NFBC Message Boards

As of this writing, I know that it has been quite sometime since I have made any significant appearance on these boards, be it with my "Musings" column, The MTM Super thread, or simply responding or chiming in on the myriad of posts which I do peruse and contemplate on a regular basis. However, I felt compelled to speak out to anyone who will honestly listen at the NFBC and take stock in what I am about to post here. But before I go any further, I want to preface what I am about to write with a few things:

I do not have an ax to grind or an agenda of my own that I am trying to further. I do not have any financial or business motivation for writing what I am about to write. I do not write what I am about to write out of spite, anger, revenge, or to be disrespectful of Greg, Tom, or anyone else for that matter that is affiliated with the NFBC. I have always found them all to be nice guys who have done so much to advance this great passion/obsession/hobby of ours. I truly wish that what I am about to write will be taken in the right vein without what has become a consistent pattern of defensiveness and often self-righteous indignation when I do speak out usually on behalf of others who come to me as a sounding board with the hopes that I will say something since I am "The Mouth". I truly would like nothing more than to say nothing in this case since I realize the potential shit storm of reaction that I am sure to get along with the phone calls from the powers that be which come all the more frequently when I am being accused of stirring the pot and creating controversy or when I want to spend more money on their product rather than for my advice, insights, constructive criticism, or even for my participation on any level to help promote and support their products and their company.

But after much consideration, I decided, so be it. I can no longer remain silent (stop chuckling, please). I will say my piece and let the chips fall where they may. I am not doing this to be liked or in an attempt to rally support from the masses. I am doing this out of incredible frustration and an ever-increasing level of annual aggravation, distress, and disillusionment as to where the future of this organization that is the NFBC is going. Just to clarify, first and foremost I participate in the NFBC for the love and passion I have for the game and the competition. Second, I participate each year for the love, friendship, and bond that I have created with so many of the great people I have come to know in this my eighth year of competition. And third I participate and pay my hard-earned money (and a lot of it) year in and year out for the sheer entertainment value and fun of it all, be it the gambling aspect for a chance at the big money, or what should be the fun and excitement of the live events or just even the drafts themselves in whatever form they take. I'm sure that I am not alone in saying that these are the main reasons that most of the core of us participate in the NFBC, in particular the "high rollers" or "whales" so-to-speak who represent the majority of revenue that the NFBC generates each year despite being the smallest demographic of the population, which is another of many parts of the overall issue.

Perhaps the biggest part of my frustration and aggravation comes from being an entrepreneur and independent business person myself, so I look at what is happening each year in terms of the trends, changes, etc. with the NFBC with a different perspective than most. However, I can tell you that the majority of us who operate in the same circles as I do, are as equally as frustrated, exasperated, and aggravated as I am when it comes to the distinct lack of willingness to innovate and change in order to improve on what is a good brand that could be extraordinary on behalf of its paying customers. The fact that we are in fact all customers is quite painfully and frequently forgotten in the way we are treated when we do speak out time and time again to demand these changes in service and product improvement. At the same time, true innovation and change would also be significantly more lucrative for the very powers that be who continually fail to listen to what is needed, wanted, and demanded by its clientele and the increasingly competitive nature of the fantasy sports market. Instead of exploring ways to tap into their greatest asset: their loyal, knowledgeable, creative, and business savvy clientele for their insights and guidance on how to help them better invest in and bring this organization and the competition to the next level of growth, expansion, and development it so desperately needs and that they are seemingly striving for, we are only tapped into for more of our money (and from the same core client base). This happens time and again each year and without a corresponding level of improved product and service. Vague attempts are made annually in the guise of threads which are created on these boards requesting us folks to weigh in on various topics of concern such as technical improvements, rule changes, new and improved contests and client services (such as direct deposit of winnings and personal client accounts that were most recently bandied about), etc. only to have virtually nothing of any significance improve or change and not without a fight when it finally does (case in point on what I personally had to go through to make the MTM Super a reality the way that it is a couple of years ago, and getting a second Diamond League to be created this past season). And I know that I am not the only one who has encountered this difficulty in getting new high stakes contests considered and brought into existence. Even the idea of increasing the prize amount for just one of the Diamonds last year as some may recall was turned into a huge fiasco by the powers that be that it did not have to become. In none of the previous cases should it have been that difficult or adversarial especially when all it did was add more revenue to the coffers of the NFBC while energizing the core clientele and stimulating new interest in them to pony up even more of their hard-earned money.

And when we are asked for our input, it is only quite obviously after a decision has already been made internally to do or not do something by the powers that be beforehand even without significant market research or clientele survey which shouldn't consist of getting the input of the same four of five most vocal veteran NFBC participants (sometimes myself included) who flood these threads with pages and pages of posts in support of their own particular hobby horse or pet peeve. The most recent case being this idea of a 'Cutline Draft' competition for fantasy baseball, which by the way, when did the idea of trying to convert or dumb down fantasy baseball so it becomes more fantasy football-like come in to play as a smart idea to drum up new business for the NFBC? I digress, but it's a simply ludicrous initiative especially when there are so many innovative and creative things that could and seriously need to be done to enhance all of the other contests there already are without further diluting the brand and the pool of money that exists to go around as it is. This along with what looks like will be the addition of a 12-Team Main Event that is sure to even further inhibit what is already stagnant Main Event growth and participation in what should be the premiere national event for fantasy baseball after 10 years of existence. But in reality, The Main Event has only little more than doubled in growth and participation since its inception, which given the size of the market and the advancements in technology on all levels, should be many more times this with the proper innovation, promotion, and marketing.

I definitely appreciate the need and desire for the NFBC to recruit new blood. I wholeheartedly support doing so whenever I can or I am afforded the forum to do so. But this constant urge to add more contests and more gimmicks in the hopes of increasing company revenue that will mainly be gleaned in doing so from the core clientele (which inevitably ends up happening with these initiatives), is just another in a long line of infuriating examples of good intentions, but with the wrong methodology and very little execution or follow through by the powers that be. Case in point again with the dialogue initiated about the Cutline Draft idea. The potential for something good is there perhaps, but it is mired in a convoluted morass of disjointed planning and double-speak which after pages and pages of conversation and debate, still comes down to a matter of "the programmers" being able to make something like this happen when they obviously haven't been able to do this to date with a laundry list of items dating back months and years which have been compiled on another thread on this forum for as long as I care to remember. Again, what is needed is innovation such as a new software platform alternative which is readily available to be had instead of trying to constantly cram the proverbial square peg into the round hole of an inferior product. As I said, what is needed is not need gimmicks which are mainly targeted to a core base of already paying clientele that essentially remains static from year to year other than the increase of the low dollar draft champion leagues which many of the core participate in multiple times over for larger dollar league preparation anyway. There are even a couple among us who draft the equivalent of two or three full leagues of teams of these types of drafts alone, and this is considered a good thing for business and growth when it should not.

In addition, I would be remiss if I did not speak to the unfortunate top down attrition which is beginning to occur as the "whales" or "high-rollers"are becoming increasingly more disenchanted each year by the NFBC's distinct lack of care, attention, and development which caters to this incredibly vital base of competitors whose annual influx of entrance fees proportionately contribute a huge percentage to the company's revenue. This does not make those of us in this small minority necessarily anymore special than any other NFBC competitor, but it should definitely count big time to the powers that be from a business perspective to want to keep this very small core of loyal contributors returning each year as very happy and satisfied customers. But unfortunately it does not as our pleas for innovation and change in the realm of the high dollar competitions, the corresponding draft events and festivities surrounding and supporting them, rules and prize structure/payouts, etc. simply fall on deaf ears for the most part. And worse yet, should any of us dare leave to participate in other competitions or games outside of the NFBC, the powers that be confront these competitors with indignation and scorn. They should in fact be recognizing the situation as a problem with their own product and service. It should be viewed as a potential wake-up call that their own lack of responsibility for not innovating and improving is risking losing more of the "whales', while and not attracting more of these types of players each year. It should not take a math or economics major to figure out the financial benefit to the NFBC of adding a new $10,000 Diamond competitor to the fold while retaining its core for example, as opposed to bringing in several new draft champions players. Common sense however as they say, is often neither.

I could go on here in this post for pages more, but this has already gotten longer than I intended it to be. These are my sentiments, observations, and realities as they pertain to the NFBC. Agree or disagree with them as you wish, which I am sure that the powers that be who I have referenced quite intentionally multiple times throughout this post will most certainly vehemently take the position of the latter. But hopefully not when I do in fact receive the phone call that I have been waiting for for the last two weeks. I wrote this because I want to desperately see something truly change. Perhaps this post will be the impetus for this dialogue to begin, and not just on these boards which will not serve to solve these problems and bring the true change and innovation that is needed. I love this game and the people that I compete against playing it, but I will no longer continue to blindly support it with the same boundless enthusiasm, time, energy, and even more of my money than I already do until I feel good again about doing so. Maybe this doesn't matter to anyone other than me. Maybe it does. We shall see.

Maybe I just wasted parts of three days of my time writing this, but I have always dictated my life and my business with these words of wisdom that have been accredited to the great John Wooden and Earl Weaver as well:

"It's what you learn after you know it all that counts." Enough said. Maybe someone got the message.

-MTM

Hey Mikey, I've missed you. I don't know what to say about your open letter, but you were more interesting when you talked about Angelina's tits and Bea's nude picture. But that's just me.

Welcome back to the boards, Mike.

My initial impression is this ... I think there is validity to your frustration, but overall I'm struck that you may be minimizing the constraints under which the NFBC functions - whether that be corporate structure, financial, or otherwise. Of course, I recognize that this could be 100% intentional on your part, and mainly intended for a level above our personal contact with G/T. That said, I believe G/T do listen to their customers more than anyone in the industry, or most industries for that matter. Maybe too much at times, and I do not always agree with their decisions. I have found that alternate views are taken 100% constructively at times, and at other times defensively, but these guys are personally invested in the decisions they make and genuinely want to make the game better so that shouldn't be a surprise. What Greg proposed a few years ago, a sort of round-table discussion of players for input ... I would love to see that resurface when it comes to hammering through ideas. Message board debates are quite limited and can be frustrating, and I'm afraid that player input is not thoroughly vetted and can end up being off-the-cuff, lowest-common denominator stuff.

On the whole, I think what G/T have created is a better place than anyone else has done for us to compete and interact. No doubt, it could be even better but I like that they are open to improvement, even if it is slow in coming at times. I believe some things are executed very well, while I think we all know that IT in particular has been a frequent limitation.

My main concern with your entire post is along the lines of "be careful what you wish for". For my own long-term participation, payout structure is really important (see my post of a few weeks ago on winning in the NFBC). As such, I would not want to see "innovation" if it involves ramping the cost structure to improve the experience with new bells and whistles if the ultimate cost is a weaker prize structure. If, however, the investment leads to proportionate revenue increases and a larger reach for the NFBC, I'm all for it.

MTM you said a lot (in fact too much for me to do more than SKIM it) but I'm not quite sure exactly what you want to see that is different than what we have. Higher payouts for the highest stakes leagues?

KJ Duke wrote:Welcome back to the boards, Mike.

My initial impression is this ... I think there is validity to your frustration, but overall I'm struck that you may be minimizing the constraints under which the NFBC functions - whether that be corporate structure, financial, or otherwise. Of course, I recognize that this could be 100% intentional on your part, and mainly intended for a level above our personal contact with G/T. That said, I believe G/T do listen to their customers more than anyone in the industry, or most industries for that matter. Maybe too much at times, and I do not always agree with their decisions. I have found that alternate views are taken 100% constructively at times, and at other times defensively, but these guys are personally invested in the decisions they make and genuinely want to make the game better so that shouldn't be a surprise. What Greg proposed a few years ago, a sort of round-table discussion of players for input ... I would love to see that resurface when it comes to hammering through ideas. Message board debates are quite limited and can be frustrating, and I'm afraid that player input is not thoroughly vetted and can end up being off-the-cuff, lowest-common denominator stuff.

On the whole, I think what G/T have created is a better place than anyone else has done for us to compete and interact. No doubt, it could be even better but I like that they are open to improvement, even if it is slow in coming at times. I believe some things are executed very well, while I think we all know that IT in particular has been a frequent limitation.

My main concern with your entire post is along the lines of "be careful what you wish for". For my own long-term participation, payout structure is really important (see my post of a few weeks ago on winning in the NFBC). As such, I would not want to see "innovation" if it involves ramping the cost structure to improve the experience with new bells and whistles if the ultimate cost is a weaker prize structure. If, however, the investment leads to proportionate revenue increases and a larger reach for the NFBC, I'm all for it.

Welcome back Mike.

Basically, I echo KJ's post. It's important to remember the NFBC is a "for profit" company. As such, they need growing revenue streams (like any for profit business does) or else the NFBC does not exist. Even though I don't see myself playing in "cutlines", if the Yahoo and ESPN players are primarily playing in 10 team leagues AND given the success of the NFFC cutline leagues, it would be a bad, bad business decision NOT to explore adding that possibility to the NFBC.

Duke put it perfectly..."On the whole, I think what Greg and Tom have created is a better place than anyone else has done for us to compete and interact. "

I respect any man's opinion, but I have to kindly disagree with the majority of the views here. In my opinion, there are a few areas being left out and some of those have been discussed here already.

Let's face it, $1500 is ALOT of money for most people to play in one contest. When I speak with other fantasy players, ALL of them love fantasy sports, but play $100-$200 home league or CBS SPORTLINE type contests. Especially in baseball. I don't even mention the amount that I spend. I play in several live main events each year with a few DC's and OC's mixed in which to me is a good bit of money between events and travel. As much as I love this game, I can't even consider a Diamond league. The available player pool for high stakes fantasy "baseball" is far more limited than football. Throw in a weak economy over the last five years and there will be growing pains.

The ever increasing daily game has forced game operators to change their thinking. Players are not leaving the NFBC because of the rules or because they are not being heard, they are leaving because they prefer the quick action and no season-long commitment. Payouts are quick and you don't have to plunk down thousands up front. This is a big challenge for the NFBC and other game operators to protect their customer base while adding new players.

Investors. This is a business and they want to see increased YOY gross profit. A short while ago, we had no platform for ANY contest. It's important for the G/T to consider new ideas as ways to bring in extra revenues YOY. The CUTLINE in football was a huge success in numbers. I don't know how many new customers were brought in, but just about every draft sold out. Football is different than baseball and I'm not sure that baseball will have the same success, but there is a need to do something to get new folks in and get their feet wet with our format. With that said, I think that Greg has been extremely customer focused about the process in asking for assistance.

Customer Service. The NFBC provides the best customer service, hands down. They always listen, but have a difficult job in pleasing everyone. They listened when they created the DC and it is an enormous success. Rule changes will never go over with everyone. While many were upset with the pitching change rule, others like myself were fine with the move. Truth is, you can't please everyone all of the time. The boards offer us the opportunity to all make our points and talk it out, which is important for our growth.

Technical Issues. I think that improvements can be made with our software, but I also think that improvements are being made regularly to where I'm optimistic that it will be where we all want it at some point. We should have a premiere platform that is much better than any of the "free" sites. If G/T continues to push IT with ideas, I'm sure we'll get there.

Overall, I'm just glad to be able to have a platform to play this game. It's a business. We need to respect that and understand that without the NFBC, there would be a major hole in our industry for baseball. There will be pro's and con's always. It took alot of guts for Mike to throw this out there. He's a veteran of our game and someone that I look forward to meeting sometime. We need to continue working together to protect our game and be able to see each other every year. We have ALOT of smart and innovative people here. It will all work out. I look forward to seeing everyone in Vegas next year.

That's the beauty of our Message Boards: Opinions are always welcome.

We appreciate the comments Mike and honestly we always know you have the best interests of the NFBC in mind. However, rather than personal shots at me and Tom for not being innovative enough in our ideas why not put a much simpler post with bullet point ideas down for all to see. Let's see some of these great innovative ideas that you think will grow the NFBC that we haven't thought of yet. Post 10 of them, 5 of them, 1 of them and without a doubt we'll consider.

To think that we're purposely trying to be stagnant or not expound on good ideas to grow our contest is insane. Heck, some of the best ideas have come from our customers and led to the Draft Champions National Championship, the NFBC Auction Championship, the NFBC Ultimate League and hopefully the Cutline Championship. And it's okay to even ridicule a new idea like the Cutline, which seems innovative, but if we can bring in new customers through it why would anyone object here even if they don't play in it?

Thanks for taking the time to make your heart-felt post. If as many people are this disappointed in the NFBC as you say then we have more troubles here than I thought. In the last year we've added Live Overall Standings for all of the national contests, created our own show on SiriusXM Fantasy Sports Radio, paid prizes faster than ever before and added direct deposits and soon Player Accounts, added pulldowns for every aspect of your teams like Live Scoring, Set Lineup, FAAB, etc., and we're still working on more improvements. But this definitely isn't a finished product. Help us finish it with set ideas in bullet points and yes we'll not only consider those ideas but work with you to perfect them. Let's do it and turn your frustration into production. Who needs a message board debate when it's time to get busy.

Greg has neither the time nor the inclination to explain himself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very Roto that he provides, and then questions the manner in which he provides it. He would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a Forecaster, and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to.

Mouth is a smart guy and an astute business man. MTM has a vision (maybe visions too ) of what he'd like the NFBC to be and probably has good ideas how to get it there. Whether they are feasible or not - not my business. I'm just a player and have been involved in the NFBC/NFFC from the get-go. For 10 years I couldn't be happier with the product the NFBC/NFFC has put out and probably haven't thanked Greg and Tom enough for all their hard work and professionalism.

THANKS GUYS !

If Mike was a smart businessman, he'd donate less of his money to the rest of the NFBC

As to the rest of the stuff, I get the frustrations (mostly on the tech side), but I really just want a place that give me the opportunity to play, keeps the stats, and either takes my money or gives me other people's money if I win.

Quite simply this is Mikey being Mikey. A lot of passion but misdirected. Welcome back to the boards MtM.

With that said, this is the only place to be to play high stakes fantasy sports. We all gripe from time to time and the NFBC responds in a timely manner and continues to improve upon the best fantasy sports product around.

Great to have you back, Mike.
Mikey ain't afraid of nothing and has a heart of gold.

I must admit that when the Cutline idea was brought up, I had the same eye roll as a baseball or football fan does when it is announced that two teams will play in Australia or England.
And it is much the same thing, companies or corporations want newer customers. In getting these newer customers, they have to bend a little, like bringing our game to foreign countries or offering 10 team leagues, though we are used to 15 team leagues.
It's the way of the world now.

I don't intend on playing Cutline, but that means little really. I like the traditional game and have never even played a daily game. Others also won't play Cutline for their own reasons and that's ok too. Not every game fits what we are looking for in fantasy baseball.
At the same time, there are thousands that will play Cutline. They'll play it because there is less to do with a team, which seems to be a trend in fantasy sports. Folks want to put the time in our hobby, but at the same time, they don't want to put time in our hobby.

Any time a new game in the NFBC has been introduced, it is met with some resistance. There are still some players who feel we should only have one Main Event, all live, with no internet entries.
We naturally do not like change. But, without change we wouldn't have twice a week lineups or 50 round slow drafts or 12 team Championships in the NFBC.
The NFBC has to evolve.
New games have to be played. I don't have to play them and others in the NFBC don't have to play them.
But some will.
And probably, a lot of new players from ESPN and CBS or especially Yahoo Kids will be drawn to the lotto effect that the Cutline offers.

10 years ago when we saw that little advertisement about a fantasy high stakes challenge, we took the plunge.
A leap of faith.
We were rewarded.
If just holding onto the Main Event only through these 10 years, the NFBC would most likely be gone.
Expansion is a necessity.
Other companies have tried to rival the Main Event by offering more money in a contest.
Even with less participants.
They folded and folks were not paid.
These companies were short sighted. They took a good idea and promised more than they can deliver.
Instead of promises, the NFBC is delivering good ideas.
The NFBC is trying to find a niche for everyone.
From the Yahoo Kid to a two-time Main Event Champion.
It is the best way to go about it.

So what you are saying is because you throw more money in that your voice should dictate votes or have more sway factor?

Isn't this what has made a once great democracy a train wreck - by letting the big companies buy congress. How has that worked out???

As an entreprenaur you should know that Business is about making money?? Just because it does not align with your viewpoint does not mean it is wrong.

And when trying to make a point, please don't repeat the same crap for the first 3 paragraphs... you lose peoples interest. Get to the point a little quicker.

BOOOOO on your rant

Scared $ Dont Make $ wrote:So what you are saying is because you throw more money in that your voice should dictate votes or have more sway factor?

Yes? That's pretty much how every business in the world operates. The customers that spend the most money get the most attention and business plans are designed around ensuring that the largest customers remain satisfied. There are no civil rights at issue here so comparing it to democratic ideals is apples/oranges.

That doesn't mean that everyone isn't valued, but it would be delusional and childish to think that the opinions of someone who spends $350 here is as important to the business as someone who spends $30,000. It isn't and it shouldn't be (although Tom and Greg will say it is because they are good at their jobs).

If done correctly, e.g. marketing NFBC as an aspirational/trusted/higher end brand, the 'whale' league should love the potential the cutline and smaller $ leagues present. Even if one cutline, non-NFBC player converts to a higher end league that's a win for these 'pros'.

Roger Dorn wrote:If done correctly, e.g. marketing NFBC as an aspirational/trusted/higher end brand, the 'whale' league should love the potential the cutline and smaller $ leagues present. Even if one cutline, non-NFBC player converts to a higher end league that's a win for these 'pros'.

Yep. I don't care either way. The more people that play, the healthier the NFBC is, the happier I am. I want to keep doing this till I'm old and useless as opposed to my current status of getting-old and semi-useless

I don't begrudge Mikey his rant. People, certainly customers, are entitled to express their frustration when unhappy. As much as I love and enjoy this contest, I have on occasion had moments of frustration during my years here and have at times felt the need to express that frustration on these boards or privately through email exchanges with Greg and/or Tom. Many have. I still believe things can be improved, certainly on the technical end.

However, I do believe some perspective is required here. I think back to 2011, a year that saw the demise of two other once very strong contest providers.

That was the year that the WCOFF, the creator of live high stakes contests and the biggest at the time, went under taking with it about $70,000.00 of my winnings, winnings I will never see. I compare the feeling I had then to the feeling I had two days ago when my wife called me to let me know that my check from the NFBC had already arrived, less than a month after the season had ended.

That was also the year that Fanball went under. We all remember Fanball, don't we? Well, we should also remember that there was a brief period there when the closing of Fanball's doors put the future of the NFBC itself in doubt. If Greg had asked us then if we would have supported his keeping the NFBC going with stats done on pen and paper and live scoring through a calculator, many of us may have happily complied. Luckily STATS came aboard and we didn't have to go there. Luckily also, we still have this contest to complain about. What would we accept now to get it back if it hadn't survived.

No contest is perfect, not the NFBC, not any. However I think we should look at the big picture. These contests do not work on huge margins. The NFBC, while imperfect, is still a great contest. One that provides a fun live draft experience, great customer service, challenging contests and competition, one of the best message boards around, and a pool of competitors who are not only great players but great people as well. And most of all, the NFBC provides a contest we can trust.

Man I wish the NFBC could make their FAAB a little (or a lot ) more user friendly, I wish their live scoring was a little less tempermental, I wish their accounting had a few more modern features. Still though and most importantly, I sure am glad the NFBC is around for me to wish for these improvements.

Well said. Actually getting your money is a pretty underrated feature.

Potter wrote:Greg has neither the time nor the inclination to explain himself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very Roto that he provides, and then questions the manner in which he provides it. He would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a Forecaster, and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to.

----------------------------------------------------
That is some funny stuff! Just watched that part of the movie again last weekend, and it never gets old.

NFBC=High stakes against the top fantasy BB players anywhere. CBS, ESPN and all the other Fantasy leagues and players out there, are the minor leagues of Fantasy baseball. The NFBC= challenge and a trust and confidence knowing you will get paid. NFBC products and games are tough and not for players who do not do their homework and understand far more about baseball, than just a few stats. Could there be improvements in the NFBC, sure... more often than not the changes and improvements come slow too, but almost all make the NFBC better as time goes on.
Mike does however opine some important frustrations by NFBC players, both new and veteran players. The boards here turn into gripe sessions most of the time. Most opinions do not truly express targeted and focused improvements; they become more of a Bit.h session and ranting against other posters. The MSG boards though are the only avenue to express opinions. Personally I would like to see polls on important changes to gauge the quality of ideas and suggestions. Simple yes or no votes... To expect Greg and Tom to get a feel to how people feel about new ideas and changes by reading these boards is unrealistic, opinions and ideas are all over the map. Poll us, simple yes or no will do. If an idea has 65-75 or more %support it should be seriously considered. Same if it has 25% support.
The NFBC being high stakes, with high buyins and investments has challenges that are now or have been starting to show themselves, mainly a continuing weakening economy. For anyone to think things are getting better out there, you would have to be naive. Disposable income is declining for almost everyone and there is no end in sight. Daily games continue to rise in popularity, and because Fantasy players can get immediate gratification; however they are generally small stakes and the churn rate in players in Daily is huge. Losing sucks and too many Daily players experiance losing rather quickly and quit.
The NFBC does need to improve it’s under the hood applications, Fantasy tools and software. Live scoring stinks, so it eliminates for most, at least me, that instant gratification. The research tools are so-so. I liken the NFBC scoring to the Obamacre web rollout, it does not work well.
The biggest challenges the NFBC faces IMO is the economy, and how to continue to attract new players and balance keeping its core veteran players.
All that being said, the NFBS is best place to High stakes, bar none. It also offers something no other game does, Friendships, camaraderie and face to face experiences in meeting new friends and players. That alone makes it the premier game in town for most of us.
Mikes post was well articulated and makes valid points and riases valid concerns and will make anyone who reads it think about what the NFBC is and what it can become.

Gross Revenue for NFBC Diamond Leagues: $300K.
Net revenue, after prize payouts: $20K

In its first year, with very little effort;
NFFC Cutline, gross revenue $275K
Net revenue; nearly $100K

Almost five times as much income as Diamond. More than half as much income as the Main Event.

Just saying. Give Greg, Tom and Stats a break. Let them make their money on the little folk with Cutline, pay their overhead, and then treat the guys they love. I understand Tom will be buying lap dances for MTM next year.

Bob Enzyte wrote:Hey Mikey, I've missed you. I don't know what to say about your open letter, but you were more interesting when you talked about Angelina's tits and Bea's nude picture. But that's just me.

Okay, so let's take these all one at a time starting off with our resident two-time, national champ. I will tell all of you that are following this thread, that I will not turn this into some sort of pissing match here on this public forum where nothing will be resolved and only further debated by the same minute sample of the NFBC population. I will hopefully be speaking to Greg directly at some point soon. That said, here goes:

Lindy, baseball season isn't for a few more months, so go back to bed and I'll wake you in the spring.



In this photo: Lindy awakes from his winter hibernation

KJ Duke wrote:Welcome back to the boards, Mike.

My initial impression is this ... I think there is validity to your frustration, but overall I'm struck that you may be minimizing the constraints under which the NFBC functions - whether that be corporate structure, financial, or otherwise. Of course, I recognize that this could be 100% intentional on your part, and mainly intended for a level above our personal contact with G/T. That said, I believe G/T do listen to their customers more than anyone in the industry, or most industries for that matter. Maybe too much at times, and I do not always agree with their decisions. I have found that alternate views are taken 100% constructively at times, and at other times defensively, but these guys are personally invested in the decisions they make and genuinely want to make the game better so that shouldn't be a surprise. What Greg proposed a few years ago, a sort of round-table discussion of players for input ... I would love to see that resurface when it comes to hammering through ideas. Message board debates are quite limited and can be frustrating, and I'm afraid that player input is not thoroughly vetted and can end up being off-the-cuff, lowest-common denominator stuff.

On the whole, I think what G/T have created is a better place than anyone else has done for us to compete and interact. No doubt, it could be even better but I like that they are open to improvement, even if it is slow in coming at times. I believe some things are executed very well, while I think we all know that IT in particular has been a frequent limitation.

My main concern with your entire post is along the lines of "be careful what you wish for". For my own long-term participation, payout structure is really important (see my post of a few weeks ago on winning in the NFBC). As such, I would not want to see "innovation" if it involves ramping the cost structure to improve the experience with new bells and whistles if the ultimate cost is a weaker prize structure. If, however, the investment leads to proportionate revenue increases and a larger reach for the NFBC, I'm all for it.

KJ, just a quick question before I respond. Just exactly how far is your head up Greg's ass?! You posted minutes after I posted this piece at like two in the morning. Do you have some sort of hotline like an NFBC Bat-phone that rings at your house as soon as anything is posted taking Greg to task that he calls you on to get you to post something in his defense?



"What's that sir? MTM posted something on the boards again? Yes, Commissioner Ambrosius, I'll get right on it!"

No one is saying that Greg and Tom haven't done a great job providing us this platform and forum to play this game. I think I made that clear in my post that I am as appreciative as the rest of us for this. But as you said, no one can speak to their constraints, financial or otherwise, in promoting and growing the NFBC. It's the self-imposed limitations which are based in simply in a lack of (or limited) knowledge, creativity, and innovation in the areas of public relations, sales, and marketing (to name a few) on their part that is frustrating, and is also limiting the potential the NFBC has and jeopardizing its future viability. Like you said, let's get those round table forums going that were supposed to happen but never did, and let those of us who excel in the areas that they do not possibly contribute our input and ideas that actually will be implemented to a fruitful and beneficial result on the NFBC's behalf. All successful companies do this including all of their competitors in the current fantasy sports gaming market. There are pros and cons to operating the NFBC as a mom and pop organization. Let's strengthen the pros and remedy the cons. The solutions are not ramping up the price structure, further cannibalizing the base clientele for more of their money, or necessarily adding new contests among other ideas that have been thrown out on these boards. Hopefully Greg and Tom will take this all to heart and have a sit down to begin the dialogue if all of this is as important enough to them as it is to me.

TOXIC ASSETS wrote:MTM you said a lot (in fact too much for me to do more than SKIM it) but I'm not quite sure exactly what you want to see that is different than what we have. Higher payouts for the highest stakes leagues?

Please go back and read in detail what I would like to see if you have not done so already. Higher payouts and higher stakes leagues are not the answer, but could be one of the many areas of improvement which would help.

Gekko wrote:

KJ Duke wrote:Welcome back to the boards, Mike.

My initial impression is this ... I think there is validity to your frustration, but overall I'm struck that you may be minimizing the constraints under which the NFBC functions - whether that be corporate structure, financial, or otherwise. Of course, I recognize that this could be 100% intentional on your part, and mainly intended for a level above our personal contact with G/T. That said, I believe G/T do listen to their customers more than anyone in the industry, or most industries for that matter. Maybe too much at times, and I do not always agree with their decisions. I have found that alternate views are taken 100% constructively at times, and at other times defensively, but these guys are personally invested in the decisions they make and genuinely want to make the game better so that shouldn't be a surprise. What Greg proposed a few years ago, a sort of round-table discussion of players for input ... I would love to see that resurface when it comes to hammering through ideas. Message board debates are quite limited and can be frustrating, and I'm afraid that player input is not thoroughly vetted and can end up being off-the-cuff, lowest-common denominator stuff.

On the whole, I think what G/T have created is a better place than anyone else has done for us to compete and interact. No doubt, it could be even better but I like that they are open to improvement, even if it is slow in coming at times. I believe some things are executed very well, while I think we all know that IT in particular has been a frequent limitation.

My main concern with your entire post is along the lines of "be careful what you wish for". For my own long-term participation, payout structure is really important (see my post of a few weeks ago on winning in the NFBC). As such, I would not want to see "innovation" if it involves ramping the cost structure to improve the experience with new bells and whistles if the ultimate cost is a weaker prize structure. If, however, the investment leads to proportionate revenue increases and a larger reach for the NFBC, I'm all for it.

Welcome back Mike.

Basically, I echo KJ's post. It's important to remember the NFBC is a "for profit" company. As such, they need growing revenue streams (like any for profit business does) or else the NFBC does not exist. Even though I don't see myself playing in "cutlines", if the Yahoo and ESPN players are primarily playing in 10 team leagues AND given the success of the NFFC cutline leagues, it would be a bad, bad business decision NOT to explore adding that possibility to the NFBC.

Duke put it perfectly..."On the whole, I think what Greg and Tom have created is a better place than anyone else has done for us to compete and interact. "

Mark,
Nothing would make me happier to see the NFBC double in player participation and revenue. But that's not going to happen unless things change from the top down. I am well aware that the NFBC is not a charitable organization. Growing revenue streams is what I am talking about, but that's the what to do. What's lacking are the creative and effective ways in how to do it.