Possible NFBC Cutline Championship In 2014

[Money]

Just funnin', of course Joe, you're one of the best!

Same here Dan! Looking forward to the fast slows next year.

[Money]

Gekko stated previously that he wouldn't play a 10 team format. I have to believe this is right up his alley. He is dominating the draft champions in football and has clearly separated himself from the field in these type of draft dominated formats.

[Glenneration X]

The tweak I like is Juprinka's cutting back to only 1 FAAB.

Won't work. You'd have players going all in for their entire 1000 FAAB on the Puig's of the world. You need an incentive to save some FAAB for later dates and by that I mean by having later FAAB dates.

Again, agree with Glenn. Three FAABs spread out would be of help to many teams. A one time FAAB can be timing friendly for some teams, not others.
Not to mention the logjam of Puig types that Glenn mentioned.

The tweak I was referring to is reducing the 3-week period between each cut to 1-week. I get Greg's point about pitching and the randomness of starts and dual starts. However, part of what makes daily games exciting, as well as the old FFOC as I remember it, is that adrenaline rush of having everything dependent upon that one day's action. Three weeks is a long time. In football years, it's almost 1/3 of an entire regular season across the street. With such a long time frame, some will still know they're out of it week one. Others won't realize they're in it until day 21. It takes some of the rush away from the concept, which is part of what makes the concept what it is.

[KJ Duke]

The tweak I like is Juprinka's cutting back to only 1 FAAB.

Won't work. You'd have players going all in for their entire 1000 FAAB on the Puig's of the world. You need an incentive to save some FAAB for later dates and by that I mean by having later FAAB dates.

Again, agree with Glenn. Three FAABs spread out would be of help to many teams. A one time FAAB can be timing friendly for some teams, not others.
Not to mention the logjam of Puig types that Glenn mentioned.

You guys may be right - It would be problematic to have multiple 1,000 bids on one player. I thought reducing cutline-football FAAB to every other week was a good idea, but Juprinka said 3 was plenty and he was right, so I'm extrapolating his correctness here.

[Gekko]

Gekko stated previously that he wouldn't play a 10 team format. I have to believe this is right up his alley. He is dominating the draft champions in football and has clearly separated himself from the field in these type of draft dominated formats.

thx for kind words Joe. lot of season left.

as for 10 team leagues for me...just dont see it happening. why do that when i can do as many 15 team DC leagues as i can handle?

with that said, i'm all for Greg getting newbies in the nfbc. if they like 10 team leagues, greg would be smart to offer them

[Glenneration X]

I was initially turned off by the points concept. I immediately thought of the H2H points games that I do not enjoy. However after reading the rules again and all the followup posts in this thread, I'm now for the format as proposed (with some minor tweaks).

As Juprinka pointed out, this resembles the daily games more than those ESPN H2H leagues and those daily game formats are ones that I've played and enjoyed this past year.

As far as attracting the new player to our game, the cross promotion possibilities with the daily games could provide access to a huge pool of new players who already play a points style game that can be tapped into. The NFBC already cross promotes with the biggest daily game provider in Fanduel. Get some of those players to play this Cutline contest and the possibilities could be real promising for growth here.

I agree with Glenn.

And extrapolating on the Fanduel point in regards to NFBC growth just a bit, there is a very important difference between the Fanduel type player and the ESPN/Yahoo type player....

The typical Fanduel player has already shown that he's not afraid to spend big money on this hobby.

[KJ Duke]

why do that when i can do as many 15 team DC leagues as i can handle?

If you don't have to manage lineups or deal with faab (often), a 10-team becomes a lot like a 15-team league ... whoever drafts best has a significant edge. But with a lesser time commitment.

[Catch]

Greg, your first thoughts seem to be to my liking. 2 minor tweaks: I would prefer less rounds drafted (40 max) and one more round of FAAB. Add a 4th FAAB period on the Sunday prior to the All Star break leading into the playoff schedule.
After reading all these posts; surprisingly, no one has mentioned that the game would end before the NFL season kicks off which may potentially gain the fantasy football player to try fantasy baseball. 21 week fantasy baseball season should please the MONEY players that want to eliminate week 26.

[Gekko]

why do that when i can do as many 15 team DC leagues as i can handle?

If you don't have to manage lineups or deal with faab (often), a 10-team becomes a lot like a 15-team league ... whoever drafts best has a significant edge. But with a lesser time commitment.

for baseball, i like managing lineups, and i prefer no faab leagues

[Money]

21 week fantasy baseball season should please the MONEY players that want to eliminate week 26.

Now that's the best argument I've heard yet I love the sense of humor, but in reality it has a lot of merit

[Quahogs]

The tweak I like is Juprinka's cutting back to only 1 FAAB.

Won't work. You'd have players going all in for their entire 1000 FAAB on the Puig's of the world. You need an incentive to save some FAAB for later dates and by that I mean by having later FAAB dates.

Again, agree with Glenn. Three FAABs spread out would be of help to many teams. A one time FAAB can be timing friendly for some teams, not others.
Not to mention the logjam of Puig types that Glenn mentioned.

You guys may be right - It would be problematic to have multiple 1,000 bids on one player. I thought reducing cutline-football FAAB to every other week was a good idea, but Juprinka said 3 was plenty and he was right, so I'm extrapolating his correctness here. [/quote]






I'm not sure how many faab weeks are on the board here but really the lesser the better. I thought 1 FAAB would work because there would be MULTIPLE puig's at every position. Most likely every team would have weak spots across the board. Picking up but ONE player would not be viable if you want a team for the long haul.

KJ has it going in the right direction. But if I'm faabing 10 cutline teams every other week then forget it...

[Greg Ambrosius]

I'd chime in tonight, but I'm watching three fantasy basketball drafts right now!! It's always drafting season around here and the Cutline could add to our nightly list of drafts.

You guys are doing a good job of vetting this contest. It's a work in progress, but I'm liking the suggestions. I'll tweak some things tomorrow and see what folks think. Thanks again all.

[KJ Duke]

Steve, 3 FAABs was the proposal, not 13.

[Greg Ambrosius]

I'm not sure how many faab weeks are on the board here but really the lesser the better. I thought 1 FAAB would work because there would be MULTIPLE puig's at every position. Most likely every team would have weak spots across the board. Picking up but ONE player would not be viable if you want a team for the long haul.

KJ has it going in the right direction. But if I'm faabing 10 cutline teams every other week then forget it...

I think we've learned in football that 3 FAAB periods has been just about right. Now if you limit FAAB to three times in baseball, then you need deeper rosters because of so many injuries. What's the right number for drafting? 35? More? Less? 40? 45? That's a big question, but three FAAB periods seems about right.

[Catch]

Easy adjustment possibly for all. Scratch my idea of the 4th FAAB period; but, stretch out the 3 FAAB periods every 5 weeks instead of 4 weeks. Therefore, the third FAAB period lands on the Sunday prior to the All Star break. This again will provide more emphasis on draft day than in-season management. Looking @ the 2014 schedule, FAAB will be conducted on Sunday May 4th, Sunday June 8th and Sunday July 13th.

[KJ Duke]

I like 45 rds because you draft the same number of players as in a 30-rd 15-teamer, good prep. If you draft less you're coming up short in terms of prep for standard leagues and you don't have any kind of usable ADP.

Also, less rounds means you'll have a massive number of players to sort thru for the FAAB periods, and you're more likely to get caught starting zeros, especially in the playoff rounds.

CATCH - if you stretch it out to every 5 weeks, the final faab period would be in the middle of playoffs rather in front of them.

[Greg Ambrosius]

I hang out at a couple of places that have many sports fans and fantasy sports players. There are multiple football leagues at each and 1 baseball league at each run through the typical sites. Almost every guy that loves football would love to play baseball. The time commitment to them is intimidating. A lot of the local baseball leagues have daily moves and these guys are one and done. This needs to be kept as simple as possible if you want to attract those players that want a stake in the game all summer long without feeling like they have to do daily research to stay competitive.

The scoring format will be irrelevant, giving these players some relatively effortless action will be the key to attracting the masses.

I agree with Joe, how did that happen?

Geez, getting you two to agree on something? This contest has already been a success.

[Catch]

KJ, I did a double check and show otherwise. If we stay with the 12th week being final FAAB period, it would land on Sunday June 22nd. If I read Greg's post right, playoffs start after the All Star Break on Friday July 18th.

[KJ Duke]

KJ, I did a double check and show otherwise. If we stay with the 12th week being final FAAB period, it would land on Sunday June 22nd. If I read Greg's post right, playoffs start after the All Star Break on Friday July 18th.

You're correct on the timing, however week 15 is still problematic in that if you run the final FAAB within days of playoffs beginning, who is bidding - only the playoff teams? If so, do you then block non-playoff teams from bidding? Then you've got to program that in. If not, then in some leagues you could have out of it teams doing a budget flush, while in other leagues no one bothers. Also, in some seasons the ASB could be a week sooner or later, which would require a re-thinking of the rule. Week 12 looks safe for avoiding those issues, week 15 could be tricky.

[Catch]

KJ, I see your point and it makes sense. Certain teams/leagues may have an unfair advantage overall whereby only 2 teams make bids on the hot new players in one league and in another league all 10 teams make bids to hurt the top 2 teams.
I would say that Greg has it well planned out. I backtrack on number of rounds as well......stick with the 45 rounds since the last FAAB period for the upcoming 2014 season would be 3 full weeks before the cutline playoffs start. No one wants to end up having zero points at a certain position due to injuries. This will also please the NFBC vets for main event draft prep.

[ReedBTLines]

So, if I finish runner-up in the league, make the championship playoffs and finish 11th overall .. I lose money? Yuck.


ENTRY FEE & PRIZE STRUCTURE
The Entry fee will be either $125 or $150.
The highest scoring team in each 10-team league will be awarded a league prize of $250 (or $300 if entry is $150).
The two highest scoring teams in each 10-team league will compete in the Championship Playoff.

CHAMPIONSHIP PLAYOFF PRIZES
1st Place – $50,000
2nd Place – $25,000
3rd Place – $10,000
4th Place – $6,000
5th Place – $4,000
6th-10th Place – $1,000 each

[Quahogs]

I have some observations.

Why locked into 10 teams? Is the yahoo/espn crowd the quarry here? Faster league fill? To me 12 would present a more relevant ADP and season league team construct . Which is what's driving KJ's vision of this.

45 rds ? Way too long for a quick hit draft every couple of days league.

If you average 30 seconds a pick for 450 picks you are looking at a 3hr 45min draft. Drafts could conceivable take 4 hours. If I know I'm sitting down at 8EST and not finishing until midnight... When you get into the nitty gritty of spring training you are giving up a whole night of draft prep and spring training analysis.

The football cutline fit seemlessly into the "season long" draft fabric. They were quick (26rds) and could be done a day before or even same day as a Prime or Classic. However from an NFBC players perspective once I get my draft picks for the ME or Super there's no way I can give up a night drafting for 4 hours. The information flow is too much of a constant in baseball as compared to football.

Maybe this current setup 10tms 45 rds appeals to an unknown quantity out there. But for a player like myself a 4hour draft during the heightened spring training season has little appeal.

[Greg Ambrosius]

KJ, I see your point and it makes sense. Certain teams/leagues may have an unfair advantage overall whereby only 2 teams make bids on the hot new players in one league and in another league all 10 teams make bids to hurt the top 2 teams.
I would say that Greg has it well planned out. I backtrack on number of rounds as well......stick with the 45 rounds since the last FAAB period for the upcoming 2014 season would be 3 full weeks before the cutline playoffs start. No one wants to end up having zero points at a certain position due to injuries. This will also please the NFBC vets for main event draft prep.

KJ is right, we want to make sure that the third FAAB period involves all teams for the stretch run, not just playoff teams for the playoffs. In fact, that's why we probably need a Consolation Round of some degree to give all teams incentive to pick up players in that third and final FAAB period.

45 rounds does make sense if we do a Best Ball format, although there is concern about lengthy drafts. Again, with 10 good owners these should be done in 3 hours or 3:15. Is it worth an extra hour to have a deeper roster for the rest of the season considering all of the injuries we saw last year and since we have only 3 FAAB pickups? I think so, but I'm open for discussion.

And should the scoring mirror NFBC style values with only our 10 categories, or is Todd onto something with points for everything like doubles, triples, walks, etc.? Some have already said that 6 points for a SB seems too high, whereas others say that adding categories outside of the NFBC's core 10 stats will make it tougher for NFBC vets to sign up. I'm interested in the feedback there, especially with daily games scoring more than just the 10 Roto categories. What works best if we do go with a points scoring system?

As for ADPs, we can have those just for this game easily and this year we'll be able to break down contests into last 7 days, last 14 days, last 21 days, etc. for each ADP listing. So this one would have its own ADPs as I see it. Does that help at all?

Thanks for the feedback. Don't stop now.

[Greg Ambrosius]

So, if I finish runner-up in the league, make the championship playoffs and finish 11th overall .. I lose money? Yuck.


ENTRY FEE & PRIZE STRUCTURE
The Entry fee will be either $125 or $150.
The highest scoring team in each 10-team league will be awarded a league prize of $250 (or $300 if entry is $150).
The two highest scoring teams in each 10-team league will compete in the Championship Playoff.

CHAMPIONSHIP PLAYOFF PRIZES
1st Place – $50,000
2nd Place – $25,000
3rd Place – $10,000
4th Place – $6,000
5th Place – $4,000
6th-10th Place – $1,000 each

Correct. This is not a contest where you play to win money in the league prizes; we have a lot of contests at $125 and $150 where you can do that. This is a contest that hopefully we can grow the grand prize to $100,000+ with a low entry fee and large participation. Surviving the "cutline" in the playoffs and having that thrill of winning the grand prize is the lure of this contest and the bigger the carrot we can get the more popular it will become. At least that's the hope here. Again, this is not your normal contest where you get ROI from league prizes; it's all about the overall prizes and it won't be for everyone, which is okay.

[Greg Ambrosius]

I have some observations.

Why locked into 10 teams? Is the yahoo/espn crowd the quarry here? Faster league fill? To me 12 would present a more relevant ADP and season league team construct . Which is what's driving KJ's vision of this.

45 rds ? Way too long for a quick hit draft every couple of days league.

If you average 30 seconds a pick for 450 picks you are looking at a 3hr 45min draft. Drafts could conceivable take 4 hours. If I know I'm sitting down at 8EST and not finishing until midnight... When you get into the nitty gritty of spring training you are giving up a whole night of draft prep and spring training analysis.

The football cutline fit seemlessly into the "season long" draft fabric. They were quick (26rds) and could be done a day before or even same day as a Prime or Classic. However from an NFBC players perspective once I get my draft picks for the ME or Super there's no way I can give up a night drafting for 4 hours. The information flow is too much of a constant in baseball as compared to football.

Maybe this current setup 10tms 45 rds appeals to an unknown quantity out there. But for a player like myself a 4hour draft during the heightened spring training season has little appeal.

You are absolutely correct Steve: Football worked perfectly with 10 teams, 26 rounds as those were easy 2 hour nightly drafts. That's why we did 185 leagues in less than 60 days. We all know that baseball can't duplicate that unless we lower the starting roster size, so is there a formula here that works in 3 hours or less? Only your idea of 30 spots and all stats count comes close to that, but with only 3 FAAB periods that leaves teams with a lot of zeros.

These won't be 4-hour drafts because our 15-team, 30-round drafts all finish in 3 hours or 3:15, but your point is well taken. It's tough in baseball to find that happy medium, but we'll keep trying. I haven't given up on this yet.