Derrek Lee

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 1:43 pm

Guys, I know there's been some confusion with regard to Derrek Lee's status for this weekend. Greg has been in Costa Rica on business for most of this week so he's likely spending time with his family today. I have e-mailed him to let him know the situation and we'll have to talk to STATS so we can see what exactly transpired with regard to Lee's eligibility yesterday.

Until I hear more from Greg and we talk to STATS there's not much more I can say about the situation but I wanted to let everyone know I've contacted Greg about the issue and we will be looking into it.

[ April 22, 2006, 07:44 PM: Message edited by: Tom Kessenich ]

Parnelli · Post by **Parnelli** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 2:29 pm

Tom, What is there to look at?? If you read rule #13.Those moves were perfectly legal......There is nothing in RULE 13 that even hints that those moves was illegal....

As a NFBC member(the only thing we have to go by is the rule stated on the home page.....)

The D Lee move was a legal move!!!!! If a NFBC member can't beat a team that just lost his #1 for 12 weeks......Than what does that say about the complainer......lol

Cooperstown · Post by **Cooperstown** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 4:09 pm

To repeat a post I put elsewhere.

In magazine league 1 I was not able to DL Lee on Friday morning even though a DL was by his name. My understanding is that the DL has to be there by Thursday night at Midnight, which I assumed it wasn't. But how were other leagues allowed this?

viper · Post by **viper** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 12:12 am

Please look at my post in "ask the NFBC a question" titled "DL clarification needed".

That said, I agree that the written rules must prevail in all areas of disputes. That is why they call them rules. If Lee was set as a DL anytime prior to that first game on Friday, he should be allowed to be benched.

I can't verify this but it seems that STATS set Lee as a DLed player sometime in the morning contrary to the wishes/requests from Greg that no players should be changed to a DLed status after midnight. That is the only plausible explainantion of Lee being on the DL because the Cubs did not DL him until Friday.

I have no idea why coops could not move Lee on Friday especially since a number of other teams were able to move him.

[ April 23, 2006, 06:14 AM: Message edited by: viper ]

Parnelli · Post by **Parnelli** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 2:39 am

Players must be officially be on the DL list ACCORDING TO STATS for this move to take effect for weekend games.

Last i checked D Lee was on the DL and ACCORDING TO STATS he was.

Hopefully the rules on the home page are good enough.I would hate to have to read 20,000 messages to find a rule change.

Vander · Post by **Vander** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 2:56 am

I had him listed on the dl also, but could not put in a replacement either.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 3:49 am

I have asked STATS to let me know exactly what happened on Friday so that I can know what happened. Lee was hurt on Wednesday night, so there definitely was no guarantee that he would be on the DL by Friday at 12:01 a.m. If he was, and it appears that he was according to STATS, then it's obvious that you could move in a reserve for his spot. That seems to be what happened. But I want to make sure that everyone had that access as I also received a call and a few e-mails saying they weren't able to move Lee to their reserve on Friday, so I want to make sure everyone had access to legally make this move.

Again, I wouldn't be concerned if someone got hurt on Wednesday night and he wasn't' officially put on the DL until Friday morning or night. The basis of this change was to allow owners to reserve a player who unknowingly went on the DL on Monday or Tuesday and got zeroes for the week. Lee getting hurt so badly on Wednesday and going on the DL quickly is a small "bonus" if you will, but it obviously won't make up for the loss of your star player.

Sorry about the injury to Lee as I was unable to get cable, Internet access or even e-mail for three days. It was enjoyable, but it makes you feel out of touch with the world. This is my first touch back since I returned, so let me find out exactly what happened and make sure we have it right. The DL rule we have in place has benefits to those owners who suffer injuries, but it has to be done consistently according to the rules. I'll make sure it was and is for the future.

Mudster · Post by **Mudster** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 4:43 am

As much as I like to see someone get screwed over by injuries, rule 13 is pretty clear. If Lee was placed on the DL on Friday before the games started, he could still be switched out legally as long as there were 5 minutes before the first game of the day. Maybe those who couldn't switch him out were trying a little to late for Friday's baseball schedule? Regardless, those who got the switch in should be allowed to keep it.

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 5:40 am

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

Lee was hurt on Wednesday night, so there definitely was no guarantee that he would be on the DL by Friday at 12:01 a.m. If he was, and it appears that he was according to STATS, then it's obvious that you could move in a reserve for his spot. That seems to be what happened.Sometime between 12 noon and 7pm on Friday, Derrek Lee received the "DL" from STATS. At that point, and not before, teams were able to move him out of their starting lineups.

Cooperstown · Post by **Cooperstown** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 6:22 am

Originally posted by King of Queens:

Sometime between 12 noon and 7pm on Friday, Derrek Lee received the "DL" from STATS. At that point, and not before, teams were able to move him out of their starting lineups. My attempt in Magazine League 1 was between those times and I wasn't allowed to make the move. I believe it was around 3:00 p.m. CST. I know because I looked to make sure no games started before 7 that day.

triple a · Post by **triple a** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 6:52 am

d.lee was not put on the dl until friday afternoon. matos was put on the dl wed. night. all i know is that at 12 p.m. friday afternoon matos and d.lee were not listed as dl for my team. how could someone else be able to move d.lee him out of their lineup when i couldnt. you cant have dl players for some teams, and the same players not on the dl for others. suggestion: we need to get rid of this friday rule or make full transactions twice a week. i could see this causing controversy for the nfbc towards the end of the year.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 7:21 am

Originally posted by triple a:

d.lee was not put on the dl until friday afternoon. matos was put on the dl wed. night. all i know is that at 12 p.m. friday afternoon matos and d.lee were not listed as dl for my team. how could someone else be able to move d.lee him out of their lineup when i couldnt. you cant have dl players for some teams, and the same players not on the dl for others. suggestion: we need to get rid of this friday rule or make full transactions twice a week. i could see this causing controversy for the nfbc towards the end of the year. I will make sure that this was uniformly available for everyone as we have stated or we'll correct that for this week. I will also make sure we better explain exactly how this rule works and how STATS is employing it. I'll do that first thing when I get back in the office.

Everyone e-mailing and calling STATS on Friday to find out why Luis Matos isn't on the DL because they read on rotowhatever.com that he is going on there doesn't help at all. Some guys are assuming that when you read he's on the DL he is, when in the case of Matos STATS said he was not officially on the DL until later on Friday. We can make this work and there are advantages to it as we've seen with guys going on the DL so far on Monday night or Tuesday or even Wednesday. But not all late week injuries will immediately allow you to reserve that player.

I will make sure we do this right or we won't do it at all.

Parnelli · Post by **Parnelli** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 12:14 pm

Rule 13 is very clear..Was there a change in the rule after the season started?? as of Apr 3 the only rule I could find was rule 13.

The key words are (according to stats)and according to stats he was on the DL.

Why was this rule made in the first place?I would think it would be to help the NFBC owner who just lost a guy like D LEE.

I have 3 NFBC teams without D LEE,But in those leagues I want the guy with D Lee to be able to replace him.I would think I could beat him,Considering he just lost his first round pick for 12 weeks.....lol

Rule 13 ........

Spyhunter · Post by **Spyhunter** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 12:20 pm

guys, I am not sure what happend, I haven't seen STATs state a for sure rule on when they put players on DL.

I don't know their exact mechanism to check the DL list but they probably have several batch jobs.

You should always check Friday night, just in case. No one should assume they know STATS mechanism to check the official DL line unless they are the STATS programmers...

Just a little friendly advice...

Spy

nydownunder · Post by **nydownunder** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 12:51 pm

Greg,

As long as no one was actually able to DL Lee, when others couldn't, then I don't see why any changes/fixes need to be made for any rosters. We all knew that it's based on when STATS updates DL'd players...and no other source. If this were a Monday (rather than a Friday event), it would be no different. We all should have to play with the same misfortunes, thus I would hate to see any precident here for fixes (back dating) rosters.

But of course, if my first senstnce is not proven true, then of course more work is in order.

Spyhunter · Post by **Spyhunter** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 12:58 pm

Greg, is the official rule they go on the DL by Thursday midnight and moves are done Thursday midnight? or Friday? I am starting to get confused now!

[ April 23, 2006, 08:23 PM: Message edited by: Spyhunter ]

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 1:18 pm

even though the DL rule can be helpful to some folks, it looks like it's causing more harm than good. i'm not sure what's so hard to understand??? if a player is placed on the official MLB DL list by 12:01am Friday AND Stats has their database updated, then you can use the DL rule. if the player is placed on the official MLB DL list on Friday, sorry but you lose out.

Quick look at some leagues and d.lee’s status for the time period of Fri, Apr 21 - Sun, Apr 23

LV1 - Dirty Old Gym Shoes – D.Lee on bench

LV2 - RBIed For Her Pleasure – D.Lee in starting lineup

LV3 - Inspin.com - D.Lee in starting lineup

LV4 - We're Spartacus - D.Lee on bench

LV5 - Shot In The Dark - D.Lee in starting lineup

LV6 - Radar Contact - D.Lee in starting lineup

LV7 - Rule 5 Lawn Jockies - D.Lee in starting lineup

LV8 - Main Event Insulaters - D.Lee in starting lineup

LV9 - Sayin It Ain't So Joes - D.Lee in starting lineup

NY1 – Fandango – D.Lee on bench

Greg, will the folks that moved lee out of their starting line-ups need to “give back” the stats for the player they inserted? Also, can we get an official tally of the owners/teams that moved lee to the bench?

[ April 23, 2006, 07:20 PM: Message edited by: Gordon Gekko ]

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 1:58 pm

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

even though the DL rule can be helpful to some folks, it looks like it's causing more harm than good. i'm not sure what's so hard to understand??? if a player is placed on the official MLB DL list by 12:01am Friday AND Stats has their database updated, then you can use the DL rule. if the player is placed on the official MLB DL list on Friday, sorry but you lose out.Greg made one reference on these message boards about a 12:01am Friday "deadline," but has been mentioned on one of the many Derrek Lee threads, this is not mentioned in the stated rules:

"players must officially be on the DL list according to STATS for this move (or moves) to take effect for the weekend games."

In fact, nowhere in the rules does it state anything about 12:01am Friday. If STATS updated their website on Friday afternoon prior to the first game played that day, by the rules, the move should stand.

Vander · Post by **Vander** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 2:07 pm

Works for me. The site said he was on the dl. tried to put in a sub and was denied. Losing Lee is bad enough. Not getting to put in a sub when he had a DL next to his name and some others were allowed just won't due. I trust Greg will straighten this out fairly.

Spyhunter · Post by **Spyhunter** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 2:11 pm

I am going to go back and read the rules...

[ April 23, 2006, 08:23 PM: Message edited by: Spyhunter ]

Parnelli · Post by **Parnelli** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 2:41 pm

Thank you ...King of Queens......I don't even know why a 12:01 deadline would be made?

1)12:01 is friday

2)all other deadline are 5 min before game time

3)Rule 13 was made to help teams that need to replace DL player.

4)Whats next are we going to have to set are weekly line up by 12:01 Mon mourning?

5)Rule changes should be saved for next year.Not changed on message 19,265.

6) Rule 13 is very clear...........Just does this rule count?????Or will rule 13 be throw out the window...lol.....

Parnelli · Post by **Parnelli** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 2:50 pm

Vander...Maybe the way to fix your problem is to let you make that move and give you your subs stats....I don't know how good your team is but without D Lee.Even a third place finish would be hard..

eddiejag · Post by **eddiejag** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 3:22 pm

I dont like the midnight rule, why not make it like on mondays , you get 5 minutes to game time on fri.It seems like stats is always behind , we all know LEE is out in plenty of time . All these guys should get their backup , if they have one.Bad enough to lose a nu one pick , LEE was hurt way before fri , whats the promblem.

sportsbettingman · Post by **sportsbettingman** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 3:41 pm

Just my opinion...

As a team owner...using the stats and software provided by the NFBC...I feel anything you try to do/do as the button pusher at this end...should count. I do not create the software...nor calculate the stats...nor determine official DL status.

...but if i try and bench Lee...and it works...it's not my fault...period.

my opinion.

~Lance