Feedback for KP

nnoy · Post by **nnoy** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 1:44 am

The entire event was a class act: from the reception, to the free goodies, to the efficiency of the draft. The amount of time and effort this hard-working group put into this thing really showed and I’m sure we all appreciate it. I will be back in this thing for years to come, regardless of the final standings. Thanks for a great time.

My only somewhat negative comment is that it was TOO efficient. The draft was pitched as a minute per pick, so I spend considerable time preparing a spreadsheet so I could track the draft as it went and be able to adjust my picks mid-draft based on what every team had, unfortunately the draft moved so quickly that it became impossible to maintain my tracking almost immediately. This was a little disappointing since I had planned on

having time to keep up. At least I know this for next year now; and at least my wife was happy that I was done about three hours earlier than she expected.

[ March 21, 2004, 07:45 AM: Message edited by: nnoy ]

vulture 1 · Post by **vulture 1** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 4:07 am

Great event, we will return. I suggest using a computer and projecting picks on the wall. Easier to see and then download to website-same day.

Also the goody bags were great, but the literature would be helpful earlier. Maybe everyone who signs up by 2/15 gets the books in the mail by the end of February.

Nevadaman · Post by **Nevadaman** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 12:12 am

I agree with both of you. Everything at the draft was first rate - from the venue itself (the Rio casino in my case) to the goodie bags to the draft facilitators. I plan on being here for many years. I expect the retention rate to be very high and for this event to really take off in the next few years. Congrats to Greg and KP for bringing this all together.

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 2:55 am

Thanks for the kind words everyone. As the person running things in Chicago, I thought things there went very well. Everyone here was quite pleased and, as I anticipated, the people drafting were sharp and prepared and that made the entire process run smoothly.

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 4:08 am

My thoughts...

1) League tables were too close together. Too much chatter from the other leagues.

2) Goodie bags were a nice touch, but the magazines were kinda useless when we get them 1 day before the draft.

3) I thought I read on the MB (somewhere) that the one minute time limit per pick was to start once the selected players sticker was placed on the draft board. The one minute started once a pick was announced. What happened was three owners in a row would rattle off their selections within 5 seconds, and then the 4th owner had their clock start. Way too fast in my opinion.

4) More free beer needed

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 4:13 am

Gordon, to address your comments:

1. That is something we talked about quite a bit. Do you have a particular space you think would work between tables? This question is for everyone.

2. We're working on an alternative for the football event and the next baseball event that may provide a solution here. We'll definitely keep you guys posted when a final decision is made.

3. That's a comment we've heard from a few folks and it is something we will address. We wanted to keep things moving and we probably had things moving a little too briskly at times. We'll definitely address this for all future events.

4. More beer is always a good thing. We'll see what we can do there.

[ March 26, 2004, 10:14 AM: Message edited by: Tom Kessenich ]

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 4:29 am

I don't give out many compliments, but job well done (so far). With the buzz this event has created, I've got a handful of friends who may get in the upcoming football event, as well as next years baseball event. Just what this event needs, Gekko disciples.

Edwards Kings · Post by **Edwards Kings** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 4:32 am

Tom,

Not sure what to do about the noise. The only thing I can recommend is a common room for refreshments/breaks and then have the draft in individual, smaller sized conference rooms. That would cut down on the noise/confusion where each draft facilitator is shouting out names (including some of my sleepers!

) Most resorts should be able to accomodate, but am certainly not sure.

As to timing, more people were happy it was over as soon as it was. But if there was a change, certainly a graduated (1 minute first 10-12 rounds, 1.5 minutes for the middle rounds, and two minutes for the last nine or so rounds).

Beer is good.

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 4:38 am

Originally posted by Edwards Kings:

As to timing, more people were happy it was over as soon as it was. I can only speak for my teams and the comments I heard from other owners. They were not happy.

Originally posted by Edwards Kings:

But if there was a change, certainly a graduated (1 minute first 10-12 rounds, 1.5 minutes for the middle rounds, and two minutes for the last nine or so rounds). No graduation. Leave it at a minute, but don't start the clock until the sticker has been posted.

Edwards Kings · Post by **Edwards Kings** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 4:49 am

I guess that goes to show you every draft was a bit different. Most comments I heard were happy to have a couple of extra hours to enjoy Vegas.

Your point about keeping the minute, but starting the clock after the name is posted is OK by me. Even those that ran out of time (very seldom) and had to wait until the next person picked didn't seen too upset, so leaving it pretty much as is would be fine with me.

Walla Walla · Post by **Walla Walla** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 4:54 am

My facilitator was soft spoken in L.V. League three. Hard to hear the picks. I felt bad but had to keep asking my fellow owners who just got picked. Many times they had to ask me. Also our facilitator was posting the picks on the board.

This slowed down the draft alot! Instead of one minute between picks it was often 3 to 4 minutes.

I picked 8th which means I was at the far table from the board. Couldn't really read it.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 5:00 am

We will certainly work with our draft facilitators for football to make sure the clock starts once the stickers are posted. I was a draft facilitator for a time in Las Vegas on Saturday and started the clock once the sticker was close to being posted. I felt it was good to keep the draft moving, but I understand everyone's concerns about it moving TOO fast. For football, we can certainly give everyone the full 1:15 or so it takes to put the sticker on the board and then start the clock for the next pick.

As for the magazines, we hope to have the same amount of free publications for everyone for football and likely more. One thought was to allow anyone who wants these magazines ahead of time to pay for the postage separately and we'll ship everything out to you on Aug. 1 or so. We're reviewing that, but certainly it's an option that could work for everyone. As for the other goodies in our upcoming football giveaway bag, I can only promise that we'll have even more and with even more value. We're working our sports collectibles partners now on that and I think you'll be pleasantly surprised with everything we come up with.

Keep the constructive criticisms coming. Man, a semi-compliment from Gordon Gekko is as good as it gets. We are honored.

Dyv · Post by **Dyv** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 5:26 am

I think there are some necessary evils here... the tables could be about twice as far apart as they were in Vegas - that would be plenty, but is it cost effective or just plain wasteful?

Some moderators could moderate their voices a bit so that in the late rounds my leaguemates don't get filled up with draft ideas I'm trying hard to keep quiet. The concept that you have to bellow a name instead of speak it is just as bad as the moderators who speak too quietly.

I think the breaks were fine, but people need to be told to NOT walk up to the other drafts in progress and to be quiet walking by them. We were at the back table with 13 leaguemates via phone in NYC and 3 of us in Vegas. The space was great, but people didn't think we were drafting and would often walk up 2 inches from my shoulder and loudly discuss why team such and such shouldn't have taken so and so... (we even had several walk through the tables in front of the draft board...)

Perhaps a more obvious 'break room' and a little closer run to the bathrooms would make everyone feel slightly less pinched for time when they have 10 minutes to get back to the table and therefore they could be courteous and wait 30 more seconds to get OUT of the room before they started talking?

I think the pace for us was fine - I'm assuming that's a moderator thing. It was funny when 1 team actually tried to pick Arod in the 20th round to buy the extra 15 seconds and figure out his selection. If it had been done more than once it wouldn't have been funny

I believe the draft pace SHOULD be brisk - and teams should be prepared. A 4 or even 4.5 hour draft is just fine, anything over 5 hours is ridiculous and should DEFINITELY be ruled against. I don't mean crazy circumstances like an owner getting sick and the league needs to take a 15 minute break, etc. - that's totally understandable. Just warn people ahead of time to be ready and keep the timing flowing from the time the sticker is going up. So basically, 1 minute to pick should be 1 minute AFTER all previous picks are known. Give everyone 3 seconds to cross off a few rapid picks from their cheat sheets, then 1 minute to sort through their teams needs and the draft situation and move on.

The draft was excellent - the atmosphere was perfect. Job WELL done.

Dave

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 8:55 am

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

We will certainly work with our draft facilitators for football to make sure the clock starts once the stickers are posted. As you know, football is a little different. Only 20 rounds and 12 owners.

vulture 1 · Post by **vulture 1** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 9:29 am

Could we project the draft results from a laptop onto the wall? The names would be easier to see and then the draft could be downloaded right to the website.

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 9:43 am

Originally posted by vulture 1:

Could we project the draft results from a laptop onto the wall? The names would be easier to see and then the draft could be downloaded right to the website. vulture, I actually brought this up at a meeting we had on Thursday. Unfortunately, the expenses involved in securing an Internet connection plus a laptop at every draft table for each league in every city would probably prohibit us from going this route.

[ March 26, 2004, 03:44 PM: Message edited by: Tom Kessenich ]

Nevadaman · Post by **Nevadaman** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 10:13 am

First off, let me reiterate that overall I think the NFBC is great and I plan to be involved for many years. But like any startup venture, there are a few bugs. I feel I must address a fairly serious problem that has occured in my league (Las Vegas #1) and how this could be corrected in the future.

The facts are these: Team #9 screwed up (intentionally or unintentionally) and came away from the draft with an illegal roster. He had no 2nd baseman. He had Jose Reyes who only qualifies at shortstop until he plays 20 games at 2nd this year. I wrote down everyone's roster at the draft, so there is no mistake on my part. Today, lo and behold, Team #9 now has Mark Grudzielanek (a qualified 2nd baseman) and no longer has Sterling Hitchcock on reserve.

Bottom line is that Team #9 screwed up and was

allowed to get a free player after the draft. I thought illegal rosters had to be corrected through free agency? After all, I'd like to switch a couple players off my taxi for my pick of any free agent free of charge!

In the grand scheme of things this probably won't amount to much, but it brings something to a head that has bothered me from day one. To eliminate confusion, the NFBC MUST HAVE A COMPLETE LIST OF PLAYERS WHO ARE ELIGIBLE FOR THE DRAFT AND THE POSITIONS AT WHICH THEY QUALIFY. A tiny list of a dozen "questionable" players is not good enough. Every other contest I have ever entered has a complete list of draftable players available months in advance. Don't tell me to look on the site, because apparently that didn't matter. We must have a hard copy of all players so there is no confusion whatsoever and this MUST be adhered to strictly. We all should have to play by the same rules. Am I wrong???

a · Post by a » Fri Mar 26, 2004 10:15 am

Umm, Gordon, the rule is....... ready...

1 minute between picks.

A person picks, the next is on the clock. A well prepared person such as yourself should have had no problem with this. I think I took a total of 3 minutes of time with all 29 of my picks. I was actually ready a prepared for every pick. That happens when you know when you when you will be up next (because it's always in the same order). I hope you're not starting your excuses if you team doesn't do well.

Leave it as is, too bad 3 picks are done in a row, sac up and be prepared. This is for the big boys. (BTW- part of my stategy is to draft fast to messed up the drafters around me)

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

My thoughts...

3) I thought I read on the MB (somewhere) that the one minute time limit per pick was to start once the selected players sticker was placed on the draft board. The one minute started once a pick was announced. What happened was three owners in a row would rattle off their selections within 5 seconds, and then the 4th owner had their clock start. Way too fast in my opinion.

[ March 26, 2004, 04:21 PM: Message edited by: Vega$ Gambler$ ]

Leaderboard Sports · Post by **Leaderboard Sports** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 10:17 am

I would like to see the time limit left as is. It is a tremendous advantage to those of us who are compulsive organizers. I never took more than 5 seconds to make any pick and drafted alone. Proper organization is a draft skill as far as I'm concerned and putting time pressure on your opponents can often lead to an overlooked gem sliding back your way.

Everything was great in Vegas and while the background noise was confusing at times the big hall does give the event a grander scale.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 10:37 am

Nevadaman, I will address this one. First of all, we did provide eligibility lists to everyone. They were on the web site since December 1 and they were in every issue of Fantasy Sports Magazine which we gave to each person. The one-sheet handout was for players who were not covered in either case.

In the instance of Team #9, League 1 in Las Vegas, I was not aware of any illegal lineups when I left Las Vegas. As you know, I personally went to each draft board in Las Vegas as each draft was winding down and tried my best to check every team for two catchers. I was a pain in the butt to League 6 as I kept prodding owners to take a catcher with their last pick. I briefly checked League 1 before everyone left and didn't see anything wrong as I definitely was looking for two catchers more than two middle infielders.

In this particular case, Team 9 called me today and admitted that they assumed Jose Reyes was also eligible at second base as they were under the impression we were using this goofy WCOFB "Assume Rule." Whether that's a valid excuse or not, he had an illegal lineup and I did exactly what I would have done in Vegas after the draft: I told him to cut his last player selected, which he did, and grab a second baseman. He had no other choice.

Again, I was responsible for the Vegas drafts and it was my job to catch this. I thought I had thoroughly checked every single lineup out there, but I didn't envision a second middle infielder being the problem. Team 9 did what I asked of them and would have asked of them last Saturday had I caught this.

Our goal this week has been to make sure every single lineup is legal heading into the Japan games and we took action on this one team. He gains no advantage, other than not having me stop his entire draft in Vegas after his 29th round pick and embarrassing him.

If there is a concern here, we'll address it. But I thought I had addressed it.

Nevadaman · Post by **Nevadaman** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 10:53 am

Greg, The eligibility lists were not finite. The question about minor leaguers and their positions went on and on. It was unclear until you announced in person at the draft that we could draft prospects that didn't have 20 games in the majors. These players were not on that list. Period. I am proposing the following: Your player eligibility lists should be absolutely FINITE. IF A PLAYER ISN'T ON THAT LIST HE CAN'T BE DRAFTED. Wouldn't that clear up all confusion and satisfy your MLPA concerns??

Nevadaman · Post by **Nevadaman** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 11:05 am

Also, there should be a list of pitchers eligible for the draft. I felt that Urbina was eligible, but my friend in another league said there was a big controversy when Urbina was selected. This would have been eliminated if everyone had a FINITE list of eligible pitchers. If Urbina was on the list, he could be drafted. If he wasn't on the list, he couldn't be. Obviously, there WAS confusion here for some people. That's why a finite list of draftable players at all positions is necessary.

mystydog · Post by **mystydog** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 11:06 am

This is a in response to the comment regarding the cost of securing an internet presence for each system....

The solution is easy...and can be addressed two ways....

First Way....You only need to secure ONE internet connection...you connect a DHCP enabled router/switch to the one connection....and everybody at the event shares the bandwidth.....

Second Way....Low End Servers are Dirt Cheap....You Build a Server for running the draft...create a local network just for running the draft....then after the draft is over you ftp the draft data to the primary servers in Chicago and then upload the data to the official site.....

Either solution would in the end be cheap...because you would not incur the man hours to manually enter the data.....since, it would already be in digital form....

Anthony Swain

Mysty Dog's Wildpack

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 11:17 am

Greg, the legal roster issue was discussed quite indepthly prior to March 20th. Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't you say that teams would have to use their FAAB to pick up a replacement if they left the draft table with an illegal roster? I have a problem with the method by which a team was able to choose whatever 2B he wanted **almost a week after the draft**--when new imformation made it easier to select a replacement.

I knew this was going to be a problem, especially when draft facilitators were not instructed to check for legal rosters (at least not in NYC#1). The biggest surpise is that this kind of mistake only happened in 1 out of 195 teams...

TBill · Post by **TBill** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 11:38 am

I was in LV#4. I mentioned to Nevadaman that when Urbina was picked several owners chimed in that they thought he was ineligible. And although I also thought that it was an extremely well run event, I would still agree that it would be even better if such a "these players only list" was provided. In my case I was never sent the fantasy baseball magazine at entry. I only got it in the goodie bag at registration. I spent a lot of time preparing but wasn't absolutely sure. I'm very happy with the event but I think such a list would be a slight improvement. Also, my eyes aren't the best so in my case I wouldn't mind larger letters for players board. I have every faith that this contest will get better and better.