid the Tulos and Ellsburys and focus on historically healthy guys and still get kicked in the shorts with a freak injury. Sucks for all of us, and I wish PEDs would go away, but it does not upset the level playing field for the fantasy competition any more than injuries (in my opinion, of course).

Mike

[uky]

I totally agree. I wasn't one to invest in any of the suspected users for this year, but I did have Melky last year. You work all year to use your FAAB money and get your team set for the stretch run, then BOOM, he's gone. I realize it can be treated like an injury, but it's not. It's the way the game has changed, and I'm tired of it. Until they start banning people from the sport for cheating the game, it'll never stop. That may sound like harsh punishment, but tough s**t.

JMO

[Greg Ambrosius]

I am, have been, always will be a baseball fan. I don't consider myself a traditionalist, though I loved baseball more when I was growing up, than I do now. Age reference, I have gray hair (but it is hair) and four, soon to be five, grand darlings. I saw McGwire plenty of times in St. Louis. Batting practice was phenomenal. Hell, it was almost worth the price of admission. There's no telling how many players have used, are using, or will use PED's. We may never know. Personally, I'm not sure I even care anymore. One thing for sure, as long as they are being paid big $$$, they are going to take their chances to stay in "THE SHOW". And, I'm not sure I don't blame them for doing what they do to make the big bucks. People say they're cheating the game. Yes, they are, but that fact could be relative. Face it, the HOF has more problems with PED's than MLB owners. As long as it puts butts in the seats, who cares?

The purpose of my observation or rant has nothing to do with the game. My problem is spending $$$ to play fantasy baseball and have your season ruined with the uncertainty of the players you drafted. We look at stats, history, injury concerns and rank or project accordingly. We can't rank or project PED's. Ask the Braun owners who drafted him this year. The unknown of one of your top players using PED's can ruin your season.

I'm just not sure anymore it's worth the gamble of my money with such an uncontrollable, unknown out there. And I firmly believe it is uncontrollable, unknown, and out of control.

I think this is a very worthy post and it's definitely one of my concerns about this whole "investigation". I talked about it last night on our STATS Fantasy Advantage show. The last thing Major League Baseball cares about right now is how this latest PEDs investigation hurts their side industries like fantasy baseball, baseball card collecting, etc. But no matter how you look at it, this can't help ANY of these side industries, or attendance. MLB attendance is already down 3% this year and I don't see how airing this dirty laundry months before any evidence is going to be revealed helps any of this.

As for fantasy baseball, I agree with Bill. This feels like 1994 all over again when we all invested a lot of time and money in the fantasy baseball season. Back then we didn't have leagues like the NFBC, so we were all invested in our local leagues or a few national salary cap contests. But the kick in the nuts when the players went on strike on Aug. 11th was nothing to the kick in the groin that Bud Selig gave us in September when he cancelled the rest of the regular season and the playoffs. He just took away a season that we had all invested in and nobody could change that. Then to make it worse -- you actually could make it worse -- they didn't settle the strike until mid-April of 1995 and that ruined the start of the 1995 season. So they basically ruined two years of fantasy baseball and allowed fantasy football to zoom past them and become the biggest force in the industry. Make no mistake about it, fantasy baseball was bigger than fantasy football in the early 1990s, but 1994 changed everything.

So I am concerned that MLB's latest witch hunt is going to turn folks off to our great game and to America's Pastime. Listen, if the smoking gun is there on these guys then they get what they deserve right now. Deliver the evidence to us today, suspend them and let's clean up the game. The fact that they haven't even talked with Tony Bosch yet and are already saying they are going for 100-game suspensions is crazy and harmful to the game right now. Again, maybe they have more evidence than we know and I'm all for cleaning up the game, but I have a feeling this is going to drag on and on and on and guys like Bill will be sick of the game well before we finally get to any suspensions.

For Tom and me, it's not just about Ryan Braun and the Brewers. Who cares about them during a lost season anyway? It's about the growth of Major League Baseball and getting this right. Let's make no mistake about it: The owners have been hypocritical about PEDs. They had to know what some players were doing in the past and at every turn they rewarded those performances. Bonds, McGwire, Sosa, et al, were all rewarded for getting bigger and hitting more home runs. Hell, Melky Cabrera was suspended for 50-games last year and still received a 2-year, $16 million contract from the Blue Jays. And now he has 2 HRs and 2 SBs. Yeah, MLB really taught him a lesson. Sheesh.

Again, I'm all for cleaning up the game. I don't think you ever will when millions and millions of dollars are available to so many kids from poor backgrounds who are willing to take the chance with a lottery ticket waiting at the window. We're naive to think that Balco and Biogenesis are the last two retail stores for our loved athletes. EVERY athlete will look for that next edge. MLB and all the leagues need proof via testing and to work with the players to clean up the game first, have stiffer penalties so there is a real burden to beating the system, and then not reward those who were caught doing it. But if anyone thinks the owners are the good guys in this mess, they are really kidding themselves. Nobody profited more from this era than the owners and if they are serious about cleaning up the game then they better handle this next step right because the Players Association has to be involved, too. Just trouncing over their agreement and handing out 100-game suspensions mid-season without due process or leaking all of this information to friendly ESPN isn't the way to go. Get the proof that can't be denied, clean up the game and don't reward anyone who is guilty. Not too tough.

[Outlaw]

Greg your post touched on a lot of issues. I have been one in this little neck of the woods who has been interested in this story since it broke, right or wrong I have been very opinionated on it.

Both sides have been guilty for 60 years on this drug stuff..and both turned the blind eye. However that changed in 2001 after MLB used the roaring, slamming, HR Barrage late 90's to bring the Fan interest back up from the strike. Yes MLB used the players and vice versa. However there was and has been so much damage and bad press and bad examples set since it became a "problem" in the early 2000's. Both MLB and the Players have figured out the past 2-3 years they need to fix it and that's what they are trying doing now.

My angst with this stuff stems from what I personally believe about using PEDS and a first hand experience. My son and a friend of his were starting pitchers on a high school team together in the past 10 years. The one kid got drafted in the top 10 overall out of high school - he threw high 90's. He signed a huge bonus the same day he was drafted. We were all happy for him and his accomplishments. That same night the Head scout from the MLB Team called me and was asking for his stats and if I knew anything about him using Steroids. I gave him the Stats and said no to Roids because I was not sure, but the rumors were around. My kid asked me about them about a year earlier and we told him they were bad and if we ever caught him using them there would be hell to pay. The kids career was over after multiple injuries and surgery's in a few years. He blames Roids now and said everyone was doing it at the time. I believe it may have even been the same draft year as Braun. It was the only way you could get noticed he has said. He now preaches and advises young kids against using them.

Claiming due process and using the excuse they all do it and will always do it is BS - it doesn't justify it or will it ever make it right. MLB has lots of warts to be ashamed of, but they, the union and along with most players appear to be trying to fix this problem. Over 6 players have already admitted getting and using this stuff from this Clinic and other clinics and taken thier medicine. I'm not that naive to think that the others on the same sheets of paper, the same computer records, have done nothing wrong. Unfortunately for Braun and AROD they are the poster child's for this latest mess and if they do get suspended because the preponderance of evidence says they used, then they will be remembered for that and only that.

However the lesson to young kids, their parents , minor leaguers and even MLB players will be clearer than its ever been, if you use we will catch you and you will pay the price. Even today when I'm at the local HS and college games you can see the that some are still using and you hear the rumors and stories. At the Area Code games and Showcase clinics for teen players 10 years ago, Roids were all over.

Rumor has it the first three players getting suspended are Arod, Braun and Cruz... Arod also may indeed be thinking of telling the truth or at least the story he wants to tell and has changed his entire Legal and PR management team this week. My wondering mind says he might be thinking I admit now, I'll cut a deal for 50 games and be back for the end of this year. He knows full well if he does not get back this year he will end up just like Bonds, where no team wants him next year.

[DOUGHBOYS]

We are all invested in the steroid mess. We care. We want the whole steroid, PED thing to just go away and it won't.
Owners, the Commisioner, and the players union are all like political parties in that they don't address problems, they simply dole out excuses for what is happening.
The 50, 100 game suspensions are laughable. They are like punishing a child with a timeout. Like the child, they are miffed they were caught, but know that life returns to normal once the time out is over.
The 50 game suspension hurts the players team more than the individual himself. As Melky Cabrera has shown, that player can even thrive further with future contracts.

If caught gambling on baseball, a player would most likely be thrown out of baseball. The players union would fight for his re-instatement, but most likely, lose, and that player would be gone.
Zero tolerance.
Why isn't this way for the rule breaking of performance enhancing?
They both stem from a bad decision by the player, right?
MLB has to have the same thoughts towards cleaning up their game from the drug point of view. They need to get tougher in negotiations with the players union in that there will be zero tolerance of PED's or steroids.
The players union will look bad to the public if fighting this too harshly. I mean, who doesn't want to clean up the game, right Players Union?
In life, the public does not get small timeouts for bad decisions such as dui's or wife beating or taking drugs, yet with the rules as is, players can get away with the same offense twice before fearing a 'real' penalty.
That, that is not right.

In honesty, I can't blame the players now. They are getting time outs, while building stats and making more money. It is weighted too much towards cheating being more profitable. The morals of the players are all different. Some would never use, some think about it, some do it. We have to stop those from 'thinking about it' and those that do it.
Like common folks have in day to day life with our decisions, the best way to stop them is with a zero tolerance policy.
The players that have not been caught know that they have a 50 game safety net. Sure, they'll have to face public ridicule if caught, but nobody thinks they'll be caught. And even if caught, the 40 homers instead of 20 homers will net a larger contract in the future anyway.

As is, the ball is not in the players court. As is, the players are going to do what makes them the most money. And performance enhancing drugs is still a part of that equation.
The ball is in MLB's hands and the player union's hands. They can stop the problem.
And they know they can stop the problem.
But, like the political parties they have become, they'll talk, blame each other, and have long drawn out hearings instead of truly dealing with and solving the problem.
It's a shame.

[Outlaw]

We are all invested in the steroid mess. We care. We want the whole steroid, PED thing to just go away and it won't.
Owners, the Commisioner, and the players union are all like political parties in that they don't address problems, they simply dole out excuses for what is happening.
The 50, 100 game suspensions are laughable. They are like punishing a child with a timeout. Like the child, they are miffed they were caught, but know that life returns to normal once the time out is over.
The 50 game suspension hurts the players team more than the individual himself. As Melky Cabrera has shown, that player can even thrive further with future contracts.

If caught gambling on baseball, a player would most likely be thrown out of baseball. The players union would fight for his re-instatement, but most likely, lose, and that player would be gone.
Zero tolerance.
Why isn't this way for the rule breaking of performance enhancing?
They both stem from a bad decision by the player, right?
MLB has to have the same thoughts towards cleaning up their game from the drug point of view. They need to get tougher in negotiations with the players union in that there will be zero tolerance of PED's or steroids.
The players union will look bad to the public if fighting this too harshly. I mean, who doesn't want to clean up the game, right Players Union?
In life, the public does not get small timeouts for bad decisions such as dui's or wife beating or taking drugs, yet with the rules as is, players can get away with the same offense twice before fearing a 'real' penalty.
That, that is not right.

In honesty, I can't blame the players now. They are getting time outs, while building stats and making more money. It is weighted too much towards cheating being more profitable. The morals of the players are all different. Some would never use, some think about it, some do it. We have to stop those from 'thinking about it' and those that do it.
Like common folks have in day to day life with our decisions, the best way to stop them is with a zero tolerance policy.
The players that have not been caught know that they have a 50 game safety net. Sure, they'll have to face public ridicule if caught, but nobody thinks they'll be caught. And even if caught, the 40 homers instead of 20 homers will net a larger contract in the future anyway.

As is, the ball is not in the players court. As is, the players are going to do what makes them the most money. And performance enhancing drugs is still a part of that equation.
The ball is in MLB's hands and the player union's hands. They can stop the problem.
And they know they can stop the problem.
But, like the political parties they have become, they'll talk, blame each other, and have long drawn out hearings instead of truly dealing with and solving the problem.
It's a shame.

Well said Dough!! I met Tug McGraw as young kid at my school in 1970, the first major league player I ever met in person. He was a great pitcher and person and I have always remembered his famous phrase "Ya Gotta Believe" ... We have to believe they will clean this PEDS mess up and as bad as this stuff seems, I beleive they are now trying. Maybe they will also fix the 70 trillion dollar underfunded Medicare and SS problem before my kids get into their 60's, "Ya Gotta Belive"...

[KJ Duke]

Here's an idea to address your concern Dan ...

In addition to a 50-game suspension, one-half of the player's remaining contract over $1 million per season will instead be paid into a trust fund for PED enforcement. For any newly-signed contract thereafter for busted players, the signing team must match the player salary/bonus on a 1:1 basis over $1 mill, with a payment into the fund.

I think that would clean up the sport in about 2 seconds.

[Rog]

I also think they should hold the owners/team/management and whoever else hostage. Since (according to the players)most people have an idea on who is doing something. If a player gets caught the team cannot fill his roster spot, until the player is off suspension. I could imagine how pissed a few managers and teammates would get, and thus it would make it a little tougher for that player to get another contract. A caught suspension should also give the team with the rights to the player the ability to void a contract. I know none of this would happen but it would help

[Outlaw]

First offense on a test - suspended for 162 games for players currently in MLB. Lying about it and refusing to cooperate and found to have done so- lifetime ban.

Second offense on a test - Banned for life.

MLB could take it even further with the minor league players.

First offense- Banned from a MLB roster for 3 years and 1 year from affiliated minor ball.

MLB could take it even furthur with undrafted players.

Any failed test in amatuer athletics at the HS or college level, banned for 5 years from any part of a MLB orginization. 2 failed tests or lying at anytime- Banned for life.

money penalties will not work, too much of it in the game.

Guess how fast it would get cleaned up with simialr rules like the above.

[Outlaw]

Not for nothing, but these Hacks on MLB, the draft "experts" Are saying Jonathon Grey testing positive for Adderall without a prescription has helped his draft status and probably has vaulted him to the number 1 pick, because he should come cheaper. Nothing against the kid, but you dont get that stuff with out a prescription. I know having 3 close family members on it for ADHD. Seems 18 months ago he was throwing high 80's low 90's, now a 100. there is reason MLB bans it and even the newest Drug agreement bans it. Ruiz took a 25 game hit for it. Exceptions exist in MLB and in sports for diagnosed by a legit doctor cases of kids or players with ADHD or other neurological issues. Even the newest policy allows for Drafted players to pay a penalty immedialtely. Seems they are waiving and ingnoring it with Grey.

Last I knew Adderall, is a powerful stimulant and amphetime and definatley increases performance in people who don't need it. The past 3 years it has been become very in vouge througout sports and the amatuer levels and can be used quite effectivley to mask positive tests for PEDS. MLB I believe has allowed currently 110 or so Exepemtions throughout the minors and majors.

I wonder if any team that drafts him will ask why? who gave it to you? do you ahve ADHD? How did you get without a prescript? simple questions to simple minded people, but these days the truth is fleeting...

no wonder these issues exist.

[Atlas]

Nothing against the kid, but you dont get that stuff with out a prescription. I know having 3 close family members on it for ADHD. ... for diagnosed by a legit doctor cases of kids or players with ADHD or other neurological issues.

I wonder if any team that drafts him will ask why? who gave it to you? do you ahve ADHD? How did you get without a prescript? simple questions to simple minded people, but these days the truth is fleeting...

no wonder these issues exist.

My ex wife ran my (then) 8 year old daughter into not one, not two, but three different MD's and convinced 2 out of the 3 that she was ADHD WITHOUT A SINGLE TEST.

The only reason the 3rd didn't have a chance to fall for it was because I intercepted the appointment and demanded testing. He ran tests and declared her not in need of the meds.

I embarrassed the other two by questioning their findings and methods and they rescinded the medication each time.
ADHD is becoming the diagnosis du jour. It's very easy to get with minimal justification. Go in and describe symptoms that you can find listed anywhere and *presto* most general practitioners will write the script.

[Outlaw]

Nothing against the kid, but you dont get that stuff with out a prescription. I know having 3 close family members on it for ADHD. ... for diagnosed by a legit doctor cases of kids or players with ADHD or other neurological issues.

I wonder if any team that drafts him will ask why? who gave it to you? do you ahve ADHD? How did you get without a prescript? simple questions to simple minded people, but these days the truth is fleeting...

no wonder these issues exist.

My ex wife ran my (then) 8 year old daughter into not one, not two, but three different MD's and convinced 2 out of the 3 that she was ADHD WITHOUT A SINGLE TEST.

The only reason the 3rd didn't have a chance to fall for it was because I intercepted the appointment and demanded testing. He ran tests and declared her not in need of the meds.

I embarrassed the other two by questioning their findings and methods and they rescinded the medication each time.
ADHD is becoming the diagnosis du jour. It's very easy to get with minimal justification. Go in and describe symptoms that you can find listed anywhere and *presto* most general practitioners will write the script.

Atals, Agreed, but you still need a script and Diag to get the stuff. I get that too many parents and school systems use it to fix kids that are not broken, but just lack a little discipline. The stuff is being handed out like candy these days to the young kids and the schools drive a lot of that towards the parents. Not knowing anything, Sounds like your ex-wife may have believed the stuff can fix kids too, that dont need fixing by drugs. Good for you for demanding the testing. The testing ususally for ASD and ADD symptoms/Diagnosis usually takes at least 2 multi hour sessions and a few weeks to be clinically reviewed and kudos to you for protecting your kids

I would ask Greys parents did they do that for thier kid, a simple Question? if not how did he get it and why was he using the drug. I approached the kids parents I spoke about in another post, who just so happenend to be also drafted number 3 out of HS and told them about the call I got from the scout the night of the draft. They told me he never has used and that was that. A few years later he admits. 5 months after he was drafted his rotator cuff is torn apart. Roids, you bet.

[JimyMarlboroBallgame]

All and all, let's not forget that Braun tested POSITIVE already. He got off on the biggest joke I've ever heard in my life. We know he was roiding or juicing, etc. Yet, just like Lance Armstrong, he will continue to protect the lies. Maybe we'll see him on Oprah too pretty soon.