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This is pretty much what I expected. It's been clear for some time some players and the Players Union were going to fight this as hard as they can. It never made sense to me that suspensions could impact this season given how the appeals process could work, especially if MLB attempts to suspend players without failed drug tests. There was no way this process was going to unfold as easily as some reports (most notably from ESPN) tried leading people to believe.

Tom ‏@Haudricourt
MLBPA director Michael Weiners says appeals of Biogenesis suspensions not likely before September. Therefore might not affect 2013 season.

This is pretty much the least surprising development of all time.

Hells Satans wrote:This is pretty much the least surprising development of all time.

Agreed. I never expected this season to be impacted by this situation. This always had the makings of a long, drawn-out affair and it could end up as one of the biggest fights between MLB and the Players Union that we've ever seen.

Tom Kessenich wrote:This is pretty much what I expected. It's been clear for some time some players and the Players Union were going to fight this as hard as they can. It never made sense to me that suspensions could impact this season given how the appeals process could work, especially if MLB attempts to suspend players without failed drug tests. There was no way this process was going to unfold as easily as some reports (most notably from ESPN) tried leading people to believe.

Tom ‏@Haudricourt
MLBPA director Michael Weiners says appeals of Biogenesis suspensions not likely before September. Therefore might not affect 2013 season.

There has been some speculation that certain players would accept their suspension without appealing. These are players that supposedly cooperated and will receive preferential penalties. If this is the case, how could this not impact this season?

Money wrote:

Tom Kessenich wrote:This is pretty much what I expected. It's been clear for some time some players and the Players Union were going to fight this as hard as they can. It never made sense to me that suspensions could impact this season given how the appeals process could work, especially if MLB attempts to suspend players without failed drug tests. There was no way this process was going to unfold as easily as some reports (most notably from ESPN) tried leading people to believe.

Tom ‏@Haudricourt
MLBPA director Michael Weiners says appeals of Biogenesis suspensions not likely before September. Therefore might not affect 2013 season.

There has been some speculation that certain players would accept their suspension without appealing. These are players that supposedly cooperated and will receive preferential penalties. If this is the case, how could this not impact this season?

I think we need to put the brakes on all the speculation given how unfounded so much of it has been since January. Ultimately it will come down to what players are suspended and whom, if any, decline to appeal. Based on the comments from Weiners today there's no reason to believe this situation will be resolved during this season so any possible suspensions appear more likely to occur in 2014.

Money wrote:

Tom Kessenich wrote:This is pretty much what I expected. It's been clear for some time some players and the Players Union were going to fight this as hard as they can. It never made sense to me that suspensions could impact this season given how the appeals process could work, especially if MLB attempts to suspend players without failed drug tests. There was no way this process was going to unfold as easily as some reports (most notably from ESPN) tried leading people to believe.

Tom ‏@Haudricourt
MLBPA director Michael Weiners says appeals of Biogenesis suspensions not likely before September. Therefore might not affect 2013 season.

There has been some speculation that certain players would accept their suspension without appealing. These are players that supposedly cooperated and will receive preferential penalties. If this is the case, how could this not impact this season?

The only people I could see doing this is someone who is a FA next year. I might be a little worried if I was a Nelson Cruz owner.

If I'm the Tigers, I convince Peralta to appeal by telling him I'm picking up his option for next year.

Nevermind, they already picked up the option.

see the main Biogen thread as to why people should not cherry pick the actual Wiener statements. Tell the whole story.

I'm still waiting for the whole story to be told. Personally, I'm getting a little tired of the MLB-only side being broadcast so loudly. But that's clearly what MLB has been doing in my opinion. They want to try these players in the court of public opinion first. Sadly, all that's likely to do is bring about the type of labor unrest and legal fight this sport does not need. Based on all the comments coming from the Players Union in the last week or so it seems clear they're gearing up for a fight. Today's comments left little doubt in my mind that this season is not likely to be impacted by any potential suspensions. How big of a fight we'll eventually see will be determined by what evidence MLB is able to provide should they go forward with aggressive suspensions.

Good summary of today's comments from the Players Union by Tom Haudricourt, who covers the Brewers for the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel and is one of the most respected beat writers covering MLB.

By Tom Haudricourt of the Journal Sentinel Updated: 1:54 p.m.

Suspensions levied by Major League Baseball from its investigation into the Biogenesis clinic might not come down as soon as some people thought.

Players union director Michael Weiner told reporters Tuesday in New York for the All-Star Game that suspensions resulting from that investigation might not be served until the 2014 season.

Weiner said he expects MLB to notify the union of its plans for suspensions within the next month. MLB wants to announce the suspensions at that time but Weiner said the union will insist that nothing be announced until arbitrator Fredric Horowitz upholds them after hearings.

Weiner said those hearings likely wouldn't happen before September. As many as 20 players have been speculated as targets in the investigation, including the Brewers' Ryan Braun.

Weiner also said the 50-game, 100- game and lifetime bans that go with first, second and third offenses for failed drug tests might not apply to what is called "non-analytical" evidence -- such as anything produced linking a player to buying performance-enhancing drugs from Biogenesis. Accordingly, those punishments would have to be worked out between MLB and the union. So, any speculation at this point as to a possible length of a suspension for Braun is just that -- speculation.

Weiner said that because of the time needed to prepare and hold hearings, the case of any player challenging a penalty likely won't be decided during this season.

MLB has contended that it is allowed to announce suspensions before hearings are held because of a clause in the collective bargaining agreement that allows it to do so if names were made public beforehand. The union, obviously, does not agree.

Tom Kessenich wrote:I'm still waiting for the whole story to be told. Personally, I'm getting a little tired of the MLB-only side being broadcast so loudly. But that's clearly what MLB has been doing in my opinion. They want to try these players in the court of public opinion first. Sadly, all that's likely to do is bring about the type of labor unrest and legal fight this sport does not need. Based on all the comments coming from the Players Union in the last week or so it seems clear they're gearing up for a fight. Today's comments left little doubt in my mind that this season is not likely to be impacted by any potential suspensions. How big of a fight we'll eventually see will be determined by what evidence MLB is able to provide should they go forward with aggressive suspensions.

Unfortunatley we can only go on whats reported or learned. As for the leakers, do you know who they are? A few things about all the rumors/leaks these past 5 months. The story broke because a Biogen partner went to the Miami new times. MLB has been on to Biogen for at least 3 years. They kept what they were doing quite until the story broke. As for all the information, misinformation, opinions, leaks, some of it its true, some is not, bottom line the PEDS cheaters exist. When one considers possibly 80-90 players named, each player having an agent, each agent having staff, all the BioGen employees, the other clinics possibly involved, the 30 or so who have testified as part of the lawsuit, the other 20 plus who have voluntarily testified, MLB having dozens of hired professionals and its own employees working on this, clean players talking, you have hundreds of people involved with intimate knowledge of some or even a lot of the details. Who of all those people is leaking, probably more than just a couple. The Union says its not them and MLB steadfastly says its not them, so who is it? the fact remains, both Union and MLB have talked sparingly on the record and its left to anyone to determine what could be or not be from thier statements.

It is a sad mess baseball finds itself in. But it would be a strectch to think MLB caused this problem at this time. If the players didnt cheat and didnt do the PEDs, there would no story or problem.

The problem here is what's being reported may not be accurate and is clearly one-sided. This "story" has broken three times now since February. To this time there hasn't been a single suspension despite reports (most notably from ESPN) that massive thunderbolts were about to be dropped down from Mt. Olympus and players were going to be suspended this season and this season's outcome was going to be severely impacted. The last ESPN story insisted the suspensions were coming this week. As has so often been the case, that story was shot down today and yet again ESPN's reporting has proven to be ... I'll be kind here ... suspect.

Now perhaps those thunderbolts will eventually come hurling down upon some players. However, until that time comes I remain on the side of due process, something MLB has thumbed its collective nose at. Based on the comments from the Players Union in the last week or so it's obvious they're not happy with the manner in which this has all gone down nor should they be in my opinion. That is why I anticipate one helluva fight if MLB's rumored aggressive stance ultimately comes to fruition. And it's because I expect this fight to be lengthy that I don't anticipate any possible suspensions to impact play this season. Today's comments from the union made me even more confident that will be the case.

A take from Texas which mirrors the general reaction to the Players Union's comments today:

http://sportsblogs.star-telegram.com/fo ... eason.html

Tom Kessenich wrote:A take from Texas which mirrors the general reaction to the Players Union's comments today:

http://sportsblogs.star-telegram.com/fo ... eason.html

If I was a Rangers reporter I would look to the postive impact of not losing Cruz too for this season. However the the union is very concerned with Cruz accepting his suspension right away, so he can be like Melky next year contract wise.

It's unfortunate baseball is again stained with PEDS and has to go through this. I will say I am surprised at just how big the story has become, in terms of potential depth and amount of players involved. I think as you say, that due process is occurring and that is why nothing has happened as of yet. If it was small problem, it would've been dealt with already. I agree it is not right to accuse anyone without the proof and when you get all the alleged cheaters not cooperating, the proof has to be attained in other ways and due to the potential size of this problem, and with MLB "hopefully" attempting to be fair, it has taken longer than expected. I'm hoping the problem and the players are dealt with this season and this does not drag into next season. I still believe it will all be over shortly, but that's just my opinion and I respect your opinion that it will not be.

I wonder how many at bats Cruz and Cabrera get tonight?

Hope everyone enjoys the All Star game tonight.

Why would the union fight the suspensions if the overwhelming majority of the membership wants cheaters and PEDs out of the game?

What would be surprising to everyone is 90% player support for not fighting the suspensions.

Make a stand, guys who play clean!
Am I dreaming?

Deadheadz wrote:Why would the union fight the suspensions if the overwhelming majority of the membership wants cheaters and PEDs out of the game?

What would be surprising to everyone is 90% player support for not fighting the suspensions.

Make a stand, guys who play clean!
Am I dreaming?

Yes.

Also, as there is rampant speculation that there may be some greater suspension than what the JDA calls for, the leaks if true, can only have originated with mlb.

Not only is Bud Selig inept, he doesn't intend to change...From USA Today:

Selig, a 78-year-old former car dealer and owner of the Milwaukee Brewers, said he’s never used e-mail. And it wasn’t an admission—it was more a declaration. He said he “never will.”

As Wikileaks has shown us, the more you have to lose the less you can trust the security of voicemail and email.

I'm small potatoes so I do not fear losing my privacy but I can understand why someone like Selig would.



Cheers!

Deadheadz wrote:Why would the union fight the suspensions if the overwhelming majority of the membership wants cheaters and PEDs out of the game?

Because there is an agreed upon method in place which both the Union and MLB signed for how the process will be handled in the event of drug suspensions. All the union is asking for is that that process is followed. One could make a strong argument - and the union appears to have begun laying out the groundwork for such an argument - that this process has not been followed per the CBA and MLB has violated the agreement. The players are entitled to due process and there is a strong argument to be made MLB has ignored that repeatedly throughout this process. If due process had been followed we wouldn't even be discussing any of this since drug suspensions are supposed to be kept confidential until the actual suspensions are announced.

Tom Kessenich wrote:

Deadheadz wrote:Why would the union fight the suspensions if the overwhelming majority of the membership wants cheaters and PEDs out of the game?

Because there is an agreed upon method in place which both the Union and MLB signed for how the process will be handled in the event of drug suspensions. All the union is asking for is that that process is followed. One could make a strong argument - and the union appears to have begun laying out the groundwork for such an argument - that this process has not been followed per the CBA and MLB has violated the agreement. The players are entitled to due process and there is a strong argument to be made MLB has ignored that repeatedly throughout this process. If due process had been followed we wouldn't even be discussing any of this since drug suspensions are supposed to be kept confidential until the actual suspensions are announced.

I've seen this argument before and rolled my eyes.
The PRESS uncovered the names. The PRESS reported the names.
And now, a part of the PRESS criticises MLB for ignoring due process.
Holy Cow!

DOUGHBOYS wrote:

Tom Kessenich wrote:

Deadheadz wrote:Why would the union fight the suspensions if the overwhelming majority of the membership wants cheaters and PEDs out of the game?

Because there is an agreed upon method in place which both the Union and MLB signed for how the process will be handled in the event of drug suspensions. All the union is asking for is that that process is followed. One could make a strong argument - and the union appears to have begun laying out the groundwork for such an argument - that this process has not been followed per the CBA and MLB has violated the agreement. The players are entitled to due process and there is a strong argument to be made MLB has ignored that repeatedly throughout this process. If due process had been followed we wouldn't even be discussing any of this since drug suspensions are supposed to be kept confidential until the actual suspensions are announced.

I've seen this argument before and rolled my eyes.
The PRESS uncovered the names. The PRESS reported the names.
And now, a part of the PRESS chastises MLB for ignoring due process
Holy Cow!

How did I become part of the press, Dan? I'm a fan and in this case specifically a fantasy baseball player. I want to clean the game up as much as the next person but with all due respect I don't believe and never have believed that two wrongs make a right. And I have significant problems with how MLB has handled this matter.

How has MLB been out of line?
Their meetings have been behind closed doors. They haven't had press releases updating what they would like to do with the players.
I have been more frustrated by the press. They're reporting a different thing every day.
Wait till facts are released and quit guessing already!

But, back to the original question, how has MLB been out of line?

Darn it. I'll read the reply later, Tom.
Off to the ball park. I'll try to listen to the show tonight while there!

DOUGHBOYS wrote: But, back to the original question, how has MLB been out of line?

Somebody has been leaking this information dating back to February (even earlier if we want to look back upon Braun's failed test). My money is MLB. It bothers me that a confidential program has been violated repeatedly. Perhaps the leaks aren't coming from MLB but they sure haven't been the least bit bothered that the process has been tainted so badly.

Tom Kessenich wrote:

Deadheadz wrote:Why would the union fight the suspensions if the overwhelming majority of the membership wants cheaters and PEDs out of the game?

Because there is an agreed upon method in place which both the Union and MLB signed for how the process will be handled in the event of drug suspensions. All the union is asking for is that that process is followed. One could make a strong argument - and the union appears to have begun laying out the groundwork for such an argument - that this process has not been followed per the CBA and MLB has violated the agreement. The players are entitled to due process and there is a strong argument to be made MLB has ignored that repeatedly throughout this process. If due process had been followed we wouldn't even be discussing any of this since drug suspensions are supposed to be kept confidential until the actual suspensions are announced.

People ignore the facts. Where has MLB violated anything? MLB kept thier mouths shut for over 2 years while they continued thier efforts to find out what happened with these clinics. Did they ID certain players for more testing, you can bet they did. The Union leadership (non- players) are scrambling as indicated by Wieners own words today. MLB did not cause this problem, the cheating payers did.
The union leadership doesn't have a pot to piss on concerning this problem or is it a leg to stand on. These players broke not only baseball rules, but criminal laws too and for anyone to say that's a moral point view, so be it, but the fact remain its true. These players influence millions of children worldwide and here is one of the best examples anyone could find on the whole subject of illegal drug choice and children, staring none other than AROD as a 10 yr old boy.


This was written in 2002 when AROD did an interview ( BTW a time frame (2002) he later admitted to using PEDS in 2009 from 2001-2004):

Like so many players today when faced with questions about steroids, Keith Hernandez in 1985 vigorously and indignantly denied "any involvement with cocaine, ever," and yet four months later took the witness stand and described playing high and waking up in shaking fits and naming other players. Sounds eerily familiar about athletes lying and swearing to the fans they did nothing.

One of the kids who couldn't help but hear of it was a 10-year-old in Miami named Alex Rodriguez.

"As a fan, you don't want to believe it. It's surreal," Rodriguez recalls. "My hero was Keith Hernandez. If you had said anything bad about Keith I would call you a liar. It tarnished the purity of the game."

The tarnish is growing anew amid the growing realization that many players, particularly the celebrated sluggers, could be on steroids. Major league players have plenty of beefs with the owners, who have cheated and lied to them, and fans, who have harassed them. Yet the union has only its own membership to blame for the current mess. It is the players' responsibility -- not even Major League Baseball's -- to figure out a solution, enforce it, espouse why it's important, and make it a short-term blip in the game's history rather than an era-long travesty.

The Union leadership learned nothing from 12 years ago. Personally I would like to see Braun and AROD banned for life if they are in anyway involved. Then they can become this generations poster child's for cheating.


These are the facts about how the players feel.. 2 more clean players making statements today at the ALL STAR game... One can assume the type of message the clean players are sending to the union, is, you had better listen to us on this one.

Brandon Phillips: Asked if it would be a good or bad day for MLB if the suspensions become reality, Phillips said, "It's going to be a good day for me because my name is not on the list. No.2, it's going to be a bad day for the guys who could get kicked out of baseball and for all those guys who are sitting in their houses right now saying, "Dang, I could still be playing if not for that.'

Phillips, the former Indians' second baseman, continued. "The other bad thing is for the guys who might get suspended, they are going to hurt their teams," he said. "They could be the superstars on their teams and the next thing you know they could miss 50 to 100 games. That's going to be a bad thing."


Cliff Lee: While those facing possible penalties obviously can’t be pleased, a lot of major leaguers are glad to see justice being served. Like Cliff Lee.

“I think this is just proving that the system works,” Lee said of Major League Baseball’s drug policy.

Although some players might grow tired of the dark cloud that is PEDs following their sport around endlessly, Lee is glad he’s playing now as opposed to the 1990s, when steroid use wide spread and not penalized.

“Guys are getting caught,” Lee said before Tuesday's All-Star Game at Citi Field. “You’re not getting away with it anymore. It’s not like it’s a lingering issue. It’s proven that we’ve taken care of the issue. If you do it – no matter who you are – you’re going to get in trouble and suspended and everyone is going to know. To me it’s a good thing. I hope anyone that does steroids or anything like that, and they’re cheating the game, I hope they get caught and I hope they get suspended. That’s the way it should be.”

If this problem is as big as it appears, Selig is going to slam these cheats so hard, they are going to have no idea what hit them....They had opportunity to cooperate and they chose not to. CBA and JDP has nothing on the Best Interests of Baseball powers that exist.

The Players Union is already on record saying they do not approve of how MLB has handled this situation. They said today they do not approve of MLB's likely decision to announce the names of suspended players before appeals have been heard. We'll see how it all plays out but if push comes to shove the process is going to prove equally as important as cleaning up the game. Players want a clean game for sure so quotes from players saying they want a clean game mean nothing. Of course they're going to say that. Everyone is saying that. But players do not want their rights to be trampled in the process. Ask them how they feel about that if you want to paint a more accurate picture.

Dan, if I was still a member of the media that's the first question I'd be asking. That goes right to the heart of how the players union feels about how this matter has been handled thus far.